History Headscratchers / Supernatural

24th Nov '17 1:14:24 AM Peeve
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** Good point. Some speculation...maybe God can only recreate these beings, not technically bring them back. That would suggest Castiel would exist in [[spoiler:The Empty]] in multiple forms with a new version being recreated each time he's brought back and one existing there. Alternatively, it may have something to do with the passage of time. [[spoiler:Angels and demons may not arrive there immediately (though not being conscious they wouldn't realise it). There may be a window, not necessarily using time as we understand it, within which God can retrieve them. It's only once someone ends up in The Empty that they become impossible to resurrect.]]

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** Good point. Some speculation...maybe God can only recreate these beings, not technically bring them back. That would suggest Castiel would exist in [[spoiler:The Empty]] in multiple forms with a new version being recreated each time he's brought back and one existing there. Alternatively, it may have something to do with the passage of time. [[spoiler:Angels and demons may not arrive there immediately (though not being conscious they wouldn't realise realize it). There may be a window, not necessarily using time as we understand it, within which God can retrieve them. It's only once someone ends up in The Empty that they become impossible to resurrect.]]
*** OP here. If God's [[spoiler:resurrections]] turn out to have actually been [[spoiler:recreations of identical clones]] all along, [[FridgeHorror it would pop open a whole 6-pack of cans filled with horrifying implications.
]] As for the time aspect, it would be illogical for Castiel to have even arrived in [[spoiler:The Big Empty]] yet seeing as God was prepared to [[spoiler:resurrect an archangel who's been dead of almost a decade]] if only he'd had the right materials. If the latter isn't there to be out of reach yet then the former shouldn't be either.
21st Nov '17 11:21:15 PM ApeAccount
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to:

** Good point. Some speculation...maybe God can only recreate these beings, not technically bring them back. That would suggest Castiel would exist in [[spoiler:The Empty]] in multiple forms with a new version being recreated each time he's brought back and one existing there. Alternatively, it may have something to do with the passage of time. [[spoiler:Angels and demons may not arrive there immediately (though not being conscious they wouldn't realise it). There may be a window, not necessarily using time as we understand it, within which God can retrieve them. It's only once someone ends up in The Empty that they become impossible to resurrect.]]



* Also from season 13 episode 5, [[spoiler:the new Death tells Dean that she - as Death - can now see the "bigger picture" and that Sam & Dean really have something in the universe that they must still do. If this is true then why did the previous Death want them dead, even going so far as to make deals with them in exchange for making it happen? He too should've known that they have yet to do these things that even Death wants done.]]

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* Also from season 13 episode 5, [[spoiler:the new Death tells Dean that she - as Death - can now see the "bigger picture" and that Sam & Dean really have something in the universe that they must still do. If this is true then why did the previous Death want them dead, even going so far as to make deals with them in exchange for making it happen? He too should've known that they have yet to do these things that even Death wants done.]]
** [[spoiler: Being able to see the bigger picture doesn't necessarily mean having the same perspective on it. She may be Death now but the old Death was still a different being with different opinions. He may have known about their role in the cosmic fabric and still believed the universe was better off without them. It may be like the apocalypse when they both had a role to fulfil and yet, if necessary, Adam could act as a stand-in. No one was irreplaceable. Perhaps the previous Death believed that it was better to eliminate them and allow someone else to take their place. Having lived as long as he had, his perspective could only be wider.
]]
10th Nov '17 3:09:05 PM Peeve
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* If The Darkness existed before Chuck, and is stronger than him, why would killing her mean the death of chuck and vice versa? Her existing before Chuck implies that she, at one point, was not apart of a Cosmic Keystone-esque relationship and thus was not reliant on keeping her 'brother' alive. If the darkness cannot exist without the light then would not both be equal in age and if both are supposedly a "yin-yang" like cosmic relationship, would not they be both equal in power and strength?

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* If The Darkness existed before Chuck, and is stronger than him, why would killing her mean the death of chuck and vice versa? Her existing before Chuck implies that she, at one point, was not apart a part of a Cosmic Keystone-esque relationship and thus was not reliant on keeping her 'brother' alive. If the darkness cannot exist without the light then would not both be equal in age and if both are supposedly a "yin-yang" like cosmic relationship, would not they be both equal in power and strength?
** The Darkness may not necessarily have started out needing God. It's entirely possible that they only became bound together when God came to be, or perhaps later during their "time" together as the only things in existence. [[MindScrew God may even have come into being specifically because he needed to exist but didn't.]] On the topic of their power comparisons, Amara was said to embody "destruction" while God embodies "Creation." It's likely not that he's weaker than her, it's just that Amara's powers are innately offensive while God's are creative. She can "destroy" him but he can't exactly "create" her into nothing.
10th Nov '17 2:41:51 PM Peeve
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* Also from season 13 episode 5, [[spoiler:the new Death tells Dean that she - as Death - can now see the "bigger picture" and that Sam & Dean really have something in the universe that they must still do.
If this is true then why did the previous Death want them dead, even going so far as to make deals with them in exchange for making it happen? He too should've known that they have yet to do these things that even Death wants done.]]

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* Also from season 13 episode 5, [[spoiler:the new Death tells Dean that she - as Death - can now see the "bigger picture" and that Sam & Dean really have something in the universe that they must still do.
do. If this is true then why did the previous Death want them dead, even going so far as to make deals with them in exchange for making it happen? He too should've known that they have yet to do these things that even Death wants done.]]
10th Nov '17 2:39:31 PM Peeve
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* In season 13 episode 5, [[spoiler: Billie the Reaper returns, now having become the actual incarnation of Death in the Supernatural universe. If this is true, how and why was she doing Death's work and having way too much power for just a reaper before she actually gained them? She says the first reaper to die after Death becomes the new Death, but way before that she whipped up millions of souls in the palm of her hand with a snap of her fingers in season 11, something well beyond what a reaper should be able to do. Such a feat of power would logically have made her a danger even to an Archangel, but apparently she was just a normal reaper at the time? She wasn't actually Death's replacement at the time, so why and how was she so powerful?]]

to:

* In season 13 episode 5, [[spoiler: Billie the Reaper returns, now having become the actual incarnation of Death in the Supernatural universe. If this is true, how and why was she doing Death's work and having way too much power for just a reaper before she actually gained them? She says the first reaper to die after Death becomes the new Death, but way before that she whipped up millions of souls in the palm of her hand with a snap of her fingers in season 11, something well beyond what a reaper should be able to do. Such a feat of power would logically have made her a danger even to an Archangel, but apparently she was just a normal reaper at the time? She wasn't actually Death's replacement at the time, back then, so why and how was she so powerful?]]powerful?]]

* Also from season 13 episode 5, [[spoiler:the new Death tells Dean that she - as Death - can now see the "bigger picture" and that Sam & Dean really have something in the universe that they must still do.
If this is true then why did the previous Death want them dead, even going so far as to make deals with them in exchange for making it happen? He too should've known that they have yet to do these things that even Death wants done.]]
10th Nov '17 12:53:45 PM Peeve
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* If The Darkness existed before Chuck, and is stronger than him, why would killing her mean the death of chuck and vice versa? Her existing before Chuck implies that she, at one point, was not apart of a Cosmic Keystone-esque relationship and thus was not reliant on keeping her 'brother' alive. If the darkness cannot exist without the light then would not both be equal in age and if both are supposedly a "yin-yang" like cosmic relationship, would not they be both equal in power and strength?

to:

* If The Darkness existed before Chuck, and is stronger than him, why would killing her mean the death of chuck and vice versa? Her existing before Chuck implies that she, at one point, was not apart of a Cosmic Keystone-esque relationship and thus was not reliant on keeping her 'brother' alive. If the darkness cannot exist without the light then would not both be equal in age and if both are supposedly a "yin-yang" like cosmic relationship, would not they be both equal in power and strength?strength?

* In season 13 episode 4, [[spoiler:we find out from what appears to be the personification of The Big Empty that it's where everything that dies goes if it doesn't have a mortal soul. Unlike humans and monsters who go to heaven or hell or purgatory, angels and demons go to The Big Empty and "slumber" dreamlessly forever.]] Okay, that does make sense. But then it says that nothing, not even God, [[spoiler:can bring back something from The Big Empty.]] This claim is impossible. God has brought back Castiel multiple times with apparently little trouble, and in season 11 He strongly implies that all He'd need to revive even an Archangel is the right materials. God very clearly can do what [[spoiler: The Big Empty]] claims He can't, and since it's [[spoiler:read all of Castiel's memories]], it definitely knows of the above incidents. Why would it claim something that both it, Castiel and the audience knows for a fact isn't correct?

* In season 13 episode 5, [[spoiler: Billie the Reaper returns, now having become the actual incarnation of Death in the Supernatural universe. If this is true, how and why was she doing Death's work and having way too much power for just a reaper before she actually gained them? She says the first reaper to die after Death becomes the new Death, but way before that she whipped up millions of souls in the palm of her hand with a snap of her fingers in season 11, something well beyond what a reaper should be able to do. Such a feat of power would logically have made her a danger even to an Archangel, but apparently she was just a normal reaper at the time? She wasn't actually Death's replacement at the time, so why and how was she so powerful?]]
16th Oct '17 10:13:59 PM Xzinic
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* If The Darkness existed before Chuck, and is stronger than him, why would killing her mean the death of chuck and vice versa? Her existing before Chuck implies that she, at one point, was not apart of a Cosmic Keystone-esque relationship and thus was not reliant on keeping her 'brother' alive. If the darkness cannot exist without the light than would not both be equal in age and if both are supposedly a "yin-yang" like cosmic relationship, would not they be both equal in power and strength?

to:

* If The Darkness existed before Chuck, and is stronger than him, why would killing her mean the death of chuck and vice versa? Her existing before Chuck implies that she, at one point, was not apart of a Cosmic Keystone-esque relationship and thus was not reliant on keeping her 'brother' alive. If the darkness cannot exist without the light than then would not both be equal in age and if both are supposedly a "yin-yang" like cosmic relationship, would not they be both equal in power and strength?
16th Oct '17 10:12:33 PM Xzinic
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** I don't believe it was ever stated explicitly. Castiel at the very least didn't know about her. His response upon learning who she was was, "She's the offspring of an angel and a human? I thought that wasn't allowed" which confirmed it was definitely against the rules. When Metatron called her an abomination, Castiel didn't disagree that she was (merely saying it wasn't her fault). It's probable that if the angels knew about her, they would have done something about her. The fact that they did nothing suggests they most likely didn't know about her (Metatron being an exception since he had access to a lot of secrets the rest of heaven didn't and was willing to hold on to them/use them for his own ends). Angels have hidden on Earth/deceived heaven before so it's not unreasonable to think a nephilim could have.

to:

** I don't believe it was ever stated explicitly. Castiel at the very least didn't know about her. His response upon learning who she was was, "She's the offspring of an angel and a human? I thought that wasn't allowed" which confirmed it was definitely against the rules. When Metatron called her an abomination, Castiel didn't disagree that she was (merely saying it wasn't her fault). It's probable that if the angels knew about her, they would have done something about her. The fact that they did nothing suggests they most likely didn't know about her (Metatron being an exception since he had access to a lot of secrets the rest of heaven didn't and was willing to hold on to them/use them for his own ends). Angels have hidden on Earth/deceived heaven before so it's not unreasonable to think a nephilim could have.have.

*If The Darkness existed before Chuck, and is stronger than him, why would killing her mean the death of chuck and vice versa? Her existing before Chuck implies that she, at one point, was not apart of a Cosmic Keystone-esque relationship and thus was not reliant on keeping her 'brother' alive. If the darkness cannot exist without the light than would not both be equal in age and if both are supposedly a "yin-yang" like cosmic relationship, would not they be both equal in power and strength?
24th Sep '17 3:30:06 AM ApeAccount
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* Season 12 in general, most notably the episode "Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets", make it very clear that nephilim are considered to be a very serious and dangerous threat to the cosmos, such that even a rumor of one of them being conceived is enough to justify an angelic kill squad being dispatched to Earth. With that in mind, has there been any in-universe explanation for why Jane, the nephilim from "Clip Show", was basically ignored by Heaven until Castile and Metatron needed her?

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* Season 12 in general, most notably the episode "Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets", make it very clear that nephilim are considered to be a very serious and dangerous threat to the cosmos, such that even a rumor of one of them being conceived is enough to justify an angelic kill squad being dispatched to Earth. With that in mind, has there been any in-universe explanation for why Jane, the nephilim from "Clip Show", was basically ignored by Heaven until Castile and Metatron needed her?her?
** I don't believe it was ever stated explicitly. Castiel at the very least didn't know about her. His response upon learning who she was was, "She's the offspring of an angel and a human? I thought that wasn't allowed" which confirmed it was definitely against the rules. When Metatron called her an abomination, Castiel didn't disagree that she was (merely saying it wasn't her fault). It's probable that if the angels knew about her, they would have done something about her. The fact that they did nothing suggests they most likely didn't know about her (Metatron being an exception since he had access to a lot of secrets the rest of heaven didn't and was willing to hold on to them/use them for his own ends). Angels have hidden on Earth/deceived heaven before so it's not unreasonable to think a nephilim could have.
11th Sep '17 9:19:55 PM daria2weird
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to:

**Except, the following season, Death specifically asked Dean whose soul he wanted him to retrieve from the cage -Sam's or Adam's. So, Adam is there as of Season 6 and likely still possessed by Michael.
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