History Headscratchers / RedDawn1984

19th Mar '18 1:27:35 PM FinalFan
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** Just because they are an invading army doesn't mean they are still people. People who have hobbies and loved ones and dreams. It's like people who are weirded out by pictures of evil people throughout history doing regular things. It's not like Hitler spent all his free time sitting in the dark, wringing his hands, and muttering "Jews...".

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** Just because they are an invading army doesn't mean they are still people. People who have hobbies and loved ones and dreams. It's like people who are weirded out by pictures of evil people throughout history doing regular things. It's not like Hitler spent all his free time sitting in the dark, wringing his hands, and muttering "Jews...".".
*Something that confuses me is the opening scene, and its juxtaposition with a few other elements. 1. Why are these Russian soldiers not only firing on unarmed civilians at a rural high school, but expending precious resources such as rockets on destroying said high school? It literally serves no purpose other than from a narrative standpoint to show that the enemy is bad. And they just keep committing atrocities in their occupied territory, such as mass graves and raping the local women, yet Bella remarks multiple times about how these kinds of things led to guerilla warfare. That leads into 2. If you know so much about what causes partisans to form, WHY DON'T YOU STOP CAUSING THE THINGS THAT MAKE PEOPLE REBEL AGAINST YOU?!? This literally only happens until the new commander comes in and tells them there will be no more civilian reprisals, which brings me to 3. How can a Spetsnaz soldier invoke the Geneva Convention when his side is just as guilty of war crimes as his opponents?
14th Dec '17 8:53:03 PM TheD3rp
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**** Old tech now, maybe (This is debatable as the T-90 is essentially an incredibly modernized T-72), but back in the 1980s the T-72 was a top-of-the-line main battle tank. Its closest US counterpart was the M60A3, which still used a 105mm rifled gun and lacked composite armor. The problem with basing the T-72's performance on combat experience is that the Russians generally strip their tanks of the important stuff like good ERA and ammunition before sending them to foreign powers, which results in incredibly lopsided match-ups against Western tanks.
27th Oct '17 9:09:26 AM lorgskyegon
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** Plus, this is the Soviet Army. Failure to [[JustFollowingOrders just follow orders]] tends to result in you [[YouHaveFailedMe sharing a grave with the people you're supposed to be oppressing]].

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** Plus, this is the Soviet Army. Failure to [[JustFollowingOrders just follow orders]] tends to result in you [[YouHaveFailedMe sharing a grave with the people you're supposed to be oppressing]].oppressing]].
** Just because they are an invading army doesn't mean they are still people. People who have hobbies and loved ones and dreams. It's like people who are weirded out by pictures of evil people throughout history doing regular things. It's not like Hitler spent all his free time sitting in the dark, wringing his hands, and muttering "Jews...".
27th Oct '17 9:06:30 AM lorgskyegon
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** Plus, there is no chance that Tanner (an Air Force pilot) or the kids know how to operate a Russian tank.
19th Sep '17 4:49:07 AM CrowTR0bot
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** Would it have killed them to haul their loot a little further away from the ambush/dump site?
19th Sep '17 4:44:10 AM CrowTR0bot
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** The scene was probably haphazardly added when the writer realized he was getting a little ''too'' jingoistic. But it's really the banality of evil. Shooting civilians is their day job, and their failure to question their orders makes them terrible people, but they are still people, and [[WarIsHell war is hell]].

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** The scene was probably haphazardly added when the writer realized he was getting a little ''too'' jingoistic. But it's really the banality of evil. Shooting civilians is their day job, and their failure to question their orders makes them terrible people, but they are still people, and [[WarIsHell war is hell]].hell]].
** Plus, this is the Soviet Army. Failure to [[JustFollowingOrders just follow orders]] tends to result in you [[YouHaveFailedMe sharing a grave with the people you're supposed to be oppressing]].
4th May '17 9:46:25 PM Ansongc2000
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** You forget that the President isn't the only one involved in this decision. If the Russians nuked the midwest, took out NORAD(presumably) and invaded the midwest in an suprise first strike, if the President decided that even a soviet first strike and executing American civilians in occupied areas and putting Americans in gulags wasn't enough to warrent nuclear reliation, I can imagine congress, not to mention to Joint Chiefs and the DoD, would be looking for anyway to remove the President from office and put someone into office who would strike back. Though just allowing the Russians to invade the US mainland and Nuke us would likely be more the enough for the president's approval rating to drop to 0% pretty damn quickly. Refusing to strike back would be asking for a military coup.

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** You forget that the President isn't the only one involved in this decision. If the Russians nuked the midwest, took out NORAD(presumably) and invaded the midwest in an suprise surprise first strike, if the President decided that even a soviet first strike and executing American civilians in occupied areas and putting Americans in gulags wasn't enough to warrent warrant nuclear reliation, retaliation, I can imagine congress, not to mention to Joint Chiefs and the DoD, would be looking for anyway to remove the President from office and put someone into office who would strike back. Though just allowing the Russians to invade the US mainland and Nuke us would likely be more the enough for the president's approval rating to drop to 0% pretty damn quickly. Refusing to strike back would be asking for a military coup.
** So the film's scenario was unrealistic. Gee, nobody's ever pointed that our before.



* Is it just me, or is the NotSoDifferent moment in the movie completely pointless? In what way are the Wolverines in any way like the Soviets? The Soviets are an invading force that has used nuclear warfare and executed civilians. The Wolverines have...killed enemy combatants. Not to mention they're guerilla fighters and dont have the capacity to take and keep prisoners of war, making execution the only logistical alternative. So how exactly does the comparison work?

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* Is it just me, or is the NotSoDifferent moment in the movie completely pointless? In what way are the Wolverines in any way like the Soviets? The Soviets are an invading force that has used nuclear warfare and executed civilians. The Wolverines have...killed enemy combatants. Not to mention they're guerilla fighters and dont don't have the capacity to take and keep prisoners of war, making execution the only logistical alternative. So how exactly does the comparison work?
18th Apr '17 3:02:33 PM Ansongc2000
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** The scene was probably haphazardly added when the writer realized he was getting a little ''too'' jingoistic. But it's really the banality of evil. Shooting civilians is their day job, and their failure to question their orders makes them terrible people, but they are still people, and [[WarIsHell]].

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** The scene was probably haphazardly added when the writer realized he was getting a little ''too'' jingoistic. But it's really the banality of evil. Shooting civilians is their day job, and their failure to question their orders makes them terrible people, but they are still people, and [[WarIsHell]].[[WarIsHell war is hell]].
18th Apr '17 3:01:43 PM Ansongc2000
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** Except they are LITERALLY INVADERS. Who shoot down unarmed, helpless civilians in the street. Even the most naive, idealistic soldier would have trouble justifying that to themselves. You cant invade a country and complain when the people living there shoot at you.

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** Except they are LITERALLY INVADERS. Who shoot down unarmed, helpless civilians in the street. Even the most naive, idealistic soldier would have trouble justifying that to themselves. You cant invade a country and complain when the people living there shoot at you.you.
** The scene was probably haphazardly added when the writer realized he was getting a little ''too'' jingoistic. But it's really the banality of evil. Shooting civilians is their day job, and their failure to question their orders makes them terrible people, but they are still people, and [[WarIsHell]].
8th Apr '17 10:32:10 PM Hawkeye86
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** The Soviet footsoldiers did not make the decision to launch nuclear weapons or invade a foreign nation. They're just some young guys serving their country and doing what they're told, not entirely unlike many of the Wolverines.
** Except they are LITERALLY INVADERS. Who shoot down unarmed, helpless civilians in the street. Even the most naive, idealistic soldier would have trouble justifying that to themselves. You cant invade a country and complain when the people living there shoot at you.
*** Yes they can, chalk it up to a combination of MoralMyopia and RealityIsUnrealistic. Consider the reaction of the general public, and coalition active combatants, during the 2000s to troop casualties in Iraq. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement And that is all I'm going to say on that subject]].

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** The Soviet footsoldiers foot soldiers did not make the decision to launch nuclear weapons or invade a foreign nation. They're just some young guys serving their country and doing what they're told, not entirely unlike many of the Wolverines.
** Except they are LITERALLY INVADERS. Who shoot down unarmed, helpless civilians in the street. Even the most naive, idealistic soldier would have trouble justifying that to themselves. You cant invade a country and complain when the people living there shoot at you.
*** Yes they can, chalk it up to a combination of MoralMyopia and RealityIsUnrealistic. Consider the reaction of the general public, and coalition active combatants, during the 2000s to troop casualties in Iraq. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement And that is all I'm going to say on that subject]].
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