History Headscratchers / ReturnOfTheJedi

17th Nov '16 11:23:40 AM nombretomado
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*** RE: The ''{{Clerks}}'' argument and the 'civilian contractors', what a lot of people who cite it as part of a "was the Empire really ''that'' evil/were the Rebels really ''that'' good?" argument tend to forget/ignore is that in the ''very same scene'', someone else essentially points out that those civilian contractors were working on a huge-ass battleship (called ''The Death Star'', for cryin' out loud -- how big a clue do you need?) being constructed for the military of a powerful empire that was embroiled in an ongoing conflict, and had to know on some level the dangers they were facing and what they were potentially getting themselves in for even if they choose not to acknowledge it (and if they genuinely ''didn't'' know what they're getting themselves in for they are, at best, ''very'' naive). Volunteers or not, civilians or not, if you work building battleships during a war you don't get to cry foul if someone from the other side tries to drop a bomb on you to stop you building battleships. As for whether the Empire was bad just because it managed to get people to support/volunteer for it, that, frankly, means absolutely diddly-- hate to go Godwins, but people supported/volunteered for the Nazis. And most of ''them'' did so not out of genuine commitment but because they were terrified of the consequences of not doing so. Popular support (or the appearance of same) doesn't make you right/good.

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*** RE: The ''{{Clerks}}'' ''Film/{{Clerks}}'' argument and the 'civilian contractors', what a lot of people who cite it as part of a "was the Empire really ''that'' evil/were the Rebels really ''that'' good?" argument tend to forget/ignore is that in the ''very same scene'', someone else essentially points out that those civilian contractors were working on a huge-ass battleship (called ''The Death Star'', for cryin' out loud -- how big a clue do you need?) being constructed for the military of a powerful empire that was embroiled in an ongoing conflict, and had to know on some level the dangers they were facing and what they were potentially getting themselves in for even if they choose not to acknowledge it (and if they genuinely ''didn't'' know what they're getting themselves in for they are, at best, ''very'' naive). Volunteers or not, civilians or not, if you work building battleships during a war you don't get to cry foul if someone from the other side tries to drop a bomb on you to stop you building battleships. As for whether the Empire was bad just because it managed to get people to support/volunteer for it, that, frankly, means absolutely diddly-- hate to go Godwins, but people supported/volunteered for the Nazis. And most of ''them'' did so not out of genuine commitment but because they were terrified of the consequences of not doing so. Popular support (or the appearance of same) doesn't make you right/good.



** I think I've been over this before on the archives page, and it's the same reason why Randall in {{Clerks}} shouldn't have feared so much for the construction workers: ''it was obviously never meant to look complete'', or at least not until after the Battle of Endor. Remember that they were ''luring'' the rebellion into a trap (no, I'm not going to say it). They wanted them to ''think'' that the Death Star was still too incomplete to be operational when in fact it was working just fine. The incomplete look was a large part of the ruse. They were good to go, as they proved. Probably afterward they would have brought the construction crew back but for the time being this was exactly how the Death Star was meant to be.

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** I think I've been over this before on the archives page, and it's the same reason why Randall in {{Clerks}} ''Film/{{Clerks}}'' shouldn't have feared so much for the construction workers: ''it was obviously never meant to look complete'', or at least not until after the Battle of Endor. Remember that they were ''luring'' the rebellion into a trap (no, I'm not going to say it). They wanted them to ''think'' that the Death Star was still too incomplete to be operational when in fact it was working just fine. The incomplete look was a large part of the ruse. They were good to go, as they proved. Probably afterward they would have brought the construction crew back but for the time being this was exactly how the Death Star was meant to be.
22nd Aug '16 2:08:23 PM CrypticMirror
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** When we see Luke use the Force to move something, he has to close his eyes, take his time and concentrate to very slowly move [=C-3P0=] around a handful of feet. He is simply not at the point where he can reliably use it on the move, during a fight, while he's got to concentrate on other things like not running into trees at 100 MPH.

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** When we see Luke use the Force to move something, he has to close his eyes, take his time and concentrate to very slowly move [=C-3P0=] around a handful of feet. He is simply not at the point where he can reliably use it on the move, during a fight, while he's got to concentrate on other things like not running into trees at 100 MPH.MPH.
** Luke is by training, and personality, a fighter pilot. He is used to piloting space fighters and speeders, when the speeder bikes take off like they do it is far more in-character for him to impulsively jump on and give chase and try to shoot them down. Hanging back, using telekinesis and taking a more measured approach is just not (yet) in his nature. Perhaps he thought later "oh snap, I could have Force shoved them", but in the heat of the moment; no.
22nd Aug '16 8:39:50 AM MrDeath
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* Why doesn't Luke use TK during the speeder-bike fight? The whole thing seemed a lot harder than it should be for a Jedi.

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\n** Maybe it did. We don't see him do much with the hand aside from lugging Vader around. It's not like he has to do anything with a lot of dexterity at that point.

* Why doesn't Luke use TK during the speeder-bike fight? The whole thing seemed a lot harder than it should be for a Jedi.Jedi.
** When we see Luke use the Force to move something, he has to close his eyes, take his time and concentrate to very slowly move [=C-3P0=] around a handful of feet. He is simply not at the point where he can reliably use it on the move, during a fight, while he's got to concentrate on other things like not running into trees at 100 MPH.
21st Aug '16 7:48:15 PM Borjigin
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* Why didn't Luke's mechanical hand malfunction or something along the lines of it after the emperor's lightning? Doesn't lightning mess with electronics (ex. When the power goes out in a lightning storm)?

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* Why didn't Luke's mechanical hand malfunction or something along the lines of it after the emperor's lightning? Doesn't lightning mess with electronics (ex. When the power goes out in a lightning storm)?storm)?

* Why doesn't Luke use TK during the speeder-bike fight? The whole thing seemed a lot harder than it should be for a Jedi.
19th Jun '16 2:40:17 PM nombretomado
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** [[TheThrawnTrilogy Zahn's]] [[HandOfThrawn books]] cover this somewhat. In fact it was Zahn who invented the more "friendly" Imperial Remnant common in the "New Republic" EU publishing era (read: everything between ReturnOfTheJedi and the Literature/NewJediOrder series). Many of Zahn's books ask the question; what would the galaxy have been like if the Empire weren't ruled by a crazy Dark-side-obsessed narcissist? His books also point out that the New Republic is also not perfect and pretty much all of the "New Republic" era is focusing on the massive fallout, wars, rebellions, and power struggles that take place after the collapse of the Empire.

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** [[TheThrawnTrilogy [[Literature/TheThrawnTrilogy Zahn's]] [[HandOfThrawn [[Literature/HandOfThrawn books]] cover this somewhat. In fact it was Zahn who invented the more "friendly" Imperial Remnant common in the "New Republic" EU publishing era (read: everything between ReturnOfTheJedi and the Literature/NewJediOrder series). Many of Zahn's books ask the question; what would the galaxy have been like if the Empire weren't ruled by a crazy Dark-side-obsessed narcissist? His books also point out that the New Republic is also not perfect and pretty much all of the "New Republic" era is focusing on the massive fallout, wars, rebellions, and power struggles that take place after the collapse of the Empire.
16th Jun '16 6:43:54 PM Kawaii_Kailynn
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** A bigger question is why they ''didn't'' stick with this strategy! The Death Star's superlaser has a very specific field of fire, and the Rebel fleet could have slipped out of that kill zone simply by moving around it. This would have also forced the Imperial fleet to break formation, since if the Rebels moved their fleet behind the cover of the Death Star (and it's impenetrable deflector shield) then they would have been able to either prolong the space battle without having to worry about the Death Star's firepower, or been able to break out of orbit and jump to lightspeed.

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** A bigger question is why they ''didn't'' stick with this strategy! The Death Star's superlaser has a very specific field of fire, and the Rebel fleet could have slipped out of that kill zone simply by moving around it. This would have also forced the Imperial fleet to break formation, since if the Rebels moved their fleet behind the cover of the Death Star (and it's impenetrable deflector shield) then they would have been able to either prolong the space battle without having to worry about the Death Star's firepower, or been able to break out of orbit and jump to lightspeed.lightspeed.

* Why didn't Luke's mechanical hand malfunction or something along the lines of it after the emperor's lightning? Doesn't lightning mess with electronics (ex. When the power goes out in a lightning storm)?
20th May '16 7:08:52 PM lorgskyegon
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** There are aquifers on Tatooine. They are rare and fiercely guarded by those who know about them (mostly Sand People). Other beings get their liquid through local plant life, chiefly the hubba gourd.
20th May '16 7:02:52 PM lorgskyegon
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** Both Vader and the Emperor know that the other is plotting to kill them and take Luke as an apprentice. But they can't exactly reveal that in front of the other.




** The Expanded Universe claims that Jedi enter the Netherworld of the Force upon death, thus merging with the Force, but can return briefly to provide guidance or delay their merging as spirits. Sith believe that death is permanent so their ghosts are probably more of the latter. Though that only explains Force sensitives, every living being has some connection with the Force, so if this is canon then that means that Anakin and Padre would both exist in the Netherworld together upon death.

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\n** The Expanded Universe claims that While it hasn't been brought up in canon (except for the quick line from Han in ESB), Jedi enter go to a realm known as the Netherworld of the Force. Force upon death, thus merging with ghosts go there, but are able to return for a short period of time (Obi Wan talked to Luke for the Force, final time near the beginning of the Thrawn campaign about 9 years later). Sith go to a region called Chaos or the Void (or Hell in Corellian mythology). They are unable to become true Force ghosts, but can return briefly to provide guidance or delay bind their merging as spirits. Sith believe that death is permanent so their ghosts are probably more of the latter. Though that only explains Force sensitives, every living being has souls to some connection with object or location through the Force, so if this is canon then that means that Anakin and Padre would both exist in sacrifice of others, such as the Netherworld together upon death.
Karness Muur (bound to the Muur Talisman) or Exar Kun (bound to his temple on Yavin IV).
20th May '16 6:43:19 PM lorgskyegon
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Added DiffLines:

** If you take into account ''Literature/ShadowsOfTheEmpire'', which George Lucas had a direct hand in, the primary contractor for the second Death Star was Prince Xizor, a galactic-level Godfather. Not exactly a sympathetic figure to work for.
20th May '16 6:23:22 PM lorgskyegon
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** Once it breaks off from the superstructure, it stays in one spot and the Death Star keeps orbiting Endor.
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