History Headscratchers / RWBY

11th Jul '16 4:27:35 AM SirAdamus
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** [[spoiler: Okay, well, seeing as the other troper deleted the entire discussion that was here and refused to back up their claims (interestingly, claiming that my asking them to source their information, and pointing out that their 'confirmed in show' was incorrect, was me being 'too stubborn to admit that [I'm] wrong'), I'm just going to summarise the general gist of why Emerald didn't hit Yang with an illusion, and that Neo's semblance was used to cover up what actually happened, which was what was originally here:]]
*** [[spoiler: 1- Positioning. The first time we see Yang hit Mercury, he's behind her on the opposite side of the stage as she walks directly away. In the replay on the big screen afterwards, he was shown in the same prone position he was in at the end of the fight, ''ahead'' of Yang as she walked to the edge of the arena, and she had to walk directly around him. The way the fight ended could only have had Mercury land where he did from the first time we saw it. If Emerald had hit Yang with an illusion, Yang would have to have been punching at nothing at the end of the fight for Mercury to be in that position, which would have been commented on. Additionally, as mentioned before, Yang was walking directly away from Mercury, but was walking ''around'' him in the replay - Emerald can show you images, but she hasn't been seen to be able to make people move any differently than they think they're doing.]]
*** [[spoiler: 2- Emerald's illusions disappear when you try to attack them; in the fight with Amber, an illusion Emerald is hit and the real Emerald, surprised, revealed. In the fight between Penny and Pyrrha, the illusion swords disappear as Pyrrha's pulse hits them. From Yang's version of events, Mercury jumped at her and she punched him in the leg, we see her fist making direct contact. ''But'' in the replay, she only shoots at him, she doesn't directly hit him. If what Yang was seeing was the illusion, her fist should've gone through his leg. This is also a point against Emerald hitting Yang with an illusion earlier in the fight (as that's when it would have ''had'' to have started based on the positioning, if Yang was making swings at a fake Mercury, he would've disappeared the moment she made contact).]]
*** [[spoiler: 3- The emphasis on Neo. Neo's presence in 3x07 is hidden until the very end of the scene, there's no indication she's even there until the final pan shot (itself, weirdly significant, if Neo wasn't involved, why hide her? Just have her in a wide shot). Additionally, Cinder's congratulations to the group extends to ''include'' Neo on the same level, which seems a little strange if ''all'' she was doing was driving the getaway car.]]
*** [[spoiler: 4- Pragmatism. Cinder is a ''very'' careful and opportunistic villain, she planned for almost every eventuality and used new information to her advantage, to the point that the only things that surprised her were Pyrrha showing what she was truly capable of, as Cinder had no idea what her upper limit was, and Ruby's silver eyes, as they were something Cinder had no context for. Using Emerald's illusions against a combatant who fights fiercely at close quarters would be a very risky move because it would require a lot of precision that would be hard to maintain at a distance (and Em's other illusions weren't used for precision. They've been slow distractions or they've been big displays to throw the target off), if Yang doesn't react ''exactly'' as she needs to, they could risk blowing that illusions are being used to alter the outcome of fights, and potentially put Mercury at genuine risk of injury (Yang has ''immense'' base strength, if she'd hit higher than Mercury's leg when he's out of aura she could have torn him in half). Meanwhile, Cinder had access to Neo, who is capable of producing large illusions that she doesn't need to be near to maintain (in Painting the Town, her illusion of herself and Torchwick was, according to the volume 2 commentary, was present from the instant Neo showed up to block Yang's attack, allowing the pair to escape to the air ship some distance away), that ''everyone'', including cameras, would see. Neo showing the audience a slightly different ending to the fight and what followed explains the positioning difference and doesn't require near the same precision. Why ''wouldn't'' Cinder take advantage of what Neo can do whilst she still has Neo on a leash?]]
*** [[spoiler: 5- Why continue to obscure what happened in 3x07? When we catch up with the present in that episode, what happened in the fight is just flashes of what we saw from Yang's perspective - if Emerald truly was responsible there, why not show what really happened, OnceMoreWithClarity? There's no point keeping it hidden if Emerald really was the culprit. And as mentioned before, her illusion on the two medics was the only one referenced.]]
26th Jun '16 3:05:54 PM nic611
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** Actually Mercury only taunted Ruby about the fact that Pyrrha could kill Penny after Ruby looked horrified when she learned of the match-up and realized the implication of such circumstances currently going on. From that he might of just assumed that she was aware of what could happen and wanted to rub it in her face, which isn't out of character for him and even if he was wrong she would either be dead or learn about when its too late. As for not killing Ruby, she was as you said out in the open, even distraught and largely unable to defend herself at the moment Ruby still has an Aura Mercury needs to break before he can actually kill her and that would likely draw the attention of the people sitting just a couple feet away. Attention he doesn't need since he is not supposed to be in the stadium walking around let alone still on the same continent. As for smiling about what happened Mercury seems to enjoy other peoples suffering so even if he failed to kill Ruby he still kept her from interfering and got to see her heartbroken and crying for her failure, which he might consider a good consolation prize.

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** Actually Mercury only taunted Ruby about the fact that Pyrrha could kill Penny after Ruby looked horrified when she learned of the match-up and realized the implication of such circumstances currently going on. From that he might of just assumed that she was aware of what could happen and wanted to rub it in her face, which isn't out of character for him and even if he was wrong she would either be dead or learn about when its too late. As for not killing Ruby, she was as you said out in the open, even distraught and largely unable to defend herself at the moment Ruby still has an Aura Mercury needs to break before he can actually kill her and that would likely draw the attention of the people sitting just a couple feet away. Attention he doesn't need since he is not supposed to be in the stadium walking around let alone still on the same continent. As for smiling about what happened Mercury seems to enjoy other peoples suffering so even if he failed to kill Ruby he still kept her from interfering and got to see her heartbroken and crying for over her failure, which he might consider a good consolation prize.
26th Jun '16 3:04:55 PM nic611
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** Actually Mercury only taunted Ruby about the fact that Pyrrha could kill Penny after Ruby looked horrified when she learned of the match-up and realized the implication of such circumstances currently going on. From that he might of just assumed that she was aware of what could happen and wanted to rub it in her face, which isn't out of character for him and even if he was wrong she would either be dead or learn about when its too late. As for not killing Ruby, she was as you said out in the open, even distraught and largely unable to defend herself at the moment Ruby still has an Aura Mercury needs to break before he can actually kill her and that would likely draw the attention of the people sitting just a couple feet away. Attention he doesn't need since he is not supposed to be in the stadium walking around let alone still on the same continent.

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** Actually Mercury only taunted Ruby about the fact that Pyrrha could kill Penny after Ruby looked horrified when she learned of the match-up and realized the implication of such circumstances currently going on. From that he might of just assumed that she was aware of what could happen and wanted to rub it in her face, which isn't out of character for him and even if he was wrong she would either be dead or learn about when its too late. As for not killing Ruby, she was as you said out in the open, even distraught and largely unable to defend herself at the moment Ruby still has an Aura Mercury needs to break before he can actually kill her and that would likely draw the attention of the people sitting just a couple feet away. Attention he doesn't need since he is not supposed to be in the stadium walking around let alone still on the same continent. As for smiling about what happened Mercury seems to enjoy other peoples suffering so even if he failed to kill Ruby he still kept her from interfering and got to see her heartbroken and crying for her failure, which he might consider a good consolation prize.
26th Jun '16 3:01:45 PM nic611
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** Actually Mercury only taunted Ruby about the fact that Pyrrha could kill Penny after Ruby looked horrified when she learned of the match-up and realized the implication of such circumstances currently going on. From that he might of just assumed that she was aware of what could happen and wanted to rub it in her which isn't out of character for him and even if he was wrong she would either be dead or learn about it soon enough. As for not killing Ruby, she was as you said out in the open, even distraught and largely unable to defend herself at the moment Ruby still has an Aura Mercury needs to break before he can actually kill her and that would likely draw the attention of the people sitting just a couple feet away. Attention he doesn't need since he is not supposed to be in the stadium walking around let alone still on the same continent.

to:

** Actually Mercury only taunted Ruby about the fact that Pyrrha could kill Penny after Ruby looked horrified when she learned of the match-up and realized the implication of such circumstances currently going on. From that he might of just assumed that she was aware of what could happen and wanted to rub it in her face, which isn't out of character for him and even if he was wrong she would either be dead or learn about it soon enough.when its too late. As for not killing Ruby, she was as you said out in the open, even distraught and largely unable to defend herself at the moment Ruby still has an Aura Mercury needs to break before he can actually kill her and that would likely draw the attention of the people sitting just a couple feet away. Attention he doesn't need since he is not supposed to be in the stadium walking around let alone still on the same continent.
26th Jun '16 3:00:32 PM nic611
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** Actually Mercury only taunted Ruby about the fact that Pyrrha could kill Penny after Ruby looked horrified when she learned of the match-up and realized the implication of such circumstances currently going on. From that he might of just assumed that she was aware of what could happen and wanted to rub it in her which isn't out of character for him and even if he was wrong she would either be dead or learn about it soon enough. As for not killing Ruby, she was as you said out in the open, even distraught and largely unable to defend herself at the moment Ruby still has an Aura Mercury needs to break before he can actually kill her and that would likely draw the attention of the people sitting just a couple feet away. Attention he doesn't need since he is not supposed to be in the stadium walking around let alone still on the same continent.
26th Jun '16 2:31:32 PM AJSthe2nd
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** Mercury definitely seemed to be waiting for Ruby in particular. He taunts her that metal and polarity is a bad combination, which means they seemed to know or guess that Ruby knew Penny was a robot, and makes no attempt to keep their good guy facade up anymore suggesting he knew she was onto them. Then once he stops her from saving Penny and she's sitting there crushed, he comes up behind her but then just smirks and leaves her there instead of killing her when she's wide open. All of which suggests she was far more than a random student to them and they took care to single her out for that confrontation.
25th Jun '16 10:39:18 PM Zaptech
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* You're making way too much out of this. Emerald did not intend for anyone to figure out what she was doing. The Yatsuhashi illusion did not happen after he was taken out. In fact, it isn't until after Coco saw the illusion that Yatsuhashi was actually eliminated. As for Ruby and Velvet comparing what they saw, there's no way anyone could have reliably predicted they would meet up and compare notes in the single day between matches. Emerald sitting out in the open was obviously so she could create her illusion without anyone thinking it was suspicious; no one was looking for her and it was pure chance that Ruby saw her in the first place. Mercury being in the tunnels was simply Cinder's crew having someone ready to respond in case of the unexpected. They've done that before. Mercury was definitely trying to kill or at least delay Ruby in the tunnels; the fact that he didn't kill her was not because of a lack of trying but because she slipped away from him using her Semblance. Most importantly, at no point during any of the scenes involved Emerald, Mercury, or Cinder do they even hint that they wanted to ambush Ruby or that Ruby at all mattered beyond being another team in the tournament. You're creating a GambitRoulette where there isn't one.

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* ** You're making way too much out of this. Emerald did not intend for anyone to figure out what she was doing. The Yatsuhashi illusion did not happen after he was taken out. In fact, it isn't until after Coco saw the illusion that Yatsuhashi was actually eliminated. As for Ruby and Velvet comparing what they saw, there's no way anyone could have reliably predicted they would meet up and compare notes in the single day between matches. Emerald sitting out in the open was obviously so she could create her illusion without anyone thinking it was suspicious; no one was looking for her and it was pure chance that Ruby saw her in the first place. Mercury being in the tunnels was simply Cinder's crew having someone ready to respond in case of the unexpected. They've done that before. Mercury was definitely trying to kill or at least delay Ruby in the tunnels; the fact that he didn't kill her was not because of a lack of trying but because she slipped away from him using her Semblance. Most importantly, at no point during any of the scenes involved Emerald, Mercury, or Cinder do they even hint that they wanted to ambush Ruby or that Ruby at all mattered beyond being another team in the tournament. You're creating a GambitRoulette where there isn't one.
25th Jun '16 10:38:16 PM Zaptech
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* You're making way too much out of this. Emerald did not intend for anyone to figure out what she was doing. The Yatsuhashi illusion did not happen after he was taken out. In fact, it isn't until after Coco saw the illusion that Yatsuhashi was actually eliminated. As for Ruby and Velvet comparing what they saw, there's no way anyone could have reliably predicted they would meet up and compare notes in the single day between matches. Emerald sitting out in the open was obviously so she could create her illusion without anyone thinking it was suspicious; no one was looking for her and it was pure chance that Ruby saw her in the first place. Mercury being in the tunnels was simply Cinder's crew having someone ready to respond in case of the unexpected. They've done that before. Mercury was definitely trying to kill or at least delay Ruby in the tunnels; the fact that he didn't kill her was not because of a lack of trying but because she slipped away from him using her Semblance. Most importantly, at no point during any of the scenes involved Emerald, Mercury, or Cinder do they even hint that they wanted to ambush Ruby or that Ruby at all mattered beyond being another team in the tournament. You're creating a GambitRoulette where there isn't one.
25th Jun '16 3:03:07 AM AJSthe2nd
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[[folder:Did they want Ruby to catch on?]]

* So here's something I was thinking about on rewatch. Emerald uses her illusions on Coco during their fight. This is unnecessery, as Yatsuhashi was already downed so Mercury could have ran in and they could have double teamed her. Instead it risks exposing her power they needed to remain secret. Sure enough Coco mentions it to Velvet, who tells Ruby who quickly starts putting the pieces together when Yang also sees something that nobody else does. Since they've been scouting the place they'd definitely know Velvet is friends with Ruby and they might compare notes. Meanwhile even though Emerald could have used her power from a discreet place she's right front in center where Ruby sees her, and then Mercury cuts her off when she goes to confront her and certainly was expecting her to do this. By all accounts this seems to be set so Ruby deliberately catches onto their scheme at the last minute and goes to confront them. But why could they possibly want this? It isn't to kill her, as Mercury doesn't, it can't be because of her silver eyes since based on Cinder's reaction later she had no idea Ruby had this power, and if it was just to keep her from stopping the fight Cinder shouldn't know for certain Ruby knew Penny was a robot, and even then Mercury could have been waiting as a precaution and if she doesn't show then she couldn't know, but based on the Emerald thing they intentionally tried to get her suspicious ahead of time. This all seems to be an unneeded convolution that doesn't gain them anything especially since they otherwise had no interest in Ruby.
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25th Jun '16 2:35:01 AM AJSthe2nd
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** Here's another possible reason. Pyrrha's good at keeping secrets. She's managed to keep her magnetic ability underwraps for years, even though she uses it in plain sight. They want the Maiden's to be top secret, she's an ideal candidate AND she's the best chance at it not going public they have. Most of the other girls would have been able to keep it a secret nearly as well.
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