History Headscratchers / TalesOfTheAbyss

13th Jul '17 4:12:55 PM EggEmperor
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* By the end of the game everyone learns that Hod and Akzeriuth were destroyed in the "same" manner. That is by the destruction of their respective passage rings. This also had an additional effect that becomes very important: The Hod Ring (8th) and Akzeriuth Ring (5th) supported Albertesque seal, a hardwired lock that prevented the Passage Ring system and the Sepherioth it controls from being tampered with or manipulated in anyway. Both rings were destroyed by induced 7th Fonon Hyperresonances - Ring 8 was destroyed when the Malkeuth military hooked Van to a machine to produce the chain reaction, and we all saw how Ring 5 was destroyed. Both events are constantly compare to each other but if you look closely the couldn't be more different. The Akzeriuth Ring was pulverized along with it's entire "shrine" and the result was the core area it alone supported basically imploded, crumbling into nothing with only the cores of the sourounding Mountains surviving to fall into the Qlipphoth, the rest of Southern Rugnica only survived due to the areas proximity to the Chesed and Binah Rings which probably temporarily picked up the slack - as Asch note. As such the destruction of Akzeriuth can only be described as utterly violent and pretty much instantaneous - if we take the cutseen's pace as real time it took about a minute or so from the disruption of the 5th Ring to the complete implosion of Akzeriuth. On the other hand when St. Binah begins to crumble due to Van shutting down the the Binah Ring, Tear notes that even with the Sepherioth Tree gone, the dividing line is temporarily keeping the land aloft, and she gives the example of Hod taking a hours to days to fall below it and make the actual plunge into the Qlipphoth. St. Binah does pass the line and falls into the sea of misama, and it does for the vast majority as a single intact chunk of land. After this happens, when Field Marshal McGovern asks what is to be St. Binah's fate, Tear then states that it will eventually - in the near term - sink into the liquefied mantle and be destroyed, remarking yet again that it took Hod nearly a month to sink after it fell, which lends to the idea that like St. Binah, Hod took time to fall and when it did it stayed together as a single landmass before it eventually sank into the mantle over the course of several weeks. This ultimately suggests that Hod's fate was far more like St. Binah's close call then the cataclysm that was the end of Akzeriuth. The question is why? Especially as it seems - if the lore we are provided by the game is to be believed - that the manner of their destruction was exactly the same - induced Hyperressonance?

to:

* By the end of the game everyone learns that Hod and Akzeriuth were destroyed in the "same" manner. That is by the destruction of their respective passage rings. This also had an additional effect that becomes very important: The Hod Ring (8th) and Akzeriuth Ring (5th) supported Albertesque seal, a hardwired lock that prevented the Passage Ring system and the Sepherioth it controls from being tampered with or manipulated in anyway. Both rings were destroyed by induced 7th Fonon Hyperresonances - Ring 8 was destroyed when the Malkeuth military hooked Van to a machine to produce the chain reaction, and we all saw how Ring 5 was destroyed. Both events are constantly compare compared to each other but if you look closely the they couldn't be more different. The Akzeriuth Ring was pulverized along with it's entire "shrine" and the result was the core area it alone supported basically imploded, crumbling into nothing with only the cores of the sourounding surrounding Mountains surviving to fall into the Qlipphoth, the rest of Southern Rugnica only survived due to the areas proximity to the Chesed and Binah Rings which probably temporarily picked up the slack - as Asch note.notes at the end of Ortion caveren. As such the destruction of Akzeriuth can only be described as utterly violent and pretty much instantaneous - if we take the cutseen's pace as real time it took about a minute or so from the disruption of the 5th Ring to the complete implosion of Akzeriuth. On the other hand when St. Binah begins to crumble due to Van shutting down the the Binah Ring, Tear notes that even with the Sepherioth Tree gone, the dividing line is temporarily keeping the land aloft, and she gives the example of Hod taking a hours to days to fall below it and make the actual plunge into the Qlipphoth. St. Binah does pass the line and falls into the sea of misama, and it does so for the vast majority all intents as a single intact chunk of land. After this happens, when Field Marshal McGovern asks what is to be St. Binah's fate, Tear then states that it will eventually - in the near term - sink into the liquefied mantle and be destroyed, remarking yet again that it took Hod nearly a month to sink after it fell, which fell. This lends to the idea that like St. Binah, Hod took some time to fall and when it did it stayed together as a single landmass before it eventually sank into the mantle over the course of several weeks. This ultimately suggests that Hod's fate was far more like St. Binah's close call then the cataclysm that was the end of Akzeriuth. The question is why? Especially as it seems - if the lore we are provided by the game is to be believed - that the manner of their destruction was exactly the same - induced Hyperressonance?Hyperresonance?



** Luke is the hero and is special and thus the Hyperresonance he unleashed was much more powerful, physically destroying the Akzeriuth Ring - and the entire area - while Van's Hyperresonance, "merely" shorted out the Hod Ring, shutting it down and causing Hod to begin to fall

to:

** Luke is the hero hero, being the replica of the chosen one and isophone of Lorelei - and due to the natures of replicas basically another Lorelei himself - and is special and thus the special. Therefore Hyperresonance he unleashed was much more powerful, physically destroying the Akzeriuth Ring - and the entire area - while Van's Hyperresonance, "merely" shorted out the Hod Ring, shutting it down and causing Hod to begin to fall
13th Jul '17 4:05:35 PM EggEmperor
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This Troper has a few questions regarding Guy and where his loyalties laid during parts of the game, having noticed things that seem a bit more off.

When Guy jumps in to save Luke and the others from Legretta and Arietta he jumps from high above on the Mast of the Tartarus; right before he appears Legretta turns her head towards where he jumps from and then turns back away. The first few playthroughs it never clicked but it's not just her noticing him it's her noticing, then dismissing her notice of him as though he were a ally. Considering the later revelations that Van is technically Guy's vassal and Guy was loyal to him, with the whole revenge plot of Killing Luke to get back at Duke Fabre - Was he on the ship, possibly for some time, maybe as part of the Oracle Knights raiding party - and thus working with Van and the God Generals to Capture Ion or to retrieve Luke? Everyone always goes on and on about Anise and her traitor status, but Guy seems to get off Scott free for a lot of murky things that seem to suggest that he was involved in a ton of deaths early on.

Secondly how much did Guy know about Luke being a replica? For the first few playthroughs I though that Guy was completely ignorant of Luke not being the "real" Luke until the Asch's reveal at Yulia City. However reading the opinions of other Tropers and playing the game again have changed that somewhat. Jade Knew by the time you entered St. Binah - he makes a comment about Ion's exhaustion being abnormal and wonders it he is the "same" as Luke - heck he begins to become suspicious when you first meet him and Luke mentions the Amnesia while first on the Tartarus-"Amnesia, could it Be?". But did Guy know from the start? Did he know that Van not only kidnapped Luke but made a copy of him and it was that copy that returned to the manor, which Guy was basically supposed to raise?

Further does that mean that Guy knew about Van deciding to continue the First Ion's Replica World Plan of destroying the world to save it? Would that also mean that he knew what was going to happen at Akzeriuth and lead his "friend(s)" to their deaths? At what point did Guy decide enough is enough and Van is completely crazy?

to:

This
*This
Troper has a few questions regarding Guy and where his loyalties laid during parts of the game, having noticed things that seem a bit more off.

When *When Guy jumps in to save Luke and the others from Legretta and Arietta he jumps from high above on the Mast of the Tartarus; right before he appears Legretta turns her head towards where he jumps from and then turns back away. The first few playthroughs it never clicked but it's not just her noticing him it's her noticing, then dismissing her notice of him as though he were a ally. Considering the later revelations that Van is technically Guy's vassal and Guy was loyal to him, with the whole revenge plot of Killing Luke to get back at Duke Fabre - Was he on the ship, possibly for some time, maybe as part of the Oracle Knights raiding party - and thus working with Van and the God Generals to Capture Ion or to retrieve Luke? Everyone always goes on and on about Anise and her traitor status, but Guy seems to get off Scott free for a lot of murky things that seem to suggest that he was involved in a ton of deaths early on.

Secondly *Secondly how much did Guy know about Luke being a replica? For the first few playthroughs I though that Guy was completely ignorant of Luke not being the "real" Luke until the Asch's reveal at Yulia City. However reading the opinions of other Tropers and playing the game again have changed that somewhat. Jade Knew by the time you entered St. Binah - he makes a comment about Ion's exhaustion being abnormal and wonders it he is the "same" as Luke - heck he begins to become suspicious when you first meet him and Luke mentions the Amnesia while first on the Tartarus-"Amnesia, could it Be?". But did Guy know from the start? Did he know that Van not only kidnapped Luke but made a copy of him and it was that copy that returned to the manor, which Guy was basically supposed to raise?

Further *Further does that mean that Guy knew about Van deciding to continue the First Ion's Replica World Plan of destroying the world to save it? Would that also mean that he knew what was going to happen at Akzeriuth and lead his "friend(s)" to their deaths? At what point did Guy decide enough is enough and Van is completely crazy?


Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Destruction of Akzeriuth vs the Fall of Hod]]

*By the end of the game everyone learns that Hod and Akzeriuth were destroyed in the "same" manner. That is by the destruction of their respective passage rings. This also had an additional effect that becomes very important: The Hod Ring (8th) and Akzeriuth Ring (5th) supported Albertesque seal, a hardwired lock that prevented the Passage Ring system and the Sepherioth it controls from being tampered with or manipulated in anyway. Both rings were destroyed by induced 7th Fonon Hyperresonances - Ring 8 was destroyed when the Malkeuth military hooked Van to a machine to produce the chain reaction, and we all saw how Ring 5 was destroyed. Both events are constantly compare to each other but if you look closely the couldn't be more different. The Akzeriuth Ring was pulverized along with it's entire "shrine" and the result was the core area it alone supported basically imploded, crumbling into nothing with only the cores of the sourounding Mountains surviving to fall into the Qlipphoth, the rest of Southern Rugnica only survived due to the areas proximity to the Chesed and Binah Rings which probably temporarily picked up the slack - as Asch note. As such the destruction of Akzeriuth can only be described as utterly violent and pretty much instantaneous - if we take the cutseen's pace as real time it took about a minute or so from the disruption of the 5th Ring to the complete implosion of Akzeriuth. On the other hand when St. Binah begins to crumble due to Van shutting down the the Binah Ring, Tear notes that even with the Sepherioth Tree gone, the dividing line is temporarily keeping the land aloft, and she gives the example of Hod taking a hours to days to fall below it and make the actual plunge into the Qlipphoth. St. Binah does pass the line and falls into the sea of misama, and it does for the vast majority as a single intact chunk of land. After this happens, when Field Marshal McGovern asks what is to be St. Binah's fate, Tear then states that it will eventually - in the near term - sink into the liquefied mantle and be destroyed, remarking yet again that it took Hod nearly a month to sink after it fell, which lends to the idea that like St. Binah, Hod took time to fall and when it did it stayed together as a single landmass before it eventually sank into the mantle over the course of several weeks. This ultimately suggests that Hod's fate was far more like St. Binah's close call then the cataclysm that was the end of Akzeriuth. The question is why? Especially as it seems - if the lore we are provided by the game is to be believed - that the manner of their destruction was exactly the same - induced Hyperressonance?
*The only things I can think of:
**Luke is the hero and is special and thus the Hyperresonance he unleashed was much more powerful, physically destroying the Akzeriuth Ring - and the entire area - while Van's Hyperresonance, "merely" shorted out the Hod Ring, shutting it down and causing Hod to begin to fall
**The only other thing I can think of is that Hod being in the middle of the world had extra support from the other rings around it including the Absorption Gate (Chochmah?)Ring. Any other ideas?
11th Jul '17 12:22:51 AM EggEmperor
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11th Jul '17 12:22:16 AM EggEmperor
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Because all of this really changes one's perception on the guy...

to:

Because all of this really changes one's perception on the guy...guy...

[[/folder]]
11th Jul '17 12:21:40 AM EggEmperor
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Things start to get muddy as you proceed in the game. Ion reads the Planet Score in the volcano, which tells of 'Luke' using a forbidden technique to cleanse the world of the miasma that is plaguing them currently. And the forbidden technique requires 10.000 lives of replicae, though this is done in the story and not actually mentioned to be part of it in the Score itself. (And even the game lampshades that the Tower of Rem is situated practically where Akzeriuth, the miner's city, was originally located, so Luke would still be doing something in the correct location that would kill him...)\\

to:

Things start to get muddy as you proceed in the game. Ion reads the Planet Score in the volcano, which tells of 'Luke' using a forbidden technique to cleanse the world of the miasma that is plaguing them currently. And the forbidden technique requires 10.000 lives of replicae, replicas, though this is done in the story and not actually mentioned to be part of it in the Score itself. (And even the game lampshades that the Tower of Rem is situated practically where Akzeriuth, the miner's city, was originally located, so Luke would still be doing something in the correct location that would kill him...)\\



[[/folder]]

to:

[[/folder]][[/folder]]


[[/folder]]

[[folder: How much did Guy Know?]]
This Troper has a few questions regarding Guy and where his loyalties laid during parts of the game, having noticed things that seem a bit more off.

When Guy jumps in to save Luke and the others from Legretta and Arietta he jumps from high above on the Mast of the Tartarus; right before he appears Legretta turns her head towards where he jumps from and then turns back away. The first few playthroughs it never clicked but it's not just her noticing him it's her noticing, then dismissing her notice of him as though he were a ally. Considering the later revelations that Van is technically Guy's vassal and Guy was loyal to him, with the whole revenge plot of Killing Luke to get back at Duke Fabre - Was he on the ship, possibly for some time, maybe as part of the Oracle Knights raiding party - and thus working with Van and the God Generals to Capture Ion or to retrieve Luke? Everyone always goes on and on about Anise and her traitor status, but Guy seems to get off Scott free for a lot of murky things that seem to suggest that he was involved in a ton of deaths early on.

Secondly how much did Guy know about Luke being a replica? For the first few playthroughs I though that Guy was completely ignorant of Luke not being the "real" Luke until the Asch's reveal at Yulia City. However reading the opinions of other Tropers and playing the game again have changed that somewhat. Jade Knew by the time you entered St. Binah - he makes a comment about Ion's exhaustion being abnormal and wonders it he is the "same" as Luke - heck he begins to become suspicious when you first meet him and Luke mentions the Amnesia while first on the Tartarus-"Amnesia, could it Be?". But did Guy know from the start? Did he know that Van not only kidnapped Luke but made a copy of him and it was that copy that returned to the manor, which Guy was basically supposed to raise?

Further does that mean that Guy knew about Van deciding to continue the First Ion's Replica World Plan of destroying the world to save it? Would that also mean that he knew what was going to happen at Akzeriuth and lead his "friend(s)" to their deaths? At what point did Guy decide enough is enough and Van is completely crazy?
Because all of this really changes one's perception on the guy...
8th Jul '17 11:45:56 AM nombretomado
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** An official [[http://aselia.wikia.com/wiki/Auldrant?file=Auldrant_Structural_Diagram.png structural diagram]] of Auldrant uploaded on TheOtherWiki reveals that the diameter of Auldrant is 11,470 km (For reference, Earth's diameter is 12,742 km), and the diagram reveals that the distance between the Outer Lands and the Qliphoth is 30,000 m, which is only 30 km. So in other words, when the Outer Lands descend back down into the Qliphoth, the overall diameter of Auldrant would only decrease by 30 km, making its total diameter by post-Absorption Gate just 11,440 km. The geography wouldn't really change much except for some slight squeezing of the crust, making it slightly more compact and prone to earthquakes.

to:

** An official [[http://aselia.wikia.com/wiki/Auldrant?file=Auldrant_Structural_Diagram.png structural diagram]] of Auldrant uploaded on TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki reveals that the diameter of Auldrant is 11,470 km (For reference, Earth's diameter is 12,742 km), and the diagram reveals that the distance between the Outer Lands and the Qliphoth is 30,000 m, which is only 30 km. So in other words, when the Outer Lands descend back down into the Qliphoth, the overall diameter of Auldrant would only decrease by 30 km, making its total diameter by post-Absorption Gate just 11,440 km. The geography wouldn't really change much except for some slight squeezing of the crust, making it slightly more compact and prone to earthquakes.
16th Apr '17 7:30:56 AM DivineFlame100
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*** However, Auldrant's diameter is smaller than Earth and even Venus, which would bring a whole new set of problems regarding surface gravity and atmospheric pressure. Auldrant's atmosphere is stated to be 150 km high, which with the descent of the Outer Lands, adds an additional 30 km to the atmosphere. However a planet as small as Auldrant should not be able to hold onto a thick Earth-like atmosphere as described on the diagram because of the weaker surface gravity, and therefore would make Auldrant's atmosphere less thick and dense than it actually is. In addition, the characters in the game should also weigh less as a result, and their bodies would have to be specifically adapted to live in this environment. In order for Auldrant to have Earth gravity and an Earth-like atmosphere, the planet would have to be more massive and more dense in contrast to its diameter, which is where things start to go into the realm of speculation at this point because details of Auldrant's mass and density are never revealed. For all we know, Auldrant could be Earth-like despite its small size because [[AWizardDidIt Lorelei Did It]].

to:

*** However, Auldrant's diameter is smaller than Earth and even Venus, which would bring a whole new set of problems regarding surface gravity and atmospheric pressure. Auldrant's atmosphere is stated to be 150 km high, which with the descent of the Outer Lands, adds an additional 30 km to the atmosphere. However a planet as small as Auldrant should not be able to hold onto a thick Earth-like atmosphere as described on the diagram because of the weaker surface gravity, and therefore would make Auldrant's atmosphere less thick and less dense than it actually is. In addition, the characters in the game should also weigh less as a result, and their bodies would have to be specifically adapted to live in this environment. In order for Auldrant to have Earth gravity and an Earth-like atmosphere, the planet would have to be more massive and more dense in contrast to its diameter, which is where things start to go into the realm of speculation at this point because details of Auldrant's mass and density are never revealed. For all we know, Auldrant could be Earth-like despite its small size because [[AWizardDidIt Lorelei Did It]].
16th Apr '17 7:28:05 AM DivineFlame100
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*** However, Auldrant's diameter is smaller than Earth and even Venus, which would bring a whole new set of problems regarding surface gravity and atmospheric pressure. Auldrant's atmosphere is stated to be 150 km high, which with the descent of the Outer Lands, adds an additional 30 km to the atmosphere. However a planet as small as Auldrant should not be able to hold onto a thick Earth-like atmosphere because of the weaker surface gravity, and therefore would make Auldrant's atmosphere less thick and dense than it actually is. In addition, the characters in the game should also weigh less as a result, and their bodies would have to be specifically adapted to live in this environment. In order for Auldrant to have Earth gravity and an Earth-like atmosphere, the planet would have to be more massive and more dense in contrast to its diameter, which is where things start to go into the realm of speculation at this point because details of Auldrant's mass and density are never revealed. For all we know, Auldrant could be Earth-like despite its small size because [[AWizardDidIt Lorelei Did It]].

to:

*** However, Auldrant's diameter is smaller than Earth and even Venus, which would bring a whole new set of problems regarding surface gravity and atmospheric pressure. Auldrant's atmosphere is stated to be 150 km high, which with the descent of the Outer Lands, adds an additional 30 km to the atmosphere. However a planet as small as Auldrant should not be able to hold onto a thick Earth-like atmosphere as described on the diagram because of the weaker surface gravity, and therefore would make Auldrant's atmosphere less thick and dense than it actually is. In addition, the characters in the game should also weigh less as a result, and their bodies would have to be specifically adapted to live in this environment. In order for Auldrant to have Earth gravity and an Earth-like atmosphere, the planet would have to be more massive and more dense in contrast to its diameter, which is where things start to go into the realm of speculation at this point because details of Auldrant's mass and density are never revealed. For all we know, Auldrant could be Earth-like despite its small size because [[AWizardDidIt Lorelei Did It]].
16th Apr '17 7:02:25 AM DivineFlame100
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to:

*** However, Auldrant's diameter is smaller than Earth and even Venus, which would bring a whole new set of problems regarding surface gravity and atmospheric pressure. Auldrant's atmosphere is stated to be 150 km high, which with the descent of the Outer Lands, adds an additional 30 km to the atmosphere. However a planet as small as Auldrant should not be able to hold onto a thick Earth-like atmosphere because of the weaker surface gravity, and therefore would make Auldrant's atmosphere less thick and dense than it actually is. In addition, the characters in the game should also weigh less as a result, and their bodies would have to be specifically adapted to live in this environment. In order for Auldrant to have Earth gravity and an Earth-like atmosphere, the planet would have to be more massive and more dense in contrast to its diameter, which is where things start to go into the realm of speculation at this point because details of Auldrant's mass and density are never revealed. For all we know, Auldrant could be Earth-like despite its small size because [[AWizardDidIt Lorelei Did It]].
15th Apr '17 9:39:43 PM DivineFlame100
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** An official [[http://aselia.wikia.com/wiki/Auldrant?file=Auldrant_Structural_Diagram.png structural diagram]] of Auldrant uploaded on TheOtherWiki reveals that the diameter of Auldrant is 11,470 km (For reference, Earth's diameter is 12,742 km), and the diagram reveals that the distance between the Outer Lands and the Qliphoth is 30,000 m, which is only 30 km. So in other words, when the Outer Lands descend back down into the Qliphoth, the overall diameter of Auldrant would only decrease by 30 km, making its total diameter by post-Absortion Gate just 11,440 km. The geography wouldn't really change much except for some slight squeezing of the crust, making it slightly more compact and prone to earthquakes.

to:

** An official [[http://aselia.wikia.com/wiki/Auldrant?file=Auldrant_Structural_Diagram.png structural diagram]] of Auldrant uploaded on TheOtherWiki reveals that the diameter of Auldrant is 11,470 km (For reference, Earth's diameter is 12,742 km), and the diagram reveals that the distance between the Outer Lands and the Qliphoth is 30,000 m, which is only 30 km. So in other words, when the Outer Lands descend back down into the Qliphoth, the overall diameter of Auldrant would only decrease by 30 km, making its total diameter by post-Absortion post-Absorption Gate just 11,440 km. The geography wouldn't really change much except for some slight squeezing of the crust, making it slightly more compact and prone to earthquakes.
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