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** Goblins have had lots of depictions in folklore and popular culture. But more importantly, they're not ''ghosts'', either. ''Obake'' is often translated as "ghost" in English. But more often than not, myths about ''obake'' portray them as inanimate objects that have come to life or monsters that can shapeshift.
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** It seems someone at Nintendo agreed, and Spiked Beetles had their name changed to Spiny for the Switch remake. Camo Goblins at least have a descriptive name (''biyon obake'', translated as "stretchy ghost" but see above) and don't appear to have been directly based on the Mario enemies (but based on the same mythical creature).
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** And Marin's wish isn't specifically to become a seagull; it's to be able to fly so that she can leave the island. She tells Link that ''if'' she were a seagull, she'd go flying around the world and sing to people, but becoming a seagull isn't the actual wish she made. [[spoiler: In the 1993 release of the game, the secret ending even has her appear as a winged human girl, not a seagull like the ''DX'' and Switch versions have her has.]]
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*** Not necessarily. First off, Princess Zelda in the Oracle games does resemble Marin, to the point that they share the same sprite. And if she’s supposed to be the same Princess from A Link to the Past, that just means they retconned her design. And the island’s geography alone gives us hints that Link’s effects on the dream have already merged with the Wind Fish’s, since the layout is the same as A Link to the Past’s overworld: village and forest to the west, castle in the center with cemetery northwest of it, small house on a hill south of the castle, large body of water in the southeast, and mountains with waterfalls up in the north.
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*** Also, don’t know if you realized this, but your point about Zelda and Marin not resembling each other works against you, because the Oracle games are the only related titles to this one where Princess Zelda resembles Marin — they even used the same sprites for the two of them! But as you’ve pointed out, setting the Oracle games after Link’s Awakening means that the only iteration of Zelda Link has met before (the one from A Link to the Past) does not look remotely like Marin without the Oracle games to retcon her design. If anything, what they should’ve done is disconnect A Link to the Past from the saga rather than relocating the Oracle games, since it’s the one that doesn’t make as much sense.
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** Uhh, pardon me, but the Ocean King was never said to have been “asleep” or to have created a world through his dreams. The world that he watches over is just a separate universe from Hyrule’s, one where time apparently passes differently in between them. Link could not have ended up on the Ghost Ship at the end of the game if the events of the story were a dream, because the opening shows he lost his grip and fell into the sea before he could climb aboard.
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*** ...But “in hindsight” is how all prequels work. If you’re going to say that the events of the game can’t be viewed in hindsight, then that means the Encyclopedia shouldn’t matter either. It would mean that every new game shouldn’t matter, that each one exists entirely in a vacuum with no effect on or from the ones that came before it, if we aren’t allowed to look at any of them in hindsight.\\
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And even if they’re the creators, their word should not be able to trump so much in-game evidence like this. The Oracle games weren’t prequels just because the developers said so — it’s also because there are a lot of things about them that mesh together with this one and fill in some of its holes.
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And even if they’re the creators, their word should not be able to trump so much in-game evidence like this. The Oracle games weren’t prequels just because the developers said so — it’s also because there are a lot of things about them that mesh together with this one and fill in some of its holes.
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** Hardware limitations for the '93 release. Between the 64 KB file size of Game Boy cartridges at the time and the way the game processed displaying text, making the message play faster or adding a function to skip a message entirely would have meant cutting something from the game.
** It's a common superstition that dying in your dreams will make you die in real life. But the question of how real everything was is still a bit vague. Was Link actually asleep the entire time? Or did he just get sent flying by the column of water at the end that made him land in the wreckage of his ship as the island disappeared? [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaPhantomHourglass The Ocean King]] is commonly speculated to be related to the Wind Fish in some way (both are whales trapped in a deep sleep that creates a world that is only accessible while dreaming), and ''Phantom Hourglass'' ended not with the World of the Ocean King being destroyed by him waking up, but instead the connection between the two worlds is severed. Link and Tetra had to get back to their ship before the connection was broken or risk being trapped until the next time the Ocean King fell asleep.
*** Whether you buy it or not, this is Nintendo's new canon. While there are definitely some errors in the book, Miyamoto and Aonuma have talked about the change to the timeline a few times leading up to the release of the Switch remake. As far as "Termina stopped existing", the book was written by Nintendo employees but is supplementary material. It also appears to be a recent reinterpretation of the game, and the Encyclopedia didn't have much of the producers' input since it wasn't supposed to have a lot of new information anyway. My guess is either some notes got mixed up (conflating Termina with Koholint) or it was made up to explain away things like the Moon having a face.\\
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In any case, Link putting his name on his sword and shield because of the Tokay is only obvious in hindsight. ''Link's Awakening'' came out 8 years before ''Oracle of Ages''. I think it's more likely he did it because he's a Knight of Hyrule after the events of ''A Link to the Past'' and he didn't want other people using ''his'', since they were heirlooms from his uncle rather than standard issue equipment. As for the characters being based off of people he knew, even the on character from his chunk of the timeline that seems similar isn't; Zelda and Marin have different hair color, skin tone, and ear shape. The rest of the [=NPCs=] are unique to this game, and the majority are talking animals. It also begs the question of why Link didn't have the mark of the Triforce on his hand in ''Link's Awakening'', since it was an important plot point in both of the ''Oracle'' games.
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In any case, Link putting his name on his sword and shield because of the Tokay is only obvious in hindsight. ''Link's Awakening'' came out 8 years before ''Oracle of Ages''. I think it's more likely he did it because he's a Knight of Hyrule after the events of ''A Link to the Past'' and he didn't want other people using ''his'', since they were heirlooms from his uncle rather than standard issue equipment. As for the characters being based off of people he knew, even the on character from his chunk of the timeline that seems similar isn't; Zelda and Marin have different hair color, skin tone, and ear shape. The rest of the [=NPCs=] are unique to this game, and the majority are talking animals. It also begs the question of why Link didn't have the mark of the Triforce on his hand in ''Link's Awakening'', since it was an important plot point in both of the ''Oracle'' games.
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*** Or a maybe Rito?
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** All things considered, her resemblance to Zelda is passing at best. Given that her hair and skin are different tones that Zelda's, I think Link mistaking her for Zelda would be grogginess (or a concussion) rather than an actual striking similarity. But if she was from Link's dream rather than the Wind Fish's, it seems like other people knowing her would be hard to explain. Even though the island only exists within the Wind Fish's dream, it doesn't seem likely that the Wind Fish has only been asleep for a few moments when Link wakes up in Marin's home.
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*** Given the statement below about if he had been swallowed or something, Link was ejected from the island by a column of water before the island disappeared. The only thing that would be in that general area would be the flotsam from the wreck. I think that the Wind Fish made sure he landed close enough, or even pushed Link onto it, before he woke up.
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*** The Zelda Encyclopedia confirmed that the name is official. Several of the other monsters in that guide have names that were at odds with other guides at the time but are now considered correct.
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* Several enemies are taken from ''Mario''. But why do some have the same English names as they do in ''Mario'' while others don't? Several of them - Boo, Goomba, Piranha Plant - share their ''Mario'' names in both languages. But then others - Spiked Beetle (Spiny), Evil Eagle (Albatoss), Camo Goblin (Boo Blah) - have the same name in Japan for both series but different names in English. Obviously some are more recognizable than others, and the localization team would notice them right away. But if they knew some of them were shared between the series, why not double check to make sure they stay consistent?
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** Besides, how do you know what goblins look like?
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** In the Switch remake Marin's ears are now visible all the time, and they're shown to be round.
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*** I'm not quite buying what their website says. (And I especially don't buy anything the encyclopedia says -- that's the same book that tried to explain away Termina as being an imaginary world that disappeared at the end of the game.) There are things about ''Link's Awakening'' that only really make sense by assuming the ''Oracle'' games came first, like many of the residents of Koholint being based off of people Link met in the ''Oracle'' games, and Link making it a point to write his name on his sword and shield after what happened with the Tokay in ''Oracle of Ages''.
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*** I'm not quite buying what their website says. (And I especially don't buy anything the encyclopedia says -- that's the same book that tried to explain away Termina as being an imaginary world that disappeared at the end of the game.) There are things about ''Link's Awakening'' that only really make sense by assuming the ''Oracle'' games came first, like many of the residents of Koholint being based off of people Link met in the ''Oracle'' games, and Link making it a point to write his name on his sword and shield after what happened with the Tokay in ''Oracle of Ages''. Distancing these games from one another in the timeline would be one thing, but just reversing the order in which they occurred makes absolutely no sense.
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*** I'm not quite buying what their website says. (And I especially don't buy anything the encyclopedia says -- that's the same book that tried to explain away Termina as being an imaginary world that disappeared at the end of the game.) There are things about ''Link's Awakening'' that only really make sense by assuming the ''Oracle'' games came first, like many of the residents of Koholint being based off of people Link met in the ''Oracle'' games, and Link making it a point to write his name on his sword and shield after what happened with the Tokay in ''Oracle of Ages''.
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** That was Prima's name for them, not Nintendo's.
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[[folder: Questionable dub name changes]]
* Why were Stretchy Ghosts [[DubNameChange renamed Camo Goblins]] in the English translation, when they look nothing like goblins?
[[/folder]]
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** It's also possible she represents some aspect of the Wind Fish's mind that, while not quite having the lucid dream experience that the Owl has, nevertheless intuitively knows there's something beyond the familiar world and wants to go there. Basically, while the Owl is the part of the Wind Fish that thinks, as a matter of logic or ethics or necessity, that they should wake up, Marin is the part that, on a much more emotional level *wants* to wake up.
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** It's also possible she represents some aspect of the Wind Fish's mind that, while not quite having the lucid dream experience that the Owl has, nevertheless intuitively knows there's something beyond the familiar world and wants to go there. Basically, while the Owl is the part of the Wind Fish that thinks, as a matter of logic or ethics or necessity, that they should wake up, Marin is the part that, on a much more emotional level level, *wants* to wake up.
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** The camera's only on them for a about a minute, and the Wind Fish flies by at both the beginning and the end of that, not seeming to go very far away. Who's to say that, moments after the "camera" cuts out, the Wind Fish doesn't swoop down and offer Link a ride to the shore?
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** It's also possible she represents some aspect of the Wind Fish's mind that, while not quite having the lucid dream experience that the Owl has, nevertheless intuitively knows there's something beyond the familiar world and wants to go there. Basically, while the Owl is the part of the Wind Fish that thinks, as a matter of logic or ethics or necessity, that they should wake up, Marin is the part that, on a much more emotional level *wants* to wake up.
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*** [[https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/zelda/history/index.html This page on Nintendo's official website]], which puts the ''Oracle'' games ''after'' Link's Awakening, though apparently it still maintains that ''Oracle'' Link is the same guy as the one from ''A Link to the Past'' and ''Link's Awakening''. To answer your other point, the devs have said [[https://www.famitsu.com/news/201808/01161782.html here]] that they still intend to keep the timeline somewhat fluid; while they're almost certainly not going to change, say, the relationship between ''Wind Waker'', ''Twilight Princess', and ''Ocarina of Time'', games that are shakier in their placement, like the ''Four Swords'' trilogy, may still be shifted around depending on the circumstances.
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*** [[https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/zelda/history/index.html This page on Nintendo's official website]], which puts the ''Oracle'' games ''after'' Link's Awakening, though apparently it still maintains that ''Oracle'' Link is the same guy as the one from ''A Link to the Past'' and ''Link's Awakening''. To answer your other point, the devs have said [[https://www.famitsu.com/news/201808/01161782.html here]] that they still intend to keep the timeline somewhat fluid; while they're almost certainly not going to change, say, the relationship between ''Wind Waker'', ''Twilight Princess', Princess'', and ''Ocarina of Time'', games that are shakier in their placement, like the ''Four Swords'' trilogy, may still be shifted around depending on the circumstances.
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*** [[https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/zelda/history/index.html This page on Nintendo's official website]], which puts the ''Oracle'' games ''after'' Link's Awakening, though apparently it still maintains that ''Oracle'' Link is the same guy as the one from ''A Link to the Past'' and ''Link's Awakening''. To answer your other point, the devs have said [[https://www.famitsu.com/news/201808/01161782.html here]] that they still intend to keep the timeline somewhat fluid; while they're almost certainly not going to change, say, the relationship between ''Wind Waker'', ''Twilight Princess', and ''Ocarina of Time'', games that are shakier in their placement, like the ''Four Swords'' trilogy, may still be shifted around depending on the circumstances.
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** Remove? I don't think that ever ''was'' an option, especially not in the games that came before ''Link's Awakening''. You can make the text go by more quickly, but never skip it entirely.
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** It could be that Marin's hair covers her ears precisely to make it difficult to tell that her ears are rounded, so that she'd have a closer resemblance to Zelda.
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** The specifics aren't terribly clear. The developers did state at one point that the Wind Fish's dreaming brought Koholint into the real world, but that does clash with the ending, in which Link is still tied to the mast like he was during the intro. So it could be something like ''Phantom Hourglass'', where the events of the dream moved slower through time than those of the real world. (Kind of like how dreams in real life work.)
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* The symbolism of the ending's events was a little [[EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory ''peculiar'']] in that Koholint disappeared before the "celestial area" where Link held an audience with the deity's consciousness, he was later ejected out through [[WaterGeyserVolley a column of water.]] Was he blown out through a spout? Was he not just in the Wind Fish's dream, but also cryptically [[SwallowedWhole inside the whale god]] the entire time? Would the survival rates be higher or lower?
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* The symbolism of the ending's events was a little [[EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory ''peculiar'']] ''[[EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory peculiar]]'' in that Koholint disappeared before the "celestial area" where Link held an audience with the deity's consciousness, he was later ejected out through [[WaterGeyserVolley a column of water.]] Was he blown out through a spout? Was he not just in the Wind Fish's dream, but also cryptically [[SwallowedWhole inside the whale god]] the entire time? Would the survival rates be higher or lower?
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* The symbolism of the ending's events was a little ''peculiar'' in that Koholint disappeared before the "celestial area" where Link held an audience with the deity's consciousness, he was later ejected out through [[WaterGeyserVolley a column of water.]] Out through a spout?
Was he not just in the Wind Fish's dream but also cryptically [[SwallowedWhole inside the whale god]] the entire time?
Was he not just in the Wind Fish's dream but also cryptically [[SwallowedWhole inside the whale god]] the entire time?
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* The symbolism of the ending's events was a little ''peculiar'' [[EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory ''peculiar'']] in that Koholint disappeared before the "celestial area" where Link held an audience with the deity's consciousness, he was later ejected out through [[WaterGeyserVolley a column of water.]] Out Was he blown out through a spout?
spout? Was he not just in the Wind Fish's dream dream, but also cryptically [[SwallowedWhole inside the whale god]] the entire time?time? Would the survival rates be higher or lower?
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[[folder: The Storm]]
* How did Link survive the violent storm in the prologue? Or dreaming days, maybe even weeks away, in the real world? He's seen in the ending half-submerged in the ocean, [[HandWave tied to what's left]] of the ship's mast. The prospects aren't looking good there, unless the Wind Fish [[YearInsideHourOutside dreams at a different rate of time]], Link would soon die of starvation, dehydration or hypothermia.
* The symbolism of the ending's events was a little ''peculiar'' in that Koholint disappeared before the "celestial area" where Link held an audience with the deity's consciousness, he was later ejected out through [[WaterGeyserVolley a column of water.]] Out through a spout?
Was he not just in the Wind Fish's dream but also cryptically [[SwallowedWhole inside the whale god]] the entire time?
[[/folder]]
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*** Do you have the exact source for that statement? I don't mean to offend, but I have a hard time believing two books released by the same company would contradict each other so much.
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** I attribute it to the Windfish being a Semi-Divine Jackass. (Is that a trope?) He considers assisting him a great honour in iteslf, and thus doesn't feel like he needs to help the insignificant Hylian after all Link went through.
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** I attribute it to the Windfish being a Semi-Divine Jackass. (Is that a trope?) He considers assisting him a great honour in iteslf, itself, and thus doesn't feel like he needs to help the insignificant Hylian after all Link went through.
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** This Troper liked to joke that Link grabbed some driftwood, started paddling while singing "Row Row Row Your Boat" to the tune of "Marin's Song".
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** This Troper liked to joke that Link grabbed some driftwood, driftwood and started paddling while singing "Row Row Row Your Boat" to the tune of "Marin's Song".
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* Are Marin's ear's the pointy elf kind, or are they more human like? All the official art of her has her hair covering it so it's hard to tell. And consider that with differing art styles, the length of a Hylian's ears can vary so just saying their round because if they were elf ears, they'd be longer is not the end of the discussion.
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* Are Marin's ear's ears the pointy elf kind, or are they more human like? human-like? All the official art of her has her hair covering it it, so it's hard to tell. And consider that with differing art styles, the length of a Hylian's ears can vary vary, so just saying their they're round because if they were elf ears, they'd be longer is not the end of the discussion.
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** Even in the manga where there's a lot of art of Marin, her hair is always covering her ears. Apparently, it's part of her character design. Nonetheless, all of the other natives of Koholint Island have rounded ears so presumably Marin would as well.
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** Even in the manga where there's a lot of art of Marin, her hair is always covering her ears. Apparently, it's part of her character design. Nonetheless, all of the other natives of Koholint Island have rounded ears ears, so presumably Marin would as well.
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** Lazy programmers?
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** Alternately, this is the only Link game that has an in-game justification to continues--since he doesn't actually die, the dream just "jumps back" to a point where he was still alive and continues forward as if nothing happened.
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** Alternately, this is the only Link ''Zelda'' game that has an in-game justification to continues--since he continues -- since Link doesn't actually die, the dream just "jumps back" to a point where he was still alive and continues forward as if nothing happened.
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** "THE WIND FISH SLUMBERS LONG...THE HERO'S LIFE, GONE..." This issue is touched upon by one of the owl statues in the game - even if the island was ''created'' through the Wind Fish's dreams, as long as Link remains inside it, anything and everything that happens is just as real as the rest of the world. In short, the Wind Fish could sleep for 100 years or more, but there's nothing to stop ''Link'' from aging away and dying in that time.
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** "THE WIND FISH SLUMBERS LONG...THE HERO'S LIFE, GONE..." This issue is touched upon by one of the owl statues in the game - -- even if the island was ''created'' through the Wind Fish's dreams, as long as Link remains inside it, anything and everything that happens is just as real as the rest of the world. In short, the Wind Fish could sleep for 100 years or more, but there's nothing to stop ''Link'' from aging away and dying in that time.
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***Hyrule Encyclopedia retcons this again. The Link of the ''Oracle'' games is a different character.
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* Considering Marin's resemblance to Zelda, it's possible that Marin actually comes from Link's dream rather than the Wind Fish's. She doesn't really belong on Koholint Island at all, even though everyone else presumes she does. Also notice that she always refers to Tarin by his first name rather than as "dad" or "father".
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** "THE WIND FISH SLUMBERS LONG...THE HERO'S LIFE, GONE..." This issue is touched upon by one of the owl statues in the game - even if the island was ''created'' through the Wind Fish's dreams, as long as Link remains inside it, anything and everything that happens is just as real as the rest of the world. In short, the Wind Fish could sleep for 100 years or more, but there's nothing to stop ''Link'' from aging away and dying in that time.
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[[folder: Why only her?]]
* Why ''is'' Marin the only one on the island who wonders and desires to explore what lies beyond it? Whenever Link asks anyone else about it, it's always "Whoa, OUTSIDE the island? What do you mean, OUTSIDE? Whoa! The whole idea just makes my head hurt!" Did the Wind Fish dream up Marin as an especially special someone amidst the other people on Koholint? Was it because she was the one who found Link on the shore? Or is she just the only curious person on the island?
[[/folder]]
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** ''You'' might think the squawks they make are horrible-sounding, but that's your opinion. Marin evidently thinks otherwise, seeing as she refers to their calls as "singing". Not to mention, seagulls are probably the only birds she knows, and all she sees them do is fly out over the sea. Of course she would wish to be one of them.
