History Headscratchers / SupermanRedSon

** the law of conservation of detail precludes it. Superman and pyotr both have places in the larger plot (and resonant characterizations), it does't make sense to introduce a dead-end spare challenger out of a sense of realism. Also introducing more of the bureaucracy would undermine the idea that Superman is the entire government, so you'd then have to prop that idea up with extraneous scenes of Superman telling the bureaucrats what to do. Best for the details of governance to occur offscreen.

* On our first introduction to Brainiac, Luthor grumbles that he was supposed to shrink Moscow, not Stalingrad. Does this mean Luthor expected Brainiac to shrink Superman, and Brainiac refrained, so he could use Superman as a tool later on? How powerful would a shrunken Superman be?

*** Sort of: Soviet!Batman was right that Superman cared more about the cause than he cared about her, but he was wrong in thinking Superman was a NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist who was only in it for the power - he actually was willing to sacrifice Diana because UtopiaJustifesTheMeans. But the events convince Diana that Soviet!Batman was correct and Superman is "just as dangerous and power-obsessed as any other male". She claims to have learned that Superman has only "apparent sincerity" - which is what Soviet!Batman incorrectly believes.

* First Brainiac blows up the bottled city of Stalingrad, then he has the gumption to "urge" Superman to "reconsider" letting go of his utopian dream!? What was going through his electronic brain before he decided to do these things!? Was he being serious or was it a smug taunt coming from an alien being so sure of his own superiority!?

*** Sort of: Soviet!Batman was right that Superman cared more about the cause than he cared about her, but he was wrong in thinking Superman was a NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist who was only in it for the power - he actually was willing to sacrifice Diana because UtopiaJustifesTheMeans. But the events convince Diana that Soviet!Batman was correct and Superman is "just as dangerous and power-obsessed as any other male".

* First Brainiac blows up the bottled city of Stalingrad, then he has the gumption to "urge" Superman to "reconsider" letting go of his utopian dream!? What was going through his electronic brain before he decided to do these things!? Was he being serious or was it a smug taunt coming from an alien being so sure of own superiority!?

* First Brainiac blows up the bottled city of Stalingrad, then he has the gumption to "urge" Superman to "reconsider" letting go of his utopian dream!? What was going through his electronic brain before he decided to do these things!? Was he being serious or was it smug taunt coming from an alien being so sure of own superiority!?

** Superman is incredibly powerful and not afraid to use that incredible power to do what he wants regardless of the political consequences, while also ranting about the capitalistic media lying to American people and the tyranny of the corrupt American government. America gets scared of a God flying around smashing stuff while ranting about what is basically an oversimplified conspiracy theory and in that fear lashes out.

** Two possibilities: First, the GL rings don't work the same in the Red Son universe. We see that in this world, Krypton [[spoiler: is actually future Earth]], which shows that this universe is fundamentally different than the main DC universe. It is plausible that the ring's mechanisms are just different for this world. Alternately, there's a FridgeHorror solution: ''Abin Sur might not actually be dead.'' We see his body in a vat, but it's possible he's in a coma, and that the Earth scientists at Roswell don't understand enough about his physiology to determine that he's just unconscious as opposed to dead. But both are just WildMassGuessing, of course.

** As I recall, there was a significant theme through the book of NotSoDifferent between Superman and Luthor. The only guy who could stop the super-powered alien dictator with absolute power over a semi-utopian society was an unpowered human dictator (if not in name) with absolute power over a semi-utopian society.

* While yes, Superman was a totalitarian dictator, didn't the United States basically force his hand when they kept sending assassins and meta humans to invade and kill him? They basically brought Superman's wrath on themselves, as he was previously content to try winning the war with ideology instead of violence.

** Soviet!Batman is nothing like "criminals are a superstitiously and cowardly lot" Batman because, for one thing, his motivations actually have nothing to do with fighting crime. Regular bats' parents were killed by a criminal, whereas Soviet!Bats' parents were killed by a law official. While Superman ended up reasonably the same (because let's face it, his basic ideals of truth and justice could mean almost anything and are completely non-contextual), Soviet!Bats ended up as an inversion of his regular motivations with the same personality, which would concievably result in someone very much like his regular villains.
** Given Soviet!Bats' crushing hatred of authority figures as opposed to criminals, and the fact that instead of having a faceless and constantly changing group to 'correct', Soviet!Bats has one, easily identifiable figure that fuels his entire campaign, it makes sense that he wouldn't want to kill Superman, because his anti-superman crusade is the only thing that has sustained him all these years. Logically his position up to that point would demand that he kill superman but he probably found himself unable to because, even if he wasn't aware of it, he'd have no reason to keep living without someone to hate.

** On a lesser note, fact that Soviet!Batman drinks alcohol could easily be attributed to the fact that Russia has a far more pervasive drinking culture than the US.
** I always figured he may have used the alcohol as a pain killer. the poor guy probably got knocked around a bit, and i doubt he has access to proper medicine. i think the "real" Batman has trained in meditation to control his pain, but i doubt this batman ever had the time or the resources to do so.

** You see Batman as sympathetic (if not justified) in his actions across other depictions since his villains are vile, he has an over-the-top rule about no-killing when it comes to the aforementioned supervillains, and even an action like making plans to counter his co-workers is one he gets away with since the plot is sure to provide a "good" case for doing so (like Bruce getting mindwiped by his co-workers). Here Superman's a {{Well Intentioned Extremist}} dictator who is legitimately providing for his empire plentiful bounties and security (rather than an irredeemable weekly mass murderer like the Joker) with Batman lacking any contrivances like Arkham. You find the Soviet Batman's conduct off-putting since you're seeing him as he is when stripped of all his contrivances so that he can be an ultraviolet vigilante who makes schemes against his teammates but still be "in the right."

** One ''BelieveItOrNot'' segment had Jack Palance explain the "wondrous Egress" at a freakshow. It was the door out. The show was so good, the owners couldn't shuffle the attendees out fast enough to keep new ones (who bought tickets) coming in. The Egress trick was a polite way of getting people to leave without forcing them out. I have little trouble seeing "man of the people" red son supes as having no problem with limiting the viewing time of exhibits so everyone could enjoy a look. If you want more time, go get in line again. The "rigorous psych exams" threatened would, of course, be for "your own good" since anyone who doesn't understand how moving on in 60 seconds to let others enjoy the exhibits is good must not be right in the head.

* How did Superman ending up in Soviet make Stalin care about his son? Also surprising that Superman is so pro-Soviet considering that he comes from a collective farm in Ukraine. Shouldn't he have been there for holodomor then?

** To address the first question, if we're talking about Pyotr then it seems pretty clear that Stalin really ''didn't'' care all that much about him beyond him being his heir. If we're talking about why Stalin would raise Superman as his son, I'm pretty sure that Joseph Stalin of all people would take an interest in the rearing of a superbeing who happened to fall into his lap, so to speak.

* How did Wonder Woman break the unbreakable lasso of truth.

** She loved Superman and he was too dense to see that - this is explicitly mentioned in the narration by Supes himself. Hell hath no fury and all that, so when Wonder Woman broke the lasso of truth and damaged herself, she then realized that Supes didn't love her and probably blamed him for getting hurt. To be fair to WW, it is pretty much Supes fault that she did get hurt. If the person I had a crush on didn't return my feelings and got me hurt - maybe even being responsible for a future death - I'd be pretty pissed as well.
** The incident made Wonder Woman realise that Soviet!Batman was right in the end: Superman does care more about his authoritarian grip on the Soviet Union, than her. This is made clear when Wonder Woman something happened her after she snapped the lasso, and all Superman could think about his about Batman's revelation that Pyotr betrayed him.

** Also, the "Corps" had only one proper lantern in it sharing his power with a bunch of lesser lanterns who, while disciplined, didn't quite possess the extraordinary mental discipline required to wield a ring. One of these lesser lanterns even says he's having trouble keeping other thoughts out of his head while maintaining his part of the construct.
** Plus, the Green Lantern Marine Corps presented here isn't ''the'' Green Lantern Corps. Presuming that the SpacePolice associated with the Guardians of the Universe exist in this universe (which is only theorized to be the case in the comic), the Green Lantern Marine Corps' only real relation to them is that they're presumably where Abin Sur got his Green Lantern ring before he crashed in Roswell. It is reasonable to assume that Luthor found some way to replicate it, and these rings--which may not be as powerful as the genuine articles--are most likely what the Green Lantern Marine Corps are using--with the exception of Colonel Jordan's, who was given the previously mentioned ring taken from Abin Sur.

* How was the Russian government able to control superman?
** They weren't controlling him. At first he was raised by Stalin and he loved and respected him, and if you notice if Stalin tried to get Superman to do something he didn't want to (Like sit and enjoy the parade) Superman would basically tell him to fuck off and go do what he wants. In later chapters Superman WAS the government.

* On the subject of Sovet!Batman, how did he even come to exist? From what little we see of his past, he definitely doesn't come from a rich family. He wouldn't have had the resources needed to get the equipment and training that Bruce Wayne recieved, so how did he manage to get as skilled as his US counterpart?
** He is ''not'' as skilled as his US counterpart. You can see the differences on his modus operatis, his ugly Batcave and his ways of attacking. Plus, US!Batman defeated Superman almost every single time they had to fought. Soviet!Bats killed himself in the ''first time'' because he had failed. Soviet!Bats is less prepared, less trained and is not as smart as US!Bats, which led to his doom.
*** Batman has been repeatedly shown as not standing a chance against a Superman who's focused on smashing him into the dirt and with Batman having no access to easy Kryptonite (or some other weakness Bruce can exploit). In ''Superman: Sacrifice'' Clark puts Bruce in traction thanks to Maxwell Lord's manipulation. In ''Hush'', Bruce pulls out a Kryptonite ring and still doesn't actually KO a Poison Ivy controlled Clark, rather he depends on Catwoman chucking Lois Lane off a building so that Clark can spring into action saving her (leading to Ivy's control getting removed). Even in ''The Dark Knight Returns'', Batman with all his preparations can only really stall Clark for time.
* Why did Luthor never think to use the red-sun lamps ever again? They worked perfectly when Batman tried them, so why didn't he just hand one to Hal Jordan or Diana and say "Hey, this thing can remove his powers. You might wanna' try it".

** On that topic, how the hell did Soviet!Bats discovered about the red sun radiation? He said that, because Superman was "The Last Son Of A Dying Planet", it made sense, but... there were literally hundreds of other things that could have been making the planet die. And how did he manage to recreate perfectly the radiation of a red dying sun with lamps? Before the 2000s? ''Working under the Earth possibly alone?''

** I was under the impression that Lex Luther somehow managed to give the red sun lamp tech to the Batman.

* Why did the Power Ring not seek out a new host as soon as the last Green Lantern (presumably Abin Sur) died? In any other media the ring leaves its host and finds a different one upon death, but this one stuck around and let itself be handled by Lex who decidedly not worthy of it. And for that matter why did the guardians not send for the newest recruit or realize their ring was being duplicated and try to stop it? There was an entire sector without protection, why did no one in the GLs notice? Or how about how one individual lantern powered the whole squadron of lanterns when it was designed for one?

** It should be more like a full economic plan, based on a formula; to cut expenses and start turning profits. Of course, it would only work if executed exactly as it was developed; my guess is that Luthor has, in this universe, enough intelligence to identify the thousands of variables of a free market and reduce them to only a couple dozen more manageable KNOWN variables. His formula should only work for a very narrow windows of time, perhaps six or seven months, enough to be noticeable and getting him more work while at the same time getting the government off his back so he can focus on Superman. A lot of a country's budget goes down on plans that don't work as they should; no government ever has too little money, they just spend on unnecessary things, or on things that aren't profitable and then you have low recaudation. Lex's formula could very well include this information. At the very basic level, balancing a budget just means that your expenses are the same as your income. For example, for the USA a lot of money could be saved by cutting down on military expenses and welfare; it's just not politically beneficial to do so.
** Read it again: Luthor scribbled the formula, and things got worse for the USA, and far worse before they got better. Clearly, that whole "eliminate the deficit" thing didn't do a damn thing, since America experienced food shortages, riots, civil wars, leading to sixteen of the states seceding under at least three administrations. For all we know, it may very well be possible that the reason hey didn't work may be partially due to Luthor didn't account for the expenditure the super-arms race (largely consisting of his own anti-Superman contingency plans) would cost. FYI, in real-life the real reason why the military spending is high because the US has been on an alertness for war since the Cold War's beginning, which makes sense given the amount of conflicts it's been involved in since then. In Superman: Red Son, they still had proxy wars between the two superpowers. As for welfare, removing spending on it could lead thousands of unskilled workers looking for low-wage jobs, which wouldn't be enough to cover the living expenses of a single person, much less a family, putting aside the unemployed. Those are reasons why "it's not politically beneficial to do" either. There was a "President Friedman" in that story, whose to say his administration didn't see the drastic cuts in welfare, or its outright removal?
*** Knowing Luthor, its possible that he did all of that on ''purpose'', rather than making any mistakes. Luthor, after all, is an elitist asshole- if "food shortages, riots, civil wars and secession" were the price of a long-term economic utopia, he'd probably pay it without blinking, and / or it vilifies three administrations enough that America ends up voting for its "saviour" ComicBook/LexLuthor, who of course knows ''exactly'' what they need to do to save the economy- either the benefits of his formula would not be seen until he took office (assuming he calculated that far ahead, which it is implied he ''did''), or his formula was designed from the outset to cause havoc and Luthor planned to scrap it as soon as he took power.

* Do any of the political ideas in the comic even make sense? Superman is a communist because he keeps track of all the economy, but Luthor’s economic plan once he became president gives the government control over every dollar… when the government has control over all the economy, that’s called communism. So how is the story a capitalism Vs. communist thing? In the matters of “freedom” it doesn’t makes any sense neither. Superman’s word is perfect and everybody is so happy that almost nobody complains, not even in private. How is that different from a democracy were Superman just gets elected as absolute leader of the world every time? In all the history of mankind nobody has fought for democracy because they love the system and the ruler but hate no being able to vote for it. The only problem with Superman’s government seems to be Superman’s robots, but they are not being brainwashed for thinking different but for trying to overthrow the government. Even in a no-dictatorial state that’s a crime. I think that the metaphor just doesn't make any sense when you throw a superbeing that makes a communist state work like a clock.

** It's not supposed to be a capitalism vs communist in that sense. The idea of the story is that because Superman grew up in an communist environment, he decided to take control on the country so he could look after it better, something he is very unlikely to do in a democratically run country. Plus it is different from a democracy standpoint since it doesn't matter how popular you are as a leader, every few years or so requires an election and you might be removed from office. The main reason why communism is terrible is that you are stuck with the same leader, regardless if they are good or bad, and since Superman is immortal, he is going to be in office for a while. Also, as you said, Superman is keeping watch on his citizens. They state numerous times in the comic that it is not wise to complain when your leader can hear the entire planet and when Superman "dies", the whole planet cheers, so he obviously wasn't universality loved. They did have issues with him, they were just too afraid to complain about it. As for Lex Luthor having control over every dollar, well he is still Lex Luthor, one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

** When a government has total control of the economy, that is not called Communism; that is a Command Economy. STATE Communism usually takes the form of a command economy, but not all command economies are communist. Communism is about equal opportunity for everyone, and taking control of the state is just one possible means to try and achieve this (another form of communism is to a actually ''abolish'' the state- Anarcho-Communism). The difference here is one of philosophy and intent- both Luthor and Superman utilise a command economy, but while Superman uses it to create the ultimate egalitarian society (sans the one all-powerful alien running all of it), Luthor has established a meritocratic geniocracy where ones place in society is rewarded by talent and intellect, with himself in charge of course [[SarcasmMode because he is the most talented and intelligent human to have ever lived.]] Basically both are fair, but only Supermans' world is equal. One wonders what life is like in Luthorville if you DON'T have stupendous amounts of drive and ability (it might be alright, but it's definitely not as good as if you are part of his elite). And of course the other difference is that for all his faults, Superman at least cares about the human race and is more of a WellIntentionedExtremist, while Luthor is still just an EvilGenius [[AGodAmI with a God complex]] who wants to remake the world to his own personal liking, regardless of how many people have to die (baring in mind ''he'' causes the economic collapse the pre-Luthor governments have to put up with) in order to achieve it.

** And just as in ever other power struggle, there may well have been multiple contenders. It's just that two of them (Stalin's son who'd been groomed for years as a successor, and the invincible immortal hero of the people) stood out above all the others.
** To answer, let's do a quick comparison. On one hand, you've got a bunch of dull grey Soviet bureaucrats and politicos who's main abilities are managing not to get killed by Stalin in a fit of paranoia while simultaneously managing to not completely screw everything up enough to put them in the running. And then on the other hand you've got an alien man raised from infancy as Stalin's son with superhuman strength and abilities who flies around helping everyone and generally being the most perfect guy ever. Keeping that in mind, I suggest it's not hard to see why the dull grey Soviet bureaucrats didn't really get a look in as far as pretty much everyone in the universe was concerned. It's made pretty clear that even Stalin's birth son was pretty definitively left in the dust as well. Put simply, who really gives a shit about Khruschev when ''Superman's'' the main competition for the top job as far as everyone's concerned?

* While yes, Superman was a totalitarian dictator, didn't the United States basically force his hand when they kept sending assassins and meta humans to invade and kill him? They basically brought Superman's wrath on themselves, as he was content to winning the war with ideology instead of violence.

*** Given that liberal estimates of medical technology's progress think we may achieve ''actual'' immortality(at least from ageing et all) within ''a couple generations'', Luthopia or not, this troper finds the fact that he didn't just straight-up live until the end to be more bothersome, unless of course he calculated long ago that this would somehow go against his plans for the world and was satisfied enough with what he'd lived through already.

** He's filled with hypocrisies and/or cognitive dissonance. Remember, Red Son is at best a story of a {{Grey and Grey Morality}} war between Superman and Luthor that becomes {{Black and Grey Morality}} when Brainiac makes his move. You're not supposed to find Superman sympathetic in everything he does.