History Headscratchers / Persona4

* As far as I understand the Accomplice Ending; Yu burns incriminating evidence because he likes Adachi too much to get him busted. Adachi thinks he's an absolute chump and blackmails him for destroying evidence. The thing that bugs me: what's the point of blackmail? Yu doesn't have enough evidence to take him down anymore after that, and even if he makes well on his promise and tries to take down Yu, wouldn't that also get him busted as well? Is it a mutual kill type thing, or was Namatame still considered the killer by the police at this point and Adachi would've just insituated that he helped him?
** It wasn't a matter of law, but personal relationships. In that ending, Yu was able to confirm it was Adachi was the real killer, but not only let him go, but destroyed the only piece of evidence that could be used against him. He invalidated all the work his friends, his uncle, and he himself did for most of a year just because he happened to personally like the unrepentant murder. Several of said friends were the victims of the killer's plot, including his little cousin who is barely clinging to life because of it. Now imagine how all of these people, including his uncle who helplessly watched his daughter die, would react if they learned that the one they placed their trust in deliberately allowed that killer to get off Scot free on a whim. ''That'' is what Adachi has to blackmail Yu with: the utter destruction of the bonds he cherishes the most and the shame that he was too weak-willed to stick to his convictions when it really counted.

*** EvilIsSexy, my friend.

*** He [[I]]did[[/I]] intervene beyond his initial actions. When he threw Mitsuo in.

*** He [I]did[/I] intervene beyond his initial actions. When he threw Mitsuo in.

** Adachi likes the 'game' as it's been proceeding so far, even though he hasn't had to intervene beyond his initial actions of throwing Saki and Mayumi Yamano in, and telling Namatame to 'save people himself'. He knows that the kids have been saving people each time Namatame puts someone in, but it must have been getting a little bit stale. Letting someone else die would have spiced things up a little bit more. So it's just a coincidence - he could see the Midnight Channel, just like the team, and he knows Namatame will kidnap Nanako. He just decided to tilt the odds in his favour so he could have more fun.

** The same way everyone else survives the TV World before being rescued: the Shadows can't find them. Teddie outright says that the fog is so dense that the Shadows usually can't track anyone until the days it clears out and goes to the real world. The only exception to this are Persona users who stand out like a beacon to them. Shadow-Selves can find their owners just fine, but they don't want to harm them because their death would kill the Shadow, too. They just want to be accepted by their human selves. It's only after being denied enough that the Shadow-Self is enraged enough to kill their counterpart. Presumably, they only reach that point if the human ramps up the denial in response to having an audience see their deepest secrets like the Investigation Team. Otherwise, if they aren't found soon enough, the fog rolls out and normal Shadows likely swarm and devour whoever is left inside. At least, that's my headcanon as to why those tossed into the TV can last for weeks with their Shadow Selves, refuting everything they say and only get the big boss triggering official “You’re not me!!” moment when the Investigation Team comes.

* Sometimes the nonintegration of Social Links bugs me. I just got Dojima up to rank 9, and the next night, I hang out with Nanako. Despite the very night before Dojima made a speech about being a "real family" and giving her cake, Nanako gets frustrated about the whole parent-teacher thing, says he's not her "real dad" and runs off. It doesn't make very much sense.

** Who said anybody assumed that? I think they were just stating that she isn't married(assuming that Ms.Sofue, personally, would decide take the husbands last name) so her name couldn't ''possibly'' have changed. Wait, can last names be legally changed in court?

** Disappear? Then what the hell is Yosuke teaseing him about on 10/27?

*** Keep in mind, that the protagonist is able to enter a lover relatioship with everyone- at the same time. No reprucussions, whatsoever, this destroys any Chie/Yosuke, Naoto/Kanji, Rise/Protagonist- relationship potential, so in storyine they cannot act upon their emotions without screwing over the other possible 'lover' routes. My personal opinion on the matter of homosexuality is as Brosuke said "[Kanji's] emotions going haywire". I saw Kanji's feelings for Naoto so powerful, that he was still attracted to her- even when he thought she was a guy; he wasn't shown to have any 'intrests' in men until we saw Kanji with her (albeit we didn't see much of him before that) and as a previous troper stated, he obviously stil had intrests for her after she was 'revealed'. I found the perception that their (or at least Kanji's) subliminal connection was so intense as to make him think himself as gay; questioning his own identity, proved emotionally satisfying as a player. I was actually going for a homosexual character but damnit, they are so good together. I can also expand on this by adding he showed no interest in Brosuke or the the Protagonist aka the greatest player on earth.

*** I beg to differ. The fact that Izanami is even ''possible'' to kill via some kind of attack indicates that she's not at the same level as the other Gods in the Persona series - beings like Erebus, Nyarlathotep, and Philemon cannot be destroyed unless the fundemental nature of mankind changes (or if sentient life were to go extinct, I suppose), and Nyx cannot be destroyed period. Izanami seemed more like a "collective" Shadow; the cast-off bits of ego of an entire society. Such a being would be incredibly powerful, but still capable of being destroyed like other Shadows.

*** You can't really compare the SMT main series to the Persona series; the latter is much more symbolic and less {{Fantasy Kitchen Sink}} in nature. It also tends to hold to a more {{Cosmic Horror}} aesthetic in that the big nasties are impossible to truly destroy. Incidentally, a "physical manifestation of an everpresent concept"... Yeah, um, I don't know if you noticed, but that's ''the only kind of god'' in the Persona series - mythological gods don't exist other than as forms Personas and Shadows/Demons can take. And no, you cannot destroy Nyx. This was pretty blatantly stated. I don't know where you heard otherwise.

*** The presence of unnaturally intelligent animals like Koromaru and the Shrine Fox, as well as Shinji and the Sun arcana guy from 3 wishing you luck before fighting Nyx from beyond the grave, suggests there are some supernatural things out there not directly related to the human psyche and the Jung meets Lovecraft stuff. I mean yeah she could just a be a really powerful shadow that breaks the rules and has powers that are very weird even by their standards even if she isn't one of those unkillable manifestations of a basic idea like Philemon(who was truth if I remember right) Nyarlotep(who was lies, especially to oneself) or Nyx (fear of death), but her being an actual goddess is not out of the question by any means as this world is not just our world with Shadows and Personas, it's our world with shadows, personas, super smart animals, MagiTek [[RobotGirl Robot Girls]] and ghosts. That's not even including stuff from the first two games, which include mainline [=MegaTen=] demons like Pixies and Nekomatas as random encounters (which would make sense considering that NPC Tamaki/Tammy Uchida is also the protagonist of ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIf''), plus a fairy who runs the healing springs and is explicitely stated to be an exile from her actual world.

** The only word Protagonist says in a cutscene is "Persona", when he first gets his freak on. Otherwise, he might grunt or something. In-game, the only time he says anything is in battle, when he yells "Persona!", or calls the name of the Persona he's summoning. I guess Atlus decided they could save a few bucks by not bringing in a voice actor to rerecord Protagonist's lines.

*** I agree. But, not to be an elitist or anything - but Bosch's voice is very distinctive, and while him and Daisuke Namikawa (the Japanese VA) both have young sounding, nice voices, when Bosch does his Protagonist voice, it's pretty rough, probably to differentiate from from Adachi, who's smoother and more upbeat. While I haven't heard much of the Japanese audia, Namikawa's voice seems to be lower and smoother as well - and he also isn't very good at Engrish. Much as I love him.

* Your looking for a person who kills people by throwing them in TV's letting them be destroyed by the personification of their negative traits while you save them with the powers of various deityies and other mythological creatures, and your problem is that no one could have a motive?

** He "defeated" Mayumi and Saki, but he "killed" Morooka, as stated in the game logs. So either way, he had himself delusioned to believe that he killed all of them even if that was incorrect. His Shadow was a symbol of his delusions; he's really just a baby who never got any attention, but fills his void with video games and delusions himself into believing that it makes him a hero.
*** If you think about it...the Shadow Bosses each have a reversed Arcana-Theme, in Mitsuos case the Hermit. The Reverse-Hermit represents (just like you said) a socially isolated person who has failed to master himself or come to terms with his isolation, but it also has complete disregard and no respect for society and is inhumane, which is symbolic since Mitsuos-Shadow uses a synthetic shell (Mitsuo the Hero) covering a warped parody of a young child. It also has a voice that sounds synthetic and atonal.

* About the real culprit Did Adachi actually do it for the eviluz? There's this subtext that says otherwise. After pushing Saki into the TV, Adachi complaints about today's youth and mentions that, when he was a student, he wasn't allowed to do anything but "studying [his] ass off" and then says he was supposed to the "best of the best" but got send to halfway to the middle of nowhere after a minor screw up instead. Then during the final confrontation at Magatsu Mandala, the insane one rants on how the only ones capable of being successful in life are the ones "born with a magical ticket called 'talent'" and how the rest are a put it simple screwed, that being the reason of why a reality where nothing of this exist appeals him so much. All based on his own experience, of course. And then Yukiko and Naoto stick it to him, calling Adachi an immature, selfish brat that blames the whole damn world for his lousy spot in life, to which Shadow Adachi replies by snapping and yelling that stupid teenagers like them don't have any idea of the shit he's been through. So Adachi's motives, as far I'm concerned, boil down on being a whiny, pathetic [[TheResenter Resenter]] that can't get over the fact that life isn't fair and how Main/HardWorkHardlyWorks i.e a classic Main/FreudianExcuse.
** His real reason may fit in more with the quality that caused Izanami to pick him in the fist place, so is Adachi despair or emptiness? We already know that Protagonist was hope. Though in the case of emptiness ForTheEvulz kind of makes sense. Similarly to Mitsuo, he was only doing it to fill a void.

** People who do things for the Evlizu are often self loathing, whiney man children who justify their behavior with similar excuses.
** I kinda thought that, for him, he ''was'' supposed to be successful, as he was learning quite well and stuff, and was able to select a job he wanted (he's specifing that he joined police to be allowed to carry a gun), but then 'something' happened, and his life was crushed. He's calling it "small mistake", but, well, he also calling two murders "innocent fun", so...

** A few nights ago, you threw someone into a TV by accident. Now that same person was killed, with no means of tracing it back to you. You now realise that you are both a murderer, AND more importantly, can't be caught for it. He likely vomits from the thrill of it, the breaking of the every day normal he'd been a slave to.

*** I didn't notice until my second play-through, but Teddie's Shadow's eyes and its general shape (that is, a big roundish thing half-sunken into the ground) was extremely evocative of Ameno-sagiri's giant eyeball form. When you think about it, it's a nice touch.

*** It's a ''very'' small town. The local news papers would be dieing for anything, especially a quote with a famous politician.

*** Actually, the only birthdays that happen durring the time period that any characters are in the party are Yosuke's, Chie's, and Yukiko's. Funnily enough, Yukiko's is actually December 8th, which is, I think, the very day they find Adachi in the TV world so it's not really the best time for a birthday bash. As for Chie's(July 30th) and Yosuke's(June 22nd), they happen while they're still investigating everything with most of their attention. Rise's(June 1st) happens before she even comes to Inaba much like Naoto's(April 27th), and Kanji's occurs on January 19th, which isn't even a playable day.

** Mitsuo did appear on the TV to taunt them. That was enough for them to assume that he really was the killer because that could only happen if someone who had the power to use the TV World besides them was involved. They hadn't figured out several important details, and, importantly, Mitsuo really did kill one person and cliamed credit for the other murders. Sure, They did notice some irregularities, but it would be easy to assume the nagging doubt they felt was it was a case of reality not matching their idea of what bringing in the killer would feel like. The long stretch of time without any incidents after that would only cement their idea that it was all over. For all their intentions, none of the current squad know anything about actual detective work and only have their own experiences to work from as evidence. Bottom line, they just got complacent when an easy answer presented itself.

*** Actually Persona 3 mentions the Persona-Users from the last games. The Kirijo-Group has been split from the [[VideoGame/Persona1 Nanjo-group]] and I guess someone from the old Cast had ideas for a certain [[VideoGame/Persona2 MMORPG]]. Besides, didnt [[ShoutOut Trish have a own TV-Show?]]

** It is mentioned that Personas are the masks the character's wear to confront supernatural danger. In Persona 3 and 4's world, it may very well be possible to summon Personas in the "real word", but only when confronted by the supernatural. We just never see supernatural danger arise in normal settings/time. So Rise couln't use her Persona to scan during a kidnapping, but if, say a Shadow had taken Nanako, she might have been able to track it. Whether enemy Persona-users count as supernatural danger in and of themselves is another issue...

*** Now for Yosuke and other, despite being somewhat relucant, they known that they have problem. Turning shadow into persona in real life would be when you realize that you have problem, then working to overcome it (remember that each of party's S-Link is about them try to improve themselves?). Remember how Izanami mention that Adachi's persona got revert into shadow? That's what happen when you just accept your darkside without even try to overcome it.

* Is Izanami as powerful as Philemon and Nyarlothep? Since she was able to give Protagonist (the MC of P4), Namatame and Adachi the ability of Persona just like them. On the other hand she was easily defated unlike the other two (Philemon even has Elizabeth/Theo in P3 and Margarete in P4, which are way harder then Izanami no Okami...

*** Dojima suspected that Protagonist had some sort of involvement in the case, but didn't nessesarally think that he was the killer. He was worried that his nephew could either get hurt, or be in serious legal trouble if he somehow got implicated in the case.

*** Personas supplementing supernatural resistance is already mentioned above, but it is unlikely that is the case ALL the time. For instance, Shinjiro getting killed by two gunshots despite in-battle will likely survive similar attacks (the "shot" skills some shadows have), yet during Takaya's boss fight the shots do not do much damage, supporting thats its merely a simple way to convey what is happening, but should not be taken literally as well. Its explicitly observed in Persona 3 that Personas and their effects can only be invoked with the aid of an Evoker or by having sheer willpower to call them out.

*** I realize that the game never gave her the title "FTM Boy" before revealing her name, yes. What I meant was that they introduced a female character, who is (I hope) very clearly female, yet who is presented as a boy. Why is it illogical that someone's ''first'' reaction might be "She's transgender"? As far as I recall, there where no other explanations hinted at until her dungeon. I really cannot think of a better "this is what you're supposed to be thinking when you first meet her" option, other than that she actually is a boy. Maybe the Japanese VA did a better job of disguising her voice? Besides, I thought the question of whether Naoto ''truly'' wished to be a boy, or if she only wanted that because she felt limited by being female was something you were meant to wonder about? If so, how is it projecting if, ''initially'', you believed the former to be true? The game itself seems to be setting you up to possibly make that assumption. Meanwhile, being female must not have been as big a barrier as she thought, since a year later she's apparently off working as an openly female detective. Okay, wait, you know what? Look. Okay. I see it this way, you see it that way. I can deal with that. Can we just leave it there? I'm just so fatigued from all this Naoto's Gender! talk and it's doing bad things to me in the heart facsimile; I kinda wish I never bothered in the first place.

** I realise this issue is probably dropped by now, but this troper feels the need to add that one's reception and interpretation of Naoto obviously varies wildly according to the value system he has been instilled with (everyone has one): I personally believed Naoto was indeed a boy initially (it's not exactly a common female name) and after realising she was not I took for granted the explanation given, that she was concealing her identity out of a mistaken belief that being a female as well as too oung was an insurmountable obstruction to her chosen career. Through the course of the game and advancing her Social Link she comes to see that she was mistaken in trying to conceal her identity and that the "right" path, so to speak, would be to actually demonstrate she IS strong enough to be both a woman and a detective, as well as relearn "how to be a woman", so to speak again. Hence her initial discomfort at dressing and speaking femininely (since she's obviously been using the male disguise for a long time) and initially allowing herself to appear feminine only in front of the protagonist (having no experience in womanly behavior, she is rightly afraid of mockery or social faux passes unforgivable to a female which would be allowable for a male - especially egregious given that this is Japan). That was how I read the character, at least.Out of curiosity, how did you interpret other SweetPollyOliver characters, such as Charle from Infinite Stratos?

** I think what also does not help is that the sexism she faces isn't properly explored (as further mentioned in a later entry). We haven't come across a scene where police officers say things that are borderline harrassment stuff like Mitsuru's ex-fiance in Persona 3. Nor we have seen how the police dismiss Naoto's argument in favour of a male colleague who is clearly less competent than Naoto - say until Dojima bails her out and tears apart his colleagues - similar to how Sae experienced sexism in Persona 5. Nor a discussion of how Naoto's mom was slighted/disrespected etc. (Nor her returning in Persona 5, which I think was a missed opportunity big-time in further exploring sexism and police corruption in Japan, and showcasing Naoto vs Akechi.) If her Social Link was more this and less "run around Inaba for Grandad's adventure game", then I think most people would recognize Naoto's Social Link as unambiguously feminist in her narrative.

** Don't forget Chie [[GroinAttack kicking Yosuke in the nuts]] after he apologizes for cracking her CD. He did apologize and promise to replace it, but she seems to have no remorse over what she did. Although I should point out that Kashiwagi made so that anyone who entered couldn't back out. Some of the other points are valid however. The girls tend to get away with alot, which is a bit annoying.

*** [[ButtMonkey Yosuke]] [[{{Jerkass}} examples]] aside, if the HotspringsEpisode is any indication, I wonder if the girls sometimes realize they are at least somewhat in the wrong, but just keep their mouths shut and hope it never gets brought up again out of embarrasement. Or in the case of Chie, it may be {{Pride}}. She may simply be too stubborn to apologize especially if you know who is the recipient.

*** As a police officer, Adachi could also make this evidence 'dissapear' so he probably wasn't concerned about it being traced to him. What he failed to realize was the letter itself held the implication it was being sent by someone who could get access to the Dojima household.

* Okay, so Chie's Shadow appeared at Yukiko's Castle, so she didn't get a dungeon. But what about Saki? Apparently time isn't a factor in the creation of a dungeon, seeing that all the others who are throw in there receive their dungeon in the same day, and she did appeared on the Midnight Channel. But while all the others programs had the Shadows appearing, Saki's was her death. Also aplies to that first lady. Her's is just a room. And on top of it all, Adachi somehow manages to create his own dungeon and make it only accessable through there. So what, Adachi was so goddamn powerful he could bend the TV World to his will? You were there for a whole year and it never appeared to make things easier when you wanted. In fact, it always made things worst. I can understand why their Shadows are gone after you defeat them, and I can understand why people who face their Shadows in other people's dungeons don't get any, but this is bugging me.

** I think it's more for pronounce issues, and the word is quite uncommon. Saying "Personae" sounds a bit unnatural. Saying "Personas" is easier. And it's not like the protagonists know a lot about Personae anyway. The Scooby Inaba Gang hadn't even made the connection between "Persona" and "Personality" until Naoto explained. Perharps it's supposed to reflect the characthers?

*** In responce to suspecting Yukiko. They died by "unknown cause" they suspect poisoning. And what's this about Mitsuo's fingerprints were on Mayumi and Saki's clothes? I have not heard of any lines in the game indicating this.

* How come the fact that people are watching the midnight channel other then the persona users not making a bigger spotlight in the plot? I mean come on, it would definantly explain some of the more questionable moments of weirdness censor like the weapons and armor. But the only hints we get is cut scene crowd noise and the occasional NPC gossip, you'd think they'd all be approached by reporters from the local town or whatever about the mysterious new t.v. series they supposedly star in but it never happens.

** Nothing. Like. That. Ever. Happened. Before. Nothing. We have small, peaceful city here. It's your big cities which has murders and stuff, but we here, in Inaba, lives perfectly safe and quite lifes. Like, remember how people stopped even remember murders that happened just months ago, answering "oh, I even forgot about it" when you're doing first Judgement investigation, running around and asking people?

*** Regardless of the ages of the characters, I have a harder time believing that people ship Adachi with ANYBODY!!. Seriously the man's a nutcase that tried to rape two women, and threw them both into the tv with little if any regard for what might happen to them (well the first time he didn't know, but the second he definitely was aiming to kill). And then he continued his sick game using Namatame to kidnap others, all because he was bored, knowing they would die. And then you show up, foiling his plans (well technically you helped him by making Namatame believe he was saving people), but as you got closer to the truth, he makes a threat. Now when he was making that threat, only an idiot would believe he was referring to Doujima. No, he was definitely threatening Nanako. In the end he was just a pathetic loser. A disgusting shell of a man. And it would have been very difficult I believe for most to be as cordial as Yu was. But perhaps that was his own way of sticking it to Adachi. Killing him would have been a quick way to get revenge, but making the guy pay for his crimes through prison time has it's own catharsis. Adachi is suffering by being proven wrong, believing he could get away with what he did. So if Adachi was her age, or she was his, regardless, I wouldn't want Nanako shipped with a lunatic like him.

*** Actually, I think it is *because* of his Persona that he can do it. Think about it, Yosuke only fights after awakening his Persona. Who is his Persona? Jiraya, arguibly the most famous Ninja of myth, or second most, after Hattori Hanzou. I think Yosuke's sudden Ninja powers are a result of him channeling Jiraya passively.

*** Except that Teddie never has a uniform, only goes to the school for the pagent and one phone call to the school asking for details on the situation would shoot that story to bits. Nevermind that hiring someone to work for room and board like that would likely be a major violation of labor laws. The kind that could get Yosuke's dad fired or maybe even Junes shut down given that Japan is on a big kick against illegal workers these days.

*** Never ocurred to anyone? She is famous, i still can't believe she never met any paparazzi. Heck, it's inhumanly possible for her to hide it for so many years. I mean, she is a student right? She couldn't have faked her identity, that would be a crime. And even if the teachers and the principal knew she was a girl and agreed to keep her secret, there is no way she could hide from the students, there is physical education and she would have to switch uniforms surrounded by dozens of guys. And we know the PoliceAreUseless but Naoto is a GIRL. She has to use the GIRLS' restroom. Does waits the until she goes home or does she, conveniently, never met anyone while using the boy's/girl's restoom?

** I think both the tropers above are correct and would like to add my two cents; this is a pretty complicated topic, but I think that the main problem is not so much in the presence of these kind of prejudices and viewpoints in itself but how the game handles them. I love the whole game and it's cast sincerely, Yosuke included, but his behavior in the tent and treatment of Kanji in general, his chauvinistic tendencies towards women, and Naoto getting told things like "of course she was scared if she's a girl" and "you've got balls ''for a girl''" is stuff that people of any non-straight sexuality and women actually have to deal with in real life. The problem with what Yosuke does specifically is that it's, yes always played for humor, that these experiences that are far less funny and seriously difficult and unpleasant when you actually deal with them are portrayed them as humorous and comical, which is incredibly trivializing of them. With regards to Naoto, she doesn't have the problem of the sexism she deals with being played for laughs, but during the incidents in question, Yukiko, Chie and Yosuke's comments aren't portrayed as a 'they're teenagers who internalized these prejudices and it's unfortunate but inevitable that they'd have them' kind of thing, but rather as perfectly acceptable viewpoints for them to have and perfectly alright comments of them to make. And while the majority of Naoto's social link isn't too bad in my opinion, the protagonist is given an option to engage in some chauvinistic acts himself in his treatment of her ("I gotta help, you're a girl", specifically, and her romantic path practically forces you to do along its many other problems). So basically I agree a lot of the prejudices are realistic and it would make perfect sense for them to make, but the way they're portrayed and treated was the problem because they weren't treated as predjuices and the problematic viewpoints they are, and I think the game was rather insensitive in its portrayal during these particular parts. I don't think that it makes the game sexist or homophobic or that the writers and Atlus are terrible, horrible people, but still.

** Yukiko's saying that Naoto would be scared because she's a girl is ranked third on her list of justifications, and an afterthought after the most relevant fact- that no one, not even Kanji, who singlehandedly beat up a biker gang, could resist the kidnapper.
** Say what you want about the other "problematic" issues, such as moments of homophobia and girl-on-guy abuse being played up for laughs (this troper personally believes they're non-issues, but appreciates that people's opinions will vary). I don't want to make this too controversial of a topic here, but I'm putting my foot down when it comes to the so-called "sexist" comments. Thinking that someone might be scared because they're a girl is a standard, although not necessarily correct to make, assumption based on biological differences in how men and women react to situations. In general, although not by rule of thumb, girls are more emotionally timid. That's just a fact. Gender being listed as a reason why a particular reason felt scared in a dangerous situation, especially when it's not even the primarily focus when it comes to the possible reasons as the above troper pointed out, is, I'm sorry to say, particularly sensible. It's a hard fact to deal with, but it's a fact. It's when you begin making rash generalisations that you consider totally iron cast that it becomes an actual sexist problem (the difference between listing gender as a factor in someone's fear level, and saying "Well of course she's scared, she's a girl" or "all girls are scardy-pants so that's why she was sacred", for example). It's also, in my opinion, not sexist for men to act generally kind to females due to the fact that they're females. That's perfectly ordinarily behavior, so long as it does not become downright patronising. There is a difference between feeling like you have a duty as a man to protect your girlfriend, or any female figure who's important to you, and patronising a woman because of her gender. I'm sorry, but very few of the "sexist" moments in Persona 4 fall into actual sexism, not unless you purposefully twist the meaning of the word, or the meaning of what the game itself presents. Probably the only one I can think of that that could be seen as properly "problematic" is the part where they said "of course she's scared, she's a girl". But this was a throwaway observation which is fairly quickly ignored. At most you could complain that they should've worded the remarks differently, maybe instead of them saying she was sacred ''due to'' being a girl, they factor her being a girl into why she was scared. As I previously stated, these seems the same but it's a hugely important distinction between someone being genuinely and undeniably sexist, and someone making a, still possibly misguided guess based on gender average which may or may not be seen as sexist depending on your opinion.

** Considering that they also have Ms. "Sexual-Harassement-Lawsuit-waiting-to-happen" Kashiwagi, and the P.E. Teacher also does English there must be a shortage on teachers, the others are kind of weird, but don't seem to be bad at their jobs. And a couple comments after he died show that King Moron wasn't so bad, and had a few Pet the Dog moments but any semblance of that isn't shown and falls into InformedAttribute, and he apparently had a few harsh words with Mitsuo, so he isn't very liked in general. Honestly, I'm surprised any student pays attention, with a guy like that, I'd just pick a random book to read and put some earphones during his lectures.

* Okay, hear me out. Adachi is ''unambiguously'' a murderous hypocrite who chose to give up on conventional life because he hit a rough patch, but as I was watching the final confrontation between him and the Investigation Team, I couldn't help but feel like some of the things he was getting at weren't really ''wrong'', they were just going over everyone's heads. Adachi's driving force seems to be the idea that compliance and contentment within a society aren't worthwhile since everyone dies eventually, and he hates that some people get what they want more easily than others because they ''do'' comply, even though it won't amount to anything once they're dead. This obviously clashes with the kids' viewpoint about uncovering the truth behind situations, not necessarily to change them, but moreso to change ''[[CharacterDevelopment themselves]]'' so that they can coexist with it, and make the most of it. This is a major instance of idealism versus realism/cynicism in itself, but as Adachi devolves further into madness before the fight, I couldn't help but feel like the kids' arguments against him were... flimsy. Adachi basically wants to change the world because he (thinks he) has the power to do it, and while the team wants to stop him because they believe he shouldn't have the power to do that, in the end ''they'' pretty much do the same thing because they stop him not [[BreakThemByTalking breaking him by talking]], but by overpowering him by teaming up against him. In other words, the reason they beat Adachi was more or less for the exact reason why he hates human society; because they got what they wanted by joining together, regardless of how sound their logic actually was. Imagine if the whole plot had focused around just ''one'' of the kids trying to solve the mystery; would they have even made it this far? And heck, right before the fight starts, they don't even really ''try'' to disprove any of the things Adachi says; they just insist that it's BS and their way's better! ''And Adachi even {{Lampshades}} it!'' True, Adachi doesn't really have any room to speak for all of humanity either (and Izanami was really stupid for thinking he would), but really, neither do the kids. The only real reason the plot leans towards their viewpoint is because the plot focuses on them, ''not'' necessarily because they're right. And if the climactic battle ultimately comes down to just denying everything your opponent says until they crack and the conflict becomes physical, then the only real moral superiority the team has over Adachi is that he's a manipulative murderer & harasser, and they aren't. Everything else just kinda seems justified by "we're stronger than you".

** Well. Adachi's driving force seems to be, like, what's the point of complience and contentment if it doesn't give me what I want? I tried, he's saying, to be compacent, and what it brought me? a position of junior detective in the middle of nowhere, and girls don't like me (and are sluts anyways). Who the hell cares about humanity anyways? You? Naaaah, you don't; if you would, you wouldn't pursue the Truth, because nobody but you wants it. So, essentially, you're like me, you're not on moral high ground above me, so what are we even doing here? On what right you're judging me? Go home, children, and call adults to argue next time. And IT is answering: first of all, you suck. Second. We, actually, just didn't came to argue philosophy with you. We're not here to convince you that you're bad. You're not mystical "adult" in Plato's Academy who has rational discussion on phylosophy 101, you're spoiled brat who don't get things his way and whining. In the end, our moral authority is that you're manipulative murderer & harasser, and we are not, and you know it, so stop piss in our ear and call it raining. If you refuse it, it's up to power, and, if might makes right, we're still right over you. You literally has no actual frame that would prove you right beyond shitty words. You're saying that hard work isn't paying off? Tell it Rise or Yukiko, or, well, Yosuke. You're saying that nobody cares about truth and other people? People who actively do outnumber you right here, like, seven to one. You're saying that being good and nice isn't paying off? Tell it Yu. You're saying that might makes right? Well, then you lost, because we're more powerful. Your only answer on "what's your proof" is "YOU'RE CHILDREN AND DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT SHIT I'VE GONE THROUGH. Not convincing." Even this - "because they got what they wanted by joining together, regardless of how sound their logic actually was" - is the point. Their logic: "joining together and caring about people is better for you as well, because you got what you want this way". Adachi: "no, you don't". IT: "let's test this".

** It's not just implied, its more or less canon. In her New Years date event, Chie reveals she hasn't told her family about you yet- and while what you tell your parents won't always be the same stuff you tell your closest friend, this still shows they were keeping it a secret. And if you speak to someone you're dating while in a dungeon, they might say something that hints at their relationship (like acting embarassed) and the others present will assume they are physically ill rather than notice its because they're with you, meaning the rest of the party really just doesn't know yet.

** Probably because "uncle" in Japanese is "oji-san", which sounds almost the same as "ojii-san" meaning "granpa/old man". Same deal with many anime series where women don't like to be called "aunt"/"oba-san" by their nephews/nieces because it's too phonetically similar to "grandma"/"obaa-san".

* Namatame expresses his desire to "save" people he has seen on the Midnight channel. He has seen Yukiko, Kanji and Rise there and subsequently threw them into the TV World. While how he did it with Yukiko and Rise is understandable, just how the hell did he managed that with Kanji? In his backstory Kanji fought off an entire biker gang singlehandedly, and I'm supposed to believe that he couldn't punch out ONE depressed pencil-pusher?

** They're anime characters not everything you see is supposed to be 100% down to earth and realistic. They're anime antics. For a less cope-out explanation, I guess because people can be friends with people they're not totally fluffy-duffy with. Abuse and sexual harassment obviously isn't okay, but I nots exactly as severe nor frequant as you make it seem. You've got to take into account that the time elapses between events in game is far longer than a player's experience, literally weeks and months. Plus they're teenagers, and teenagers who are going through/have gone through extremely abnormal experiences together. They're hardly going to be like "bye, see you never again" over some flaws in each others personalities. Chie and Yukiko do get on Yosuke's case all the time for his borderline creepy obsession with cute girls(particularly flanderised in the sequals; there's one particularly strong example of this in the Persona4DancingAllNight story) and the girls are often called out by the games (including the spin-offs) for being overly harsh or bitchy at times. The games don't ignore their flaws at all.

** Gameplay and story seperation aside, maybe they are just afraid that it would make their group dynamic awkward if it came out?

** The discrepancy between his longing for the city and his lack of real attachement to it is the point. He's idealizing his old city home as a representation an escape from the problems and boredom of his current life. The point of his nonchalant dismissal of his old friends showed that it wasn't ever really about where he physically was, but a general dissatisfaction with his life that he wasn't mature enough to admit to himself. Just like his "love" for Saki, the city is just an idealized fantasy that he uses as an excuse to avoid changing himself. A big part of his development is him maturing enough to be honest with himself and take responsibility to take charge of his life instead of constantly lamenting a fantasy escape route. Once he does, you see that he's much less critical of small town life in general as he's learned to stop projecting his issues onto his environment. It's part of the game's "facing harsh truths" theme.

** Also, we need to clarify something about Naoto: She hadn't made the connection until after Yu (ie, the Player) brought it up. She'd had a nagging feeling that there was something "''odd''" about Adachi, but couldn't figure out what (basically an In-Universe example of FridgeLogic). It wasn't until the crew began taking a hard look at Adachi's behavior that she understood ''why'' the remark bothered her.

** Also, we need to clarify something about Nauto: She hadn't made the connection until after Yu (ie, the Player) brought it up. She'd had a nagging feeling that there was something "''odd''" about Adachi, but couldn't figure out what (basically an In-Universe example of FridgeLogic). It wasn't until the crew began taking a hard look at Adachi's behavior that she understood ''why'' the remark bothered her.

* How was the novel in question bad, okay, [[LightNovel/TheGardenOfSinners Touko]] expy is not something to be keen on, and the MsFanservice treatment Naoto is getting could be funny, but how are stuff like a male Anti-Shadow weapon bad?

* For that matter Naoto says that ''both'' of her parents were renowned detectives after her Shadow battle; granted they both died when Naoto was young and Naoto's mother would've had the support of her husband and father, but why did a prominent female detective in Naoto's family have such a non-existent effect on Naoto's gender issues in the present, either in acting as a role model for Naoto or serving as an example of how badly women face sexism in the workplace? (to say nothing of Naoto's non-reaction to meeting the influential and obviously respected Mitsuru during the events of Arena.) Unless I've missed something and Naoto actually HasTwoDaddies

[[/folder]]

* Why is everything Persona 4-related called "Persona 4: The Animation"? (At least on Wiki/TVTropes.)

*** Nobody in the game ever said that everyone who has frustrations with their career or social life is a murderer. They're saying that someone trying to defend not only murder, but deliberately setting up more murders for personal enjoyment is not justified by these worries. The IT is outright saying that Adachi's issues aren't some unique tragedy that makes him justified in toying with others to fill his own need for entertainment. Many people, including some of the IT have dealt with the same problems, but they didn't turn to the depravity that he did. Society has many, many issues that do need to be solved, but Adachi's actions aren't a rebellion towards the unfairness of it all or some unavoidable result that he isn't responsible for. They're an inexcusable power trip from a man who was supposed to protect people from these very things. Frustration with your career and obsession with a woman you only know from TV is not some immense tragedy that justifies what he has done. Especially when you deliberately avoid doing anything to better your situation out of a sense of entitlement and superiority despite many people trying to reach out to you before that point. I see a lot of misguided projections of personal experience onto the character and ignoring that he specifically has done great harm with no remorse and no reason beyond his own entertainment and the cast stripping his self-serving, critically flawed reasoning apart as some sort of personal attack. Hell, the whole point of the game's plot is that you have to confront the worst parts of yourself if you want to make real change. Adachi never did that. Instead, he gave into his worst impulses and disregard for others so he could feel justified in continuing to stay at his current level where he could still do the bare minimum despite all his claims that he hated it so much. The game has many flaws, but the main cast not accepting the ranting of a cornered serial killer as some valid position in a well-reasoned debate while in the middle of a fight to the death isn't one of them.

*** Nobody in the game ever said that everyone who has frustrations with their career or social life is a murder. They're saying that someone trying to defend not only murder, but deliberately setting up more murders for personal enjoyment is not justified by these worries. The IT is outright saying that Adachi's issues aren't some unique tragedy that makes him justified in toying with others to fill his own need for entertainment. Many people, including some of the IT have dealt with the same problems, but they didn't turn to the depravity that he did. Society has many, many issues that do need to be solved, but Adachi's actions aren't a rebellion towards the unfairness of it all or some unavoidable result that he isn't responsible for. They're an inexcusable power trip from a man who was supposed to protect people from these very things. Frustration with your career and obsession with a woman you only know from TV is not some immense tragedy that justifies what he has done. Especially when you deliberately avoid doing anything to better your situation out of a sense of entitlement and superiority despite many people trying to reach out to you before that point. I see a lot of misguided projections of personal experience onto the character and ignoring that he specifically has done great harm with no remorse and no reason beyond his own entertainment and the cast stripping his flawed reasoning for defending himself committing outright murder for sheer fun apart as some sort of personal attack. Hell, the whole point of the game's plot is that you have to confront the worst parts of yourself if you want to make real change. Adachi never did that. Instead, he gave into his worst impulses and disregard for others so he could feel justified in continuing to stay at his current level where he could still do the bare minimum despite all his claims that he hated it so much. The game has many flaws, but the main cast not accepting the ranting of a cornered serial killer aa some valid position in a well-reasoned debate while in the middle of a fight to the death with him isn't one of them.

** The same way everyone else survives the TV World before being rescued: the Shadows can't find them. Teddie outright says that the fog is so dense that the Shadows usually can't track anyone until the days it clears out and goes to the real world. The only exception to this are Persona users who stand out like a beacon to them. Shadow-Selves can find their owners just fine, but they don't want to harm them because their death would kill the Shadow, too. They just want to be accepted by their human selves. It's only after being denied enough that the Shadow-Self is enraged enough to kill their counterpart. Presumably, they only reach that point if the human ramps up the denial in response to having an audience see their deepest secrets like the Investigation Team. Otherwise, if they aren't found soon enough, likely the fog rolls out and normal Shadows swarm and devour whoever is left inside. At least, that's my headcanon as to why those tossed into the TV can last for weeks with their Shadow Selves, refuting everything they say and only get the big boss triggering official “You’re not me!!” moment when the Investigation Team comes.

** P5 gives a decent display of what happens. When a person's Shadow dies, the resulting loss completely shatters their minds permanently, leaving them vegetative husks. A condition known as a "mental shutdown". In some cases, killing them outright. Presumably, when the Shadow Self attacks their human, this effectively results in the Shadow breaking the rest of their minds, making the victim suffer a mental shutdown so violent that it is fatal to even the healthiest people. The body is then discarded from the TV World by other Shadows as the now-dead human no longer has any tasty thoughts or emotions to feed on, making the corpse useless garbage to Shadows. That would also explain why none of the bodies show any physical injuries that should cause death.

** Nobody in the game ever said that everyone who has frustrations with their career or social life is a murder. They're saying that someone trying to defend not only murder, but deliberately setting up more murders for personal enjoyment is not justified by these worries. The IT is outright saying that Adachi's issues aren't some unique tragedy that makes him justified in toying with others to fill his own need for entertainment. Many people, including some of the IT have dealt with the same problems and they didn't turn to the depravity that he did. Society has many, many problems, but Adachi's actions are still inexcusable and not some inescapable result of them. Especially since he had many people trying to reach out to him, only for him to reject them all out of his own superiority complex and lack of empathy. Frustration with your career and obsession with a woman you only know from TV is not some immense tragedy that justifies what he has done. Especially when you deliberately avoid doing anything to better your situation. I see a lot of misguided projection personal experience onto the character and ignoring that he specifically has done great harm with no remorse and no reason beyond his own entertainment and taking the game stripping his flawed reasoning apart as some sort of personal attack. The game has many flaws, but the main cast not accepting the ranting of a cornered serial killer as some sort of well-reasoned debate isn't one of them.