History Headscratchers / TheHunchbackofNotreDame

11th Feb '18 7:52:40 PM sugaricequeen
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** Frollo taking Quasi happened ''because'' she didn't survive - caring for him was his way of repenting for causing her death. If she hadn't died, Frollo probably would've given Quasi back to her and taken her to the Palace of Justice with the other gypsies. (Or maybe because she claimed sanctuary, she and Quasi would've been taken into the cathedral, but that seems unlikely.)

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** Frollo taking Quasi happened ''because'' she didn't survive - caring for him was his way of repenting for causing her death. If she hadn't died, Frollo probably would've given Quasi back to her and taken her to the Palace of Justice with the other gypsies. Or, with no reason to spare his life, he'd have dropped Quasi down the well, and then taken his mother to the Palace of Justice alone. (Or maybe because she claimed sanctuary, she and Quasi would've been taken into the cathedral, but that seems unlikely.)
11th Feb '18 7:48:55 PM sugaricequeen
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** Frollo taking Quasi happened ''because'' she didn't survive - caring for him was his way of repenting for causing her death. If she hadn't died, Frollo probably would've given Quasi back to her and taken her to the Palace of Justice with the other gypsies. (Or maybe because she claimed sanctuary, she and Quasi would've been taken into the cathedral, but that seems unlikely.)
8th Feb '18 1:43:24 PM huntdaddy
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* What would have happened if Quasimodo's mother survived after Frollo took Quasi from her?
22nd Dec '17 3:35:15 PM sugaricequeen
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* How did Quasi's mother manage to escape all those guards at the beginning of the film, and why was Frollo the only one who chased after her?
17th Dec '17 1:17:48 PM ngh93
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** The sequel confirms that the Gargoyles are real magical sapient creatures, and ''not'' Quasi's imagination; [[spoiler: At the end,the Gargoyles are sad to lose Quasimodo and hope that Madellaine will take care of him. Then ''Madellaine'' winks at the Gargoyles and tells them she'll take good care of Quasi, causing the shocked Gargoyles do to a literal JawDrop]]

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** The sequel confirms that the Gargoyles are real magical sapient creatures, and ''not'' Quasi's imagination; [[spoiler: At the end,the Gargoyles are sad to lose Quasimodo and hope that Madellaine will take care of him. Then ''Madellaine'' winks at the Gargoyles and tells them she'll take good care of Quasi, causing the shocked Gargoyles do to a literal JawDrop]]JawDrop]].
11th Dec '17 3:11:00 PM Random888
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** They're imaginary when RuleOfDrama is in effect and real when RuleOfFunny is in effect.
6th Dec '17 2:11:15 AM LB7979
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** On a more meta note, the main reason could be just straight up white-washing Quasimodo to look white because having a brown, disabled, physically "deformed" lead would be too radical for Disney, especially seeing as there's already got a socially aware woman of colour as the romantic lead. Also, symbolically red hair is typified as a marking of an "Other" and works nicely with his green shirt and both injected natural "earthy" tones into the mostly stone grey and gold palette of the Notre Dame interior.

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** On a more meta note, the main reason could be just straight up white-washing Quasimodo to look white because having a brown, disabled, physically "deformed" lead would be too radical for Disney, especially seeing as there's already got a socially aware woman of colour as the romantic lead. Also, symbolically red hair is typified as a marking of an "Other" and works nicely with his green shirt and both injected natural "earthy" tones into the mostly stone grey and gold palette of the Notre Dame interior.
5th Dec '17 10:26:23 PM loracarol
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*** Seeing Frollo's actions with the bakery that Phoebus didn't want to burn and they only got out because of his interference and nobody else was as helpful as Phoebus,presumably Frollo actually killed more than a dozen random families. You could see that a big part of the city was literally burning. It's irksome how the people needed Phoebus to clarify in the climax that when Frollo sets your houses on fire for no real reason he is evil. In reality the city would have gone V for Vendetta-style right before Quasi's lovesong with the senseless references to the future, hanged Frollo like Louis XIV and everything would have been solved.

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*** Seeing Frollo's actions with the bakery that Phoebus didn't want to burn and they only got out because of his interference and nobody else was as helpful as Phoebus,presumably Phoebus. Presumably Frollo actually killed more than a dozen random families. You could see that a big part of the city was literally burning. It's irksome how the people needed Phoebus to clarify in the climax that when Frollo sets your houses on fire for no real reason he is evil. In reality the city would have gone V for Vendetta-style right before Quasi's lovesong with the senseless references to the future, hanged Frollo like Louis XIV and everything would have been solved.
25th Nov '17 3:32:04 PM PrincessGwen
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** On a more meta note, the main reason could be just straight up white-washing Quasimodo to look white because having a brown, disabled, physically "deformed" lead would be too Radical for Disney, especially seeing as there's already got a socially aware woman of colour as the romantic lead. Also, symbolically red hair is typified as a marking of an "Other" and works nicely with his green shirt and both injected natural "earthy" tones into the mostly stone grey and gold palette of tthe Notre Dame interior.

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** On a more meta note, the main reason could be just straight up white-washing Quasimodo to look white because having a brown, disabled, physically "deformed" lead would be too Radical radical for Disney, especially seeing as there's already got a socially aware woman of colour as the romantic lead. Also, symbolically red hair is typified as a marking of an "Other" and works nicely with his green shirt and both injected natural "earthy" tones into the mostly stone grey and gold palette of tthe the Notre Dame interior.



** And Frollo is already going quite mad in his obsession. Sure a few weeks ago he may have brought Phoebus to the Palace of Justice. But now that he's so riled up about Esmerelda, he opts to make a public spectacle. And maybe he thought that taking Phoebus back to the city would be an unnecessary delay - thus allowing Esmerelda to escape even further?

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** And Frollo is already going quite mad in his obsession. Sure a few weeks ago he may have brought Phoebus to the Palace of Justice. But now that he's so riled up about Esmerelda, Esmeralda, he opts to make a public spectacle. And maybe he thought that taking Phoebus back to the city would be an unnecessary delay - thus allowing Esmerelda Esmeralda to escape even further?



* At one point Frollo bars the miller and his family inside the mill and orders Phoebus to set the place on fire. Phoebus refuses. ''Why?'' You or I would never do such a thing, of course -- but you and I have the privilege of living in a place and time where setting a place of business afire with the business owner and his family barred inside is generally considered a Bad Thing. Phoebus does not share this privilege. Phoebus, in fact, lives in a time where such actions were an expected aspect of soldiering. "We know enough if we know we're the King's subjects. If his cause be wrong, our obedience to the King wipes the crime of it out of us" -- ''I was only following orders'' really was all the excuse you needed. Civilian deaths, rapes, "naked infants spitted upon pikes" were all regrettable but expected side effects of fifteenth-century warfare. So why does Phoebus refuse to set the mill on fire? ''It's not like he's never done anything like that before.''It's also important to remember that in this time, people believed in a microinterventionist God -- one who placed every human being in his or her proper station in life. If you were a lord, it was because ''God'' had put you there -- specifically wanted ''you'' to be subject to your overlord and the king, and wanted your subjects to be under you. A commoner was someone ''God'' had made a commoner: if you were a peasant, it was because He had placed everyone else in a position of authority over you, and wanted you to be in authority only over your own wife and children. Defying your overlord was tantamount to defying the Almighty. By refusing a direct order from Frollo -- whom GOD has placed in authority over him -- Phoebus is in effect spitting in God's face.

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* At one point Frollo bars the miller and his family inside the mill and orders Phoebus to set the place on fire. Phoebus refuses. ''Why?'' You or I would never do such a thing, of course -- but you and I have the privilege of living in a place and time where setting a place of business afire with the business owner and his family barred inside is generally considered a Bad Thing.bad thing. Phoebus does not share this privilege. Phoebus, in fact, lives in a time where such actions were an expected aspect of soldiering. "We know enough if we know we're the King's subjects. If his cause be wrong, our obedience to the King wipes the crime of it out of us" -- ''I was only following orders'' really was all the excuse you needed. Civilian deaths, rapes, "naked infants spitted upon pikes" were all regrettable but expected side effects of fifteenth-century warfare. So why does Phoebus refuse to set the mill on fire? ''It's not like he's never done anything like that before.''It's also important to remember that in this time, people believed in a microinterventionist God -- one who placed every human being in his or her proper station in life. If you were a lord, it was because ''God'' had put you there -- specifically wanted ''you'' to be subject to your overlord and the king, and wanted your subjects to be under you. A commoner was someone ''God'' had made a commoner: if you were a peasant, it was because He had placed everyone else in a position of authority over you, and wanted you to be in authority only over your own wife and children. Defying your overlord was tantamount to defying the Almighty. By refusing a direct order from Frollo -- whom GOD has placed in authority over him -- Phoebus is in effect spitting in God's face.



*** The court of miracles was the hiding place of thieves and gypsies, as far as I understand and beggars were probably there, too, if they weren't busy begging because they have no home.

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*** The court Court of miracles Miracles was the hiding place of thieves and gypsies, as far as I understand and beggars were probably there, too, if they weren't busy begging because they have no home.



** And another thing, turning herself in would not necessarily be the right thing to do either; if Frollo was willing to burn down a whole city to get to one girl, then turning herself in would have been appeasement. People like Frollo should be confronted, rather than given what they want. And whose to say he wouldn't have don something similar to another girl in the future?

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** And another thing, turning herself in would not necessarily be the right thing to do either; if Frollo was willing to burn down a whole city to get to one girl, then turning herself in would have been appeasement. People like Frollo should be confronted, rather than given what they want. And whose who's to say he wouldn't have don done something similar to another girl in the future?



* When Frollo talks to Phoebus at the Palace of Justice regarding the Court of Miracles, how he slams the block down upside down.

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* When Frollo talks to Phoebus at the Palace of Justice regarding the Court of Miracles, how does he slams slam the block down upside down.down?



** Besides, "literally burned to the ground" and "thousands of people arrested" is still an exaggeration. More like, several fires and dozens of people is more plausible. Finally, remember that people were trying to break through the chain of guards and free Esmaralda, shouting: "She's innocent!" If Frollo suddenly announced that, yes, he's going to "let her go", everybody would think he'd finally come to his senses.
** It's doubtful Frollo would have let Esmerelda walk free out of Paris at the end of it all. He'd probably make her join a convent, to really sell the "repented sinner" shtick... and where he could still keep an eye on her.
** After Esmerelda spits in his face, Frollo very publicly says to the crowd that she refused to repent. So if she had said yes, he would have announced that she repented and was going to be spared because of it.

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** Besides, "literally burned to the ground" and "thousands of people arrested" is still an exaggeration. More like, several fires and dozens of people is more plausible. Finally, remember that people were trying to break through the chain of guards and free Esmaralda, Esmeralda, shouting: "She's innocent!" If Frollo suddenly announced that, yes, he's going to "let her go", everybody would think he'd finally come to his senses.
** It's doubtful Frollo would have let Esmerelda Esmeralda walk free out of Paris at the end of it all. He'd probably make her join a convent, to really sell the "repented sinner" shtick... and where he could still keep an eye on her.
** After Esmerelda Esmeralda spits in his face, Frollo very publicly says to the crowd that she refused to repent. So if she had said yes, he would have announced that she repented and was going to be spared because of it.



** It would have made the film a whole lot more darker and less child friendly than it already was. There's only so much the film can get away with while still keeping it a G-rated Disney film. Or maybe it just never occurred to Frollo that he could rape her. But to put it out there, he does try to rape Esmeralda in the novel, which is saying something.

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** It would have made the film a whole lot more darker and less child friendly than it already was. There's only so much the film can get away with while still keeping it a G-rated Disney film. Or maybe it just never occurred to Frollo that he could rape her. But to put it out there, he does try to rape Esmeralda in the novel, which is saying something.



** He is sort of a control-freak, used to be in control, to have his way and all. His feelings of obsession were obviously making him lost and took this feeling of security of him (not that this justifies ''anything'' before someone thinks otherwise!) and the only way he would feel in control of the situation was if Esmeralda ''chose'' him (not that it would have been much of a choice, coercion and death threat, etc) AND it was the only way he would feel victorious at the end. There is also the possibility that, with the whole Hollier Than Thou attitude, Frollo actually thought he was better than that... And the last possibility, is that in some deep (deep, ''DEEP'') part of him, his feelings of obsession for Esmeralda had a tiny bit of genuine love, just enough to stop him from doing so (leading to the thought of making Esmeralda accept him. And even if ''this'' doesn't make sense, remember, Frollo has a very twisted point of view).

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** He is sort of a control-freak, used to be in control, to have his way and all. His feelings of obsession were obviously making him lost and took this feeling of security of him (not that this justifies ''anything'' before someone thinks otherwise!) and the only way he would feel in control of the situation was if Esmeralda ''chose'' him (not that it would have been much of a choice, coercion and death threat, etc) AND it was the only way he would feel victorious at the end. There is also the possibility that, with the whole Hollier Holier Than Thou attitude, Frollo actually thought he was better than that... And the last possibility, is that in some deep (deep, ''DEEP'') part of him, his feelings of obsession for Esmeralda had a tiny bit of genuine love, just enough to stop him from doing so (leading to the thought of making Esmeralda accept him. And even if ''this'' doesn't make sense, remember, Frollo has a very twisted point of view).



* Why would Frollo the hater of all sins and vices go to the festival of fools. They had beer and partying why on earth would he show up?

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* Why would Frollo the hater of all sins and vices go to the festival Festival of fools. Fools? They had beer and partying partying, so why on earth would he show up?



*** Yeah, it's easy to picture Quasi and Frollo climbing back up, and Frollo saying something like "Soooo...sorry 'bout this whole mess. Hey, yeah, I-I know I tired to rape and kill you, and commit genocide against your people, and everything, but that was like the old me; I'm a changed man now. So hey, no hard feelings, right?"

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*** Yeah, it's easy to picture Quasi and Frollo climbing back up, and Frollo saying something like "Soooo...sorry 'bout this whole mess. Hey, yeah, I-I know I tired tried to rape and kill you, and commit genocide against your people, and everything, but that was like the old me; I'm a changed man now. So hey, no hard feelings, right?"



** "Minister" in a non-religious context refers to any politician who holds significant public office in a national or regional government. (i.e. Prime minister).
* At the beginning of the film, After the shot comes out of the clouds and we catch a view of all of Paris, we can see an enormous structure in the background. Let's assume that that's Notre Dame. The shot then zooms down into the streets of Paris and the market. At this point, Clopin begins singing, then, in the background, we see Notre Dame, which looks tiny at first against the skyline. How can that big structure be Notre Dame when we zoom into the city and see Notre Dame against the skyline? Haven't the animators heard of dimensions? Also, the first shot where we see the bell towers and the spire poking through the clouds...come on! Notre Dame is big, but it's not THAT freaking big!

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** "Minister" in a non-religious context refers to any politician who holds significant public office in a national or regional government. (i.e. Prime minister).
Minister).
* At the beginning of the film, After after the shot comes out of the clouds and we catch a view of all of Paris, we can see an enormous structure in the background. Let's assume that that's Notre Dame. The shot then zooms down into the streets of Paris and the market. At this point, Clopin begins singing, then, in the background, we see Notre Dame, which looks tiny at first against the skyline. How can that big structure be Notre Dame when we zoom into the city and see Notre Dame against the skyline? Haven't the animators heard of dimensions? Also, the first shot where we see the bell towers and the spire poking through the clouds...come on! Notre Dame is big, but it's not THAT freaking big!



** In the German stage show she dies from carbon monoxide poisoning so presumably yes from smoke inhalation. It could also be from the heat of the flames. She was only on the pyre for about a minute but that could have been long enough to cause her to pass out. She could have also willingly submitted to passing out as she believed she was going to die.

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** In the German stage show show, she dies from carbon monoxide poisoning so presumably yes from smoke inhalation. It could also be from the heat of the flames. She was only on the pyre for about a minute but that could have been long enough to cause her to pass out. She could have also willingly submitted to passing out as she believed she was going to die.



** It's also why he's so keen to find the Court of Miracles. He has no power to execute the gypsies as it is - but the Court of Miracles shelters thieves and other criminals. If he finds that, then he can have them all executed for aiding and abetting criminals

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** It's also why he's so keen to find the Court of Miracles. He has no power to execute the gypsies as it is - but the Court of Miracles shelters thieves and other criminals. If he finds that, then he can have them all executed for aiding and abetting criminalscriminals.



** During TheMiddleAges, gypsies were stereotyped as notorious con artists who stole money, kidnapped children (Like Sarousch in [[Disney/TheHunchbackOfNotreDameii the sequel]]) and had fortune tellings, palm readings etc. That sort of thing was considered witchcraft, which is unholy in Frollo's mind. And he was hardly the only one who hated gypsies in those days. He just happens to be in a position of power where he can actually do something about it. Essentially he believed they were all heathens and criminals.

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** During TheMiddleAges, gypsies were stereotyped as notorious con artists who stole money, kidnapped children (Like Sarousch in [[Disney/TheHunchbackOfNotreDameii [[Disney/TheHunchbackOfNotreDameII the sequel]]) and had fortune tellings, palm readings etc. That sort of thing was considered witchcraft, which is unholy in Frollo's mind. And he was hardly the only one who hated gypsies in those days. He just happens to be in a position of power where he can actually do something about it. Essentially he believed they were all heathens and criminals.



** Presumably Frollo didn't want him to go out in public was fear of them finding out ''why'' he's in the cathedral in the first place. Think about it: no one knows that Frollo visits him personally. Anyone just knows that he visits the church. But if Quasi was outside he might mention Frollo as his master. Thus people might find out Frollo's sin of murdering the child's mother, or worse - assume he's Frollo's illegitimate son. But of course it'd be impossible to keep him completely secret forever. People in the church might catch a glimpse or hear gossip, thus starting the legend.

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** Presumably Frollo didn't want him to go out in public was in fear of them finding out ''why'' he's in the cathedral in the first place. Think about it: no one knows that Frollo visits him personally. Anyone just knows that he visits the church. But if Quasi was outside he might mention Frollo as his master. Thus people might find out Frollo's sin of murdering the child's mother, or worse - assume he's Frollo's illegitimate son. But of course it'd be impossible to keep him completely secret forever. People in the church might catch a glimpse or hear gossip, thus starting the legend.



* Why during Quasimodo's humiliation Clopin does nothing to stop the citizens from pelting him ?

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* Why Why, during Quasimodo's humiliation does Clopin does do nothing to stop the citizens from pelting him ?him?



** Frollo was quite likely killed by the impact of hitting the ground if the lead was less deep than it appears. If its as deep as it looked (based on him disappearing into it), its probably best not thinking about what his death was like being submurged in molten lead.

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** Frollo was quite likely killed by the impact of hitting the ground if the lead was less deep than it appears. If its it's as deep as it looked (based on him disappearing into it), its it's probably best not thinking about what his death was like being submurged in molten lead.



* Whose in charge of The Palace of Justice now Frollo died?

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* Whose Who's in charge of The Palace of Justice now that Frollo died?
22nd Nov '17 3:53:09 PM fearlessnikki
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** And Frollo is already going quite mad in his obsession. Sure a few weeks ago he may have brought Phoebus to the Palace of Justice. But now that he's so riled up about Esmerelda, he opts to make a public spectacle. And maybe he thought that taking Phoebus back to the city would be an unnecessary delay - thus allowing Esmerelda to escape even further?


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** After Esmerelda spits in his face, Frollo very publicly says to the crowd that she refused to repent. So if she had said yes, he would have announced that she repented and was going to be spared because of it.


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** Or darker still - maybe once the WitchHunt began she was afraid that if she told the other gypsies that Frollo's adopted son had a map to their hideout, they might turn her in themselves out of fear for their own lives.


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** And Frollo might have considered finding an appropriate nurse to care for the baby to be part of his atonement for murdering the mother. He's bound to have servants of his own, so one of them might have been given the job.


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** FridgeHorror - she was only knocked out by the kick but assumed dead, and thus froze to death there on the steps.


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** Maybe a monk was assigned that job. In monasteries the monks would be given jobs like farming or copying books. Ringing the bells was usually done on a rota. It's just that as Quasimodo grew older, ringing the bells would be the way of keeping him safely hidden away from the public.
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