History Headscratchers / TheKingkillerChronicle

21st Sep '16 9:22:45 AM Opunaesala
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*** This is supported by Kvothe chuckling "Forgot who I was there for a minute." after the fight is concluded. He started fighting well, then realized he is supposed to be "Kote" and not know how to fight.
3rd Aug '16 5:19:57 PM Discar
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*** Except, of course, when they do. Vashet spent quite a long while talking about her Poet King. Explicitly an outsider she had sex with.
*** Keep in mind, Vashet is frikken weird by Adem standards, because she herself is someone rather well traveled. The Adem are a culture, not a monolyth, and individuals are going to accept some norms of Adem society and reject others, like literally any other culture in the world. To think otherwise is to stereotype. So when the Adem say they don't have sex with outsiders as a rule, that's perfectly true. But that doesn't exclude the possibility of exceptions. Also, as far as her Poet King goes, we have no idea the circumstances of Vashet's relationship with him. Who knows, maybe she only consented when she drove enough Outsider out of him.
*** Vashet isn't "weird" and specially not because she's "well-traveled"; by the very nature of their business, ''all'' of the Adem have to be well-traveled: their main source of income is being paid swords. And nothing in Vashet's mentions of her poet king remotely implies that he even so much as trained a bit, unlike Kvothe, so, yes, he was an outsider. And this contradicts the second-level bullet anyway: It means the Adem don't explicitly not have sex with strangers; they can and will, making all of their ideas about pregnancy even more nonsensical. And there's no such thing as "stereotyping" fictional cultures; we don't expect consistency in real life because it's real life. Fiction isn't real life and, thus, if a culture is described, it ''should'' be consistent. If not, then we might as well drop the headscratchers section of every work altogether.

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*** ** Except, of course, when they do. Vashet spent quite a long while talking about her Poet King. Explicitly an outsider she had sex with.
*** ** Keep in mind, Vashet is frikken weird by Adem standards, because she herself is someone rather well traveled. The Adem are a culture, not a monolyth, and individuals are going to accept some norms of Adem society and reject others, like literally any other culture in the world. To think otherwise is to stereotype. So when the Adem say they don't have sex with outsiders as a rule, that's perfectly true. But that doesn't exclude the possibility of exceptions. Also, as far as her Poet King goes, we have no idea the circumstances of Vashet's relationship with him. Who knows, maybe she only consented when she drove enough Outsider out of him.
*** ** Vashet isn't "weird" and specially not because she's "well-traveled"; by the very nature of their business, ''all'' of the Adem have to be well-traveled: their main source of income is being paid swords. And nothing in Vashet's mentions of her poet king remotely implies that he even so much as trained a bit, unlike Kvothe, so, yes, he was an outsider. And this contradicts the second-level bullet anyway: It means the Adem don't explicitly not have sex with strangers; they can and will, making all of their ideas about pregnancy even more nonsensical. And there's no such thing as "stereotyping" fictional cultures; we don't expect consistency in real life because it's real life. Fiction isn't real life and, thus, if a culture is described, it ''should'' be consistent. If not, then we might as well drop the headscratchers section of every work altogether.



*** Kvothe explicitly mentioned the Chandrian as the root of his criticism of Denna's song. It was then that Denna called him a child.

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*** ** Kvothe explicitly mentioned the Chandrian as the root of his criticism of Denna's song. It was then that Denna called him a child.
3rd Aug '16 5:02:18 PM phylos
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** The Adem are a bunch of liars and hypocrites, they are aware their society doesn't make sense and don't care about it. Vashet explicitly said that she didn't care for for the truth.

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*** Vashet isn't "weird" and specially not because she's "well-traveled"; by the very nature of their business, ''all'' of the Adem have to be well-traveled: their main source of income is being paid swords. And nothing in Vashet's mentions of her poet king remotely implies that he even so much as trained a bit, unlike Kvothe, so, yes, he was an outsider. And this contradicts the second-level bullet anyway: It means the Adem don't explicitly not have sex with strangers; they can and will, making all of their ideas about pregnancy even more nonsensical. And there's no such thing as "stereotyping" fictional cultures; we don't expect consistency in real life because it's real life. Fiction isn't real life and, thus, if a culture is described, it ''should'' be consistent. If not, then we might as well drop the headscratchers section of every work altogether.
** The Adem are a bunch of liars and hypocrites, they are aware their society doesn't make sense and don't care about it. Vashet explicitly said that she didn't care for for the truth.
18th Apr '16 1:21:13 AM Jerkass
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*** Keep in mind, Vashet is frikken weird by Adem standards, because she herself is someone rather well traveled. The Adem a culture, and individuals are going to accept some norms of Adem society and reject others, like literally any other culture in the world. To think otherwise is to stereotype. So when the Adem say they don't have sex with outsiders as a rule, that's perfectly true. But that doesn't exclude the possibility of exceptions. Also, as far as her Poet King goes, we have no idea the circumstances of Vashet's relationship with him. Who knows, maybe she only consented when she drove enough Outsider out of him.

to:

*** Keep in mind, Vashet is frikken weird by Adem standards, because she herself is someone rather well traveled. The Adem are a culture, not a monolyth, and individuals are going to accept some norms of Adem society and reject others, like literally any other culture in the world. To think otherwise is to stereotype. So when the Adem say they don't have sex with outsiders as a rule, that's perfectly true. But that doesn't exclude the possibility of exceptions. Also, as far as her Poet King goes, we have no idea the circumstances of Vashet's relationship with him. Who knows, maybe she only consented when she drove enough Outsider out of him.
18th Apr '16 1:20:17 AM Jerkass
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*** Except we don't actually know the circumstances. Vashet may have come to know him well enough not to consider him too much of an outsider. Or otherwise, keep in mind, Vashet is frikken weird by Adem standards, because she herself is someone rather well traveled. The Adem a culture, and individuals are going to accept some norms of Adem society and reject others, like literally any other culture in the world. It's stereotyping to think otherwise.

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*** Except we don't actually know the circumstances. Vashet may have come to know him well enough not to consider him too much of an outsider. Or otherwise, keep Keep in mind, Vashet is frikken weird by Adem standards, because she herself is someone rather well traveled. The Adem a culture, and individuals are going to accept some norms of Adem society and reject others, like literally any other culture in the world. It's stereotyping to To think otherwise. otherwise is to stereotype. So when the Adem say they don't have sex with outsiders as a rule, that's perfectly true. But that doesn't exclude the possibility of exceptions. Also, as far as her Poet King goes, we have no idea the circumstances of Vashet's relationship with him. Who knows, maybe she only consented when she drove enough Outsider out of him.
18th Apr '16 1:18:13 AM Jerkass
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*** Except we don't actually know the circumstances. Vashet may have come to know him well enough not to consider him too much of an outsider. Or otherwise, keep in mind, Vashet is frikken weird by Adem standards, because she herself is someone rather well traveled. The Adem a culture, and individuals are going to accept some norms of Adem society and reject others, like literally any other culture in the world. It's stereotyping to think otherwise.
10th Jan '16 9:27:09 AM phylos
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*** Kvothe explicitly mentioned the Chandrian as the root of his criticism of Denna's song. It was then that Denna called him a child.
** The plot hole is not only Denna's complete change in attitude about the Seven in comparison with the first book but Kvothe himself calls it childish in the narration. He seems not to remember that Denna accepted the Chandrian once before.
10th Jan '16 9:04:50 AM phylos
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*** Except, of course, when they do. Vashet spent quite a long while talking about her Poet King. Explicitly an outsider she had sex with.
** The Adem are a bunch of liars and hypocrites, they are aware their society doesn't make sense and don't care about it. Vashet explicitly said that she didn't care for for the truth.
15th Nov '15 5:28:50 PM Jerkass
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** In any case, Denna doesn't know the Chandrian-Lanre connection. Kvothe objects to it on the sheer grounds that Lanre was an asshole, the Chandrian connection kept private. Denna may or may not believe in the Chandrian (given her interaction in the wedding and also the various implications of her life story, I would guess she's aware of them), but even if she has come to do so, it doesn't mean she will believe all folk tales. As far as I can tell, Denna just thinks she made a song about an obscure but otherwise random folk hero, and Kvothe is getting huffy for no reason she can understand because he won't tell her.
7th Aug '15 4:42:57 PM Discar
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First, the Cthaeh lives in a place where times doesn't flow as it does in the real world, so "5000 years" to him might have a completely different meaning for the Four Corners.
Second, Skarpi and Felurian. Felurian, old as she can be, is not quite interested in history, so she most likely just doesn't know (not everyone would know when the punic wars were actually fought, most would just know it was ''really'' a long time ago), and Skarpi is still a storyteller, he himself admits to have changed some details to make the story sound better, and "so long that no one remembers it" sound better than "something more than 5000 years ago" (plus, over 5000 years ago might mean two or three hundreds years, even more if you consider that the resulting empire is ruled by Aleph, by some believed the actual god who created the whole world).

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** First, the Cthaeh lives in a place where times doesn't flow as it does in the real world, so "5000 years" to him might have a completely different meaning for the Four Corners.
Corners. Second, Skarpi and Felurian. Felurian, old as she can be, is not quite interested in history, so she most likely just doesn't know (not everyone would know when the punic wars were actually fought, most would just know it was ''really'' a long time ago), and Skarpi is still a storyteller, he himself admits to have changed some details to make the story sound better, and "so long that no one remembers it" sound better than "something more than 5000 years ago" (plus, over 5000 years ago might mean two or three hundreds years, even more if you consider that the resulting empire is ruled by Aleph, by some believed the actual god who created the whole world).



*** The Adem don't believe that animals reproduce through sexual intercourse either. They believe that sex has nothing to do with reproduction. They don't even have a word for father. If they did conceed that animals reproduce sexually, just not humans, then the argument would have been much different. The culture would also have a word for father, because they'd need to use it for animals.

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*** ** The Adem don't believe that animals reproduce through sexual intercourse either. They believe that sex has nothing to do with reproduction. They don't even have a word for father. If they did conceed that animals reproduce sexually, just not humans, then the argument would have been much different. The culture would also have a word for father, because they'd need to use it for animals.



-->Fan Questioner: Have you read about the Trobriand Islanders, the matriarchal society whose diet serves as birth control for the population?\\

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-->Fan --->Fan Questioner: Have you read about the Trobriand Islanders, the matriarchal society whose diet serves as birth control for the population?\\



*** Adem women secretly controlling their pregnancies through diet is never even hinted at in the books. That would be a pretty major lie at the center of their society. Also, as I recall, the only cook we meet in Four Corners is a man. How do Adem women secretly control their diet when there are men making their food? Also, Adem women spend a lot of time away from their homeland fighting. How do they maintain a contraceptive diet when food resources are limited? Also, none of this addresses my previous concern that animal husbandry reveals the link between sexual intercourse and pregnancy.
*** The Adem don't have sex outside their own society, since they're afraid of STD's. The most likely possibility is that the contraceptives are a naturally occurring part of their diet, some herb they use to spice their foods, not a vast conspiracy. Still not sure about animals, but maybe they're affected by the contraceptive too, so the Adem don't really have animal husbandry? Been a while since I read the book, so I don't recall how much detail was given there.
*** First off, Adem ''do'' have sex outside of their own society. Kvothe has sex with them. They also talk about having sex with other outsiders. Secondly, the Adem must have animal husbandry because they have leather and meat and aren't a hunter/gatherer society. Kvothe comments on the quality of their food and various possessions. If their livestock were wild animals, their products would be inferior to what Kvothe is accustomed. Thirdly, if the Adem diet is a natural contraceptive and everyone is always eating it without realizing that it's affecting their fertility, that would really only explain why Adem women aren't perpetually pregnant. It would also mean that Adem would be much more fertile when they're away from their homeland, which would mean that all their recessive traits wouldn't make any sense. Almost all of their children would be from women having sex with foreigners in distant lands while they're off their contraceptives.
*** The Adem ''explicitly'' do not have sex when they are away from their homeland. They don't trust random outsiders not to have diseases. Outsiders they invite into their lands for training are an exception, not the rule.

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*** ** Adem women secretly controlling their pregnancies through diet is never even hinted at in the books. That would be a pretty major lie at the center of their society. Also, as I recall, the only cook we meet in Four Corners is a man. How do Adem women secretly control their diet when there are men making their food? Also, Adem women spend a lot of time away from their homeland fighting. How do they maintain a contraceptive diet when food resources are limited? Also, none of this addresses my previous concern that animal husbandry reveals the link between sexual intercourse and pregnancy.
*** ** The Adem don't have sex outside their own society, since they're afraid of STD's. The most likely possibility is that the contraceptives are a naturally occurring part of their diet, some herb they use to spice their foods, not a vast conspiracy. Still not sure about animals, but maybe they're affected by the contraceptive too, so the Adem don't really have animal husbandry? Been a while since I read the book, so I don't recall how much detail was given there.
*** ** First off, Adem ''do'' have sex outside of their own society. Kvothe has sex with them. They also talk about having sex with other outsiders. Secondly, the Adem must have animal husbandry because they have leather and meat and aren't a hunter/gatherer society. Kvothe comments on the quality of their food and various possessions. If their livestock were wild animals, their products would be inferior to what Kvothe is accustomed. Thirdly, if the Adem diet is a natural contraceptive and everyone is always eating it without realizing that it's affecting their fertility, that would really only explain why Adem women aren't perpetually pregnant. It would also mean that Adem would be much more fertile when they're away from their homeland, which would mean that all their recessive traits wouldn't make any sense. Almost all of their children would be from women having sex with foreigners in distant lands while they're off their contraceptives.
*** ** The Adem ''explicitly'' do not have sex when they are away from their homeland. They don't trust random outsiders not to have diseases. Outsiders they invite into their lands for training are an exception, not the rule.



* In The Wise Mans Fear(p.796), while Kvothe is with the Adem, he makes a wax doll, and its implied he is going to use it on Vashnet, as he took some hairs from her earlier. However he never uses it or gets rid of it and we never hear of it again. Has Rothfuss forgotten it or have i just missed something?
** If I'm not mistaken, that was an intentional red herring. It was used to indicate how nervous Kvothe was getting around the Adem, and they fighting his way out may have to be an option, raising the tension. In the end, it wasn't necessary, but it illustrated how uneasy things got.
* Exactly. The whole scene indicated that Kvothe having to fight his way out was a very real possibility; not only did he have the doll, but he also gathered spare sword-iron and a vial of hot water (to power his sympathy). The scene was meant to illustrate how desperate things almost got.

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* In The Wise Mans Fear(p.Fear (p.796), while Kvothe is with the Adem, he makes a wax doll, and its it's implied he is going to use it on Vashnet, as he took some hairs from her earlier. However he never uses it or gets rid of it and we never hear of it again. Has Rothfuss forgotten it or have i I just missed something?
** If I'm not mistaken, that was an intentional red herring. It was used to indicate how nervous Kvothe was getting around the Adem, and they that fighting his way out may have to be an option, raising the tension. In the end, it wasn't necessary, but it illustrated how uneasy things got.
* ** Exactly. The whole scene indicated that Kvothe having to fight his way out was a very real possibility; not only did he have the doll, but he also gathered spare sword-iron and a vial of hot water (to power his sympathy). The scene was meant to illustrate how desperate things almost got.



Plus, you can't just break a link, what they actual do it's identifying what the link is and focus their alar in believing such a link does not exist, and Abenthy didn't know what exactly Kvothe linked it's breath to, so perhaps he just decided not to risk it (after all, there are no drawbacks in using onomancy, the only problem is the prejudice surrounding it, but it was established it wasn't a problem with the Edema).

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** Plus, you can't just break a link, what they actual do it's is identifying what the link is and focus their alar in believing such a link does not exist, and Abenthy didn't know what exactly Kvothe linked it's its breath to, so perhaps he just decided not to risk it (after all, there are no drawbacks in using onomancy, the only problem is the prejudice surrounding it, but it was established it wasn't a problem with the Edema).
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