History Headscratchers / StarTrekEnterprise

14th Nov '17 11:00:19 PM harlbior
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** If the male Xyrillians are the ones that get pregnant and give birth, why do their females still have breasts? What purpose do they serve? It's like that one episode of Voyager where Tom was accused of killing that scientists guy and all the aliens had stupid headpieces because they're supposed to be related to birds... but the women have breasts because as we all know, birds use their nipples to feed their young with milk...

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** Maybe the transfer happens far less often with Xyrillians than with humans.
*
If the male Xyrillians are the ones that get pregnant and give birth, why do their females still have breasts? What purpose do they serve? It's like that one episode of Voyager where Tom was accused of killing that scientists guy and all the aliens had stupid headpieces because they're supposed to be related to birds... but the women have breasts because as we all know, birds use their nipples to feed their young with milk...milk...
** The breasts might be vestigial in both cases.
1st Oct '17 4:19:37 PM system
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30th Sep '17 10:57:56 PM Unicorndance
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* About ''In a Mirror, Darkly''. The Terran Empire. How in the hell, did a 90-year old(Counting from Cochrane shotgunning the Vulcan crew) warp-capable civilization just conquered most of the founding members of the Federation? Including Vulcan. Especially Vulcan. In prime-universe, Earth Starfleet just managed to acquired a warp-5 vessel, an astounding achievement for Earth, yet Vulcan have several Warp-7 combat cruiser. By that episode, ISS Enterprise and ISS Avenger was seen combating rebels. Assuming the level of Pre-Federation Earth and Pre-Defiant upgrade Emphuire have the same level of technological advancement rate, how did, Terran Empire, beat, and conquered, and enslaved, Vulcan, Andorian, and Orion, with a fleet consisted of ship capable of warp 4?

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* About ''In a Mirror, Darkly''. The Terran Empire. How in the hell, heck, did a 90-year old(Counting from Cochrane shotgunning the Vulcan crew) warp-capable civilization just conquered most of the founding members of the Federation? Including Vulcan. Especially Vulcan. In prime-universe, Earth Starfleet just managed to acquired a warp-5 vessel, an astounding achievement for Earth, yet Vulcan have several Warp-7 combat cruiser. By that episode, ISS Enterprise and ISS Avenger was seen combating rebels. Assuming the level of Pre-Federation Earth and Pre-Defiant upgrade Emphuire have the same level of technological advancement rate, how did, Terran Empire, beat, and conquered, and enslaved, Vulcan, Andorian, and Orion, with a fleet consisted of ship capable of warp 4?



** Considering how sneeringly disdainful the Vulcans were of humans prior to that three-parter in early Season 4, I find it hard to imagine that Vulcan would accept human immigrants at all, and harder still to imagine that they'd let them do something as important as serve on High Command ships of the line. Remember, they had decided it was in the best interest of all parties involved to limit Earth's access to advanced technology, so letting humans onto state-of-the-art ships would be the last thing they'd want to do. And don't say "But these would be humans who are naturalized Vulcan citizens," if such a thing is possible at all; the level of assholishness among Vulcans in those days was easily enough to ensure they'd look at humans with suspicion.

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** Considering how sneeringly disdainful the Vulcans were of humans prior to that three-parter in early Season 4, I find it hard to imagine that Vulcan would accept human immigrants at all, and harder still to imagine that they'd let them do something as important as serve on High Command ships of the line. Remember, they had decided it was in the best interest of all parties involved to limit Earth's access to advanced technology, so letting humans onto state-of-the-art ships would be the last thing they'd want to do. And don't say "But these would be humans who are naturalized Vulcan citizens," if such a thing is possible at all; the level of assholishness among Vulcans in those days was easily enough to ensure they'd look at humans with suspicion.subrotherion.



* In "The Expanse" Vulcan refuses to support Earth's plans for an expedition into [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin the Expanse]] because they don't buy Archer's cock-and-bull story about a time traveler (this was before time travel became a fact of life in Star Trek) having told him that he needs to go into the most dangerous part of the known universe in search of some species no one's ever heard of. Fair enough. But throughout the series, Archer is able to produce more and more evidence that the threat is real, and ''some'' of it finds its way back to Earth in the form of reports. Now I ''guess'' it's possible that Forrest has decided not to share these reports with Soval (though he ''did'' tell Soval about the ship full of Vulcan zombies, which was the only thing Soval wanted to talk about when Archer got back). Still, I just can't believe that the Vulcans had no idea something was up. By the end of the season they really should have offered some support to the humans. Look at the consequences of not doing so:

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* In "The Expanse" Vulcan refuses to support Earth's plans for an expedition into [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin the Expanse]] because they don't buy Archer's cock-and-bull reproductive body part-and-bull story about a time traveler (this was before time travel became a fact of life in Star Trek) having told him that he needs to go into the most dangerous part of the known universe in search of some species no one's ever heard of. Fair enough. But throughout the series, Archer is able to produce more and more evidence that the threat is real, and ''some'' of it finds its way back to Earth in the form of reports. Now I ''guess'' it's possible that Forrest has decided not to share these reports with Soval (though he ''did'' tell Soval about the ship full of Vulcan zombies, which was the only thing Soval wanted to talk about when Archer got back). Still, I just can't believe that the Vulcans had no idea something was up. By the end of the season they really should have offered some support to the humans. Look at the consequences of not doing so:



*** Did they? In "The Andorian Incident" Archer deliberately, almost maliciously, gave away sensitive Vulcan military secrets to the Andorians purely because he was pissed that he got beaten up (by the Andorians!) after inviting himself to go visit the Vulcan monastery despite the fact that they certainly never asked him to! It could readily be argued that Archer threw away Earth's treaty with the Vulcans right then and there, especially since Earth had no similar treaty with the Andorians, and thus no obligation to protect their interests over those of the Vulcans!

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*** Did they? In "The Andorian Incident" Archer deliberately, almost maliciously, gave away sensitive Vulcan military secrets to the Andorians purely because he was pissed urineed that he got beaten up (by the Andorians!) after inviting himself to go visit the Vulcan monastery despite the fact that they certainly never asked him to! It could readily be argued that Archer threw away Earth's treaty with the Vulcans right then and there, especially since Earth had no similar treaty with the Andorians, and thus no obligation to protect their interests over those of the Vulcans!



** Maybe the Vulcans didn't know about/believe in the sphere builders and the threat they posed to the entire Alpha Quadrant. But even if they didn't, they had to know that the Xindi existed. They had to know that the Xindi built superweapons the likes of which the Vulcans had never seen. They had to know that the Xindi attacked other species without issuing declarations of war or opening any diplomatic channels whatsoever; they just show up out of nowhere and fire off their Death Star. And now they want to operate in space--space in which they don't even pretend to have any territorial claims--that's well within the Vulcan sphere of influence. Who the hell would allow such people to operate with impunity in his own backyard?

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** Maybe the Vulcans didn't know about/believe in the sphere builders and the threat they posed to the entire Alpha Quadrant. But even if they didn't, they had to know that the Xindi existed. They had to know that the Xindi built superweapons the likes of which the Vulcans had never seen. They had to know that the Xindi attacked other species without issuing declarations of war or opening any diplomatic channels whatsoever; they just show up out of nowhere and fire off their Death Star. And now they want to operate in space--space in which they don't even pretend to have any territorial claims--that's well within the Vulcan sphere of influence. Who the hell heck would allow such people to operate with impunity in his own backyard?



** Part of this sits on the fact that the Vulcans are characterized here as being flatly unwilling to cut humans the slightest amount of slack when it comes to technological advancement. They'll show up to prove they're superior, but they won't lift a damn finger if is in any way beneficial to humanity as a whole. They were probably also busy with their war with the Andorians and didn't want to spare the ships.

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** Part of this sits on the fact that the Vulcans are characterized here as being flatly unwilling to cut humans the slightest amount of slack when it comes to technological advancement. They'll show up to prove they're superior, but they won't lift a damn darn finger if is in any way beneficial to humanity as a whole. They were probably also busy with their war with the Andorians and didn't want to spare the ships.



** This troper believes it would have made a lot more sense if the first attack was ''supposed'' to be the planet-destroying one but the machine failed for some reason and exploded/self-destructed. So the Xindi had to build a better one while now dealing with a pissed-off human race.

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** This troper believes it would have made a lot more sense if the first attack was ''supposed'' to be the planet-destroying one but the machine failed for some reason and exploded/self-destructed. So the Xindi had to build a better one while now dealing with a pissed-off urineed-off human race.



*** 2 minutes is a pretty good response time considering they don't know what direction the Xindi weapon will be coming from or how close it will appear to Earth. And a hell of a lot faster than the response time the defensive fleet had (or didn't have). They were nowhere to be found when the weapon got to Earth, but over a dozen ships showed up immediately when Enterprise was back to its own time period, so it's not like there weren't any ships.

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*** 2 minutes is a pretty good response time considering they don't know what direction the Xindi weapon will be coming from or how close it will appear to Earth. And a hell heck of a lot faster than the response time the defensive fleet had (or didn't have). They were nowhere to be found when the weapon got to Earth, but over a dozen ships showed up immediately when Enterprise was back to its own time period, so it's not like there weren't any ships.



** Bafflingly, Tom Paris mentions in the Series/StarTrekVoyager episode ''Thirty Days'', that after he graduated high school, he had wanted to join something called the Federation Naval Patrol. His stated motivation had been his love of the ocean and his fondness for ''Captains Coragious'', ''Literature/MobyDick'', and ''Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea," so whatever the Naval Patrol was, it seems that it was a seafaring organization, rather than being one that operates in space. It would seem that for there are still navies inexplicably operating as late as the mid 24[[superscript:th]] century.

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** Bafflingly, Tom Paris mentions in the Series/StarTrekVoyager episode ''Thirty Days'', that after he graduated high school, he had wanted to join something called the Federation Naval Patrol. His stated motivation had been his love of the ocean and his fondness for ''Captains Coragious'', ''Literature/MobyDick'', ''Literature/Mobyreproductive body part'', and ''Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea," so whatever the Naval Patrol was, it seems that it was a seafaring organization, rather than being one that operates in space. It would seem that for there are still navies inexplicably operating as late as the mid 24[[superscript:th]] century.



* ''A Night in Sickbay''. Why was Porthos (a dog please remember) ever brought down to the planet, especially for delicate negotiations for a vital piece of equipment? Did it never occur to Archer that a dog might react in an unexpected manner that would dash these negotiations? He's lucky that all Porthos did was piss on a sacred tree.

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* ''A Night in Sickbay''. Why was Porthos (a dog please remember) ever brought down to the planet, especially for delicate negotiations for a vital piece of equipment? Did it never occur to Archer that a dog might react in an unexpected manner that would dash these negotiations? He's lucky that all Porthos did was piss urine on a sacred tree.



** Likely as a way of emphasizing that the humans on board Enterprise ''really don't know what they are doing.'' They talk a big game, but they demonstrate lots of times that they have no clue what they are doing in space. Hoshi brings aboard a pet slug-thing that starts dying because she took it out of its natural environment. Archer's dog pisses on a sacred tree. Trip embarrasses our species every time he opens his mouth. If not for T'Pol, the ship wouldn't even have survived its first mission. Its the show's way of saying that ''No, we aren't ready'' for that big step into space, but we'll go anyway, so that we can learn from our mistakes (except for [[TookALevelInDumbass Trip.]])

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** Likely as a way of emphasizing that the humans on board Enterprise ''really don't know what they are doing.'' They talk a big game, but they demonstrate lots of times that they have no clue what they are doing in space. Hoshi brings aboard a pet slug-thing that starts dying because she took it out of its natural environment. Archer's dog pisses urinees on a sacred tree. Trip embarrasses our species every time he opens his mouth. If not for T'Pol, the ship wouldn't even have survived its first mission. Its the show's way of saying that ''No, we aren't ready'' for that big step into space, but we'll go anyway, so that we can learn from our mistakes (except for [[TookALevelInDumbass Trip.]])



*** I wouldn't call it that bad. I appreciate the intent to flesh out the Orions, and turning the Orion slave women into sleeper agents instead of being just MsFanservice is an interesting concept. The episode probably would've been better off having them sabotage the Enterprise just through plain old MagnificentBastard machinations instead of what amounts to mind control powers. Good concept and noble intentions, poor execution, which is far too often the case with fourth season episodes here.

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*** I wouldn't call it that bad. I appreciate the intent to flesh out the Orions, and turning the Orion slave women into sleeper agents instead of being just MsFanservice is an interesting concept. The episode probably would've been better off having them sabotage the Enterprise just through plain old MagnificentBastard Magnificentclouds machinations instead of what amounts to mind control powers. Good concept and noble intentions, poor execution, which is far too often the case with fourth season episodes here.



** What I'd like to know is, given that as MsFanservice T'Pol was likely to be paired with, or at least have {{UST}} with, at least one of the human characters, why the hell did the PowersThatBe introduce the whole HumansAreSmelly thing in the first place? It's InUniverse FanDisservice!

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** What I'd like to know is, given that as MsFanservice T'Pol was likely to be paired with, or at least have {{UST}} with, at least one of the human characters, why the hell heck did the PowersThatBe introduce the whole HumansAreSmelly thing in the first place? It's InUniverse FanDisservice!



* ''Unexpected'' has many problems and many UnfortunateImplications. Leaving those aside however, I have to ask as to why in-universe the Xyrillians even have an Impregnation Box in the first place and why is it so powerful that it is capable of impregnating aliens with biology radically different to their own and mutating said bodies in order to accept the fetus? It certainly seems far to powerful too be a conventional pregnancy aid, and it damn well did more than just grow a nipple on Trip's arm considering that his immune system wasn't rejecting the child. I honestly do hate to go down the date rape course like so many others, but such a device cannot be easily explained away.

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* ''Unexpected'' has many problems and many UnfortunateImplications. Leaving those aside however, I have to ask as to why in-universe the Xyrillians even have an Impregnation Box in the first place and why is it so powerful that it is capable of impregnating aliens with biology radically different to their own and mutating said bodies in order to accept the fetus? It certainly seems far to powerful too be a conventional pregnancy aid, and it damn darn well did more than just grow a nipple on Trip's arm considering that his immune system wasn't rejecting the child. I honestly do hate to go down the date rape course like so many others, but such a device cannot be easily explained away.



* At the end of [[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS04E06TheAugments "The Augments"]], Malik, the leader of the Augments, is on the bridge of the Klingon Bird of Prey as it's destroyed. We last see him there, badly wounded and barely standing, about two seconds before the ship explodes. But then we cut Soong and Archer aboard the Enterprise, and somehow Malik is now there, in fine condition. He attempts to kill Soong, before Archer shoots him. Even if disregard Malik's miraculous healing (the Augments are know to heal fast, but not ''that'' fast), how the hell did he get aboard the Enterprise? When he's last shown aboard the Bird of Prey, he's nowhere near a transporter, so are we to believe he somehow ran to one and energised it in a couple of seconds? And how come the Enterprise's internal sensors didn't notice a foreign person beaming aboard?

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* At the end of [[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS04E06TheAugments "The Augments"]], Malik, the leader of the Augments, is on the bridge of the Klingon Bird of Prey as it's destroyed. We last see him there, badly wounded and barely standing, about two seconds before the ship explodes. But then we cut Soong and Archer aboard the Enterprise, and somehow Malik is now there, in fine condition. He attempts to kill Soong, before Archer shoots him. Even if disregard Malik's miraculous healing (the Augments are know to heal fast, but not ''that'' fast), how the hell heck did he get aboard the Enterprise? When he's last shown aboard the Bird of Prey, he's nowhere near a transporter, so are we to believe he somehow ran to one and energised it in a couple of seconds? And how come the Enterprise's internal sensors didn't notice a foreign person beaming aboard?




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* Those GreenSkinnedSpaceBabe aliens from that one episode that affected only males due to lust or whatever...would they affect lesbians and bi females? And would gay and [[{{Asexuality}} asexual]] men be immune?
29th Jul '17 4:29:24 PM thatsnumberwang
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** There is a great leap between intelligent and sapient though. There are today in the real world computer programs that can mimic human speech and act spontaneously; they can tell jokes, tell stories, play games, sing etc. seemingly without being prompted by the user at all, but all they are in fact doing is systematically following a few million lines of code. I see no evidence that Star Trek holograms with the exception of the Doctor, Vic Fontaine and Moriarty are not doing the same thing just on a larger scale. Or to put it another way, they are essentially videogame NPCs, programmed to fulfill a set role and react according to that role to whatever input they receive rather than using any kind of free thought.

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** There is a great leap between intelligent and sapient though. There are today in the real world computer programs that can mimic human speech and act spontaneously; they can tell jokes, tell stories, play games, sing etc. seemingly without being prompted by the user at all, but all they are in fact doing is systematically following a few million lines of code. I see no evidence that Star Trek holograms with the exception of the Doctor, Vic Fontaine and Moriarty are not doing the same thing just on a larger scale. Or to put it another way, they are essentially videogame NPCs, {{NPC}}s, programmed to fulfill a set role and react according to that role to whatever input they receive rather than using any kind of free thought.
29th Jul '17 4:28:16 PM thatsnumberwang
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* ''Oasis''. Ezral states that the [[spoiler: holograms of the crew that he created]] could "make you laugh, ''surprise you''". That implies they are fully sapient, since they can do the unexpected (the essence of humor). Don't they deserve a say in what happens to them?




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* ''Oasis''. Ezral states that the [[spoiler: holograms of the crew that he created]] could "make you laugh, ''surprise you''". That implies they are fully sapient, since they can do the unexpected (the essence of humor). Don't they deserve a say in what happens to them?
** There is a great leap between intelligent and sapient though. There are today in the real world computer programs that can mimic human speech and act spontaneously; they can tell jokes, tell stories, play games, sing etc. seemingly without being prompted by the user at all, but all they are in fact doing is systematically following a few million lines of code. I see no evidence that Star Trek holograms with the exception of the Doctor, Vic Fontaine and Moriarty are not doing the same thing just on a larger scale. Or to put it another way, they are essentially videogame NPCs, programmed to fulfill a set role and react according to that role to whatever input they receive rather than using any kind of free thought.
29th Jul '17 3:11:07 PM GamerFromJump2
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* ''Oasis''. Ezral states that the [[spoiler: holograms of the crew that he created]] could "make you laugh, ''surprise you''. That implies they are fully sapient, since they can do the unexpected (the essence of humor). Don't they deserve a say in what happens to them?

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* ''Oasis''. Ezral states that the [[spoiler: holograms of the crew that he created]] could "make you laugh, ''surprise you''.you''". That implies they are fully sapient, since they can do the unexpected (the essence of humor). Don't they deserve a say in what happens to them?
29th Jul '17 3:10:37 PM GamerFromJump2
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* About In a Mirror, Darkly. The Terran Empire. How in the hell, did a 90-year old(Counting from Cochrane shotgunning the Vulcan crew) warp-capable civilization just conquered most of the founding members of the Federation? Including Vulcan. Especially Vulcan. In prime-universe, Earth Starfleet just managed to acquired a warp-5 vessel, an astounding achievement for Earth, yet Vulcan have several Warp-7 combat cruiser. By that episode, ISS Enterprise and ISS Avenger was seen combating rebels. Assuming the level of Pre-Federation Earth and Pre-Defiant upgrade Emphuire have the same level of technological advancement rate, how did, Terran Empire, beat, and conquered, and enslaved, Vulcan, Andorian, and Orion, with a fleet consisted of ship capable of warp 4?

to:

* ''Oasis''. Ezral states that the [[spoiler: holograms of the crew that he created]] could "make you laugh, ''surprise you''. That implies they are fully sapient, since they can do the unexpected (the essence of humor). Don't they deserve a say in what happens to them?
* About In ''In a Mirror, Darkly.Darkly''. The Terran Empire. How in the hell, did a 90-year old(Counting from Cochrane shotgunning the Vulcan crew) warp-capable civilization just conquered most of the founding members of the Federation? Including Vulcan. Especially Vulcan. In prime-universe, Earth Starfleet just managed to acquired a warp-5 vessel, an astounding achievement for Earth, yet Vulcan have several Warp-7 combat cruiser. By that episode, ISS Enterprise and ISS Avenger was seen combating rebels. Assuming the level of Pre-Federation Earth and Pre-Defiant upgrade Emphuire have the same level of technological advancement rate, how did, Terran Empire, beat, and conquered, and enslaved, Vulcan, Andorian, and Orion, with a fleet consisted of ship capable of warp 4?
12th Jul '17 7:30:59 PM SteveMB
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** It would have been really good to see Klingons acting differently, they really missed an opportunity there to make Klingon society seem dynamic by having the chronologically earlier Klingons be something new and different, which is a bit odd because they at least made an effort to do that with the Vulcans

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** It would have been really good to see Klingons acting differently, they really missed an opportunity there to make Klingon society seem dynamic by having the chronologically earlier Klingons be something new and different, which is a bit odd because they at least made an effort to do that with the VulcansVulcans.




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*** For that matter, [[Recap/StarTrekS3E2TheEnterpriseIncident the second "face-to-face" contact]] in the original series showed ''the Federation'' as an example of a generally honorable society resorting to black-ops dirty trickery. No species or nation is perfectly consistent about such things all the time.
2nd May '17 3:37:31 AM Tuomas
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* At the end of [[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS04E06TheAugments "The Augments"]], Malik, the leader of the Augments, is on the bridge of the Klingon Bird of Prey as it's destroyed. We last see him there, badly wounded and barely moving, about two seconds before the ship explodes. But then we cut Soong and Archer aboard the Enterprise, and somehow Malik is now there, in fine condition. He attempts to kill Soong, before Archer shoots him. Even if disregard Malik's miraculous healing (the Augments are know to heal fast, but not ''that'' fast), how the hell did he get aboard the Enterprise? When he's last shown aboard the Bird of Prey, he's nowhere near a transporter, so are we to believe he somehow ran to one and energised it in a couple of seconds? And how come the Enterprise's internal sensors didn't notice a foreign person beaming aboard?

to:

* At the end of [[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS04E06TheAugments "The Augments"]], Malik, the leader of the Augments, is on the bridge of the Klingon Bird of Prey as it's destroyed. We last see him there, badly wounded and barely moving, standing, about two seconds before the ship explodes. But then we cut Soong and Archer aboard the Enterprise, and somehow Malik is now there, in fine condition. He attempts to kill Soong, before Archer shoots him. Even if disregard Malik's miraculous healing (the Augments are know to heal fast, but not ''that'' fast), how the hell did he get aboard the Enterprise? When he's last shown aboard the Bird of Prey, he's nowhere near a transporter, so are we to believe he somehow ran to one and energised it in a couple of seconds? And how come the Enterprise's internal sensors didn't notice a foreign person beaming aboard?
1st May '17 10:19:11 AM Tuomas
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* At the end of [[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS04E06TheAugments "The Augments"]], Malik, the leader of the Augments is on the bridge of the Klingon Bird of Prey as it's destroyed. We last see him there, badly wounded and barely moving, about two seconds before the ship explodes. But then we cut Soong and Archer aboard the Enterprise, and somehow Malik is now there, in fine condition. He attempts to kill Soong, before Archer shoots him. Even if disregard Malik's miraculous healing (the Augments are know to heal fast, but not ''that'' fast), how the hell did he get aboard the Enterprise? When he's last shown aboard the Bird of Prey, he's nowhere near a transporter, so are we to believe he somehow ran to one and energised it in a couple of seconds? And how come the Enterprise's internal sensors didn't notice a foreign person beaming aboard?

to:

* At the end of [[Recap/StarTrekEnterpriseS04E06TheAugments "The Augments"]], Malik, the leader of the Augments Augments, is on the bridge of the Klingon Bird of Prey as it's destroyed. We last see him there, badly wounded and barely moving, about two seconds before the ship explodes. But then we cut Soong and Archer aboard the Enterprise, and somehow Malik is now there, in fine condition. He attempts to kill Soong, before Archer shoots him. Even if disregard Malik's miraculous healing (the Augments are know to heal fast, but not ''that'' fast), how the hell did he get aboard the Enterprise? When he's last shown aboard the Bird of Prey, he's nowhere near a transporter, so are we to believe he somehow ran to one and energised it in a couple of seconds? And how come the Enterprise's internal sensors didn't notice a foreign person beaming aboard?
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