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*****It would actually make more sense for Ratatosk to create [[spoiler: a fake core]] because that would keep him safer from attack by Richter and anyone else who'd like to kill him. Indeed, this is exactly what happened. The Vangard chased Marta around for months while Emil was safely in Luin. It would have been a brilliant plan if [[spoiler: he hadn't taken on the form of someone recognizable to Richter and if he hadn't lost his memories and split his personality in the process.]]
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** To be slightly fair, though you still retain an incredibly valid point, in Symphonia, they had to search for hours in a library to find any book referring back to Martel's quest just so they could find a cure for Colette's reaction to the crystal. It's possible that records dating back to the days pre-death of the Kharlan Tree are either even more difficult to find or, at least by this point, no longer exist. It's also possible that people could never tell the difference between a Centurion and a Summon Spirit or monster. And if none of that convinces you, there's always the chance that the centurions just don't get out much (and considering the way Tenebrae acts, that one makes a lot of sense).
** And it could be that the cores scattered when Ratatosk was killed, since the centurions go to their altars when they take to much damage and Ratatosk isn't around to heal them. Since Ratatosk created the centurions, Ratatosk dying could actually hurt them enough.
*** But what about Aqua and Tenebrae? If the above was true, then wouldn't they have both gone back to their altars as well?
[[WMG: How did the altars get there?]]
* The little tables the centurion's cores are sitting on aren't there in Symphonia, so how did they get there? Did someone decide that these places were missing a few pieces of fancy furniture or something?
** And it could be that the cores scattered when Ratatosk was killed, since the centurions go to their altars when they take to much damage and Ratatosk isn't around to heal them. Since Ratatosk created the centurions, Ratatosk dying could actually hurt them enough.
*** But what about Aqua and Tenebrae? If the above was true, then wouldn't they have both gone back to their altars as well?
[[WMG: How did the altars get there?]]
* The little tables the centurion's cores are sitting on aren't there in Symphonia, so how did they get there? Did someone decide that these places were missing a few pieces of fancy furniture or something?
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[[WMG: Why haven't we seen them before?]]
* The Centurions have been around for quite a while, so why doesn't anybody know about them? There must have been SOME book, SOMEWHERE about them. Not even the CHOSEN seemed to know about them in the first game. Or Raine, for that matter. Nobody seemed to give a damn about them, so why are they so important NOW, when they decided to appear out of thin air? Plus, they're never seen in any other games. Why this one?
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***** The same reasons he had for lying about the other things he lied about, I suppose. [[spoiler:It kept Emil from learning the truth about his nature for some time. If he told them about Ratatosk having split, they would have wondered where the body was]].
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*** It's not so much his fault as the elves.' They were the ones who parked Derris Kharlan and the Tree on Aselia in the first place, after all.
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*** It's possible that protozoans were not so much the first lifeforms as they were the first of a new type of lifeform on Aselia, one that depended on and drew power from mana. Eventually, even the native species would come to rely and draw power from mana as well. Ratatosk saying that the world would return to its natural state seems to indicate that there was life on Aselia before he arrived. It's possible Aselia was lifeless and he could somehow tell life would arise naturally on its own without mana, but that's stretching it a bit.
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***When you get right down to it, the ending has a meta explanation. They just plain wrote themselves into a corner when they made mana vital for all life in TalesOfSymphonia when it clearly wasn't in TalesOfPhantasia. This game's plot basically had to close that hole. Still, Ratatosk's dialog when he explains what he's about to do indicates that there was probably life on the planet before he arrived. He claims that removing the mana dependency will return the world to "how it was meant to be". While it might seem a little lame for humanity to get off so lightly, remember who revived the tree (arguably ''Ratatosk's kid'') in the last game, and who [[spoiler: brings it back to life]] in TalesOfPhantasia. Still, the ending of this game is a lot less upbeat considering that[[spoiler: when Ratatosk cold-bloodedly murders Aster because "it will only be a matter of time before you humans kill the new tree" he is absolutely correct.]]
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*** Except that it's explicitly stated that the first life on the planet were protozoans, and that mana was "the very source of life" before Ratatosk re-wrote those laws. The fossil is a PlotHole; either fossils form more quickly in Tales world than in real life, or Namco just wasn't thinking about that when they put it in.
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*** There's a fossilized dinosaur skeleton in Syback, though, indicating life ''millions'' of years earlier- whereas Derris-Kharlan only arrived 12,000 years earlier, which is also far too recently for any evolution from single cells to humans. The most logical conclusion is that life already existed in a manaless state having evolved in a reasonable amount of time and fossilizing as geological processes naturally do, and the Tree hijacked the ecosystem.
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** If by "the planet got along just fine" you mean "there was no life on the planet at all," then you're right. But if you're looking for life, it didn't show up on this planet until Derris-Kharlan arrived, the elves descended to the planet, and the Giant Kharlan Tree was planted. The first life form, protozoans, sprang up from mana raining down from Derris-Kharlan. Emil's personality changed, I get that, but the humans still almost ended life on the planet and at the end of the story showed no signs that they had changed, eventually doing the exact same thing to the second World Tree. They still don't contribute anything to the planet the way monsters and Summon Spirits do, and they demonstrated perfectly that they are a danger to the planet when they killed the Giant Kharlan Tree, so I'm not convinced it was entirely irrational of Ratatosk to conclude that the planet was better off without them. I feel it shouldn't have been just him who had to change, the humans should have changed as well to demonstrate that they would no longer be a danger to the planet.
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** If by "the planet got along just fine" you mean "there was no life on the planet at all," then you're right. But if you're looking for life, it didn't show up on this planet until Derris-Kharlan arrived, the elves descended to the planet, and the Giant Kharlan Tree was planted. The first life form, protozoans, sprang up from mana raining down from Derris-Kharlan. Emil's personality changed, I get that, but the humans still almost ended life on the planet and at the end of the story showed no signs that they had changed, eventually doing the exact same thing to the second World Tree. They still don't contribute anything to the planet the way monsters and Summon Spirits do, and they demonstrated perfectly that they are a danger to the planet when they killed the Giant Kharlan Tree, so I'm not convinced it was entirely irrational of Ratatosk to conclude that the planet was better off without them. I feel it shouldn't have been just him who had to change, the humans should have changed as well to demonstrate that they would no longer be could live without being a danger to the planet.danger.
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** If by "the planet got along just fine" you mean "there was no life on the planet at all," then you're right. But if you're looking for life, it didn't show up on this planet until Derris-Kharlan arrived, the elves descended to the planet, and the Giant Kharlan Tree was planted. The first life form, protozoans, sprang up from mana raining down from Derris-Kharlan. Emil's personality changed, I get that, but the humans still almost ended life on the planet and at the end of the story showed no signs that they had changed, eventually doing the exact same thing to the second World Tree. And they still don't contribute anything to the planet the way monsters and Summon Spirits do. They demonstrated perfectly that they are a needless danger to the planet when they killed the Giant Kharlan Tree, and I'm not convinced it was entirely irrational of Ratatosk to conclude that the planet was better off without them; so I feel it shouldn't have been just him who had to change, the humans should have changed as well to demonstrate that they would no longer be a danger to the planet.
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** If by "the planet got along just fine" you mean "there was no life on the planet at all," then you're right. But if you're looking for life, it didn't show up on this planet until Derris-Kharlan arrived, the elves descended to the planet, and the Giant Kharlan Tree was planted. The first life form, protozoans, sprang up from mana raining down from Derris-Kharlan. Emil's personality changed, I get that, but the humans still almost ended life on the planet and at the end of the story showed no signs that they had changed, eventually doing the exact same thing to the second World Tree. And they They still don't contribute anything to the planet the way monsters and Summon Spirits do. They do, and they demonstrated perfectly that they are a needless danger to the planet when they killed the Giant Kharlan Tree, and so I'm not convinced it was entirely irrational of Ratatosk to conclude that the planet was better off without them; so them. I feel it shouldn't have been just him who had to change, the humans should have changed as well to demonstrate that they would no longer be a danger to the planet.
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** If by "the planet got along just fine" you mean "there was no life on the planet at all," then you're right. But if you're looking for life, it didn't show up on this planet until Derris-Kharlan arrived, the elves descended to the planet, and the Giant Kharlan Tree was planted. The first life form, protozoans, sprang up from mana raining down from Derris-Kharlan. Emil's personality changed, I get that, but the humans still almost ended life on the planet and at the end of the story showed no signs that they had changed, eventually doing the exact same thing to the second World Tree. And they still don't contribute anything to the planet the way monsters and Summon Spirits do. They demonstrated perfectly that they are a needless danger to the planet when they killed the Giant Kharlan Tree, and I'm not convinced it was entirely irrational of Ratatosk to conclude that the planet was better off without them.
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** If by "the planet got along just fine" you mean "there was no life on the planet at all," then you're right. But if you're looking for life, it didn't show up on this planet until Derris-Kharlan arrived, the elves descended to the planet, and the Giant Kharlan Tree was planted. The first life form, protozoans, sprang up from mana raining down from Derris-Kharlan. Emil's personality changed, I get that, but the humans still almost ended life on the planet and at the end of the story showed no signs that they had changed, eventually doing the exact same thing to the second World Tree. And they still don't contribute anything to the planet the way monsters and Summon Spirits do. They demonstrated perfectly that they are a needless danger to the planet when they killed the Giant Kharlan Tree, and I'm not convinced it was entirely irrational of Ratatosk to conclude that the planet was better off without them.them; so I feel it shouldn't have been just him who had to change, the humans should have changed as well to demonstrate that they would no longer be a danger to the planet.
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** If by "the planet got along just fine" you mean "there was no life on the planet at all," then you're right. But if you're looking for life, it didn't show up on this planet until Derris-Kharlan arrived, the elves descended to the planet, and the Giant Kharlan Tree was planted. The first life form, protozoans, sprang up from mana raining down from Derris-Kharlan. Emil's personality changed, I get that, but the humans still almost ended life on the planet and at the end of the story showed no signs that they had changed, eventually doing the exact same thing to the second World Tree. And they still don't contribute anything to the planet the way monsters and Summon Spirits do. They demonstrated perfectly that they are a needless danger to the planet when they killed the Giant Kharlan Tree, and I'm not convinced it was entirely irrational of Ratatosk to conclude that the planet was better off without them.
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* What happens? Emil's personality happened, along with a love for Marta.
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* What happens? Emil's personality happened, along with a love for Marta.
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* So Ratatosk wanted to wipe out humanity, but over the course of the game his conscious [[CharacterDevelopment develops]] until he changes his mind. But... what did the humans do exactly to change his mind? While of course I wouldn't want Ratatosk to wipe out humanity, they DID destroy the Giant Kharlan Tree with a disastrous war that would have led to the end of all life on the planet if it hadn't been for Mithos, and unlike the monsters Ratatosk leads and the Summon Spirits, humans don't seem to contribute anything to the earth by being here, they just live off it. So Ratatosk's solution is... reprogram the laws of life so that humans are the only ones who WOULDN'T be killed by a mana shortage. This seems like a generous accommodation for them, and I feel like if Ratatosk has to do that, then the humans should do something in return to show they can change their ways. [[spoiler:As it happens, they just kill the new World Tree in exactly the same way as they did the Giant Kharlan Tree, with another disastrous war. *sigh*]]
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* So Ratatosk wanted to wipe out humanity, but over the course of the game his conscious [[CharacterDevelopment develops]] until he changes his mind. But... what did the humans do exactly to change his mind? While of course I wouldn't want Ratatosk to wipe out humanity, they DID destroy the Giant Kharlan Tree with a disastrous war that would have led to the end of all life on the planet if it hadn't been for Mithos, and unlike the monsters Ratatosk leads and the Summon Spirits, humans don't seem to contribute anything to the earth by being here, they just live off it. So Ratatosk's solution is... And yet Ratatosk not only spares them, but he's kind enough to reprogram the laws of life so that humans are the only ones who WOULDN'T be killed by a mana shortage. This seems like a generous accommodation for them, and I just feel like if Ratatosk has to do that, then the humans should do something in return to show they can change their ways. [[spoiler:As it happens, they just kill the new World Tree in exactly the same way as they did the Giant Kharlan Tree, with another disastrous war. *sigh*]]
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* So Ratatosk wanted to wipe out humanity, but over the course of the game his conscious [[CharacterDevelopment develops]] until he changes his mind. But... what did the humans do exactly to change his mind? While of course I wouldn't want Ratatosk to wipe out humanity, they DID destroy the Giant Kharlan Tree with a disastrous war that would have led to the end of all life on the planet if it hadn't been for Mithos, and unlike the monsters Ratatosk leads and the Summon Spirits, humans don't seem to contribute anything to the earth by being here, they just live off it. So Ratatosk's solution is... reprogram the laws of life so that humans are the only ones who WOULDN'T be killed by a mana shortage. This seems like a generous accommodation for them, and I feel like if Ratatosk has to do that, then the humans should do something in return to show they can change their ways. [[spoilers:As it happens, they just kill the new World Tree in exactly the same way as they did the Giant Kharlan Tree, with another disastrous war. *sigh*]]
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* So Ratatosk wanted to wipe out humanity, but over the course of the game his conscious [[CharacterDevelopment develops]] until he changes his mind. But... what did the humans do exactly to change his mind? While of course I wouldn't want Ratatosk to wipe out humanity, they DID destroy the Giant Kharlan Tree with a disastrous war that would have led to the end of all life on the planet if it hadn't been for Mithos, and unlike the monsters Ratatosk leads and the Summon Spirits, humans don't seem to contribute anything to the earth by being here, they just live off it. So Ratatosk's solution is... reprogram the laws of life so that humans are the only ones who WOULDN'T be killed by a mana shortage. This seems like a generous accommodation for them, and I feel like if Ratatosk has to do that, then the humans should do something in return to show they can change their ways. [[spoilers:As [[spoiler:As it happens, they just kill the new World Tree in exactly the same way as they did the Giant Kharlan Tree, with another disastrous war. *sigh*]]
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* So Ratatosk wanted to wipe out humanity, but over the course of the game his conscious [[CharacterDevelopment develops]] until he changes his mind. But... what did the humans do exactly to change his mind? While of course I wouldn't want Ratatosk to wipe out humanity, they DID destroy the Giant Kharlan Tree with a disastrous war that would have led to the end of all life on the planet if it hadn't been for Mithos, and unlike the monsters Ratatosk leads and the Summon Spirits, humans don't seem to contribute anything to the earth by being here, they just live off it. So Ratatosk's solution is... reprogram the laws of life so that humans are the only ones who WOULDN'T be killed by a mana shortage. This seems like a generous accommodation for them, and I feel like if Ratatosk has to do that, then the humans should do something in return to show they can change their ways. [[Spoilers:As it happens, they just kill the new World Tree in exactly the same way as they did the Giant Kharlan Tree, with another disastrous war. *sigh*]]
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* So Ratatosk wanted to wipe out humanity, but over the course of the game his conscious [[CharacterDevelopment develops]] until he changes his mind. But... what did the humans do exactly to change his mind? While of course I wouldn't want Ratatosk to wipe out humanity, they DID destroy the Giant Kharlan Tree with a disastrous war that would have led to the end of all life on the planet if it hadn't been for Mithos, and unlike the monsters Ratatosk leads and the Summon Spirits, humans don't seem to contribute anything to the earth by being here, they just live off it. So Ratatosk's solution is... reprogram the laws of life so that humans are the only ones who WOULDN'T be killed by a mana shortage. This seems like a generous accommodation for them, and I feel like if Ratatosk has to do that, then the humans should do something in return to show they can change their ways. [[Spoilers:As [[spoilers:As it happens, they just kill the new World Tree in exactly the same way as they did the Giant Kharlan Tree, with another disastrous war. *sigh*]]
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[[WMG: Ratatosk and the destruction of humanity]]
* So Ratatosk wanted to wipe out humanity, but over the course of the game his conscious [[CharacterDevelopment develops]] until he changes his mind. But... what did the humans do exactly to change his mind? While of course I wouldn't want Ratatosk to wipe out humanity, they DID destroy the Giant Kharlan Tree with a disastrous war that would have led to the end of all life on the planet if it hadn't been for Mithos, and unlike the monsters Ratatosk leads and the Summon Spirits, humans don't seem to contribute anything to the earth by being here, they just live off it. So Ratatosk's solution is... reprogram the laws of life so that humans are the only ones who WOULDN'T be killed by a mana shortage. This seems like a generous accommodation for them, and I feel like if Ratatosk has to do that, then the humans should do something in return to show they can change their ways. [[Spoilers:As it happens, they just kill the new World Tree in exactly the same way as they did the Giant Kharlan Tree, with another disastrous war. *sigh*]]
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** Probably. The game's an escort title after all, and Vesperia was being produced at the same time.
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[[WMG: We never meet the other centurions, or even find out what they look like.]]
* Tenebrie and Aqua are the only centurions that actually make an appearance in the story. The other six don't get so much as a cameo. It's not because they're still dormant, because the whole game's about waking them up. And worse, it's not even hand-waved; someone briefly wonders why, but then quickly drops it and it never comes up again. Did the budget run out before they could get to animating and finding voice actors for the rest?
* Tenebrie and Aqua are the only centurions that actually make an appearance in the story. The other six don't get so much as a cameo. It's not because they're still dormant, because the whole game's about waking them up. And worse, it's not even hand-waved; someone briefly wonders why, but then quickly drops it and it never comes up again. Did the budget run out before they could get to animating and finding voice actors for the rest?
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** [[ContinuityLockout Which is to be expected when one plays a sequel first.]]
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** To be fair, [[ContinuityLockout Which the latter is to be expected when one plays a sequel first.]]
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** [[ContinuityLockout Which is to be expected when one plays a sequel first.]]
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***** It's ''not'' [[spoiler:a fake]]. It is indeed [[spoiler:the real thing]]. Towards the end of the game, we're shown that Ratatosk is able to [[spoiler:split into both a body ''and'' a core]]l
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***** It's ''not'' [[spoiler:a fake]]. It is indeed [[spoiler:the real thing]]. Towards the end of the game, we're shown that Ratatosk is able to [[spoiler:split into both a body ''and'' a core]]lcore]]
****Just because he ''can'' doesn't mean he ''did''. What reason would Tenebrae have to lie about that?
****Just because he ''can'' doesn't mean he ''did''. What reason would Tenebrae have to lie about that?
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***** It's ''not'' [[spoiler:a fake]]. It is indeed [[spoiler:the real thing]]. Towards the end of the game, we're shown that Ratatosk is able to [[spoiler:split into both a body ''and'' a core]]l
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[[WMG: The complete lack of introduction of everyone past Regal]]
* Every original cast member introduced after Regal is sort of glossed over with a "(name) what are you doing here? You helped us on our journey of world regeneration!" without a word about who they were in that journey, what their life story is or anything, whereas we were beat over the head with Collette, Raine, Genis, and Regal. Sheena bugged me in particular, seeing as how there was a mention of one of the original party members being a summoner, but then when she does summon very soon after her introduction, there isn't a mention of it anywhere. No one marvels at or explains it. In contrast, Collete had mentioned she had a friend who went into Ruin Mode. Then, when we meet Raine and she flips out at the ruins, there are several conversations about said Mode. Don't get me wrong, they could easily have turned this into irritating {{Continuity Porn}}, but, as an example, without any sort of hint as to the relationship between Regal and Presea or what happened to her in her past, any new player is left completely in the dark as to why she came along in the first place.
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****"The Darkness" ''was'' Tenebrae. He came up with such weird clothes because his fashion sense is a few centuries out of date, or because he's 10,000 years old and hasn't ever had the chance to mess with his master's head before. Probably the later. He obviously enjoys it immensely.
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***Correction: Emil didn't choose his clothes (at least, not at first); "the darkness" did. (Or whatever it was Tenebrae was talking about.) So...the darkness thought it was stylish. Now, why he didn't just change clothes...well, he kept the weird tube-top-coat-thing, didn't he?
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*** Yeah, I think that was it. The whole team knew the name, but because Lloyd was the one who named the tree he got the divine protection of Martel. He could walk around with the cores and not have any adverse effects, but everyone else would lose their minds and possibly let the name of the tree slip in front of the wrong person [[spoiler:(Emil)]], which would allow the power of the tree to be turned over to a ultra-powerful creature who wanted to destroy every human and elf on the planet.
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** It started with Colette thinking he was a dog. After that it was probably just to fuck with him.
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*** Most notably, because he flashes back to this saying and event mere SECONDS after it happens. Several times. It gets really annoying.
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** In the first game, Sheena and Lloyd talk about how one needs Elven blood somewhere in your family tree to even do any kind of magic (and explicitly states that Sheena's ability to Summon means she had an Elven ancestor somewhere way back in her family history). Presumably, Marta does as well.
