History Headscratchers / Skyfall

4th Apr '16 1:38:20 PM Daethalion
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** Even taking all of the above into consideration, it's no stretch to assume that with all of the trauma Bond went through within the space of a few minutes that he would have at least been unconscious - and he certainly looked it in the brief view we see of him falling from the bridge. How did he manage to avoid ''drowning''?
9th Nov '15 7:49:45 AM kalliston
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** Severine's dress, though the back paneling is sheer, is clearly meant to show off the bare skin underneath at least as much as the decorative beadwork, etc.
25th Oct '15 1:31:01 PM Dragon101
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*** Silva said he was captured by the Chinese in '97, but that he had been stationed in Hong Kong since the 80's. So it's actually pretty easy to explain- M was his boss until around '94-95, when she was promoted from Station Chief to Head of [=MI6=] (or, she was promoted earlier to some other position and went from there). It makes perfect sense that the decision to trade a rogue agent for six prisoners is a decision left to the M, not to a station chief, so Silva only went rogue after she left. Nowhere does the movie say that M was station chief in '97.



Why didn't ''Eve'' take a second shot? Patrice was wide open after she accidentally hit Bond, so she could have eliminated him and stopped him from delivering the list right then.

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* Why didn't ''Eve'' take a second shot? Patrice was wide open after she accidentally hit Bond, so she could have eliminated him and stopped him from delivering the list right then.then.
** Shock at shooting Bond.



** The problem with these explanations is that, firstly, there were numerous other- ''safer''- ways to get close to M (eg. Bond seems to break into her house at will, in two different movies; Silva seems to know where M is 24/7); second, there were numerous things that both could and frankly ''should'' have gone wrong- it is, like many parts of his plan, an example of the villain appearing competent because the heroes are ''in''competent. Bond could have chosen not to miss with the shot underground; Q could have not plugged the laptop in or had it taken away to a safer location (or just failed to find the trap); M could have put more guards on him or otherwise took better measures to stop his escape; M could have left the hearing upon learning that Silva escaped; Bond could have chosen to kill him on the island; Silva could have been locked up somewhere else; etc., etc. It just comes across as an attempt to make him like The Joker from ''Film/TheDarkKnight'', except that a) Bond, unlike Batman, does not subscribe to ThouShallNotKill, b) [=MI6=] are usually written as a ''lot'' more competent and sophisticated than the Gotham Police Dept., and c) The Joker would consider being killed by the heroes a victory anyway, so whether his plan to get captured failed did not matter. And for that matter, d), TheJoker made a lot of stuff up on the fly, or only planned a few days earlier- according to Q, Silva supposedly plotted everything out years ago, which means he planned for things [[GambitRoulette he had no business planning for]] (such as the bomb in the underground or knowing for definite when and where and even '''that''' M would be hauled before a parliamentry committee).

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** The problem with these explanations is that, firstly, there were numerous other- ''safer''- ways to get close to M (eg. Bond seems to break into her house at will, in two different movies; Silva seems to know where M is 24/7); second, there were numerous things that both could and frankly ''should'' have gone wrong- it is, like many parts of his plan, an example of the villain appearing competent because the heroes are ''in''competent. Bond could have chosen not to miss with the shot underground; Q could have not plugged the laptop in or had it taken away to a safer location (or just failed to find the trap); M could have put more guards on him or otherwise took better measures to stop his escape; M could have left the hearing upon learning that Silva escaped; Bond could have chosen to kill him on the island; Silva could have been locked up somewhere else; etc., etc. It just comes across as an attempt to make him like The Joker from ''Film/TheDarkKnight'', except that a) Bond, unlike Batman, does not subscribe to ThouShallNotKill, b) [=MI6=] are usually written as a ''lot'' more competent and sophisticated than the Gotham Police Dept., and c) The Joker would consider being killed by the heroes a victory anyway, so whether his plan to get captured failed did not matter. And for that matter, d), TheJoker made a lot of stuff up on the fly, or only planned a few days earlier- according to Q, Silva supposedly plotted everything out years ago, which means he planned for things [[GambitRoulette he had no business planning for]] (such as the bomb in the underground or knowing for definite when and where and even '''that''' M would be hauled before a parliamentry parliamentary committee).



** What did the owner of the casino give Bond along with the money? After Bond is given the case the guy hands him what looks like a set of keys and says "With compliments of the house." After watching the movie a second time I assumed they were the keys to Bond's Aston Martin later in the movie, but that doesn't seem likely. Am I missing something?
** It's a stack of casino chips.



* What did the owner of the casino give Bond along with the money? After Bond is given the case the guy hands him what looks like a set of keys and says "With compliments of the house." After watching the movie a second time I assumed they were the keys to Bond's Aston Martin later in the movie, but that doesn't seem likely. Am I missing something?
** It's a stack of casino chips.


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*** It's doubtful that anyone else she sent would have done any better, given that Silva was playing everyone from the beginning. At the end of the day, Bond is and remains the best agent they have, regardless of hangups and screwups. Also, it's not just Bond who screws up- M tells Eve to shoot despite Eve saying she'll likely hit Bond; Eve indeed shoots and hits Bond; Q unwittingly gives Silva access to [=MI6=]s system; M doesn't bother warning the committee that a madman is coming to kill her and anyone in his way (maybe she doesn't like them very much); Silva plans for things that should be impossible...Basically, Bond is only as good as the people supporting him.
14th May '15 11:48:41 PM erforce
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** It's in the same continuity as Film/CasinoRoyale and Film/QuantumOfSolace, which is a reboot to the original Bond franchise. In this continuity, Bond wasn't even a 00 agent before the 21st century (see the opening to Film/CasinoRoyale), so Dr No and Goldfinger can't have happened.

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** It's in the same continuity as Film/CasinoRoyale Film/CasinoRoyale2006 and Film/QuantumOfSolace, which is a reboot to the original Bond franchise. In this continuity, Bond wasn't even a 00 agent before the 21st century (see the opening to Film/CasinoRoyale), Film/CasinoRoyale2006), so Dr No Film/DrNo and Goldfinger Film/{{Goldfinger}} can't have happened.



*** I was under the impression that the car was the one that Bond won in ''Film/CasinoRoyale''. As to the modding thing, well he's a secret agent. Wouldn't it make sense to have a car loaded with guns [[CrazyPrepared just in case]]?

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*** I was under the impression that the car was the one that Bond won in ''Film/CasinoRoyale''.''Film/CasinoRoyale2006''. As to the modding thing, well he's a secret agent. Wouldn't it make sense to have a car loaded with guns [[CrazyPrepared just in case]]?



** I was under the impression it was just one of many Cold War relic cars used by 00 agents that just happened to be lying around in a hidden cache somewhere because you never know when you need older tech for RockBeatsLaser and Bond just got the idea to use it. It just so happened to have the features and license plate found in the pre-Film/CasinoRoyale Bond films.

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** I was under the impression it was just one of many Cold War relic cars used by 00 agents that just happened to be lying around in a hidden cache somewhere because you never know when you need older tech for RockBeatsLaser and Bond just got the idea to use it. It just so happened to have the features and license plate found in the pre-Film/CasinoRoyale pre-Film/CasinoRoyale2006 Bond films.



** He doesn't outrank M. M answers only to the Prime Minister directly (though she still has to answer Parliament's questions). Mallory is assigned as a monitor and facilitator for M's transition, but his job doesn't outrank hers, the opposite, since he's beholden to the Minister of Defense. As such, his promotion to M really is a promotion, since he's not working with far less oversight and answers only to the Prime Minister. Remember that M's first scene in ''Film/CasinoRoyale'' had her letting off this rant at Villiers after learning of Bond's recklessness tracking down Mollaka to the embassy:

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** He doesn't outrank M. M answers only to the Prime Minister directly (though she still has to answer Parliament's questions). Mallory is assigned as a monitor and facilitator for M's transition, but his job doesn't outrank hers, the opposite, since he's beholden to the Minister of Defense. As such, his promotion to M really is a promotion, since he's not working with far less oversight and answers only to the Prime Minister. Remember that M's first scene in ''Film/CasinoRoyale'' ''Film/CasinoRoyale2006'' had her letting off this rant at Villiers after learning of Bond's recklessness tracking down Mollaka to the embassy:



* M's name is so secret that she threatens to have Bond killed for mentioning it in Film/CasinoRoyale, but [[spoiler:she's dragged in front of an apparently public parliamentary committee in this movie. Would it not be exceedingly awkward for this meeting to proceed without her name ever being mentioned once, especially if the news were there?]]

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* M's name is so secret that she threatens to have Bond killed for mentioning it in Film/CasinoRoyale, Film/CasinoRoyale2006, but [[spoiler:she's dragged in front of an apparently public parliamentary committee in this movie. Would it not be exceedingly awkward for this meeting to proceed without her name ever being mentioned once, especially if the news were there?]]
13th May '15 10:12:29 AM dmcreif
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** I figured Silva had already given the 5 names to MI6's enemies by some other means, and posting it on YouTube was just further mocking them. It would make sense with his motivations.

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** I figured Silva had already given the 5 names to MI6's enemies by some other means, and posting it on to YouTube was just further mocking them. It would make sense with his motivations.Given who he is, that wouldn't be entirely out-of-character for him.



** Mixed passenger and freight was quite common on branch lines in the UK until the 1950s; it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it's still used in rural Turkey for places with a service only once a week or so.

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** Mixed passenger and freight was quite common on branch lines in the UK until the 1950s; 1950s. And up until about ten years ago, in the United States, some of Amtrak's long-haul trains had express mail cars attached at the rear of the train. So it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it's still used in rural Turkey for places with a service only once a week or so.



** Well, as far as she knows she DID just kill her partner, who may or may not have been the best agent in M16. That's a very big OhCrap to have to absorb. Eve does wind up agreeing that she isn't cut out for field work, and IMO it had less to do from missing a near-impossible shot, to how she obviously ''froze up'' afterwards and failed to finish the mission.

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** Well, as far as she knows she DID just kill her partner, who may or may not have been the best agent in M16. That's a very big OhCrap to have to absorb. Eve does wind up agreeing that she isn't cut out for field work, and IMO it had less to do from missing a near-impossible shot, to how she obviously ''froze up'' afterwards and failed to finish the mission.take a follow-up shot.



** Despite the fact that Q actually namedrops it in the film, Security Through Obscurity is ''not repeat not'' a valid security technique, to the point where if one of your team suggests using it, ''you fire them on the spot'' and sue the HR department who said they were qualified. It does not work. In this specific case... you really think <hostile foreign agency> doesn't have the resources to simply kill all ten thousand decoys? 'Cause they do, and they will, and your ass is going in front of that congressional committee. (Or out behind the chemical sheds.)

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** Despite the fact that Q actually namedrops it in the film, Security Through Obscurity is ''not repeat not'' a valid security technique, to the point where if one of your team suggests using it, ''you should fire them on the spot'' and sue the HR department who said they were qualified. It does not work. In this specific case... you really think <hostile foreign agency> doesn't have the resources to simply kill all ten thousand decoys? 'Cause they do, and they will, and your ass is going in front of that congressional committee. (Or out behind the chemical sheds.)


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** I concur. Perhaps Moneypenny and Bond knew Patrice was a gun-for-hire, so they wanted to find out who his employer was and why the employer wanted that computer list.


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[[folder:Silva's attack on M at the hearing]]
* When "Constable Silva" first barges in and begins shooting, he has two cop henchmen with him: one white-skinned and one dark-skinned. During the shootout, we clearly see the white-skinned cop-henchman get shot dead by Mallory. When Silva exits, he's all alone, and we don't see the dark-skinned henchman. Did we ever see him exit? Or did one of the good guys manage to shoot him and we didn't see that particular shot get fired?
[[/folder]]
26th Apr '15 1:53:51 PM erforce
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** I think it depends on what you want to accept, and what you don't. Bond has obviously been in the game awhile, since the movie's theme is about him being a relic of the age of espionage. They reference Goldeneye with the exploding pen remark and Goldfinger with the DB5. On the other hand, the way Moneypenny's name is dropped in the end, Bond makes no mention of having ever heard the name before, implying she's the first (although M and Q are clearly well-worn code names). I was running on the assumption that they were finally putting an end to the floating timeline until the Moneypenny scene, when I had to question everything. Up until then, though, I saw very little evidence that this is a reboot.

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** I think it depends on what you want to accept, and what you don't. Bond has obviously been in the game awhile, since the movie's theme is about him being a relic of the age of espionage. They reference Goldeneye ''Film/GoldenEye'' with the exploding pen remark and Goldfinger ''Film/{{Goldfinger}}'' with the DB5. On the other hand, the way Moneypenny's name is dropped in the end, Bond makes no mention of having ever heard the name before, implying she's the first (although M and Q are clearly well-worn code names). I was running on the assumption that they were finally putting an end to the floating timeline until the Moneypenny scene, when I had to question everything. Up until then, though, I saw very little evidence that this is a reboot.



*** ...except GoldenEye makes it clear that Dench-M was recently promoted to that position, replacing the previous male M who had overseen Bond up to that point. This is incompatible with Casino Royale's assertion that Bond was hired on by Dench-M. It's a hard ContinuitySnarl that has no rational in-universe resolution.

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*** ...except GoldenEye Film/GoldenEye makes it clear that Dench-M was recently promoted to that position, replacing the previous male M who had overseen Bond up to that point. This is incompatible with Casino Royale's assertion that Bond was hired on by Dench-M. It's a hard ContinuitySnarl that has no rational in-universe resolution.
26th Apr '15 6:58:19 AM oreo
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** I figured Silva had already given the 5 names to MI6's enemies by some other means, and posting it on YouTube was just further mocking them. It would make sense with his motivations.
24th Apr '15 12:41:12 PM dmcreif
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** Put it in [=USian=] terms for American Tropers: a Congressman on the Intelligence Committee gets appointed to be head of the CIA. It's not a demotion, it's a lateral move from the legislative branch to the executive.
** He doesn't outrank M. M answers only to the Prime Minister directly (though she still has to answer Parliament's questions). Mallory is assigned as a monitor and facilitator for M's transition, but his job doesn't outrank hers, the opposite, since he's beholden to the Minister of Defense. As such, his promotion to M really is a promotion, since he's not working with far less oversight and answers only to the Prime Minister. M's own line in Casino Royale:
-->''':M''' Who the hell do they think they are? I report to the Prime Minister, and even he's smart enough not to ask me what we do. Have you ever seen such a bunch of self-righteous, arse-covering prigs? They don't care what we do; they care what we get photographed doing.

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** Put it in [=USian=] terms for American Tropers: a Congressman on the Intelligence Committee gets appointed to be head director of the CIA. It's not a demotion, it's a lateral move sideways transfer from the legislative branch to the executive.
** He doesn't outrank M. M answers only to the Prime Minister directly (though she still has to answer Parliament's questions). Mallory is assigned as a monitor and facilitator for M's transition, but his job doesn't outrank hers, the opposite, since he's beholden to the Minister of Defense. As such, his promotion to M really is a promotion, since he's not working with far less oversight and answers only to the Prime Minister. Remember that M's own line first scene in Casino Royale:
-->''':M'''
''Film/CasinoRoyale'' had her letting off this rant at Villiers after learning of Bond's recklessness tracking down Mollaka to the embassy:
-->'''M:'''
Who the hell do they think they are? I report to the Prime Minister, and even he's smart enough not to ask me what we do. Have you ever seen such a bunch of self-righteous, arse-covering prigs? They don't care what we do; they care what we get photographed doing.



** It could be a nod to the "coming out of the shadows" theme; notably, members of the Intelligence and Security Committee (i.e Mallory) are either [=MP=]s or Lords and, thus, are very public figures. Then again, the first time we see her in Casino Royale she's coming out of a press conference.

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** It could be a nod to the "coming out of the shadows" theme; notably, members of the Intelligence and Security Committee (i.e Mallory) are either [=MP=]s or Lords and, thus, are very public figures. Then again, the first time we see her in Casino Royale ''Casino Royale'' she's coming out of a press conference.conference or committee hearing regarding Bond's killing of the parkour bombmaker.



** Its most likely that the dose was to small to actually kill him, but that's just a guess.

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** Its most likely that the dose was to too small to actually kill him, but that's just a guess.
23rd Apr '15 8:15:37 AM moloch
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** Put it in USian terms for American Tropers: a Congressman on the Intelligence Committee gets appointed to be head of the CIA. It's not a demotion, it's a lateral move from the legislative branch to the executive.
** He doesn't outrank M. M answers only to the Prime Minister directly (Though she still has to answer Parliament's questions). Mallory is assigned as a monitor and facillitator for M's transition, but his job doesn't outrank hers, the opposite, since he's beholden to the Minister of Defense. As such, his Promotion to M really is a Promotion, since he's not working with far less oversight and answers only to the Prime Minister. M's own line in Casino Royale:
->Who the hell do they think they are? I report to the Prime Minister, and even he's smart enough not to ask me what we do. Have you ever seen such a bunch of self-righteous, arse-covering prigs? They don't care what we do; they care what we get photographed doing

to:

** Put it in USian [=USian=] terms for American Tropers: a Congressman on the Intelligence Committee gets appointed to be head of the CIA. It's not a demotion, it's a lateral move from the legislative branch to the executive.
** He doesn't outrank M. M answers only to the Prime Minister directly (Though (though she still has to answer Parliament's questions). Mallory is assigned as a monitor and facillitator facilitator for M's transition, but his job doesn't outrank hers, the opposite, since he's beholden to the Minister of Defense. As such, his Promotion promotion to M really is a Promotion, promotion, since he's not working with far less oversight and answers only to the Prime Minister. M's own line in Casino Royale:
->Who -->''':M''' Who the hell do they think they are? I report to the Prime Minister, and even he's smart enough not to ask me what we do. Have you ever seen such a bunch of self-righteous, arse-covering prigs? They don't care what we do; they care what we get photographed doingdoing.
9th Feb '15 7:42:51 AM erforce
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* When M is in the car near the beginning, her aide reports that the stolen hard drive is being decrypted, and they're getting a signal. Um...how? The data on the drive doesn't know whether it's being decrypted or not. If you ran a ''program'' on the drive it might phone home, but who would ever do that? It should go without saying that you should never run exe files on an enemy hard drive. The best I can figure is that the hard drive is outfitted with a radio transmitter that broadcasts a signal whenever the drive spins, a la the first MissionImpossible movie. However, the aide specifically says that the signal is coming from behind the MI 6 firewall, which means it's a network signal and not a simple broadcast. So...how does that work?

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* When M is in the car near the beginning, her aide reports that the stolen hard drive is being decrypted, and they're getting a signal. Um...how? The data on the drive doesn't know whether it's being decrypted or not. If you ran a ''program'' on the drive it might phone home, but who would ever do that? It should go without saying that you should never run exe files on an enemy hard drive. The best I can figure is that the hard drive is outfitted with a radio transmitter that broadcasts a signal whenever the drive spins, a la the first MissionImpossible ''Film/MissionImpossible'' movie. However, the aide specifically says that the signal is coming from behind the MI 6 firewall, which means it's a network signal and not a simple broadcast. So...how does that work?
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