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*** I think it's more likely that Impa opened the doors for Zelda (even though from her slender figure and thin limbs, she doesn't look very strong in terms of raw strength). Alternatively, Zelda and Impa may have used levers and/or their combined strength. Or maybe the door's mechanisms are designed to open automatically for Hylia.
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*** I think it's more likely that Impa opened the doors for Zelda (even though (granted, from her slender figure and thin limbs, she doesn't look very strong in terms of raw strength). Alternatively, Zelda and Impa may have used levers and/or their combined strength. Or maybe the door's mechanisms are designed to open automatically for Hylia.
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*** Yeah, the very first section in A Link to the Past is about Link proving himself in all three virtues by collecting the Pendants, and the same game shows that Link he's able to touch and wish upon the Triforce without it splitting. As for the Kokiri Tunic setting the precedent for Link's green garb, The Minish Cap predating Ocarina already screwed that up, so why blame this game for that? It sounds to me like the people complaining about this "lore ruining" are the ones who aren't that familiar with Zelda lore.
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*** Yeah, the very first section in A Link to the Past is about Link proving himself in all three virtues by collecting the Pendants, and the same game shows that Link he's able to touch and wish upon the Triforce without it splitting. As for the Kokiri Tunic setting the precedent for Link's green garb, The Minish Cap predating Ocarina already screwed that up, so why blame this game for that? And Zelda II had heavily implied that Link and Zelda ended up together at the end of the game. It sounds to me like the people complaining about this "lore ruining" defilement" are the ones who aren't that familiar with Zelda lore.
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** Couldn't Impa have opened the doors for Zelda? Although from her slender figure and limbs, she doesn't look very strong in terms of raw strength. Alternatively, Zelda and Impa may have used levers and/or their combined strength. Or maybe the door's mechanisms are designed to open automatically for Hylia.
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*** Yeah, the very first section in A Link to the Past is about Link proving himself in all three virtues by collecting the Pendants, and the same game shows that Link he's able to touch and wish upon the Triforce without it splitting. As for the Kokiri Tunic setting the precedent for Link's green garb, The Minish Cap predating Ocarina already screwed that up, so why blame this game for that? It sounds to me like the people complaining about this "lore ruining" are the ones who aren't that familiar with Zelda lore.
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** Couldn't Impa have opened the doors for Zelda? Although from her slender figure and limbs, she doesn't look very strong in terms of raw strength. Alternatively, Zelda and Impa may have used levers and/or their combined strength. Or maybe the door's mechanisms are designed to open automatically for Hylia.
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** Also, how was Link supposed to know that the curse would cause collateral damage come the future? Demise worded it so vaguely that you could take it out of the game and lose absolutely nothing anyway.
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** Jossed. If Demise were a god, he wouldn't be pursuing the Triforce to make a wish, because he would know full-well being a deity, it can't grant his wishes.
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*** She still could've just chosen Link to undergo trials that would make his heart more balanced, without having to reincarnate herself. (Don't tell me he needed ''motivation'' in order to do it - other Links have undergone much greater challenges with less personal motivation.)
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*** She still could've just chosen Link to undergo trials that would make his heart more balanced, without having to reincarnate herself. (Don't tell me he needed ''motivation'' in order to do it - other Links have undergone much greater challenges with less personal motivation.)
) Or, as stated above, just surrender her divinity, become a mortal without reincarnating first (she's a god - there's no reason why she wouldn't be able to do this), and then undergo the trials to balance her own heart, and then use the Triforce to destroy Demise.
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**** She still could've just chosen Link to undergo trials that would make his heart more balanced, without having to reincarnate herself. (Don't tell me he needed ''motivation'' in order to do it - other Links have undergone much greater challenges with less personal motivation.)
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** Timeshift stones are quite simple. They are a small localized PortalToThePast, affecting everything but Link. The reason they don't affect Link...well he's the Chosen Hero. So...either [[AWizardDidIt the goddess did it, or the Goddess Sword/Master Sword shields him from the effect]].
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** Timeshift stones are quite simple. They are a small localized PortalToThePast, affecting everything but Link. The reason they don't affect Link...well he's the Chosen Hero. So...either [[AWizardDidIt the goddess did it, it]], or the Goddess Sword/Master Sword shields him from the effect]].
effect. As for Lanayru...you use a timeshift stone to get a seed for a tree that grows a magic fruit. You plant it in the past (by going through the Gate of Time). Then you use the timeshift stone again to give Lanayru the fruit in the past. He is healed, which means he doesn't die there, which means his skeleton is now gone (he just went somewhere else instead of dying, he turns up alive later in the game).
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** Timeshift stones are quite simple. They are a small localized PortalToThePast, affecting everything but Link. The reason they don't affect Link...well he's the ChosenHero. So...[[AWizardDidIt the Goddess did it]].
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** Timeshift stones are quite simple. They are a small localized PortalToThePast, affecting everything but Link. The reason they don't affect Link...well he's the ChosenHero.Chosen Hero. So...either [[AWizardDidIt the goddess did it, or the Goddess did it]].Sword/Master Sword shields him from the effect]].
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** Timeshift stones are quite simple. They are a small localized PortalToThePast, affecting everything but Link. The reason they don't affect Link...well he's the ChosenHero. So...[[AWizardDidIt the Goddess did it]].
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** It's entirely possible that the size of Skyloft as seen during gameplay is just that - GameplayAndStorySegregation. It's a lot harder to swallow in 3D games, but it ''is'' a very common convention in adventure video games for cities and towns to appear much smaller than they should realistically be in-universe. Also: if somebody abducts your child, are they likely to admit it to your face just because you ask? If Kukiel's mom thinks Kukiel was kidnapped, she probably thinks somebody in town is ''lying'' about not knowing her whereabouts.
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** When you activate a Timeshift Stone, it regresses everything in the radius to its past state, thousands of years undone in seconds. When deactivating it, everything basically re-ages at hyperspeed to its present state, thousands of years passing in seconds. Most beings stay in place between the past and present times because they can't process the accompanying perceptions fast enough to respond to them. But as a divine being, perhaps Lanayru's perceptions are magically augmented to the point that he's able to remain active in the artificially sped-up time, so even though the player just sees him vanish, he actually just flew away in the (a few seconds for mortals, for himself veritable years) time.
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** As well as deal with criminals and trouble-doers and the like. In fact, it's actually a bit surprising that even a small community like Skyloft doesn't seem to have any prison or jail set up.
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** Well there are monsters roaming around at night. And just because they're called knights doesn't mean their primary purpose is to fight other armies - they could exist to keep the citizens safe by making sure no one falls off or goes flying when they're not supposed to or that sort of thing.
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** The hat is part of Link's iconic green suit, so Nintendo felt that doing away with it would be going too far. Like making a Mario game without his red cap. Of course, they changed their minds for the next console Zelda...
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[[folder:Skyloft's knights]]
* Why does Skyloft train its own knight army? As far as its inhabitants know, it's the only kingdom in the world! What do they need an army for?
[[/folder]]
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** Perhaps by using the last remnants of the energy from a Skyward Strike done previously to trigger specific muscle movements in Link through nerve endings(something similar to when Iron Man caught those people falling in Iron Man 3).
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** If considering the two sword spirits alongside Link for the balance of the Triforce, Ghirahim is very much leaning towards power. His insanity leaves him unfearful, yes, but not in the traditional sense of courage, and wisdom would dictate not fighting the "Sky Child" as long as he does, such that Zelda escapes. Fi, on the other hand, [[StealthPun or lack thereof]], doesn't seem to be physical, and thusly has no power. She does have wisdom, as she helps Link whether the player likes it or not, but courage can't be programmed. Link's quest involves saving Zelda, which takes courage. He solves puzzles like the Silent Realms and gains power through items. Taking all this into account, it seems any sword spirit to wield the Triforce would need to be as balanced as Link, with a focus on courage.
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** He requires Gratitude Crystals to change back, and he has the Cursed Medal. Perhaps he was a greedy citizen of Skyloft who hoarded Rupees, and a combination of greed and the medal eventually changed him into a demon, and thus Gratitude Crystals are the opposite of greed.
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** From a development standpoint, they probably didn't think there was a reason to go down to the surface at night, and if there ''was'' a night mode, it would be worse than normal, since monsters come out at night on Skyloft. From a gameplay standpoint, you're not a knight yet, and therefore the knights don't want you getting hurt. That is their ''job''. The Spiral Charge would be another example of something you're not supposed to learn until you're a senior year knight student.
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** Because you need the goddesses' blessings(three flames and a Zelda) to Master the Sword. Also, Hylia created it, so technically, it's hers.
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** Someone probably would have noticed and commented on it if it could penetrate the cloud layer. Considering that the Timeshift Stones can allow a boat to operate, they probably have a spherical range of operation that is relatively small, excluding when they're on the water. Given that Lanayru used to be an ocean, it's likely Timeshift Stones work better there because of natural reactions to water.
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** The dragons are supposed to watch over their regions, the knights probably don't have sailcloths to come down safely given Groose's landing, and given that Link > Ghirahim > Water Dragon, the dragons probably aren't very useful against Demise anyway, since Demise uses Ghirahim as a ''sword''. And speaking of swords, the knights don't have a Master Sword of Evil's Bane. They can only do so much.
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** Ship masts are replaced when broken. It's possible they're ''from'' the ship, but not the latest. It's similar to when Machi the Kikwi, having come into contact with Zelda, had a Zelda signature.
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*** The knights catch Link whenever he falls, day or night. If she fell, the knights would catch her.
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** Weight, perhaps. The main point of Scrapper in-game was weight, not size, IIRC. Metal and crystal or glass, respectively, are heavier than a fruit. What isn't explained by this, however, is the wheel for Dodoh. If he can keep it on his back, he probably wore it there from Skyloft, so why Link can't do something similar is odd. Perhaps it can't be boosted from the surface by a bird statue, and if Scrapper had to take it into the air anyway, it's simpler to just have him carry it.
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** Most of the dungeons in the game are either completely indoors or have a gap accessible from the sky that's too narrow to safely jump through. The sandship can move because it's a ship, who knows if someone or something decided to move it? The fire sanctuary has a large enough area for Link to safely land on without hitting the temple itself.
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[[folder: Game-breaking bug 2]]
* Stemming from what's posted a folder or two above, how does that bug end up glitching the game anyway? From what I've heard, the way it works is that if you talk to the Goron archaeologist twice after learning Lanayru's part, the game gets glitched up and erroneously checks off the event flags saying that you've learned Faron's and Eldin's parts, as well. If the game is under the misconception that you have all the parts you need, though...why would you actually ''need'' to complete the trials? Why wouldn't the game let you return to Levias to learn the final part, if that's logically where you would be heading next?
* Stemming from what's posted a folder or two above, how does that bug end up glitching the game anyway? From what I've heard, the way it works is that if you talk to the Goron archaeologist twice after learning Lanayru's part, the game gets glitched up and erroneously checks off the event flags saying that you've learned Faron's and Eldin's parts, as well. If the game is under the misconception that you have all the parts you need, though...why would you actually ''need'' to complete the trials? Why wouldn't the game let you return to Levias to learn the final part, if that's logically where you would be heading next?
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[[folder: Game-breaking bug 2]]
Fire Sanctuary]]
*Stemming from what's posted a folder or two above, how does that bug end up glitching Why is the Fire Sanctuary the only dungeon in the game anyway? From what I've heard, the way it works is that if you talk to the Goron archaeologist twice after learning Lanayru's part, the game gets glitched up and erroneously checks off the event flags saying that you've learned Faron's and Eldin's parts, as well. If the game is under the misconception that you have all can freely descend into from the parts you need, though...why would you actually ''need'' to complete sky? The sanctuary doesn't seem much different from a number of other dungeons - I don't really see the trials? Why wouldn't the game let you return to Levias to learn the final part, if that's logically where you would be heading next?point of it.
*
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[[folder: Hylia's reincarnation and the "gears of fate"]]
* The thing that bothers me the most about the game's big reveal about [[spoiler: Zelda being Hylia reborn]] is that she specifically tells Link that it was ''intentional''. She purposefully deemed that she would be reborn as the girl who would grow up to be Link's love interest, in order to be thrown into danger so that he would be motivated to save her, and in doing so defeat Demise - in effect, their entire relationship was prefabricated long before Link was even born. My question is ''why?'' It's not like Link needed a reason to go out and save the world - he's done it in other games, and the developers can write him to be that sort of character, if they wanted to. Or make the rebirth-as-girlfriend thing just an unfortunate coincidence, thereby giving Link a reason to go after someone he cares about, without the idea that it's all based on fabrication and manipulation.
[[/folder]]
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**Hadn't Hylia given up much of her power and been born mortal when Demise placed that curse? I'm pretty sure he was still a demon god when he did it. As for the Triforce, probably for the same reason they didn't use it to stop Demise twice and instead had to battle him in the past.
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[[/folder]]
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**Given how much time passes between certain incarnations of Link, it's probably safe to say that the clothes belonging to the "Legendary Hero" amount to basically "green tunic, green hat, leather/brown boots, and sword." Those are the main details that stay consistant. Even [=OoT=]!Link doesn't keep EXACTLY the same outfit as an adult. He adds some sort of white unitard under his tunic that he certainly didn't have as a kid. So when, say, TP!Link gets told he's now wearing the clothes that "used to belong to the hero," it probably doesn't literally mean "You are now wearing the ''EXACT'' tunic that belongs to a dude who died centuries ago." It may be more like "You are now wearing the style and general look that is specifically unique to the Legendary Hero."
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[[folder:The Curse]]
* If Hylia is equal or greater than Demise in power, shouldn't she be able to break the curse plaguing Zelda and Link's bloodlines? Or they could even use the omnipotent Triforce to do it. And this wouldn't just be them being selfish. That curse caused a lot of collateral damage.
* If Hylia is equal or greater than Demise in power, shouldn't she be able to break the curse plaguing Zelda and Link's bloodlines? Or they could even use the omnipotent Triforce to do it. And this wouldn't just be them being selfish. That curse caused a lot of collateral damage.
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** The reason that neither Hylia nor her human incarnation as Zelda were able to use the Triforce, as well as why it had to be Link, were explained in-game.
*** Gods and goddesses cannot use the Triforce, as it serves as a symbol of hope for mortals for the day where a person in perfect balance can make a wish to change the world. Hylia, in the war against Demise, could not wish to destroy Demise due to her divinity. She could, however, set the groundwork to create a balanced person to use the Triforce.
*** Zelda, even after regaining her memories as Hylia, did not have a balanced soul, just as she didn't in ''Ocarina of Time''. Her role was to be able to set herself up to get the chosen hero to start his quest, but more importantly to be sent to the past to use her powers to hold of the Imprisoned's seal breaking as long as possible.
*** The Triforce, to protect it unworthy hands, has it's safeguard. Despite Link being a good guy from the beginning, he had not proven himself to possess the traits needed to be deemed worthy to make the wish to destroy Demise. So after forging the Master Sword with each flame, Link steadily proved himself worthy as he demonstrated each aspect by overcoming all the trials set before him.
*** Gods and goddesses cannot use the Triforce, as it serves as a symbol of hope for mortals for the day where a person in perfect balance can make a wish to change the world. Hylia, in the war against Demise, could not wish to destroy Demise due to her divinity. She could, however, set the groundwork to create a balanced person to use the Triforce.
*** Zelda, even after regaining her memories as Hylia, did not have a balanced soul, just as she didn't in ''Ocarina of Time''. Her role was to be able to set herself up to get the chosen hero to start his quest, but more importantly to be sent to the past to use her powers to hold of the Imprisoned's seal breaking as long as possible.
*** The Triforce, to protect it unworthy hands, has it's safeguard. Despite Link being a good guy from the beginning, he had not proven himself to possess the traits needed to be deemed worthy to make the wish to destroy Demise. So after forging the Master Sword with each flame, Link steadily proved himself worthy as he demonstrated each aspect by overcoming all the trials set before him.
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[[folder: Hylia's reincarnation and the "gears of fate"]]
* The thing that bothers me the most about the game's big reveal about [[spoiler: Zelda being Hylia reborn]] is that she specifically tells Link that it was ''intentional''. She purposefully deemed that she would be reborn as the girl who would grow up to be Link's love interest, in order to be thrown into danger so that he would be motivated to save her, and in doing so defeat Demise - in effect, their entire relationship was prefabricated long before Link was even born. My question is ''why?'' It's not like Link needed a reason to go out and save the world - he's done it in other games, and the developers can write him to be that sort of character, if they wanted to. Or make the rebirth-as-girlfriend thing just an unfortunate coincidence, thereby giving Link a reason to go after someone he cares about, without the idea that it's all based on fabrication and manipulation.
[[/folder]]
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[[folder: Game-breaking bug 2]]
* Stemming from what's posted a folder or two above, how does that bug end up glitching the game anyway? From what I've heard, the way it works is that if you talk to the Goron archaeologist twice after learning Lanayru's part, the game gets glitched up and erroneously checks off the event flags saying that you've learned Faron's and Eldin's parts, as well. If the game is under the misconception that you have all the parts you need, though...why would you actually ''need'' to complete the trials? Why wouldn't the game let you return to Levias to learn the final part, if that's logically where you would be heading next?
[[/folder]]
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[[folder: Zelda's death]]
* Grim thought, but...what would happen if Zelda died before Ghirahim got to her? Would she reincarnate again? He apparently needs her soul in order to break the seal on Demise, and even though Grannie said that the seal on the Imprisoned would grow even weaker in times, chances are Link could just kill him off if he ever did escape for real.
[[/folder]]
* Grim thought, but...what would happen if Zelda died before Ghirahim got to her? Would she reincarnate again? He apparently needs her soul in order to break the seal on Demise, and even though Grannie said that the seal on the Imprisoned would grow even weaker in times, chances are Link could just kill him off if he ever did escape for real.
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[[folder: Batreaux]]
* How did Batreaux ever manage to reach Skyloft in the first place? Wasn't one of the reasons for Hylia sending the humans into the sky to keep them safe from demons?
[[/folder]]
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** The point is, after checking with everyone in town, she still says that someone must've kidnapped Kukiel and just "walked off with her." Skyloft is a small town - Batreaux aside, who does she think was responsible for that, if she asked everyone, where does she think they took Kukiel, and why does she never consider that Kukiel might've fallen over the edge or something?
