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** Why would the seals reset? My theory is that the first 65 seals were making the key and killing lilith was using it, to do that again they must break another 65 seals of the remaining 534 and then destroy the used rings (as successfully using the rings turns them into a new lock, like lilith)
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** Somewhere in season 3 it's statet that most demons like to run their hosts really hard so it's safe to assume the person inside is probably dead anyway. Personally, I think it's a weak justification but I guess it's better than nothing.
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*** I always thought of their being trigger-happy, and sloppy with crime scenes, and not always too bright in general as deliberate flaws of their characters. Am I just being [[FanDumb]] and [[Handwave handwaving]] the writers' incompetence?

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*** I always thought of their being trigger-happy, and sloppy with crime scenes, and not always too bright in general as deliberate flaws of their characters. Am I just being [[FanDumb]] {{FanDumb}} and [[Handwave [[{{Handwave}} handwaving]] the writers' incompetence?
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*** I always thought of their being trigger-happy, and sloppy with crime scenes, and not always too bright in general as deliberate flaws of their characters. Am I just being [[FanDumb]] and [[Handwave handwaving]] the writers' incompetence?
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*** So is the Christian mythology which the show is based on, yet when that's stated, I bet it bugs you, doesn't it? Just saying, YMMV on what bugs may or may not arise.
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** Ladies and gentlemen, XanatosRoulette at its finest. Ruby was [[BatmanGambit using the offer as a way of gaining the boys' trust]]. She also knew they would never go through with the VirginSacrifice. If she had been wrong on this point, she'd have been royally screwed.
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*** My point exactly. John isn't the main character. His sons are. If [[DeusExMachina he just showed up and solved all their problems]] by being the {{badass}} hunter that he is, the show would really suck. So, of course, he's going to make bad decisions that require the boys' intervention. This isn't a plot hole. This is just good writing.
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* [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] but Supernatural has to be some of the best storytelling on TV. That being said, there is one thing that [[TitleDrop just bugs me]]. Holy fire. The first time it was introduced in "Free To Be You And Me," I wondered aloud why they couldn't "deep-fry an archangel" like they threaten to do in "Changing Channels." My brother said (and I quote), "[[AntiClimax That wouldn't be very heroic]]." True enough but what's the in-universe reason for not burning Ol' Lucy at the stake. In "Swan Song," it is finally explained that holy fire only works on archangels for about five minutes. If that's true, why didn't Raphael just walk through the fire. He would have been able to return to Castiel and Dean in five measly minutes. Granted, it looked really painful for [[spoiler: Michael]] but angels are soldiers, not wimps. I've auditioned [[FanWank possible explanations]], everything from [[AllThereInTheManual the varying power levels of the archangels]] to a some sort of psychosomatic effect like MartianManhunter's [[KryptoniteFactor problem with fire]]. In any case, it's squirrely at best and BadWriting at worst.
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* [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] but Supernatural has to be some of the best storytelling on TV. That being said, there is one thing that [[TitleDrop just bugs me]]. Holy fire. The first time it was introduced in "Free To Be You And Me," I wondered aloud why they couldn't "deep-fry an archangel" like they threaten to do in "Changing Channels." My brother said (and I quote), "[[AntiClimax That wouldn't be very heroic]]." True enough but what's the in-universe reason for not burning Ol' Lucy at the stake. In "Swan Song," it is finally explained that holy fire only works on archangels for about five minutes. If that's true, why didn't Raphael just walk through the fire. He would have been able to return and slaughter Castiel and Dean in five measly minutes. Granted, it looked really painful for [[spoiler: Michael]] but angels are soldiers, not wimps. I've auditioned [[FanWank possible explanations]], everything from [[AllThereInTheManual the varying power levels of the archangels]] to a some sort of psychosomatic effect like MartianManhunter's [[KryptoniteFactor problem with fire]]. In any case, it's squirrely at best and BadWriting at worst.

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* [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] but Supernatural has to be some of the best storytelling on TV. That being said, there is one thing that [[TitleDrop just bugs me]]. Holy fire. The first time it was introduced in "Free To Be You And Me," I wondered aloud why they couldn't "deep-fry an archangel" like they threaten to do in "Changing Channels." My brother said (and I quote), "[[AntiClimax That wouldn't be very heroic]]." True enough but what's the in-universe reason for not burning Ol' Lucy at the stake. In "Swan Song," it is finally explained that holy fire only works on archangels for about five minutes. If that's true, why didn't Raphael just walk through the fire. He would have been able to return and slaughter to Castiel and Dean in five measly minutes. Granted, it looked really painful for [[spoiler: Michael]] but angels are soldiers, not wimps. I've auditioned [[FanWank possible explanations]], everything from [[AllThereInTheManual the varying power levels of the archangels]] to a some sort of psychosomatic effect like MartianManhunter's [[KryptoniteFactor problem with fire]]. In any case, it's squirrely at best and BadWriting at worst.
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* [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] but Supernatural has to be some of the best storytelling on TV. That being said, there is one thing that [[TitleDrop just bugs me]]. Holy fire. The first time it was introduced in "Free To Be You And Me," I wondered aloud why they couldn't "deep-fry an archangel" like they later threaten to do in "Changing Channels." My brother said (and I quote), "[[AntiClimax That wouldn't be very heroic]]." True enough but what's the in-universe reason for not burning Ol' Lucy at the stake. In "Swan Song," it is finally explained that holy fire only works on archangels for about five minutes. If that's true, why didn't Raphael just walk through the fire. He would have been able to return and slaughter Castiel and Dean in five measly minutes. Granted, it looked really painful for [[spoiler: Michael]] but angels are soldiers, not wimps. I've auditioned [[FanWank possible explanations]], everything from [[AllThereInTheManual the varying power levels of the archangels]] to a some sort of psychosomatic effect like MartianManhunter's [[KryptoniteFactor problem with fire]]. In any case, it's squirrely at best and BadWriting at worst.

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* [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] but Supernatural has to be some of the best storytelling on TV. That being said, there is one thing that [[TitleDrop just bugs me]]. Holy fire. The first time it was introduced in "Free To Be You And Me," I wondered aloud why they couldn't "deep-fry an archangel" like they later threaten to do in "Changing Channels." My brother said (and I quote), "[[AntiClimax That wouldn't be very heroic]]." True enough but what's the in-universe reason for not burning Ol' Lucy at the stake. In "Swan Song," it is finally explained that holy fire only works on archangels for about five minutes. If that's true, why didn't Raphael just walk through the fire. He would have been able to return and slaughter Castiel and Dean in five measly minutes. Granted, it looked really painful for [[spoiler: Michael]] but angels are soldiers, not wimps. I've auditioned [[FanWank possible explanations]], everything from [[AllThereInTheManual the varying power levels of the archangels]] to a some sort of psychosomatic effect like MartianManhunter's [[KryptoniteFactor problem with fire]]. In any case, it's squirrely at best and BadWriting at worst.
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* [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] but Supernatural has to be some of the best storytelling on TV. That being said, there is one thing that [[TitleDrop just bugs me]]. Holy fire. The first time it was introduced in "Free To Be You And Me," I wondered aloud why they couldn't "deep-fry an archangel" like they later threaten to do in "Changing Channels." My brother said (and I quote), "[[AntiClimax That wouldn't be very heroic]]." True enough but what's the in-universe reason for not burning Ol' Lucy at the stake. In "Swan Song," it is finally explained that holy fire only works on archangels for about five minutes. If that's true, why didn't Raphael just walk through the fire. He would have been able to return and slaughter Castiel and Dean in five measly minutes. Granted, it looked really painful for [[spoiler: Michael]] but angels are soldiers, not wimps. I've auditioned [[FanWank a number of potential explanations]], everything from [[AllThereInTheManual the varying power levels of the archangels]] to a some sort of psychosomatic effect like MartianManhunter's [[KryptoniteFactor problem with fire]]. In any case, it's squirrely at best and BadWriting at worst.

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* [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] but Supernatural has to be some of the best storytelling on TV. That being said, there is one thing that [[TitleDrop just bugs me]]. Holy fire. The first time it was introduced in "Free To Be You And Me," I wondered aloud why they couldn't "deep-fry an archangel" like they later threaten to do in "Changing Channels." My brother said (and I quote), "[[AntiClimax That wouldn't be very heroic]]." True enough but what's the in-universe reason for not burning Ol' Lucy at the stake. In "Swan Song," it is finally explained that holy fire only works on archangels for about five minutes. If that's true, why didn't Raphael just walk through the fire. He would have been able to return and slaughter Castiel and Dean in five measly minutes. Granted, it looked really painful for [[spoiler: Michael]] but angels are soldiers, not wimps. I've auditioned [[FanWank a number of potential possible explanations]], everything from [[AllThereInTheManual the varying power levels of the archangels]] to a some sort of psychosomatic effect like MartianManhunter's [[KryptoniteFactor problem with fire]]. In any case, it's squirrely at best and BadWriting at worst.
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None

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* [[YourMileageMayVary YMMV]] but Supernatural has to be some of the best storytelling on TV. That being said, there is one thing that [[TitleDrop just bugs me]]. Holy fire. The first time it was introduced in "Free To Be You And Me," I wondered aloud why they couldn't "deep-fry an archangel" like they later threaten to do in "Changing Channels." My brother said (and I quote), "[[AntiClimax That wouldn't be very heroic]]." True enough but what's the in-universe reason for not burning Ol' Lucy at the stake. In "Swan Song," it is finally explained that holy fire only works on archangels for about five minutes. If that's true, why didn't Raphael just walk through the fire. He would have been able to return and slaughter Castiel and Dean in five measly minutes. Granted, it looked really painful for [[spoiler: Michael]] but angels are soldiers, not wimps. I've auditioned [[FanWank a number of potential explanations]], everything from [[AllThereInTheManual the varying power levels of the archangels]] to a some sort of psychosomatic effect like MartianManhunter's [[KryptoniteFactor problem with fire]]. In any case, it's squirrely at best and BadWriting at worst.
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** Yeah, that one bugs me as well. It's stated in tthe series that when demons possess people the host is still there. Their just in a sort of coma or paralysis. So when they go around stabbing people left and right with a demon killing knife it kinda makes you wonder about all the innocent people they've killed simply because they had the bad luck to get possessed. They again if they didn't stab they the demon would kill them both... still, a bit bothersome.

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** Yeah, that one bugs me as well. It's stated in tthe the series that when demons possess people the host is still there. Their just in a sort of coma or paralysis. So when they go around stabbing people left and right with a demon killing knife it kinda makes you wonder about all the innocent people they've killed simply because they had the bad luck to get possessed. They again if they didn't stab they the demon would kill them both... still, a bit bothersome.bothersome.
**They do get called on it. By Henriksen, with the Rising of the Witnesses, etc.
*Two things in "''Jus In Bello''": When they exorcised the demons who were trapped within the circle of salt, the black cloud exploded. Shouldn't that mean the demons were actually ''killed'', since they couldn't go anywhere? Also, Ruby was too useful to Lilith's true plan to risk her life on a lesser one (though Lilith herself didn't know all of Lucifer and Azazel's plan, and was looking out for her own self-interests afterall). So why did Ruby offer to kill herself?
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** Yeah, that one bugs me as well. It's stated in tthe series that when demons possess people the host is still there. Their just in a sort of coma or paralysis. So when they go around stabbing people left and right with a demon killing knife it kinda makes you wonder about all the innocent people they've killed simply because they had the bad luck to get possessed. They again if they didn't stab they the demon would kill them both... still, a bit bothersome.
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** Not exactly. The reason she died was actually stated as being that she interrupted Azazel feeding Sam the blood when he specifically told her not to interrupt him. Further proof was that some of the special children from S2 said their mothers didn't die.
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* What REALLY JustBugsMe is how the Winchester boys kill willy-nilly and NEVER get [[WhatTheHellHero called out on it]]. It's hard to watch our "protagonists" when Sam is shooting a Crossroad Demon (and more importantly, her host) for being fresh, and when Dean just cuts a vampire's (who didn't even know what she was doing) head off when they already know that it's possible for vamps to be "vegetarians." They seem to feel remorse or even acknowledge that their total douchebags masquerading as heroes. Pfft.

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* What REALLY JustBugsMe is how the Winchester boys kill willy-nilly and NEVER get [[WhatTheHellHero called out on it]]. It's hard to watch our "protagonists" when Sam is shooting a Crossroad Demon (and more importantly, her host) for being fresh, and when Dean just cuts a vampire's (who didn't even know what she was doing) head off when they already know that it's possible for vamps to be "vegetarians." They never seem to feel remorse or even acknowledge that their total douchebags masquerading as heroes. Pfft.
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* What REALLY JustBugsMe is how the Winchester boys kill willy-nilly and NEVER get [[WhatTheHellHero called out on it]]. It's hard to watch our "protagonists" when Sam is shooting a Crossroad Demon (and more importantly, her host) for being fresh, and when Dean just cuts a vampire's (who didn't even know what she was doing) head off when they already know that it's possible for vamps to be "vegetarians." They seem to feel remorse or even acknowledge that their total douchebags masquerading as heroes. Pfft.
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*** I had the theory of possession, if Angels and Demons do it, why shouldn't God be able to? It's also been proven that some people don't even know their being possessed half the time, so it's entirely possible that Chuck was possessed by God, and when he was done writing the Winchester Gospel, God made him ascend to heaven. It's entirely possible.
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** Anna's FaceHeelTurn bothered me in the first place. Some of it might be explained away by her personality changing as a result of getting her grace back, but it was jarring for her to go from having a tender love scene with Dean one season to randomly deciding to kill Sam the next. It just wasn't set up properly and her motivations were never really explained.
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*** [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome Lucy, I'm home.]]
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* In "Channel Surfing", the japanese gameshow asked if Sam wasn't alive would his parents be? the answer was yes but that flies in the face of the established canon of their mother dying because of the Yellow Eyed Demon's deal she made in the past!
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***** Oh, one more thing: they should use those demon trapping signs and wards more places, and more often ( particularly in the first two series) . It just seems sensible.

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***** Oh, one more thing: they should use those demon trapping signs and wards more places, and more often ( particularly in the first two series) . It just seems sensible.

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** The various Hunters seem to be a moderately large and very savvy community. Perhaps there are Hunters out there who spend time gathering this information and posting it for others. After all John's journal had a ''lot'' of information in it.

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** The various Hunters seem to be a moderately large and very savvy community. Perhaps there are Hunters out there who spend time gathering this information and posting it for others. After all John's journal had a ''lot'' of information in it.



*** Finally, just wanted to add that it was stated in an episode that if God didn't want to be found, then he wouldn't be found, mystical god-finding amulet or not. This seemed to mean that Chuck recognized the amulet when he first met Dean (even before Cas clues Dean into what the amulet does) and 'turned it off' so that it wouldn't alert anyone to His presence. Castiel doesn't recognize God because only four angels have ever even seen God, and Cas is not one of them. And, I mean, He's ''God.'' If He can conceal his identiy from a brainless amulet, then don't you think He could also conceal Himself from one of His own angels whom He created and knows inside and out?

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*** Finally, just wanted to add that it was stated in an episode that if God didn't want to be found, then he wouldn't be found, mystical god-finding amulet or not. This seemed to mean that Chuck recognized the amulet when he first met Dean (even before Cas clues Dean into what the amulet does) and 'turned it off' so that it wouldn't alert anyone to His presence. Castiel doesn't recognize God because only four angels have ever even seen God, and Cas is not one of them. And, I mean, He's ''God.'' If He can conceal his identiy from a brainless amulet, then don't you think He could also conceal Himself from one of His own angels whom He created and knows inside and out? out?




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* The thing that bugs me most about this show is how they handle crime scenes and don't even bother trying to to hide evidence of what they are doing. Seriously, guys, BUY A PAIR OF PLASTIC GLOVES AND USE THEM. IF they just did that, the cops would have a lot less to harass them about! Sam is supposed to be a bright, sensible boy with upper middle class sensibilities and possibly a ivory league (or at least, high quality) education , so tv/stereotypes dictate he should be clever enough to know how to handle a crimescene. And Dean must have watched Dexter ( or any number of police procedurals) at no point!! There's really no excuse!
** Also, do the Winchesters always have to be so trigger/dagger/axe/baseball-bat happy? It seems sometimes that there would be easier and equally effective ways to deal with repentant/newly turned vampires and werewolves. For the first group, they could tie them up and direct them to the reformed vampires lead by Amber Benson's character , which would allow them to stay alive without murdering people. For the werewolves, couldn't you just build some really good cages and shackles in the basement?
*** And, anyhow , Sam should not have shot that werewolf girl in series two. Tying up and Killing random innocent people in their appartments ( particularly attractive middle class young white women ) is the kind of thing that would get the cops on you in a big way. If she was too scared to pull the trigger herself ( and they couldn't have used the locked cellar), they could have tried to frame the scene correctly and have gotten her to write a suicide note. Her family might have appreciated knowing that it wasn't their fault that she died!!!
**** One final thing: Dean's deal with the crossroads devil is completely in keeping with his character's psychology ( in particular, that abusive way he was raised to be Sam's caretaker and low self esteem) but that doesn't make it any less painful to watch. The same can be said for John's deal with the devil. Also, although this troper thinks the actor who plays John is hot in a daddy kind of way and thinks the flashback scenes are quite effective, its annoying to watch the three Winchesters grouped together. For one thing, the plot suffers. More importantly, it just hurts to watch. Obviously, they all love each other, but John's treatment of his sons ( particularly Dean, who never calls him out) is manipulative and abusive. The three of them clearly have a lot of issues, and when they're all together, it's depressing and the plot suffers, because they spend too long wangsting and having stupid power struggles. It's more enjoyable when Bobby is the mentor , because he's got fewer screws loose, acknowledges them more as human beings, and they don't spend their whole time rehashing all their psychological issues rather than killing monsters and pretending to be husband and wife.
*****Oh, one more thing: they should use those demon trapping signs and wards more places, and more often ( particularly in the first two series) . It just seems sensible.
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** The various Hunters seem to be a moderately large and very savvy community. Perhaps there are Hunters out there who spend time gathering this information and posting it for others. After all John's journal had a ''lot'' of information in it.
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** Also, the message of the episode in general was kind of irritating and {{Anvilicious}}: Working for a corporation is evil! Pure evil!!! Apparently even Zachariah thinks so! Also anyone would ever enjoy a corporate lifestyle ''has'' to be a "douche" according to the characters.
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* In "I Know what You Did Last Summer", in the scene where Sam is first learning to use his Tele-exorcism powers, when he fails, Ruby walks up, stabs the guy with the magic knife, and walks off.
** Which is all well and good, except the guy's sitting inside of a devil's trap. Whoops.
*** And the next scene clearly shows that the circle is intact.
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* In "I Know what You Did Last Summer", in the scene where Sam is first learning to use his Tele-exorcism powers, when he fail, Ruby walks up, stabs the guy with the magic knife, and walks off.

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* In "I Know what You Did Last Summer", in the scene where Sam is first learning to use his Tele-exorcism powers, when he fail, fails, Ruby walks up, stabs the guy with the magic knife, and walks off.
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* In "I Know what You Did Last Summer", in the scene where Sam is first learning to use his Tele-exorcism powers, when he fail, Ruby walks up, stabs the guy with the magic knife, and walks off.
** Which is all well and good, except the guy's sitting inside of a devil's trap. Whoops.
*** And the next scene clearly shows that the circle is intact.
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* Wincest. Dear god, I can't think of a more stupid shipping community than these shippers. It's not even the incest itself, or even the fact that these people manage to somehow delude themselves into believe that the actors are gay and just hiding it. No, it's not that. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking It's the fact they go against all characterisation in an attempt to hamfistedly force the characters together.]] And that's terrible. [[spoiler: Maybe this should go into the FanDumb IJBM page?]]
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**** I was most annoyed at how Baron Saturday was portrayed. He's a wine-drinkin', whorin' badass, and yet all he does is for some reason try to punch Lucifer in the face and die. That's not how the Baron operates, at all!

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