History Headscratchers / Supernatural

15th Apr '17 1:43:09 AM DarkCyberWolf
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Why doesnt Dagon just possess kelly kline and just carry the nephillim to term that way?

to:

* Why doesnt Dagon just possess kelly kline and just carry the nephillim to term that way?way?
** I know this is at least partially Buffy logic, but when Darla was pregnant - and the baby had a soul - Darla was temporarily a vampire with a soul because technically a soul was inside her. By similar logic, even if the baby-daddy is Lucifer... Lucifer's still an angel. The baby has angel's grace, and who knows what that will do to a Prince of Hell's system. Plus, according to Dagon, nephilim always, without question, kill the mothers and Dagon probably doesn't want to take the risk.
9th Apr '17 7:13:04 PM Leftywright
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Could be the demons managed to take Adam prisoner after he was resurrected but before the angels got there (like Sam and Dean did when they snagged him after his resurrection).

to:

** Could be the demons managed to take Adam prisoner after he was resurrected but before the angels got there (like Sam and Dean did when they snagged him after his resurrection).resurrection).

*Why doesnt Dagon just possess kelly kline and just carry the nephillim to term that way?
21st Mar '17 12:44:23 PM ellie_is_not_a_demon
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

** Like the point above about people complying, they don't think they have the ability to question it, and often those being questioned are in a fragile state because they've just lost a friend/relative so they don't even think of questioning the 'FBI'.
21st Mar '17 11:52:41 AM ellie_is_not_a_demon
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

** They don't need to rescue him because he was dead before Michael fell into the cage. Think about it, Cas hey assbutted Michael with holy oil in the cemetery, subsequently killing his vessel, Adam. His soul would've gone to heaven so all is fine and dandy.
15th Mar '17 9:55:23 PM Lightning4119
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

** To be fair, Castiel was in Jimmy's head for ''years'' and doesn't understand any of the references the boys make.



* So where exactly is Micheal? Because looking into the cage all we're being shown is Lucifer. Even worse, for some reason no one seems to be willing to bring up the point that he was sealed alongside Lucifer, much less that he even exists. When Sam and Dean are arguing back and forth about Sam going to the cage Lucifer's the only Angel that's ever brought up, as if he's in there alone. This is somewhat frustrating because of the two Micheal certainly seems like the one you'd want to ask for help, being the good to Lucifer's evil (Though he admittedly does have reason to be angry at the Winchester's). Furthermore, as an Archangel, and the older brother to Lucifer, he would have logically been there when the Darkness was sealed away, so isn't it likely that he at least knows just as much about it as Lucifer?

to:


* So where exactly is Micheal? Michael? Because looking into the cage all we're being shown is Lucifer. Even worse, for some reason no one seems to be willing to bring up the point that he was sealed alongside Lucifer, much less that he even exists. When Sam and Dean are arguing back and forth about Sam going to the cage Lucifer's the only Angel that's ever brought up, as if he's in there alone. This is somewhat frustrating because of the two Micheal certainly seems like the one you'd want to ask for help, being the good to Lucifer's evil (Though he admittedly does have reason to be angry at the Winchester's). Furthermore, as an Archangel, and the older brother to Lucifer, he would have logically been there when the Darkness was sealed away, so isn't it likely that he at least knows just as much about it as Lucifer?



** [[spoiler: I don't think there's ever been any indication that Death himself, or even reapers, are required for people to die. Same as War, Famine and Pestilance being gone doesn't mean their namesakes no longer occur. Named characters die and pass on to their various afterlives without any interference by Death or reapers. Adam is ferried up to Heaven and back down again by Zachariah. When Bobby dies, ends up in Hell, comes back as a ghost, and is eventually killed for real by the brothers burning his flask, Death is no where to be seen. At best, Death was implied to be an incredibly powerful being with the ability to control the fate of any "living" being; at worst he's a [[BadassInANiceSuit dude in a cool suit]] with unspecified powers. Besides, the whole "reapers are actually angels" BS makes reapers totally redundant. So as for how Dean was capable of doing the deed? Either it's a reverse WorfEffect (simply to show how powerful post-Mark of Cain!Dean is) or Death was never actually that powerful in the first place.]]

to:

** [[spoiler: I don't think there's ever been any indication that Death himself, or even reapers, are required for people to die. Same as War, Famine and Pestilance Pestilence being gone doesn't mean their namesakes no longer occur. Named characters die and pass on to their various afterlives without any interference by Death or reapers. Adam is ferried up to Heaven and back down again by Zachariah. When Bobby dies, ends up in Hell, comes back as a ghost, and is eventually killed for real by the brothers burning his flask, Death is no where to be seen. At best, Death was implied to be an incredibly powerful being with the ability to control the fate of any "living" being; at worst he's a [[BadassInANiceSuit dude in a cool suit]] with unspecified powers. Besides, the whole "reapers are actually angels" BS makes reapers totally redundant. So as for how Dean was capable of doing the deed? Either it's a reverse WorfEffect (simply to show how powerful post-Mark of Cain!Dean is) or Death was never actually that powerful in the first place.]]



* How can Castiel say 'yes' to Lucifer? He's not a vessel, he 'needs' a vessel. Jimmy. Now fannon suggests that at some point Jimmy's soul was allowed to pass on and Castiel got to keep the body because reasons. Which leaves us with a lot of issues. Like what happened to Cas? He should just go out and find another person willing to say let him take over. Jimmy not being Sam (or at least a Winchester since clearly Adam was good enough for Micheal and it was implied that John managed to house Micheal as well without damage) should start deteriorating quickly with Lucifer inside. The entire season 5 plot was about how Lucifer specifically needed Sam and not just a random Meat Suit. So even if he could beat the Darkness all Amara has to do is dodge Lucifer for in an absolute worst case scenerio for her however long it takes him to burn through every man, woman and child on Earth. And that's assuming she can't take Lucifer in a fair fight which as Sam points out seems unlikely.

to:


* How can Castiel say 'yes' to Lucifer? He's not a vessel, he 'needs' a vessel. Jimmy. Now fannon fanon suggests that at some point Jimmy's soul was allowed to pass on and Castiel got to keep the body because reasons. Which leaves us with a lot of issues. Like what happened to Cas? He should just go out and find another person willing to say let him take over. Jimmy not being Sam (or at least a Winchester since clearly Adam was good enough for Micheal Michael and it was implied that John managed to house Micheal as well without damage) should start deteriorating quickly with Lucifer inside. The entire season 5 plot was about how Lucifer specifically needed Sam and not just a random Meat Suit. So even if he could beat the Darkness all Amara has to do is dodge Lucifer for in an absolute worst case scenerio scenario for her however long it takes him to burn through every man, woman and child on Earth. And that's assuming she can't take Lucifer in a fair fight which as Sam points out seems unlikely.















** The Doylist reason is the hunters would be overwhelmed in a week if demons, vampires, and other assorted nasties did the intelligent thing. The Watsonian reason? Demons are dumb. Really, ''really'' dumb. To the point that they repeatedly walk into devil's traps and fail to just pick up Sam or Dean and snap their necks in favor of tossing them across the room.



** At a guess, the writers either forgot about them (as they did Adam) or are refusing to address the issue to leave them available for later use. Presumably they stashed them someplace "safe" like they did Death's ring before Dean returned it.







to:

** 1. Presumably Zachariah, being the face of the angel dickery. 2. Alternate vessels for Lucifer, breaking the seals, some part of a future "leading demon armies" idea that never came to pass when the Apocalypse got derailed, or just generally causing chaos. Demons are supposed to get off on that, apparently.






** Considering that Crowley can do whatever he wants and the boys apparently have no intention of just shanking him like they should have years ago, he probably wasn't worried. And knowing Crowley, it could very well have been a trap.






** Time was stated back in S4 to go faster in Hell, that Dean was down there for a few decades. The Cage originally was a separate dimension from Hell so that is irrelevant though presumably Micheal and Lucifer were in charge there. In theory Crowley might actually be popping in and out at speeds we can't perceive or Hell runs itself to a large degree. In reality if the president of the United States vanished we could go on for quite a while without it effecting the average person. But really the plot just forgets at times.

to:

** Time was stated back in S4 to go faster in Hell, that Dean was down there for a few decades. The Cage originally was a separate dimension from Hell so that is irrelevant though presumably Micheal Michael and Lucifer were in charge there. In theory Crowley might actually be popping in and out at speeds we can't perceive or Hell runs itself to a large degree. In reality if the president of the United States vanished we could go on for quite a while without it effecting the average person. But really the plot just forgets at times.times.



* Why in the future where Sam says yes to Lucifer, but Dean says no to Michael and leads that survivor group, did the angels not use Adam as a vessel, Lucifer was already using Sam, and Dean wouldn't give his consent to Michael. In the future did the angels not know about Adam or what?

to:

** What do you think they're going to roll out as the BigBad for the next couple seasons?

* Why in the future where Sam says yes to Lucifer, but Dean says no to Michael and leads that survivor group, did the angels not use Adam as a vessel, Lucifer was already using Sam, and Dean wouldn't give his consent to Michael. In the future did the angels not know about Adam or what?what?
** Could be the demons managed to take Adam prisoner after he was resurrected but before the angels got there (like Sam and Dean did when they snagged him after his resurrection).
13th Mar '17 8:09:52 PM DarkCyberWolf
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Goofer dust also keeps out hellhounds. Same can't be said of salt.
11th Mar '17 6:52:43 PM XenophilicPoultry
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Okay I know this this posted above but with the Colt reappearing and taking what appears to be a high place in the weapons category we need to go back to what it can't kill and how "things" is defined. We know it can't kill Lucifer because we tried that. So was Lucifer a special Archangel or is Archangels one of the things it won't kill? Because presumably God, Amara and Death are three things it can't kill. But with Micheal, Raph, and Lucifer we're at six. But if God and Amara are one (presumably being the same whatever deity class) and the Archangels are one we're down to three leaving two slots open for what it can't kill.

to:

* Okay I know this this posted above but with the Colt reappearing and taking what appears to be a high place in the weapons category we need to go back to what it can't kill and how "things" is defined. We know it can't kill Lucifer because we tried that. So was Lucifer a special Archangel or is Archangels one of the things it won't kill? Because presumably God, Amara and Death are three things it can't kill. But with Micheal, Raph, and Lucifer we're at six. But if God and Amara are one (presumably being the same whatever deity class) and the Archangels are one we're down to three leaving two slots open for what it can't kill.kill.
* Why in the future where Sam says yes to Lucifer, but Dean says no to Michael and leads that survivor group, did the angels not use Adam as a vessel, Lucifer was already using Sam, and Dean wouldn't give his consent to Michael. In the future did the angels not know about Adam or what?
17th Feb '17 11:32:33 AM SeanRenaud
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Does time actually pass faster in Hell than on Earth? It's been stated that Dean was tortured for years when he was in Hell, the same for his father. It seems to be a common assumption that time passes faster in Hell than on Earth in general. However, this never really seems to be clearly depicted elsewhere. When Bobby got out of Hell he didn't seem to act like decades had passed since he'd been gone. While people talked about Sam being tortured in the cage, I don't recall them mentioning it being for centuries. Demons who've gone to Hell and returned never act like centuries have passed since they were on Earth. No one ever comments on the fact that, with Crowley spending so much time on Earth, Hell effectively has an absentee leader for years at a time. Crowley has even been seen talking on the phone while in Hell (in "The Devil in the Details") to Earth which at least implies that time is passing at the same rate for people on both ends of the call. So is time actually sped up in Hell generally or is it just that time is fluid in Hell and can be sped up for particular reasons (like if you want to torture someone to break them more quickly) but normally time passes as the same rate as on Earth?

to:

* Does time actually pass faster in Hell than on Earth? It's been stated that Dean was tortured for years when he was in Hell, the same for his father. It seems to be a common assumption that time passes faster in Hell than on Earth in general. However, this never really seems to be clearly depicted elsewhere. When Bobby got out of Hell he didn't seem to act like decades had passed since he'd been gone. While people talked about Sam being tortured in the cage, I don't recall them mentioning it being for centuries. Demons who've gone to Hell and returned never act like centuries have passed since they were on Earth. No one ever comments on the fact that, with Crowley spending so much time on Earth, Hell effectively has an absentee leader for years at a time. Crowley has even been seen talking on the phone while in Hell (in "The Devil in the Details") to Earth which at least implies that time is passing at the same rate for people on both ends of the call. So is time actually sped up in Hell generally or is it just that time is fluid in Hell and can be sped up for particular reasons (like if you want to torture someone to break them more quickly) but normally time passes as the same rate as on Earth?Earth?
** Time was stated back in S4 to go faster in Hell, that Dean was down there for a few decades. The Cage originally was a separate dimension from Hell so that is irrelevant though presumably Micheal and Lucifer were in charge there. In theory Crowley might actually be popping in and out at speeds we can't perceive or Hell runs itself to a large degree. In reality if the president of the United States vanished we could go on for quite a while without it effecting the average person. But really the plot just forgets at times.
*Okay I know this this posted above but with the Colt reappearing and taking what appears to be a high place in the weapons category we need to go back to what it can't kill and how "things" is defined. We know it can't kill Lucifer because we tried that. So was Lucifer a special Archangel or is Archangels one of the things it won't kill? Because presumably God, Amara and Death are three things it can't kill. But with Micheal, Raph, and Lucifer we're at six. But if God and Amara are one (presumably being the same whatever deity class) and the Archangels are one we're down to three leaving two slots open for what it can't kill.
24th Jan '17 9:29:41 PM thee_maxx
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* What's the point of goofer dust? It keeps out demons, which salt also does but is much, much more easily acquired. Made even weirder by the fact that salt is an ingredient.
25th Nov '16 10:22:55 AM allfictions
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** They did mention the Flood before though. It was what Death did when it walked the Earth before being imprisoned.
This list shows the last 10 events of 1054. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.Supernatural