History Headscratchers / Supernatural

25th Nov '16 10:22:55 AM allfictions
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*** They did mention the Flood before though. It was what Death did when it walked the Earth before being imprisoned.
4th Nov '16 6:20:15 PM ApeAccount
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** Either way, the point is even if we assume that the Men of Letters get notified and even if we assume that the Men of Letters are just that good that they can stop any demon they encounter without a single death (unlikely given we've already seen one killed by a human), a halfway competent demon could easily commit a small massacre long before the Men Of Letters could show up. So this does support the idea that their definition of monster probably doesn't mean "supernatural being" and that their "no monster deaths" is far from what a hunter would consider a perfect record.

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** Either way, the point is even if we assume that the Men of Letters get notified and even if we assume that the Men of Letters are just that good that they can stop any demon they encounter without a single death (unlikely given we've already seen one killed by a human), a halfway competent demon could easily commit a small massacre long before the Men Of Letters could show up. So this does support the idea that their definition of monster probably doesn't mean "supernatural being" and that their "no monster deaths" is far from what a hunter would consider a perfect record.record.
* Does time actually pass faster in Hell than on Earth? It's been stated that Dean was tortured for years when he was in Hell, the same for his father. It seems to be a common assumption that time passes faster in Hell than on Earth in general. However, this never really seems to be clearly depicted elsewhere. When Bobby got out of Hell he didn't seem to act like decades had passed since he'd been gone. While people talked about Sam being tortured in the cage, I don't recall them mentioning it being for centuries. Demons who've gone to Hell and returned never act like centuries have passed since they were on Earth. No one ever comments on the fact that, with Crowley spending so much time on Earth, Hell effectively has an absentee leader for years at a time. Crowley has even been seen talking on the phone while in Hell (in "The Devil in the Details") to Earth which at least implies that time is passing at the same rate for people on both ends of the call. So is time actually sped up in Hell generally or is it just that time is fluid in Hell and can be sped up for particular reasons (like if you want to torture someone to break them more quickly) but normally time passes as the same rate as on Earth?
29th Oct '16 9:25:06 PM ApeAccount
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** Crowley was in Scotland for about maybe 10 minutes at most, and the area looked vaguely highlandish, remember, MoL weren't conceived yet, but in canon, they probably did get the alarm (sigil?) a demon was in Scotland,but was gone by the time they got there, or maybe demons because of their, here one moment, gone the next teleporting, they can bypass the little sigils, remember Toni said they had Sigils in every ENTRANCE to Britain, Demons just pop in and out, no need to take a ship or a train or plane, like other monsters, so I think they attibute their "perfect" record to monsters, not demons.

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** Crowley was in Scotland for about maybe 10 minutes at most, and the area looked vaguely highlandish, remember, MoL weren't conceived yet, but in canon, they probably did get the alarm (sigil?) a demon was in Scotland,but was gone by the time they got there, or maybe demons because of their, here one moment, gone the next teleporting, they can bypass the little sigils, remember Toni said they had Sigils in every ENTRANCE to Britain, Demons just pop in and out, no need to take a ship or a train or plane, like other monsters, so I think they attibute their "perfect" record to monsters, not demons.demons.
** Either way, the point is even if we assume that the Men of Letters get notified and even if we assume that the Men of Letters are just that good that they can stop any demon they encounter without a single death (unlikely given we've already seen one killed by a human), a halfway competent demon could easily commit a small massacre long before the Men Of Letters could show up. So this does support the idea that their definition of monster probably doesn't mean "supernatural being" and that their "no monster deaths" is far from what a hunter would consider a perfect record.
28th Oct '16 6:22:20 PM finalfaw
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** Crowley was in Scotland for about maybe 10 minutes at most, and the area looked vaguely highlandish, remember, MoL weren't conceived yet, but in canon, they probably did get the alarm (sigil?) a demon was in Scotland,but was gone by the time they got there, or maybe demons because of their, here one moment, gone the next teleporting, they can bypass the little sigils, remember Toni said they had Sigils in every ENTRANCE to

to:

** Crowley was in Scotland for about maybe 10 minutes at most, and the area looked vaguely highlandish, remember, MoL weren't conceived yet, but in canon, they probably did get the alarm (sigil?) a demon was in Scotland,but was gone by the time they got there, or maybe demons because of their, here one moment, gone the next teleporting, they can bypass the little sigils, remember Toni said they had Sigils in every ENTRANCE toto Britain, Demons just pop in and out, no need to take a ship or a train or plane, like other monsters, so I think they attibute their "perfect" record to monsters, not demons.
28th Oct '16 6:19:21 PM finalfaw
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* What are reapers? Originally they seemed to be a distinct species/race presumably descended from Death himself who at the time was touted as God's equal. At least he claimed he would reap God when the time came and that neither of them could remember who was eldest. Amara makes no mention of a third and in fact much of her conversations about God seem to confirm that God created the Universe essentially because he was lonely. Later Reapers were revealed to be a job type for angels, similar to a Cupid. Now we've got Billie who doesn't seem to be just another angel who stepped up. For starters at this point an angel threatening Sam and Dean would need a bit of swagger to not simply get told off by Cas but when the S10 finale hits she comes through with a couple hundred thousand souls that apparently Cas didn't have access to and God seemed to not even know about. [[spoiler: In God's defense he was at death's door and possibly not thinking clearly.]]

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* What are reapers? Originally they seemed to be a distinct species/race presumably descended from Death himself who at the time was touted as God's equal. At least he claimed he would reap God when the time came and that neither of them could remember who was eldest. Amara makes no mention of a third and in fact much of her conversations about God seem to confirm that God created the Universe essentially because he was lonely. Later Reapers were revealed to be a job type for angels, similar to a Cupid. Now we've got Billie who doesn't seem to be just another angel who stepped up. For starters at this point an angel threatening Sam and Dean would need a bit of swagger to not simply get told off by Cas but when the S10 S11 finale hits she comes through with a couple hundred thousand souls that apparently Cas didn't have access to and God seemed to not even know about. [[spoiler: In God's defense he was at death's door and possibly not thinking clearly.]]
** remember that even God didn't mention Death that much, its clear Death and God know each other, Death probably demanded that God make him a few helpers, so God used the blueprint he knew, Angels, so Reapers are Angels in design with all the same powers and abilities but with the added ability to reap souls. also originally they were just an aspect of Death, but after the rewrite after s3, they introduced angels and basically (stupidly) retconned Reapers as a subtype of angel.



** It's possible their claims were exaggerated or at least only "technically true" by using a certain definition of "monster". I suggested this point on the WMG page that maybe demons (and hell hounds) aren't in the definition. We've seen Crowley teleport into Scotland (Weekend at Bobby's) so clearly a Crossroad Demon could enter the UK and kill people without the Men of Letters stopping them. I also suggest that witches and ghosts might not be (since people can become witches and ghosts while inside the country, meaning there's no way to detect them at airports and the docks which was mentioned was part of their strategy). So maybe "monster" for their definition only includes things like vampire, werewolves and shapeshifters. Perhaps restricting the definition of monsters allows them to keep their "perfect" record.

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** It's possible their claims were exaggerated or at least only "technically true" by using a certain definition of "monster". I suggested this point on the WMG page that maybe demons (and hell hounds) aren't in the definition. We've seen Crowley teleport into Scotland (Weekend at Bobby's) so clearly a Crossroad Demon could enter the UK and kill people without the Men of Letters stopping them. I also suggest that witches and ghosts might not be (since people can become witches and ghosts while inside the country, meaning there's no way to detect them at airports and the docks which was mentioned was part of their strategy). So maybe "monster" for their definition only includes things like vampire, werewolves and shapeshifters. Perhaps restricting the definition of monsters allows them to keep their "perfect" record.record.
** Crowley was in Scotland for about maybe 10 minutes at most, and the area looked vaguely highlandish, remember, MoL weren't conceived yet, but in canon, they probably did get the alarm (sigil?) a demon was in Scotland,but was gone by the time they got there, or maybe demons because of their, here one moment, gone the next teleporting, they can bypass the little sigils, remember Toni said they had Sigils in every ENTRANCE to
28th Oct '16 5:17:16 PM finalfaw
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** Lucifer and Michael are the oldest brothers, Lucifer is in his Samifer mode, Micheal is in Adam, while not Dean (none of the dramatic irony) still a true vessel, which means both are insanely powerful, only four things are stronger than they are, as for the fight, they were going to go all out, think Goku v Frieza levels of power, both are GenreSavvy enough to not go near each other or stabbyness happens, so they will go for the long range, Micheal will probably call down the strongest Laser death cannon that is smiting he can, Lucifer will probably call on all the demons he can (what Crowley did to Amara) Cas could at his strength wipe out a diner with a hand blast, imagine what two archangels can do (I reckon at least nuke a city on their own with one, also during the fight demons and angels would just simply break the masqurade, and start fighting each other, mosters will notice and either hunker down or use this fight to go "fuck it" and start attacking people in broad daylight, remember most monsters require very specific means to be killed, the implications of the prize fight is that it will cause global chaos by everything supernatural just dropping every pretense of civility due to the world ending.
28th Oct '16 4:36:17 PM finalfaw
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** Leviathans' are, in SPN, purely physical creatures, they have no soul, hence why etheral attacks like ghosts and magic hurt them, you can't fight something you have never encountered, like ever, its like if i attacked you with a weapon you didn't know was a weapon. side note: was anyone else concerned that purgatory wasn't monster hell at first, but then monsters started to go there, essentially god decided to feed monsters to the Leviathan, side side note: oh no Garth is going there when he dies!
28th Oct '16 4:09:40 PM finalfaw
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*** Ghosts change ALOT over time, my personal theory (backed up by weekend at bobbys) is that Demons themselves are just Jacked up ghosts, you will notice that alot of the powers ghosts have are very similar to what demons can do, so I reckon that most of the ghosts the boys encounter are demi-demonic, hell refines it and quickens it whereas in order for a ghost to naturally become demonic takes much much longer, souls seem to just get worse and worse the longer they are out of the body, but 40 years helltime is probably a light spanking.
28th Oct '16 3:56:04 PM finalfaw
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** Also considering that what they most look for comes across as "weird crap" like locked room deaths, various organs/limbs missing or weirdly injured, that stuff tends to make the news and most towns keep them as a kind of tourism thing, hell, my town actually has a plate in the middle of a crossroads to mark the spot they burned witches.
23rd Oct '16 5:22:10 AM ApeAccount
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*** I'm not denying that most demon's didn't care about it and that there are plenty of reasons for it to be left alone. The question is simply why it would be claimed to be that much of an obstacle that it would need the equivalent of a nuke to break through. You only need to break part of a devil's trap to render it ineffective and given the trap is still just made of iron standard explosives would be enough. In equivalent terms, that's a lot less powerful than a human soul or a nuke.



* According to Keep Calm and Carry On, there hasn't been a single monster-related death in the U.K. since 1965. Thing is, that's far more than ten years before the series began, when Bela's parents were killed by a Deal.

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* According to Keep Calm and Carry On, there hasn't been a single monster-related death in the U.K. since 1965. Thing is, that's far more than ten years before the series began, when Bela's parents were killed by a Deal.Deal.
** It's possible their claims were exaggerated or at least only "technically true" by using a certain definition of "monster". I suggested this point on the WMG page that maybe demons (and hell hounds) aren't in the definition. We've seen Crowley teleport into Scotland (Weekend at Bobby's) so clearly a Crossroad Demon could enter the UK and kill people without the Men of Letters stopping them. I also suggest that witches and ghosts might not be (since people can become witches and ghosts while inside the country, meaning there's no way to detect them at airports and the docks which was mentioned was part of their strategy). So maybe "monster" for their definition only includes things like vampire, werewolves and shapeshifters. Perhaps restricting the definition of monsters allows them to keep their "perfect" record.
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