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*** Just to be clear, Spock's racist comments towards the crew are way worse than anyhting they say to him.
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*** Given the temperatures involved (themselves highly unrealistic, but there it is), blankets and tents wouldn't have helped. The temperature was dropping too low too rapidly, all blankets and tents would do was help preserve warmth generated by the landing parties' bodies, and the cold was stealing that warmth faster than it could be generated or retained. No such thing as perfect insulation. Only something high-tech that actually generated heat where there was none would help, and anything like that apparently would be rendered inoperative by the transporter malfunction.
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*** There's no need to be offended by everything.
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Correcting Red Link.
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*** Probably only the Guardian even knows that the bum stole McCoy's phaser and disintegrated himself. Whether or not that guy's death changed the future noticeably, they didn't know.
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*** Probably only the Guardian even knows that the bum stole McCoy's [=McCoy's=] phaser and disintegrated himself. Whether or not that guy's death changed the future noticeably, they didn't know.
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Another point of view
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*** There's no need to be offended by everything.
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** Actually, the Balok image is only at the end of the 2nd season credits (which by then credited Paramount rather than Desilu - make if that what you will). The 1st season credits ended with Vina, and the 3rd season with a starscape.
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** Possibly the Federation or one of its member-worlds have previously encountered a planet that fell prey to some kind of GrayGoo scenario, and created General Order 24 as a last-ditch counter to such a thing potentially happening on ''their'' watch.
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[[folder: What the hell happened at the end of Is There in Truth No Beauty?]]
*The way this one ended seemed like it left something out. They went from epic battle to "death, or life for both of us" to Spock looking like death warmed over entering sickbay, to Miranda being curiously absent, to her and Kollos about to transport away happily. WTAF? Was there a part that got cut that might make this less abrupt?
*The way this one ended seemed like it left something out. They went from epic battle to "death, or life for both of us" to Spock looking like death warmed over entering sickbay, to Miranda being curiously absent, to her and Kollos about to transport away happily. WTAF? Was there a part that got cut that might make this less abrupt?
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* The Admiral seemed to be running the M5 testing project, so he might well have been sort of an M5 kool-aid drinker, not believing that the M5 could have possibly gone this far wrong. His attitude toward Kirk repeatedly suggests he's got some sort of beef with Kirk or grudge against him. Remember, there were only like 20 people left aboard the Enterprise and the officers kept on board were all Kirk's inner circle. The Admiral probably reasoned that Kirk thought the M5 was a threat and so intentionally sabotaged the mission in a spectacular way such that the computer would never be trusted. And it's not exactly rare in Starfleet that some officer and crew goes crazy. Further, the Admiral may have even deliberately set up the test so that Kirk would be deemed unneeded, such as the planetary team. If so, the Admiral may have thought he had inadvertently pushed Kirk over the edge.
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**** Different with Stiles, though, because he's not only operating on seething hatred, he alleges that Spock is in cahoots with the Romulans.
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* Well, one possibility is the current fad of hyper offense has disappeared in 300 years. As mentioned, Uhura practically says this. Another possibility that might sound crazy is the Vulcans (or Spock specifically) requested to be treated in this manner. In the TNG episode where Wesley is taking Starfleet entrance tests, he encounters an alien with webbed have that he's SUPPOSED to yell at instead of being nice because the guy's entire race thinks politeness is fake.
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*** Probably only the Guardian even knows that the bum stole McCoy's phaser and disintegrated himself. Whether or not that guy's death changed the future noticeably, they didn't know.
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** This isn't adequately explained in the episode. Spock said they beamed down "thermal heaters" that doubled and were nonfunctional, but what about tents, huge blankets, large warm boulders, etc? It actually suggests a technological blindness by the famed Starfleet engineers. They can't see a non technical solution.
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** Heck, did they lose all historical records about Stephen Hawking and his voice synthesizer setup? He seemed to have about the same remaining physical capabilities that Captain Pike did. There's no reason he shouldn't have been able to fully communicate in sentences.
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*** By the 23rd century the United States has seen sense and started using a word with one syllable rather than four.
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*** Who says the "Intrepid" is named for the US Navy vessel? The Royal Navy has had eight of them, the first being captured from the French in 1747.
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**** But [=McCoy=] isn't Moroccan so it's not his culture that this person would be rejecting. A closer analogy would be if the person was half American and half Maori, and chose to identify with his Maori heritage.
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** Why would Kirk be responsible for pushing the jettison button anyway? Sure, it would be his decision but it would be more likely that he would give the order for someone else to do it. After all, when the ''Enterprise'' leaves orbit Kirk doesn't push the START button himself; he gives Sulu the instruction and it's he who makes it happen.
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** OP here, I can accept that the Admiral thought Kirk was doing it, the problem is that he then had to also assume the rest of the crew from Spock to the lowest bridge official was also ''into it'', as even if Kirk went rough the rest of the crew is allowed to remove him from chair. He would have to assume that all of the Enterprise crew was into killing their fellow citizens.
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*** While German instead of Russian, this troper also has issues with the V/W thing for the same reason (and with S/TH, since TH doesn't exist in German this troper occasionally makes an "s" into a "th"). We don't really know how Chekov spends his off time, but I highly doubt he's the ''only'' Russian on board, so there's a good chance he wouldn't be speaking English 24/7. And even if he were, accents can take many years to fade.
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* For the record detail, I always took it this way. Yes, everyone knows what Kodos looks like if they look him up and compare him to the man himself. But what would be the purpose of that? In a galaxy full of war-criminals, what are the odds that someone who's just a face in a file would be present enough in someone's mind to identify him 20 years later? It would be the equivalent of a South African dictator escaping to the U.S. and taking on a new identity. Certainly the authorities would have his picture, but would they make that connection just seeing him on the street?The only people who WOULD be likely to make that connection would be people like Kirk; people who had seen him, in action, giving the order, and thus their face would leave a significant impact on them. Those would be the only people who might see him performing on-stage, realize who he was, and go after him, because there IS a difference in terms of impact between knowing what someone looks like in a photo and actually having known that person. Even Kirk isn't sure at first, and has to double-check to confirm. Someone who only knew the face of Kodos from his photo records would be hard-pressed to make that connection, I would imagine. His daughter was trying to kill all the people who could identify him on sight, probably because she figured the same thing; no one would make that connection without reason to do so, and no one would have reason to suspect her father was Kodos unless they actually recognized him as Kodos, which would be incredibly unlikely.
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** Well, Spock can surrender to authorities even if they don't end up convicting him of anything. Surely a first officer killing his captain calls for at least an investigation! Possibly Spock isn't saying he'll be executed or kill himself so much as that he expects to eventually melodramatically die from the grief of his act.
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** Further evidence to support this: in "The Menagerie Pt. 1" Spock hijacks the Enterprise and sends it to Talos IV without Kirk's involvement or knowledge, but still the Commodore on board would have ''Kirk'' (and Spock) sentenced to death as per General Order 7 because "a captain is responsible for everything that occurs in his ship".
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* Spock's words to T'Pau at the end of "Amok Time" are very concerning. After regaining control of himself and realizing he just had killed Kirk, Spock states that he'll turn himself in at the nearest Starbase. However, it is not clear the authorities will even consider the captain's death a crime, since the whole affair was part of a ritual Kirk agreed to participate in (even if with limited information), and Spock was not in control of himself all along except for the moment he begged T'Pau to forbid Kirk from participating. Furthermore, even if it ''was'' a crime, the penalty would probably be imprisonment, not death, going by the well-established Talos IV tourism disincentive uniqueness. So when T'Pau says "Live long and prosper" and Spock answers "I shall do neither", as in he wont prosper and won't ''live very long'', does that mean he plans on killing himself?
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* Spock's words to T'Pau at the end of "Amok Time" are very concerning. After regaining control of himself and realizing he just had killed Kirk, Spock states that he'll turn himself in at the nearest Starbase. However, it is not clear the authorities will even consider the captain's death a crime, since the whole affair was part of a ritual Kirk agreed to participate in (even if with limited information), and Spock was not in control of himself all along except for the moment he begged T'Pau to forbid Kirk from participating. Furthermore, even if it ''was'' a crime, the penalty would probably be imprisonment, not death, going by the well-established Talos IV tourism disincentive uniqueness. So when T'Pau says "Live long and prosper" and Spock answers "I shall do neither", as in he wont won't prosper and won't ''live very long'', does that mean he plans on killing himself?
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** He probably took the same angle the episode was trying to hammer in -how Kirk was feeling threatened by a machine supplanting him. The M-5 was supposed to be pretty much infallible, it had proved itself just a while back with its flawless execution on the first war games drill, and the Admiral was probably well aware of the existence of the shut-down button on the captain's chair. Therefore, even if the M-5 did malfunction and used full-power ammunition, Kirk was supposed to be ultimately in charge of the ship, taking over if necessary. No one could have suspected the lengths the M-5 would go to protect itself, taking control of the Enterprise and outsmarting its crew. Therefore, the Admiral must have thought that either Kirk was negligent of his supervision of a faulty AI at best, or had gone rogue and actively attacking the Federation for daring to supplant him with a computer at worst.
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** He probably took the same angle the episode was trying to hammer in -how Kirk was feeling threatened by a machine supplanting him.doing his job. The M-5 was supposed to be pretty much infallible, it had proved itself just a while back with its flawless execution on the first war games drill, and the Admiral was probably well aware of the existence of the shut-down button on the captain's chair. Therefore, even if the M-5 did malfunction and used full-power ammunition, Kirk was supposed to be ultimately in charge of the ship, taking over if necessary. No one could have suspected the lengths the M-5 would go to protect itself, taking control of the Enterprise and outsmarting its crew. Therefore, the Admiral must have thought that either Kirk was negligent of his supervision of a faulty AI at best, or had gone rogue and actively attacking the Federation for daring to supplant him with a computer at worst.
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* In episode "The Ultimate Computer" once the computer goes crackpot and starts shooting for real at the other ships, killing crewmembers of those ships, the Admiral assumes Kirk went rough and is doing it himself, not the computer. Why would and Admiral assume that a condecorated captain with decades of service and not the experimental computer in his ship was doing that? Even more, even if he jumps to the conclusion that is Kirk doing it, he also has to assume that the entire bridge from Spock to the ensigns is in it with him (considering that it has been shown that a captain considered mentally unstable can be desobeyed and taken out of command by his subordinates). What is more plaussible, that an entire crew of trustworthy officers with many years of service went mad or that the computer they are actually testing is malfunctioning?
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* In episode "The Ultimate Computer" once the computer goes crackpot and starts shooting for real at the other ships, killing crewmembers of those ships, the Admiral assumes Kirk went rough and is doing it himself, not the computer. Why would and Admiral assume that a condecorated captain with decades of service and not the experimental computer in his ship was doing that? Even more, even if he jumps to the conclusion that is Kirk doing it, he also has to assume that the entire bridge from Spock to the ensigns is in it with him (considering that it has been shown that a captain considered mentally unstable can be desobeyed disobeyed and taken out of command by his subordinates). What is more plaussible, plausible, that an entire crew of trustworthy officers with many years of service went mad or that the computer they are actually testing is malfunctioning?malfunctioning?
** He probably took the same angle the episode was trying to hammer in -how Kirk was feeling threatened by a machine supplanting him. The M-5 was supposed to be pretty much infallible, it had proved itself just a while back with its flawless execution on the first war games drill, and the Admiral was probably well aware of the existence of the shut-down button on the captain's chair. Therefore, even if the M-5 did malfunction and used full-power ammunition, Kirk was supposed to be ultimately in charge of the ship, taking over if necessary. No one could have suspected the lengths the M-5 would go to protect itself, taking control of the Enterprise and outsmarting its crew. Therefore, the Admiral must have thought that either Kirk was negligent of his supervision of a faulty AI at best, or had gone rogue and actively attacking the Federation for daring to supplant him with a computer at worst.
** He probably took the same angle the episode was trying to hammer in -how Kirk was feeling threatened by a machine supplanting him. The M-5 was supposed to be pretty much infallible, it had proved itself just a while back with its flawless execution on the first war games drill, and the Admiral was probably well aware of the existence of the shut-down button on the captain's chair. Therefore, even if the M-5 did malfunction and used full-power ammunition, Kirk was supposed to be ultimately in charge of the ship, taking over if necessary. No one could have suspected the lengths the M-5 would go to protect itself, taking control of the Enterprise and outsmarting its crew. Therefore, the Admiral must have thought that either Kirk was negligent of his supervision of a faulty AI at best, or had gone rogue and actively attacking the Federation for daring to supplant him with a computer at worst.
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[[folder:I shall do neither]]
* Spock's words to T'Pau at the end of "Amok Time" are very concerning. After regaining control of himself and realizing he just had killed Kirk, Spock states that he'll turn himself in at the nearest Starbase. However, it is not clear the authorities will even consider the captain's death a crime, since the whole affair was part of a ritual Kirk agreed to participate in (even if with limited information), and Spock was not in control of himself all along except for the moment he begged T'Pau to forbid Kirk from participating. Furthermore, even if it ''was'' a crime, the penalty would probably be imprisonment, not death, going by the well-established Talos IV tourism disincentive uniqueness. So when T'Pau says "Live long and prosper" and Spock answers "I shall do neither", as in he wont prosper and won't ''live very long'', does that mean he plans on killing himself?
[[/folder]]
* Spock's words to T'Pau at the end of "Amok Time" are very concerning. After regaining control of himself and realizing he just had killed Kirk, Spock states that he'll turn himself in at the nearest Starbase. However, it is not clear the authorities will even consider the captain's death a crime, since the whole affair was part of a ritual Kirk agreed to participate in (even if with limited information), and Spock was not in control of himself all along except for the moment he begged T'Pau to forbid Kirk from participating. Furthermore, even if it ''was'' a crime, the penalty would probably be imprisonment, not death, going by the well-established Talos IV tourism disincentive uniqueness. So when T'Pau says "Live long and prosper" and Spock answers "I shall do neither", as in he wont prosper and won't ''live very long'', does that mean he plans on killing himself?
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[[folder:Death Penalty]]
* In "The Ultimate Computer", Kirk asks the M-5 what's the punishment for murder, and it answers "death". However, it was previously established that the only death penalty warranting offence in the Federation is going to Talos IV, something a computer as advanced as the M-5 must have known. Does that mean there are two different sets of laws, one for people and one for AI?
[[/folder]]
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Changed line(s) 611 (click to see context) from:
* In episode "The Ultimate Computer" once the computer goes crackpot and starts shooting for real at the other ships, killing crewmembers of those ships, the Almiral assumes Kirk went rough and is doing it himself, not the computer. Why would and Almiral assume that a condecorated captain with decades of service and not the experimental computer in his ship was doing that? Even more, even if he jumps to the conclusion that is Kirk doing it, he also has to assume that the entire bridge from Spock to the ensigns is in it with him (considering that it has been shown that a captain considered mentally unstable can be desobeyed and taken out of command by his subordinates). What is more plaussible, that an entire crew of trustworthy officers with many years of service went mad or that the computer they are actually testing is malfunctioning?
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* In episode "The Ultimate Computer" once the computer goes crackpot and starts shooting for real at the other ships, killing crewmembers of those ships, the Almiral Admiral assumes Kirk went rough and is doing it himself, not the computer. Why would and Almiral Admiral assume that a condecorated captain with decades of service and not the experimental computer in his ship was doing that? Even more, even if he jumps to the conclusion that is Kirk doing it, he also has to assume that the entire bridge from Spock to the ensigns is in it with him (considering that it has been shown that a captain considered mentally unstable can be desobeyed and taken out of command by his subordinates). What is more plaussible, that an entire crew of trustworthy officers with many years of service went mad or that the computer they are actually testing is malfunctioning?
