History Headscratchers / StarTrekTheOriginalSeries

28th Apr '16 11:27:09 AM costanton11
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* How did Kirk not know that his best friend Spock's father was a famous ambassador? Even if Spock never told him due to their estrangement, surely that info would be in Spock's Starfleet record, which Kirk should have seen as Spock's commandeering officer.

to:

* How did Kirk not know that his best friend Spock's father was a famous ambassador? Even if Spock never told him due to their estrangement, surely that info would be in Spock's Starfleet record, which Kirk should have seen as Spock's commandeering commanding officer.
28th Apr '16 11:05:05 AM costanton11
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:


[[folder: Spock's parentage]]
* How did Kirk not know that his best friend Spock's father was a famous ambassador? Even if Spock never told him due to their estrangement, surely that info would be in Spock's Starfleet record, which Kirk should have seen as Spock's commandeering officer.
[[/folder]]
15th Apr '16 8:21:05 AM costanton11
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]
15th Apr '16 8:20:29 AM costanton11
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:


[[folder: Mirror Universe costume change]]
* In 'Mirror, Mirror', when the crew switches places with their alternate selves, why do they end up in their counterparts' clothes?
15th Apr '16 8:20:29 AM costanton11
Is there an issue? Send a Message
13th Apr '16 1:48:16 PM CaptEquinox
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The above were all pointed out by Creator/DavidGerrold in his 1973 book ''The World Of Star Trek'', and his idea of the "Away Team" was implemented on TNG.



*** Actually, quite a few of them ''are'' the first thing you said.



*** I think the fact that you even brought it up when there was no reason for you to do is telling of how well-known the pairing is. It [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series created the whole slash fan fic subgenre]] and is one of the most popular pairings more than 40 years later. It's highly ambiguous and there does seem to be a reasonable amount of subtext which leaves this all open for interpretation. In any case, all works of fiction are open for interpretation. And even though you wouldn't be able to convince many people Spock and Uhura is TOS canon, I wouldn't call Abrams' addition of it in his universe "canon defilement".
*** Besides, it's traditional by now. [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Slash The need to describe the Kirk/Spock pairing]] is the TropeNamer for SlashFic.

to:

*** I think the fact that you even brought it up when there was no reason for you to do is telling of how well-known the pairing is. It [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series created the whole whole]] [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/History_of_Slash_Fandom modern slash fan fic subgenre]] and is one of the most popular pairings more than 40 years later. It's highly ambiguous and there does seem to be a reasonable amount of subtext which leaves this all open for interpretation. In any case, all works of fiction are open for interpretation. And even though you wouldn't be able to convince many people Spock and Uhura is TOS canon, I wouldn't call Abrams' addition of it in his universe "canon defilement".
*** Besides, it's traditional by now. [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Slash org/wiki/SlashTerminology The need to describe the Kirk/Spock pairing]] is the TropeNamer for SlashFic.



*** Given Kirk's practically a notorious womaniser anyway, it wouldn't be all too out of character for him if not for her to engage in such a pairing. (Granted their one kiss was forced by aliens, but that hasn't stopped main characters from ending up together in [[Anime/SuperDimensionFortressMacross at least one other show]].) Uhura also seems pretty much a straight gal. But neither Kirk nor Spock are obviously bisexual to a casual audience, and most of the non-gay audience in the '60s would even have expected such.

to:

*** Given Kirk's practically a notorious womaniser anyway, it wouldn't be all too out of character for him if not for her [Uhura] to engage in such a pairing. (Granted their one kiss was forced by aliens, but that hasn't stopped main characters from ending up together in [[Anime/SuperDimensionFortressMacross at least one other show]].) Uhura also seems pretty much a straight gal. But neither Kirk nor Spock are obviously bisexual to a casual audience, and most of the non-gay audience in the '60s would even have expected such.



*** This is probably another example of Roddenberry RetConning. He was initially looking for a way to bring audience attention back on Shatner, who was getting pissed that Nimoy was getting ten times the fan mail he was. It was [[http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/06/getting-star-trek-on-air-was-impossible.html Isaac Asimov who suggested that Roddenberry portray the two as friends]] so that Spock fans would pay attention to Kirk. It's a pretty safe bet that Roddenberry was talking out his ass in the book you're quoting from (which is the now-forgotten ''[[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Shatner:_Where_No_Man Where No Man]]'', a 1979 bio of Shat written by [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Sondra_Marshak Sondra Marshak]] and Myrna Culbreath, a couple of [[AynRand Objectivist]] devotees who had some of the most bizarre ideas ever in ST fandom). Be that as it may, learning about slash gave Roddenberry himself the idea to include the "t'hy'la" business in his novel for ''Star Trek: The Motion Picture''. Fans who had never heard of slash discovered it through that infamous footnote. Also, Roddenberry himself was apparently accused of being gay as a child because he didn't fit the "real man" stereotype of his dad's culture. According to George Takei, he was very supportive of real gays.

to:

*** This is probably another example of Roddenberry RetConning. He was initially looking for a way to bring audience attention back on Shatner, who was getting pissed that Nimoy was getting ten times the fan mail he was. It was [[http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/06/getting-star-trek-on-air-was-impossible.html Isaac Asimov who suggested that Roddenberry portray the two as friends]] so that Spock fans would pay attention to Kirk. It's a pretty safe bet that Roddenberry was talking out his ass in the book you're quoting from (which is the now-forgotten ''[[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Shatner:_Where_No_Man Where No Man]]'', a 1979 bio of Shat written by [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Sondra_Marshak Sondra Marshak]] and Myrna Culbreath, a couple of [[AynRand Objectivist]] devotees who had some of the most bizarre ideas ever in ST fandom). Be that as it may, learning about slash gave Roddenberry himself the idea to include the "t'hy'la" business in his novel for ''Star Trek: The Motion Picture''. Fans who had never heard of slash discovered it through that infamous footnote. Also, Roddenberry himself was apparently accused of being gay as a child because he didn't fit the "real man" "[[ARealManIsAKiller real man]]" stereotype of his dad's culture. According to George Takei, Creator/GeorgeTakei, he was very supportive of real gays.


Added DiffLines:

*** David Gerrold did say (in Shat's 2015 documentary film ''Chaos on the Bridge''), that in the TNG episode on Risa, Roddenberry asked if they could show gay and Lesbian couples kissing and making out along with the straight ones in that world.


Added DiffLines:

*** [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Amok_Time Sturgeon didn't write Amok Time alone]], however. He based it on an original idea by Roddenberry and Coon, and his outline was passed around for many, many rewrites by Roddenberry, Coon, Fontana, Justman, Solow, NBC program director Stan Robertson and Kellam-Deforest Research team Peter Sloman and Joan Pierce -- who threw out half of what Sturgeon wrote! We don't know who wrote what. What we ''do'' know is that Vulcan was originally conceived by Sturgeon as a B&D culture, with women "absolutely owned" and giving "absolute obedience"!
24th Mar '16 4:40:28 AM Darth_Rasputin32898
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[folder: Copyright date a decade late]]
* On the remastered episodes, why do the endcaps give a copyright date of 1978? Star Trek came out in the 60s.
** Copyright is an arcane and dark art at the best of times, but the gist is that when Paramount had another go at creating its own network in the late 1970s it shuffled around all its properties in the hope of getting everything on the same slate for 1978. The reaffirmation of copyright on a lot of properties, Star Trek included, stems from that.
[[/folder]]
18th Mar '16 10:32:20 AM Darth_Rasputin32898
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Wanton Cruelty to Tribbles]]
* Okay ... at the end of "The Trouble with Tribbles", Scotty deals with the tribbles "humanely" (i.e. instead of killing them) by beaming the tribbles into the Klingons' engine room. Klingons being Klingons, don't you think it'd be a bit ''more'' humane to just beam them into space?
** [[Main.RuleOfFunny Yes]].
** Classic: Klingons and Tribbles hate each other for about the same reason Tribbles like humans. Tribbles can induce humans to like them; clearly, Klingons don't take whatever method they use any better than Kirk does.
** ''Deep Space Nine'': Worf states that Tribbles bring famine and plague. (Which isn't implausible, given their breeding and eating habits.) Speculation: the Tribble plague produced the evolutionary crisis which led to Klingons growing Mars-bar heads.
** They taste good too.
** Popplers?
** The tribbles became far more dangerous after they were injected with the [=DNA=] of Human Augments. That's why they turned from harmless fuzzballs into the Klingon-killing Fuzzballs of the Apocalypse.
*** More likely the Klingons blew up the Tribble homeworld's atmosphere.
*** ...That was a ''result'' of the above problems, not the cause of anything.
** Another problem is that this could very easily interpreted by the Klingons as a deliberate, unprovoked attack on one of their vessels. Given the nature of the tribbles, beaming hundreds of them into a battlecruiser's engine room is tantamount to sabotage, at least in the eyes of the Klingons.
*** Sabotage? Hell, they probably interpreted it as either a psychological weapon or a WMD.
[[/folder]]
9th Mar '16 9:38:12 AM Darth_Rasputin32898
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** My response to the "is Kirk or Picard a better captain" debate has always been. "When Picard sees an anomaly that might kill him on a planet, he scans it and sends in an away team if that doesn't work. When Kirk sees one he says, "ok everyone, I'm going down there and I'm taking my second in command and the chief medical officer along with me. And also Ensign Redding Shirtham. If we don't come back, you're all screwed. Bye!" Ya, I'm on Picard's side here.
*** I've always come to the conclusion that it's in Kirk's character to put himself before his men. While Picard represents the more sophisticated side of a military man, Kirk represented the spirit of one. Excited at the prospect of adventure, boldly going to new places, and completely loyal to his men and 'country'. Because of this, he would jump before considering protocol if he needed to and considers himself more expendable than a lowly redshirt because that's just his character. And I think, when you explain that he takes the best people on away missions, you underestimate the people he would leave in charge on the Enterprise. Like Scotty, who was next in command and more than capable of leading the Enterprise and then Sulu, who was able enough to command the Excelsior in the movies. And on the medical side, Nurse Chapel or Doctor M'Benga was more than qualified to take care of matters. Just because he takes Spock and Bones with him on dangerous missions doesn't mean the Enterprise is weakened due to their absence. I think Kirk is the more preferred captain to adventurous fans while the more subdued like Picard. The whole 'who's a better captain' spiel is just plain nonsense and juvenile.
*** That aspect of Kirk's character is very much on display in Film/StarTrekTheMotionPicture. That film spends a lot of time showing that Decker, not Kirk, should be in command of the ''Enterprise''. And there are many other instances of Kirk's ego causing problems. One of the character's strengths, though, is that he's aware of his flaws and always works to keep them in check. I suspect that Picard was intentionally written to be Kirk's antithesis. Kirk was young and brash, Picard was seasoned and restrained. Kirk bristled at challenges to his authority, Picard specifically chose a first officer who would stand up to him. Kirk made seat-of-his-pants decisions based on instinct, Picard always took his officers' opinions into consideration when he made decisions. Kirk was a company man through-and-through, Picard put his morality ahead of his loyalty to the Federation. As you suggest, Kirk was loyal to his men, but I think Picard actually had Kirk beat in that regard: Kirk would always break the rules to help his friends, but Picard would absolutely put his ass on the line for ''every single member of his crew''; including some who he'd probably never even met, like Simon Tarses in "The Drumhead," Lal in "The Offspring," Ro Lauren in "Ensign Ro," and Sito Jaxa sometime between "The First Duty" and "Lower Decks."
9th Mar '16 9:22:49 AM Darth_Rasputin32898
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

[[folder:Captain Leeroy Jenkins]]
* It often bugs people when Cap'n Kirk beams down to the planet to investigate weird stuff in person. True, he's the hero of the piece and he's supposed to be Odysseus Main/InSpace. However ,the real world, any naval captain who constantly took such insane risks wouldn't be in command of a ship for long. In real navies, going ashore to investigate weird happenings is what [[Main/RedShirt junior officers]] and [[Main/SpaceMarine Marines]] are for.
** Dramatic necessity, natch. This one Just Bugged the writers too, so starting with TNG, they compromised and had the first officer lead away teams. But because ENT pre-dates the original series, they got to put Archer in as much danger as they liked.
** Kirk was just that kind of cowboy. No one ever accused him of an excess of self-restraint, as a lot of pregnant [[GreenSkinnedSpaceBabe Green Space Babes]] could tell you.
** Pretty much all Star Trek series are guilty of this. There's a particularly telling scene in Enterprise when Trip, the chief engineer has to go fix an engineering problem in a conduit that can hold 2, and he takes the Science Officer, T'Pol, rather than a member of his Engineering staff. Sure, she's smart but they're ENGINEERS. In other scenes, an Ensign is left in charge of the flagship of Starfleet while the senior officers beam down to investigate something. I've had it put to me that the bridge crew go on away missions so often because they have the most experience but my response to that is that it's not a oleplayingGame and they're not [=DnD=] adventurers!
*** Then again, Trip would happily use any flimsy excuse to be stuck in a narrow Jeffries tube with T'Pol.
** In the modern navy, sure, he wouldn't. On the other hand, Captain James Cook did. On the gripping hand, that's probably why he got killed in Hawaii...
** Star Trek is more like the navies of the 19th century. Read about what Captain Fitzroy and science attaché Darwin got up to during a 5 year mission aboard the Beagle. Yes, that Darwin.
** What made it really stupid is that he usually took his XO along.
** My response to the "is Kirk or Picard a better captain" debate has always been. "When Picard sees an anomaly that might kill him on a planet, he scans it and sends in an away team if that doesn't work. When Kirk sees one he says, "ok everyone, I'm going down there and I'm taking my second in command and the chief medical officer along with me. And also Ensign Redding Shirtham. If we don't come back, you're all screwed. Bye!" Ya, I'm on Picard's side here.
*** I've always come to the conclusion that it's in Kirk's character to put himself before his men. While Picard represents the more sophisticated side of a military man, Kirk represented the spirit of one. Excited at the prospect of adventure, boldly going to new places, and completely loyal to his men and 'country'. Because of this, he would jump before considering protocol if he needed to and considers himself more expendable than a lowly redshirt because that's just his character. And I think, when you explain that he takes the best people on away missions, you underestimate the people he would leave in charge on the Enterprise. Like Scotty, who was next in command and more than capable of leading the Enterprise and then Sulu, who was able enough to command the Excelsior in the movies. And on the medical side, Nurse Chapel or Doctor M'Benga was more than qualified to take care of matters. Just because he takes Spock and Bones with him on dangerous missions doesn't mean the Enterprise is weakened due to their absence. I think Kirk is the more preferred captain to adventurous fans while the more subdued like Picard. The whole 'who's a better captain' spiel is just plain nonsense and juvenile.
*** That aspect of Kirk's character is very much on display in Film/StarTrekTheMotionPicture. That film spends a lot of time showing that Decker, not Kirk, should be in command of the ''Enterprise''. And there are many other instances of Kirk's ego causing problems. One of the character's strengths, though, is that he's aware of his flaws and always works to keep them in check. I suspect that Picard was intentionally written to be Kirk's antithesis. Kirk was young and brash, Picard was seasoned and restrained. Kirk bristled at challenges to his authority, Picard specifically chose a first officer who would stand up to him. Kirk made seat-of-his-pants decisions based on instinct, Picard always took his officers' opinions into consideration when he made decisions. Kirk was a company man through-and-through, Picard put his morality ahead of his loyalty to the Federation. As you suggest, Kirk was loyal to his men, but I think Picard actually had Kirk beat in that regard: Kirk would always break the rules to help his friends, but Picard would absolutely put his ass on the line for ''every single member of his crew''; including some who he'd probably never even met, like Simon Tarses in "The Drumhead," Lal in "The Offspring," Ro Lauren in "Ensign Ro," and Sito Jaxa sometime between "The First Duty" and "Lower Decks."
[[/folder]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 167. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.StarTrekTheOriginalSeries