History Headscratchers / Persona4

28th Jan '17 3:45:07 AM Andrzej
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[[folder: Doesnt sound like a legit reason to phase out a character...]]

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[[folder: Doesnt [[folder:Doesn't sound like a legit reason to phase out a character...]]



*** Never played VideoGame/ChronoCross, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Also, later in the game, [[spoiler: Adachi]] explains that the reason the Shadows attack you is because you attempt to oppose them. (His exact words being "They go wild because you defy them.") Chie's attempt to rescue Yukiko from the castle is a similar act of opposition, which should provoke the Shadows to attack her.
*** You took that out of context. The shadows that [[spoiler: Adachi]] was referring to were each characters' personal shadow selves, not random shadows.
*** It's possible that Shadow Yukiko ''wanted'' her further in the castle so she would meet up with Shadow Chie and had the patrolling Shadows not attack while she wandered around.

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*** Never played VideoGame/ChronoCross, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Also, later in the game, [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] explains that the reason the Shadows attack you is because you attempt to oppose them. (His exact words being "They go wild because you defy them.") Chie's attempt to rescue Yukiko from the castle is a similar act of opposition, which should provoke the Shadows to attack her.
*** You took that out of context. The shadows that [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] was referring to were each characters' personal shadow selves, not random shadows.
shadows.
*** It's possible that Shadow Yukiko ''wanted'' her further in the castle so she would meet up with Shadow Chie and had the patrolling Shadows not attack while she wandered around.



*** The above is definitely not true. If they did, all of the victims thrown into the TV would be ''immediately'' killed, no rescue attempt possible by the investigation team. Like it was explained by another troper, Teddie explains that Shadows don't attack normal people unless the fog clears in the TV world, which is when they become violent. As for the bit about the Protagonist being attacked, he already had Izanagi; that's what allowed him to enter the TV in the beginning when Yosuke and Chie couldn't on their own.[[spoiler: As for why Souji already had Izanagi, the True Ending takes care of that.]]
*** The Shadows also appear to attack people who have the Persona ability primarily, as they are the ones that the Shadows view as threats. Particularly in the case of the Investigation Team, the shadows become agitated around them since they are seeking the truth, and the Shadows despise any source of truth and become agitated if they see them. This is especially the case when you see the Shadow selves of the kidnapped go berserk: when they go berserk upon being denied, they actually don't immediately kill the person they manifested from: they actually fight the Investigation Team before attempting to kill the person they emerged from.

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*** The above is definitely not true. If they did, all of the victims thrown into the TV would be ''immediately'' killed, no rescue attempt possible by the investigation team. Like it was explained by another troper, Teddie explains that Shadows don't attack normal people unless the fog clears in the TV world, which is when they become violent. As for the bit about the Protagonist being attacked, he already had Izanagi; that's what allowed him to enter the TV in the beginning when Yosuke and Chie couldn't on their own.[[spoiler: As [[spoiler:As for why Souji already had Izanagi, the True Ending takes care of that.]]
*** The Shadows also appear to attack people who have the Persona ability primarily, as they are the ones that the Shadows view as threats. Particularly in the case of the Investigation Team, the shadows become agitated around them since they are seeking the truth, and the Shadows despise any source of truth and become agitated if they see them. This is especially the case when you see the Shadow selves of the kidnapped go berserk: when they go berserk upon being denied, they actually don't immediately kill the person they manifested from: they actually fight the Investigation Team before attempting to kill the person they emerged from.



* Sometimes the nonintegration of Social Links bugs me. [[spoiler: I just got Dojima up to rank 9, and the next night, I hang out with Nanako. Despite the very night before Dojima made a speech about being a "real family" and giving her cake, Nanako gets frustrated about the whole parent-teacher thing, says he's not her "real dad" and runs off.]] It doesn't make very much sense.
** [[spoiler: There are ''a lot'' of hidden resentments in the Dojima house, it seems...]]

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* Sometimes the nonintegration of Social Links bugs me. [[spoiler: I [[spoiler:I just got Dojima up to rank 9, and the next night, I hang out with Nanako. Despite the very night before Dojima made a speech about being a "real family" and giving her cake, Nanako gets frustrated about the whole parent-teacher thing, says he's not her "real dad" and runs off.]] It doesn't make very much sense.
** [[spoiler: There [[spoiler:There are ''a lot'' of hidden resentments in the Dojima house, it seems...]]



** Not sure. But I got the impression that the [[spoiler: big calamity happened something like that evening, and Inaba was effectively wiped off the map. Very creepy stuff.]]
** My theory is that [[spoiler: Adachi became the avatar of that big creepy fog god guy and chasing him into the TV world where his power was strongest sped things up]]

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** Not sure. But I got the impression that the [[spoiler: big [[spoiler:big calamity happened something like that evening, and Inaba was effectively wiped off the map. Very creepy stuff.]]
** My theory is that [[spoiler: Adachi [[spoiler:Adachi became the avatar of that big creepy fog god guy and chasing him into the TV world where his power was strongest sped things up]]



* [[spoiler: The calamity in question is described by Adachi and Ameno-Sagiri as the Fog of Deceit covering the world, implying that after it happens it will cause everyone to see what they want to see instead of the truth. It's possible the fog already covered the world and the Protagonist just doesn't know it.]]
** [[spoiler: So the world did end, but the protagonist is living the lie that it didn't and never knows what's up?]] Can someone say FridgeHorror?

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* [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The calamity in question is described by Adachi and Ameno-Sagiri as the Fog of Deceit covering the world, implying that after it happens it will cause everyone to see what they want to see instead of the truth. It's possible the fog already covered the world and the Protagonist just doesn't know it.]]
** [[spoiler: So [[spoiler:So the world did end, but the protagonist is living the lie that it didn't and never knows what's up?]] Can someone say FridgeHorror?



*** In fact, during the S.Link incident in which Nanako runs out of the house and everyone gathers to look for her, Rise specifically laments that her power to find people doesn't work in the real world, which seems to indicate that they can only use their Personas in the TV world (this may be the scene the above troper was thinking of). Confirmed as of ''VideoGame/Persona4Arena'' where the party, especially Rise, is shocked that someone can use their persona in the real world aka [[spoiler: [[BigDamnHeroes Fuuka]].]]

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*** In fact, during the S.Link incident in which Nanako runs out of the house and everyone gathers to look for her, Rise specifically laments that her power to find people doesn't work in the real world, which seems to indicate that they can only use their Personas in the TV world (this may be the scene the above troper was thinking of). Confirmed as of ''VideoGame/Persona4Arena'' where the party, especially Rise, is shocked that someone can use their persona in the real world aka [[spoiler: [[BigDamnHeroes [[spoiler:[[BigDamnHeroes Fuuka]].]]



* Kanji has a crush on Naoto, right? The game plays it up a bunch. So why is it that [[spoiler: it completely disappears without a trace around the time Naoto's S.Link becomes available?]] I realize that Naoto [[spoiler: is a girl and thus a potential love interest for Protagonist, but Kanji's crush ''completely disappears'' as if it never existed.]] How come? You'd think that Kanji would at least say something about the situation [[spoiler: if Naoto becomes Protagonist's girlfriend.]]

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* Kanji has a crush on Naoto, right? The game plays it up a bunch. So why is it that [[spoiler: it [[spoiler:it completely disappears without a trace around the time Naoto's S.Link becomes available?]] I realize that Naoto [[spoiler: is [[spoiler:is a girl and thus a potential love interest for Protagonist, but Kanji's crush ''completely disappears'' as if it never existed.]] How come? You'd think that Kanji would at least say something about the situation [[spoiler: if [[spoiler:if Naoto becomes Protagonist's girlfriend.]] ]]



** There's also the possibility that the events before the S-Link opened up, namely [[spoiler: The Secret Lab's series of dialog between Kanji, Naoto, and Shadow Naoto, and the scenes during the cultural festival with Kanji literally begging Naoto to go up on stage so he can prove he's attracted to women]] are Kanji putting to rest that he never really was attracted to Naoto, and has come to terms with his sexual identity, which is more likely that he's [[spoiler: gay, or has feeling for Yukiko, depending on how you're reading into things.]]
** What version of Persona 4 were you guys playing? Kanji was still obsessed with Naoto through the end of the game. Kanji just has no ability to deal with girls - do YOU think a guy that awkward could make a pass at someone? Plus you only have Naoto in your party for about two months of game time that are completely overshadowed by the finale of the game - the subplot likely petered out because there were more important things going on. [[spoiler: The game is pretty clear that he's not gay, all of his sexual hangups stem from him having traditionally feminine interests and being shunned for it. Since girls gave him the hardest time over it, he ''really'' can't talk to girls. And he '''really''' can't talk to Naoto. It's obvious he's attracted to girls - he got a nosebleed seeing Chie and Yukiko in their swimsuits. He was absolutely gobsmacked at the idea of Naoto in a swimsuit and disappointed when she wasn't. But it's Kanji. He's not good at communicating with girls - something common to plenty of heterosexual teenage boys. And I say this as someone who had really hoped for a gay character in this game, but it's pretty obvious the plotline for Kanji was not a simple coming out story, but of someone having to grapple with society's expectations for gender roles. And society expects that a guy with feminine interests is gay.]]

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** There's also the possibility that the events before the S-Link opened up, namely [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The Secret Lab's series of dialog between Kanji, Naoto, and Shadow Naoto, and the scenes during the cultural festival with Kanji literally begging Naoto to go up on stage so he can prove he's attracted to women]] are Kanji putting to rest that he never really was attracted to Naoto, and has come to terms with his sexual identity, which is more likely that he's [[spoiler: gay, [[spoiler:gay, or has feeling for Yukiko, depending on how you're reading into things.]]
** What version of Persona 4 were you guys playing? Kanji was still obsessed with Naoto through the end of the game. Kanji just has no ability to deal with girls - do YOU think a guy that awkward could make a pass at someone? Plus you only have Naoto in your party for about two months of game time that are completely overshadowed by the finale of the game - the subplot likely petered out because there were more important things going on. [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The game is pretty clear that he's not gay, all of his sexual hangups stem from him having traditionally feminine interests and being shunned for it. Since girls gave him the hardest time over it, he ''really'' can't talk to girls. And he '''really''' can't talk to Naoto. It's obvious he's attracted to girls - he got a nosebleed seeing Chie and Yukiko in their swimsuits. He was absolutely gobsmacked at the idea of Naoto in a swimsuit and disappointed when she wasn't. But it's Kanji. He's not good at communicating with girls - something common to plenty of heterosexual teenage boys. And I say this as someone who had really hoped for a gay character in this game, but it's pretty obvious the plotline for Kanji was not a simple coming out story, but of someone having to grapple with society's expectations for gender roles. And society expects that a guy with feminine interests is gay.]]



*** That's just it. That's literally ''the'' last major hint the game gives. I've found out that there are optional party talks in dungeons if you go back after you've cleared a new dungeon before a deadline. [[spoiler: Kanji becomes really uncomfortable if Naoto mentions her romantic relationship with the main character in one of them]], but aside from those optional encounters, the game painfully drops that particular development. As everything stands, it feels like [[spoiler: the main character went behind Kanji's back and everything was accepted as is.]] I would've liked some more resolution.

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*** That's just it. That's literally ''the'' last major hint the game gives. I've found out that there are optional party talks in dungeons if you go back after you've cleared a new dungeon before a deadline. [[spoiler: Kanji [[spoiler:Kanji becomes really uncomfortable if Naoto mentions her romantic relationship with the main character in one of them]], but aside from those optional encounters, the game painfully drops that particular development. As everything stands, it feels like [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the main character went behind Kanji's back and everything was accepted as is.]] I would've liked some more resolution.



* On the topic of Personas, near the end [[spoiler: it's hinted that the Personas/Shadows, like the TV world, are shaped by human thoughts. This explains why the Personas all resemble, in name and appearance, figures from branches of myth and legend. What I'm confused about is if Izanami was really a goddess, just a glorified Shadow running along the same rules as a Persona, or if I wasn't paying attention]]]
** [[spoiler: Izanami states that she is really a goddess, hence why the fight appeared to be hopeless.]]
*** So having a massive ego automatically makes you a god? That's nice to know.

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* On the topic of Personas, near the end [[spoiler: it's [[spoiler:it's hinted that the Personas/Shadows, like the TV world, are shaped by human thoughts. This explains why the Personas all resemble, in name and appearance, figures from branches of myth and legend. What I'm confused about is if Izanami was really a goddess, just a glorified Shadow running along the same rules as a Persona, or if I wasn't paying attention]]]
** [[spoiler: Izanami [[spoiler:Izanami states that she is really a goddess, hence why the fight appeared to be hopeless.]]
*** So having a massive ego automatically makes you a god? That's nice to know.



*** I beg to differ. The fact that [[spoiler: Izanami is even ''possible'' to kill via some kind of attack indicates that she's not at the same level as the other Gods in the Persona series - beings like Erebus, Nyarlathotep, and Philemon cannot be destroyed unless the fundemental nature of mankind changes (or if sentient life were to go extinct, I suppose), and Nyx cannot be destroyed period. Izanami seemed more like a "collective" Shadow; the cast-off bits of ego of an entire society. Such a being would be incredibly powerful, but still capable of being destroyed like other Shadows.]]

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*** I beg to differ. The fact that [[spoiler: Izanami [[spoiler:Izanami is even ''possible'' to kill via some kind of attack indicates that she's not at the same level as the other Gods in the Persona series - beings like Erebus, Nyarlathotep, and Philemon cannot be destroyed unless the fundemental nature of mankind changes (or if sentient life were to go extinct, I suppose), and Nyx cannot be destroyed period. Izanami seemed more like a "collective" Shadow; the cast-off bits of ego of an entire society. Such a being would be incredibly powerful, but still capable of being destroyed like other Shadows.]]



*** Not really... in Revelations: Persona,you kill gods as they are in the main SMT and you kill a being that in effect is a god with reality warping that is just [[spoiler: the heroine's ]]concept of self which by that point in the story can't really be destroyed.

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*** Not really... in Revelations: Persona,you kill gods as they are in the main SMT and you kill a being that in effect is a god with reality warping that is just [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the heroine's ]]concept of self which by that point in the story can't really be destroyed.



* When Teddie joins the party, why he doesn't just fight in human form? It's stated in the prologue section that mascot-Teddie has practically no muscle, and the little training montage shtick he does after getting his Persona hardly seems like it would change that fact overnight. [[spoiler: Maybe being a Shadow has something to do with that part?]] He could just be more comfortable in it, but it seems like a HandWave.

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* When Teddie joins the party, why he doesn't just fight in human form? It's stated in the prologue section that mascot-Teddie has practically no muscle, and the little training montage shtick he does after getting his Persona hardly seems like it would change that fact overnight. [[spoiler: Maybe [[spoiler:Maybe being a Shadow has something to do with that part?]] He could just be more comfortable in it, but it seems like a HandWave.



** You can stop complaining now. Some of Teddie's alternate costumes in [[UpdatedRelease Persona 4 Golden]] allow him to fight in his human form [[spoiler: Including his [[HilarityEnsues crossdressing]] [[StupidSexyFlanders costume]].]]

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** You can stop complaining now. Some of Teddie's alternate costumes in [[UpdatedRelease Persona 4 Golden]] allow him to fight in his human form [[spoiler: Including [[spoiler:Including his [[HilarityEnsues crossdressing]] [[StupidSexyFlanders costume]].]]



* At the start of the game, Teddie says that only he can open a door back to the real world in the TV World, and that's why they can't use other [=TVs=] to enter and rescue who has been kidnapped because of the risk that Teddie wouldn't be able to find the party. But why do they still use the same TV to enter the TV World after Teddie goes to the real world if he can just go in first and check if it's safe and open a door to go back from there? And when Teddie leaves the party temporarily after [[spoiler: Nanako's "death"]], the party goes to the TV to search for [[spoiler: Adachi]] without Teddie to open the door and it doesn't appear in it's regular place, so how come they can go back to the real world after this?

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* At the start of the game, Teddie says that only he can open a door back to the real world in the TV World, and that's why they can't use other [=TVs=] to enter and rescue who has been kidnapped because of the risk that Teddie wouldn't be able to find the party. But why do they still use the same TV to enter the TV World after Teddie goes to the real world if he can just go in first and check if it's safe and open a door to go back from there? And when Teddie leaves the party temporarily after [[spoiler: Nanako's [[spoiler:Nanako's "death"]], the party goes to the TV to search for [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] without Teddie to open the door and it doesn't appear in it's regular place, so how come they can go back to the real world after this?



** My guess is he never closed the way out. When he leaves after [[spoiler: Nanako's "death"]] it feels like he just jumped into a random TV as he doesn't recognize the scenery he's in. It's also likely that Rise has the same ability.

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** My guess is he never closed the way out. When he leaves after [[spoiler: Nanako's [[spoiler:Nanako's "death"]] it feels like he just jumped into a random TV as he doesn't recognize the scenery he's in. It's also likely that Rise has the same ability.



** Actually, it seems that when Teddie summons an Exit, it ''stays there'' until he bothers to close it (as revealed in VideoGame/Persona4Arena). It's likely that he just got into the habit of leaving it open [[spoiler: particularly after he starts living in the Human world]].

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** Actually, it seems that when Teddie summons an Exit, it ''stays there'' until he bothers to close it (as revealed in VideoGame/Persona4Arena). It's likely that he just got into the habit of leaving it open [[spoiler: particularly [[spoiler:particularly after he starts living in the Human world]]. world]].



* I'm having a hard time trying to imaginate [[spoiler: how in blazes Mitsuo managed to overpower Morooka, let alone bludgeon him to death. The game never goes in detail on how he committed the murder, aside for Naoto telling us that Kinshiro died via blunt force trauma to the head and Mitsuo's game log that indicates the teacher of the year at least put up a fight before buying the farm.]]
** And while we are at it [[spoiler: Why did Shadow Mitsuo just disappeared after the battle? Didn't somebody say if a person doesn't accept his shadow, like Mitsuo did, said shadow would go berserk again?]]

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* I'm having a hard time trying to imaginate [[spoiler: how [[spoiler:how in blazes Mitsuo managed to overpower Morooka, let alone bludgeon him to death. The game never goes in detail on how he committed the murder, aside for Naoto telling us that Kinshiro died via blunt force trauma to the head and Mitsuo's game log that indicates the teacher of the year at least put up a fight before buying the farm.]]
]]
** And while we are at it [[spoiler: Why [[spoiler:Why did Shadow Mitsuo just disappeared after the battle? Didn't somebody say if a person doesn't accept his shadow, like Mitsuo did, said shadow would go berserk again?]] again?]]



** Well, Mitsuo's Shadow [[spoiler: was the embodiment of his feelings of neglect and desire for attention, right? He got attention, so his shadow disappeared.]]

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** Well, Mitsuo's Shadow [[spoiler: was [[spoiler:was the embodiment of his feelings of neglect and desire for attention, right? He got attention, so his shadow disappeared.]]



*** [[spoiler: Guys, it was his '''soul''' dieing]]
*** I think [[spoiler: the reason Mitsuo's shadow disappeared in the end was that, in a way, he's already accepted it. You'll notice that after the fight, he does not openly deny his shadow, and instead just goes on about how he's the killer. It's possible that, even though he doesn't say it, deep down he's accepted that he's a sad, pathetic human being who had to resort to murder just to be noticed. Even so, he obviously wouldn't have the strength of heart to command a Persona, so that's why his shadow just disappeared. Also, if you listen to the way he speaks once they're outside of the TV World, everything he says sounds half-hearted and insincere. This can really be heard in his insults; when he calls Teddie a "freak" and Yukiko "desperate", it sounds almost painful for him to say, because those insults are actually things he believes about himself.]] Of course, this could always just be me looking too deeply into things.
** To be fair, [[spoiler: the game logs were full of lies anyway. Mitsuo could have snuck up on Morooka and knocked him unconscious before he could fight back.]]
** [[spoiler: He "defeated" Mayumi and Saki, but he "killed" Morooka, as stated in the game logs. So either way, he had himself delusioned to believe that he killed all of them even if that was incorrect.]] His Shadow was a symbol of his delusions; he's really just a baby who never got any attention, but fills his void with video games and delusions himself into believing that it makes him a hero.

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*** [[spoiler: Guys, [[spoiler:Guys, it was his '''soul''' dieing]]
*** I think [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the reason Mitsuo's shadow disappeared in the end was that, in a way, he's already accepted it. You'll notice that after the fight, he does not openly deny his shadow, and instead just goes on about how he's the killer. It's possible that, even though he doesn't say it, deep down he's accepted that he's a sad, pathetic human being who had to resort to murder just to be noticed. Even so, he obviously wouldn't have the strength of heart to command a Persona, so that's why his shadow just disappeared. Also, if you listen to the way he speaks once they're outside of the TV World, everything he says sounds half-hearted and insincere. This can really be heard in his insults; when he calls Teddie a "freak" and Yukiko "desperate", it sounds almost painful for him to say, because those insults are actually things he believes about himself.]] Of course, this could always just be me looking too deeply into things.
** To be fair, [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the game logs were full of lies anyway. Mitsuo could have snuck up on Morooka and knocked him unconscious before he could fight back.]]
** [[spoiler: He [[spoiler:He "defeated" Mayumi and Saki, but he "killed" Morooka, as stated in the game logs. So either way, he had himself delusioned to believe that he killed all of them even if that was incorrect.]] His Shadow was a symbol of his delusions; he's really just a baby who never got any attention, but fills his void with video games and delusions himself into believing that it makes him a hero.



*** They were probably used to Personas just being SummonMagic; when [[spoiler: Izanami]] showed up with a mind of her own, talking and manipulating things, it was a bit of a shock.

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*** They were probably used to Personas just being SummonMagic; when [[spoiler: Izanami]] [[spoiler:Izanami]] showed up with a mind of her own, talking and manipulating things, it was a bit of a shock.



* About the real culprit [[spoiler: Did Adachi actually do it for the eviluz? There's this subtext that says otherwise. After pushing Saki into the TV, Adachi complaints about today's youth and mentions that, when he was a student, he wasn't allowed to do anything but "studying [his] ass off" and then says he was supposed to the "best of the best" but got send to halfway to the middle of nowhere after a minor screw up instead. Then during the final confrontation at Magatsu Mandala, the insane one rants on how the only ones capable of being successful in life are the ones "born with a magical ticket called 'talent'" and how the rest are a put it simple screwed, that being the reason of why a reality where nothing of this exist appeals him so much. All based on his own experience, of course. And then Yukiko and Naoto stick it to him, calling Adachi an inmature, selfish brat that blames the whole damn world for his lousy spot in life, to which Shadow Adachi replies by snaping and yelling that stupid teenagers like them dont' have any idea of the shit he's been through. So Adachi's motives, as far I'm concerned, boil down on being a whiny, pathetic [[TheResenter Resenter]] that can't get over the fact that life isn't fair and how Main/HardWorkHardlyWorks i.e a classic Main/FreudianExcuse.]]

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* About the real culprit [[spoiler: Did [[spoiler:Did Adachi actually do it for the eviluz? There's this subtext that says otherwise. After pushing Saki into the TV, Adachi complaints about today's youth and mentions that, when he was a student, he wasn't allowed to do anything but "studying [his] ass off" and then says he was supposed to the "best of the best" but got send to halfway to the middle of nowhere after a minor screw up instead. Then during the final confrontation at Magatsu Mandala, the insane one rants on how the only ones capable of being successful in life are the ones "born with a magical ticket called 'talent'" and how the rest are a put it simple screwed, that being the reason of why a reality where nothing of this exist appeals him so much. All based on his own experience, of course. And then Yukiko and Naoto stick it to him, calling Adachi an inmature, selfish brat that blames the whole damn world for his lousy spot in life, to which Shadow Adachi replies by snaping and yelling that stupid teenagers like them dont' have any idea of the shit he's been through. So Adachi's motives, as far I'm concerned, boil down on being a whiny, pathetic [[TheResenter Resenter]] that can't get over the fact that life isn't fair and how Main/HardWorkHardlyWorks i.e a classic Main/FreudianExcuse.]]



*** Really? [[spoiler: He didn't know that the TV world was going to end up KILLING her. He knocked her in there by accident at first. Adachi's a sociopath, definitely, but I doubt he went to Inaba planning to murder people. It could be that the initial shock and panic of finding her body caused him to be sick. He probably didn't even think of the whole game thing until Namatame calls the station to warn them about the TV world - Saki's death was just a spur of the moment thing too.]]

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*** Really? [[spoiler: He [[spoiler:He didn't know that the TV world was going to end up KILLING her. He knocked her in there by accident at first. Adachi's a sociopath, definitely, but I doubt he went to Inaba planning to murder people. It could be that the initial shock and panic of finding her body caused him to be sick. He probably didn't even think of the whole game thing until Namatame calls the station to warn them about the TV world - Saki's death was just a spur of the moment thing too.]]



** I think the answer depends on another question: [[spoiler: Did Adachi ''know'' that she'd end up dead? From the later cutscene, it looked like he put her in there simply to 'punish' her for rejecting him and didn't know what would happen until the body showed up. If that's true, the puking's probably real.]]

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** I think the answer depends on another question: [[spoiler: Did [[spoiler:Did Adachi ''know'' that she'd end up dead? From the later cutscene, it looked like he put her in there simply to 'punish' her for rejecting him and didn't know what would happen until the body showed up. If that's true, the puking's probably real.]]



** [[spoiler: I think there are many factors at work. Consider that as a Cop, Adachi probably understands very very well how hard it is to get away completely with murder. I mean so well that no one even suspects you. There is no such thing as the perfect murder, or at least that's likely what he thought. He'd just killed someone, without anyway whatsoever to trace it back to him. Also, he admitted that he'd never tried to enter the T.V fully before. In fact, up until he pushed Yamano, he wasn't even sure if it was possible. This means that if he hadn't done that, his curiosity might have eventually gotten the best of him, afterall, when you have that kind of power, how can you not go all the way with it? So it may be a combination of "better her than me", along with excitement for doing what is usually damn near impossible, and the final possibility that the he just has a weak stomach for that kind of thing.]]
** [[spoiler: I don't think Adachi was exactly faking the vomiting at the crime scene. You can't fake "vomiting" that easily, and as a trained police detective, Adachi wouldn't really have a reason to act up having such a strong reaction. From what was seen, Adachi had no idea that Yamano would die inside the TV, nor was he aware that he could push people inside the TV when it happened: he did it in the heat of the moment, and likely expected Yamano to be trapped there for life. It seems he never expected her to reappear somewhere in Inaba. So when Yamano was found dead, the police took action: and remember, Adachi was a member of Inaba's police force at the time. Upon seeing the crime scene, Adachi probably vomited because the realization that he not only killed her, but also that the crime would be investigated by his fellow officers on the force (including Dojima), caused him to freak out. He was likely shocked and scared out of his mind at the time because of the crime turning out the way it did, as well as the fact that his colleagues, including his boss (Dojima), would investigate the crime and could possibly catch onto his action.]]

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** [[spoiler: I [[spoiler:I think there are many factors at work. Consider that as a Cop, Adachi probably understands very very well how hard it is to get away completely with murder. I mean so well that no one even suspects you. There is no such thing as the perfect murder, or at least that's likely what he thought. He'd just killed someone, without anyway whatsoever to trace it back to him. Also, he admitted that he'd never tried to enter the T.V fully before. In fact, up until he pushed Yamano, he wasn't even sure if it was possible. This means that if he hadn't done that, his curiosity might have eventually gotten the best of him, afterall, when you have that kind of power, how can you not go all the way with it? So it may be a combination of "better her than me", along with excitement for doing what is usually damn near impossible, and the final possibility that the he just has a weak stomach for that kind of thing.]]
** [[spoiler: I [[spoiler:I don't think Adachi was exactly faking the vomiting at the crime scene. You can't fake "vomiting" that easily, and as a trained police detective, Adachi wouldn't really have a reason to act up having such a strong reaction. From what was seen, Adachi had no idea that Yamano would die inside the TV, nor was he aware that he could push people inside the TV when it happened: he did it in the heat of the moment, and likely expected Yamano to be trapped there for life. It seems he never expected her to reappear somewhere in Inaba. So when Yamano was found dead, the police took action: and remember, Adachi was a member of Inaba's police force at the time. Upon seeing the crime scene, Adachi probably vomited because the realization that he not only killed her, but also that the crime would be investigated by his fellow officers on the force (including Dojima), caused him to freak out. He was likely shocked and scared out of his mind at the time because of the crime turning out the way it did, as well as the fact that his colleagues, including his boss (Dojima), would investigate the crime and could possibly catch onto his action.]]



** [[spoiler: Funny thing about Mitsuo: his concept artwork seen [[http://dokuganryu.com/scans/megaten/p4/126.jpg here]] bears more than a passing resemblance to his shadow self (the floating baby) and somehow managed to be ''less'' creepy than his final fish-eyed design.]]

to:

** [[spoiler: Funny [[spoiler:Funny thing about Mitsuo: his concept artwork seen [[http://dokuganryu.com/scans/megaten/p4/126.jpg here]] bears more than a passing resemblance to his shadow self (the floating baby) and somehow managed to be ''less'' creepy than his final fish-eyed design.]]



** Pretty much all the party-member girls' social links are like that; they spend most of their ranks struggling with their decision to change their lives, but end up sticking with their current status quo because it would affect the plot if they didn't. Am I the only one who was really disappointed in Yukiko's SLink story, where [[spoiler: she makes a concerted effort to become self-reliant and find a career for herself because she hates the idea of managing the inn her whole life, but then decides to stay and run the inn anyway?]] I don't know whether to call it StatusQuoIsGod or some twisted variant on [[StayInTheKitchen Stay In The Cage]].

to:

** Pretty much all the party-member girls' social links are like that; they spend most of their ranks struggling with their decision to change their lives, but end up sticking with their current status quo because it would affect the plot if they didn't. Am I the only one who was really disappointed in Yukiko's SLink story, where [[spoiler: she [[spoiler:she makes a concerted effort to become self-reliant and find a career for herself because she hates the idea of managing the inn her whole life, but then decides to stay and run the inn anyway?]] I don't know whether to call it StatusQuoIsGod or some twisted variant on [[StayInTheKitchen Stay In The Cage]]. Cage]].



* On November 5th, [[spoiler: after you see Nanako on the midnight channel]], Protagonist is distressed because Dojima took away his cellphone, and therefore he can't call anyone to get help. Which makes sense, except for the fact that there's ''a phone sitting right on the table''. Dojima even uses it a couple minutes later.

to:

* On November 5th, [[spoiler: after [[spoiler:after you see Nanako on the midnight channel]], Protagonist is distressed because Dojima took away his cellphone, and therefore he can't call anyone to get help. Which makes sense, except for the fact that there's ''a phone sitting right on the table''. Dojima even uses it a couple minutes later.



** Even worse than that is [[spoiler: Dojima dragging him into the station because he couldn't buy Protagonist's story about going into the TV when there's the TV ''right there'' in the living room he could have shoved his hand into as proof. And then another one at the station.]]

to:

** Even worse than that is [[spoiler: Dojima [[spoiler:Dojima dragging him into the station because he couldn't buy Protagonist's story about going into the TV when there's the TV ''right there'' in the living room he could have shoved his hand into as proof. And then another one at the station.]]



*** Bit of FridgeBrilliance there: If the Protagonist proved what he said as truth to Dojima by showing him [[spoiler: while Adachi was there watching, could he later have accused Adachi when he said "Namatame pushed 'em in", since Adachi would have a reason for knowing and believing in the murder method?]]

to:

*** Bit of FridgeBrilliance there: If the Protagonist proved what he said as truth to Dojima by showing him [[spoiler: while [[spoiler:while Adachi was there watching, could he later have accused Adachi when he said "Namatame pushed 'em in", since Adachi would have a reason for knowing and believing in the murder method?]]



*** All the Greek deities and such appear as demons in every other [=MegaTen=] game, so if it's going by [=MegaTen=] standards, they're nowhere near as powerful as others in the pantheon. And they're all demons. It also would appear that [[spoiler: Izanami]] really is just using Inaba as an excuse to kill ''everyone'', so while it would really suck to be a guy in, say, San Antonio or Paris when [[spoiler: Izanami blows up the planet because of a bunch of people in a rural town in Japan]], is there really a requirement that gods play fair? [[spoiler: Regarding the landscape, I didn't see much uniquely Japanese in there - it was mountains, a lake, and woods. You really can't tell the difference unless you strain yourself. Besides, the perspective would have been from a bunch of Japanese teens, so they're going to have a different frame of reference anyway, so if there was somehow a uniquely Japanese perspective, there's a plausible reason besides assuming everyone in the world wants to be Japanese at heart.]]
*** Yes they do.
*** To be fair, this isn't a Japanese specific trait. All forms of media will inevitably hold some sort of bias towards the country of their origin. Like how Hollywood movies will almost always show how AmericaWonWorldWarII or how AmericaSavesTheDay.

to:

*** All the Greek deities and such appear as demons in every other [=MegaTen=] game, so if it's going by [=MegaTen=] standards, they're nowhere near as powerful as others in the pantheon. And they're all demons. It also would appear that [[spoiler: Izanami]] [[spoiler:Izanami]] really is just using Inaba as an excuse to kill ''everyone'', so while it would really suck to be a guy in, say, San Antonio or Paris when [[spoiler: Izanami [[spoiler:Izanami blows up the planet because of a bunch of people in a rural town in Japan]], is there really a requirement that gods play fair? [[spoiler: Regarding [[spoiler:Regarding the landscape, I didn't see much uniquely Japanese in there - it was mountains, a lake, and woods. You really can't tell the difference unless you strain yourself. Besides, the perspective would have been from a bunch of Japanese teens, so they're going to have a different frame of reference anyway, so if there was somehow a uniquely Japanese perspective, there's a plausible reason besides assuming everyone in the world wants to be Japanese at heart.]]
*** Yes they do.
do.
*** To be fair, this isn't a Japanese specific trait. All forms of media will inevitably hold some sort of bias towards the country of their origin. Like how Hollywood movies will almost always show how AmericaWonWorldWarII or how AmericaSavesTheDay.



*** OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR,[[spoiler: it could just be what's in everyone's hearts, ''in that exact place'' (remember that you can only enter certain areas in the TV world thorough certain [=TVs=].) the TV world is an EmpathicEnvironment, and since Inaba is a ''rural Japanese town'' it stands to reason that's what the people there think is perfect.]]

to:

*** OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR,[[spoiler: it OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, [[spoiler:it could just be what's in everyone's hearts, ''in that exact place'' (remember that you can only enter certain areas in the TV world thorough certain [=TVs=].) the TV world is an EmpathicEnvironment, and since Inaba is a ''rural Japanese town'' it stands to reason that's what the people there think is perfect.]]



** The [[spoiler: TV Fog caused a lot of strange health problems, headaches and nausea, for the group without the glasses. It's not until the end of the game and the Real-Fog becomes "poisonous" does anyone have a reason to draw the two lines.]]

to:

** The [[spoiler: TV [[spoiler:TV Fog caused a lot of strange health problems, headaches and nausea, for the group without the glasses. It's not until the end of the game and the Real-Fog becomes "poisonous" does anyone have a reason to draw the two lines.]]



** I assumed that Kunino-Sagiri was just Namatame's Shadow, but because of the power he recieved from Izanami it was strong enough to take him over completely rather than manifesting outside him (his mental state at the time probably didn't help). Presumably the same thing would have happened with Protagonist's Shadow; we just never got to see it because he was aware and accepting of his true self, so he just jumped straight to Persona. [[spoiler: Probably the same for Adachi, although his eyes still went gold... maybe his 'true self' was so twisted that his Persona was more Shadow-like than others?]]

to:

** I assumed that Kunino-Sagiri was just Namatame's Shadow, but because of the power he recieved from Izanami it was strong enough to take him over completely rather than manifesting outside him (his mental state at the time probably didn't help). Presumably the same thing would have happened with Protagonist's Shadow; we just never got to see it because he was aware and accepting of his true self, so he just jumped straight to Persona. [[spoiler: Probably [[spoiler:Probably the same for Adachi, although his eyes still went gold... maybe his 'true self' was so twisted that his Persona was more Shadow-like than others?]] others?]]



* What's the deal with [[spoiler: how Adachi threatens to hurt someone close to Protagonist, even though he has only been letting Namatame do all the dirty work? The threat is only carried out because Nanako appeared on the midnight channel, which was because her quotation was mentioned on the news, and it's highly unlikely Adachi had anything to do with that happening. Was it just a coincidence, and he just decided to go with it and make Protagonist think it was a deliberate act against him? ]] That explanation makes sense, but if it is what happened, why the hell didn't he mention it during the exposition dump where he explains in detail everything ELSE he did?
*** It's a ''very'' small town. [[spoiler: The local news papers would be dieing for anything, especially a quote with a famous politician.]]
** [[spoiler: Adachi likes the 'game' as it's been proceeding so far, even though he hasn't had to intervene beyond his initial actions of throwing Saki and Mayumi Yamano in, and telling Namatame to 'save people himself'. He knows that the kids have been saving people each time Namatame puts someone in, but it must have been getting a little bit stale. Letting someone else die would have spiced things up a little bit more. So it's just a coincidence - he could see the Midnight Channel, just like the team, and he knows Namatame will kidnap Nanako. He just decided to tilt the odds in his favour so he could have more fun.]]

to:

* What's the deal with [[spoiler: how [[spoiler:how Adachi threatens to hurt someone close to Protagonist, even though he has only been letting Namatame do all the dirty work? The threat is only carried out because Nanako appeared on the midnight channel, which was because her quotation was mentioned on the news, and it's highly unlikely Adachi had anything to do with that happening. Was it just a coincidence, and he just decided to go with it and make Protagonist think it was a deliberate act against him? ]] That explanation makes sense, but if it is what happened, why the hell didn't he mention it during the exposition dump where he explains in detail everything ELSE he did?
*** It's a ''very'' small town. [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The local news papers would be dieing for anything, especially a quote with a famous politician.]]
** [[spoiler: Adachi [[spoiler:Adachi likes the 'game' as it's been proceeding so far, even though he hasn't had to intervene beyond his initial actions of throwing Saki and Mayumi Yamano in, and telling Namatame to 'save people himself'. He knows that the kids have been saving people each time Namatame puts someone in, but it must have been getting a little bit stale. Letting someone else die would have spiced things up a little bit more. So it's just a coincidence - he could see the Midnight Channel, just like the team, and he knows Namatame will kidnap Nanako. He just decided to tilt the odds in his favour so he could have more fun.]]



* So the Killer has been caught and [[spoiler: he is going to jail for a very long time!...only there's no evidence to convict him aside from a secondhand confession. All the murders were untraceable (Naoto says as much when discussing Misato's attack), and performed with ''magic''. No criminal system would convict unless the Killer confessed again in front of the police, which he has really no reason to do. Hell, he would have a hard time getting them to believe him unless he revealed the TV World, which opens up a whole other [[BrokenMasquerade can of worms]], and even then there'd have to be proof that he ''did'' throw someone into the television, and that doing that ended up in a murder.]] In short: How the hell do they get a conviction? It's the perfect crime, even after he's caught.

to:

* So the Killer has been caught and [[spoiler: he [[spoiler:he is going to jail for a very long time!...only there's no evidence to convict him aside from a secondhand confession. All the murders were untraceable (Naoto says as much when discussing Misato's attack), and performed with ''magic''. No criminal system would convict unless the Killer confessed again in front of the police, which he has really no reason to do. Hell, he would have a hard time getting them to believe him unless he revealed the TV World, which opens up a whole other [[BrokenMasquerade can of worms]], and even then there'd have to be proof that he ''did'' throw someone into the television, and that doing that ended up in a murder.]] In short: How the hell do they get a conviction? It's the perfect crime, even after he's caught.



** Naoto ''was'' following them; remember how [[spoiler: she]] knew where to find them at Junes? But [[spoiler she]] did so from afar because, in a town as small as Inaba, someone would have noticed if [[spoiler: she]] had been too obvious about it. So she likely never followed too close whenever they went into Junes, because they could easily spot her there (remember, they had already met Naoto before) and she didn't want to risk spooking them.

to:

** Naoto ''was'' following them; remember how [[spoiler: she]] [[spoiler:she]] knew where to find them at Junes? But [[spoiler she]] did so from afar because, in a town as small as Inaba, someone would have noticed if [[spoiler: she]] [[spoiler:she]] had been too obvious about it. So she likely never followed too close whenever they went into Junes, because they could easily spot her there (remember, they had already met Naoto before) and she didn't want to risk spooking them.



---> [Say Nothing]
---> > What the [=*** =] do you think you are going to make with that?!
***
---> [You wanted to say that, but your Knowledge wasn't high enough.]
***
---> [You wanted to say that, but your courage wasn't high enough.]

to:

---> [Say --->[Say Nothing]
---> > --->> What the [=*** =] do you think you are going to make with that?!
***
---> [You
***
--->[You
wanted to say that, but your Knowledge wasn't high enough.]
***
---> [You
***
--->[You
wanted to say that, but your courage wasn't high enough.]



** Check the WMG page. It may have something with Teddie's origins. [[spoiler: mainly him being an amnesiac Lucifer makes the most sense oddly]]

to:

** Check the WMG page. It may have something with Teddie's origins. [[spoiler: mainly [[spoiler:mainly him being an amnesiac Lucifer makes the most sense oddly]]



* Why is it an automatic game over if the Protagonist is killed in battle? It made sense in Persona 3 because there [[spoiler: it literally would start the end of the world]] but in Persona 4 it should be possible for the others to revive you with a Revival Bead with no ill effects.

to:

* Why is it an automatic game over if the Protagonist is killed in battle? It made sense in Persona 3 because there [[spoiler: it [[spoiler:it literally would start the end of the world]] but in Persona 4 it should be possible for the others to revive you with a Revival Bead with no ill effects.



* Why does it take so long for the team to realize that [[spoiler: Mitsuo wasn't involved in the earlier murders. His own text during the dungeon crawl and his actions in general directly contradict points about the case that the team knows are true.]]

to:

* Why does it take so long for the team to realize that [[spoiler: Mitsuo [[spoiler:Mitsuo wasn't involved in the earlier murders. His own text during the dungeon crawl and his actions in general directly contradict points about the case that the team knows are true.]]



* Why does everyone refer to [[spoiler: the gas station attendant]] as a "he" when she's clearly female?

to:

* Why does everyone refer to [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the gas station attendant]] as a "he" when she's clearly female?



*** [[spoiler: You can in the true ending. And also hear her distinctly female voice.]]

to:

*** [[spoiler: You [[spoiler:You can in the true ending. And also hear her distinctly female voice.]]



*** In both versions [[spoiler: the gas station attendant]] has a male voice actor until they reveal themselves to be [[spoiler: Izanami]]. Even then, they still have a rather gender-neutral voice and appearance, [[spoiler: basically looking like the Protagonist's female clone]].

to:

*** In both versions [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the gas station attendant]] has a male voice actor until they reveal themselves to be [[spoiler: Izanami]]. [[spoiler:Izanami]]. Even then, they still have a rather gender-neutral voice and appearance, [[spoiler: basically [[spoiler:basically looking like the Protagonist's female clone]].



* Okay, we're trying to convince [[spoiler: Dojima that there's a world in the TV, and you can go into it.]] There's a TV over there in the corner. You're not in any way restricted to the chair. WALK OVER AND STICK YOUR HAND IN IT. Beyond that, the Midnight Channel comes on later that night! Knock on the door, call over a [[spoiler: police officer]] and have them sit and watch TV for a bit! DO SOMETHING.

to:

* Okay, we're trying to convince [[spoiler: Dojima [[spoiler:Dojima that there's a world in the TV, and you can go into it.]] There's a TV over there in the corner. You're not in any way restricted to the chair. WALK OVER AND STICK YOUR HAND IN IT. Beyond that, the Midnight Channel comes on later that night! Knock on the door, call over a [[spoiler: police [[spoiler:police officer]] and have them sit and watch TV for a bit! DO SOMETHING.



*** I don't recall it ever being said that only people who have some interest in the Midnight Channel are able to see it and regardless there's nothing stopping the protagonist from putting his hand in the television. The best explanation is that it was just a goof on the part of the writers when they were trying to figure out how to get [[spoiler: Nanako kidnapped]].
*** They said it in during the confrontation with [[spoiler: Izanami]] that they saw Midnight Channel because ''they want to see it'' and what they saw were according to their role [[spoiler: (Nametame being ''savior'']] and saw clear image of the victim while the team only has clear image after they were kidnapped because they are ''rescuer''). Thus, it is most likely that someone already has doubt about it (don't want to see anything) will see nothing. Of cause, I have no defend on "stick his hand in TV" part.

to:

*** I don't recall it ever being said that only people who have some interest in the Midnight Channel are able to see it and regardless there's nothing stopping the protagonist from putting his hand in the television. The best explanation is that it was just a goof on the part of the writers when they were trying to figure out how to get [[spoiler: Nanako [[spoiler:Nanako kidnapped]].
*** They said it in during the confrontation with [[spoiler: Izanami]] [[spoiler:Izanami]] that they saw Midnight Channel because ''they want to see it'' and what they saw were according to their role [[spoiler: (Nametame [[spoiler:(Nametame being ''savior'']] and saw clear image of the victim while the team only has clear image after they were kidnapped because they are ''rescuer''). Thus, it is most likely that someone already has doubt about it (don't want to see anything) will see nothing. Of cause, I have no defend on "stick his hand in TV" part.



Persona 4 Arena confirms that Personas can be used in the real world just like in previous games, it just requires a great deal of concentration (or an evoker), which [[spoiler: Fuuka demonstrates]]

to:

Persona 4 Arena confirms that Personas can be used in the real world just like in previous games, it just requires a great deal of concentration (or an evoker), which [[spoiler: Fuuka [[spoiler:Fuuka demonstrates]]



** Persona 3 does show Personas being used (or active) outside of the Dark Hour, when [[spoiler: Chidori]] is attacked by her own Persona. As for why it didn't work for Rise, she may not have actually been trying to summon her Persona, just talking about it. Or she may not have been in the right frame of mind to do so, as you pointed out. They ARE physical/magical manifestations of the user's inner self, after all.

to:

** Persona 3 does show Personas being used (or active) outside of the Dark Hour, when [[spoiler: Chidori]] [[spoiler:Chidori]] is attacked by her own Persona. As for why it didn't work for Rise, she may not have actually been trying to summon her Persona, just talking about it. Or she may not have been in the right frame of mind to do so, as you pointed out. They ARE physical/magical manifestations of the user's inner self, after all.



* Is [[spoiler: Izanami]] as powerful as Philemon and Nyarlothep? Since she was able to give Protagonist (the MC of P4), [[spoiler: Namatame]] and [[spoiler: Adachi]] the ability of Persona just like them. On the other hand she was easily defated unlike the other two (Philemon even has Elizabeth/Theo in P3 and Margarete in P4, which are way harder then [[spoiler: Izanami no Okami]]...
** Don't think so. As many has debated (and agreed) in the past, she's practically in rock bottom in terms of sheer power compared to other gods(-like being). Phil and Nyarly represent both half of the consciousness. Nyx (and by extension, Erebus and Nyx Avatar) represents Death. As stated before, you can't fully kill 'consciousness' and 'Death'. [[spoiler: Izanami]] is...just a dead goddess that doesn't represent 'anything' of humanity. Her 'contribution' to the universe is just basically making the TV World, and going to the real myth (which ''Shin Megami Tensei'' takes much attention upon), ruler of the Underworld.
*** None of which have anything to do with power. What a god represents is not as important as its actual role. Considering that [[spoiler: Izanami]] is both a creation deity and a death deity, there is plenty of room for her to be interpreted as a significant threat. How does one quantify "power" in this context anyway? How, on such a scale, does a creation god turned death god who actively kills 1000 people daily be "rock bottom" on such a scale?

to:

* Is [[spoiler: Izanami]] [[spoiler:Izanami]] as powerful as Philemon and Nyarlothep? Since she was able to give Protagonist (the MC of P4), [[spoiler: Namatame]] [[spoiler:Namatame]] and [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] the ability of Persona just like them. On the other hand she was easily defated unlike the other two (Philemon even has Elizabeth/Theo in P3 and Margarete in P4, which are way harder then [[spoiler: Izanami [[spoiler:Izanami no Okami]]...
** Don't think so. As many has debated (and agreed) in the past, she's practically in rock bottom in terms of sheer power compared to other gods(-like being). Phil and Nyarly represent both half of the consciousness. Nyx (and by extension, Erebus and Nyx Avatar) represents Death. As stated before, you can't fully kill 'consciousness' and 'Death'. [[spoiler: Izanami]] [[spoiler:Izanami]] is...just a dead goddess that doesn't represent 'anything' of humanity. Her 'contribution' to the universe is just basically making the TV World, and going to the real myth (which ''Shin Megami Tensei'' takes much attention upon), ruler of the Underworld.
*** None of which have anything to do with power. What a god represents is not as important as its actual role. Considering that [[spoiler: Izanami]] [[spoiler:Izanami]] is both a creation deity and a death deity, there is plenty of room for her to be interpreted as a significant threat. How does one quantify "power" in this context anyway? How, on such a scale, does a creation god turned death god who actively kills 1000 people daily be "rock bottom" on such a scale?



* Why is it that you can never bring up the fact that [[spoiler: Mitsuou's fingerprints were found on the clothing of the victims]] when you're trying to figure out the identity of the killer at the end of the game? Shouldn't this be a major point that a supposedly competent detective like Naoto should jump on immediately? At the very least it's suggesting that [[spoiler: a police probably planted evidence]].
** Because [[spoiler: it was only found on King Moron's clothing and not on any of the other victims, which is confirmed when the police mention that they can't tie Mitsuou to the first two victims.]]

to:

* Why is it that you can never bring up the fact that [[spoiler: Mitsuou's [[spoiler:Mitsuou's fingerprints were found on the clothing of the victims]] when you're trying to figure out the identity of the killer at the end of the game? Shouldn't this be a major point that a supposedly competent detective like Naoto should jump on immediately? At the very least it's suggesting that [[spoiler: a [[spoiler:a police probably planted evidence]].
** Because [[spoiler: it [[spoiler:it was only found on King Moron's clothing and not on any of the other victims, which is confirmed when the police mention that they can't tie Mitsuou to the first two victims.]]



** FridgeHorror: Who was talking about Yukiko being suspicious? The police, and, in particular, Adachi. [[spoiler: We later learn that he'd already used repeated questioning as a method of stalking and attempting to sexually assault a high-school girl. Since Yukiko is Namatame's first kidnapping, Adachi doesn't yet know whether Namatame will just leave Yukiko in the TV or whether Namatame can actually get her back. Adachi probably thinks suspecting Yukiko is a win-win: either she ends up dead and makes his colleagues look like morons (which he'd probably find hilarious), or she turns up alive and Adachi has an excuse for some long "interrogation" sessions. If Adachi then put her back in the TV, Namatame wouldn't go in looking for her because he doesn't realize that anyone else has TV-world powers. Presumably, when Adachi realized that the Investigation Team had saved Yukiko from the TV, he realized that he couldn't get away with molesting Yukiko, since the IT would just rescue her from the TV if Adachi threw her in.]]

to:

** FridgeHorror: Who was talking about Yukiko being suspicious? The police, and, in particular, Adachi. [[spoiler: We [[spoiler:We later learn that he'd already used repeated questioning as a method of stalking and attempting to sexually assault a high-school girl. Since Yukiko is Namatame's first kidnapping, Adachi doesn't yet know whether Namatame will just leave Yukiko in the TV or whether Namatame can actually get her back. Adachi probably thinks suspecting Yukiko is a win-win: either she ends up dead and makes his colleagues look like morons (which he'd probably find hilarious), or she turns up alive and Adachi has an excuse for some long "interrogation" sessions. If Adachi then put her back in the TV, Namatame wouldn't go in looking for her because he doesn't realize that anyone else has TV-world powers. Presumably, when Adachi realized that the Investigation Team had saved Yukiko from the TV, he realized that he couldn't get away with molesting Yukiko, since the IT would just rescue her from the TV if Adachi threw her in.]]



* Adachi and I think Naoto refer to how the victims were kidnapped, then murdered...but as far as the police should know, weren't Yamano, Saki, and [[spoiler: Morooka (though I don't think he counts for my question),]] up and murdered? Yukiko, Kanji, and Rise were just reported as having gone missing, anyway, weren't they? So where'd they get the kidnap and murder connection?
** If you mean how Naoto guessed about the murders, she mentions that she noticed that several people disappeared for a certain period of time after they appeared on television just like Yamano and Saki. As for Adachi [[spoiler: that's one of the hints that he knows what's really going on.]]

to:

* Adachi and I think Naoto refer to how the victims were kidnapped, then murdered...but as far as the police should know, weren't Yamano, Saki, and [[spoiler: Morooka [[spoiler:Morooka (though I don't think he counts for my question),]] up and murdered? Yukiko, Kanji, and Rise were just reported as having gone missing, anyway, weren't they? So where'd they get the kidnap and murder connection?
** If you mean how Naoto guessed about the murders, she mentions that she noticed that several people disappeared for a certain period of time after they appeared on television just like Yamano and Saki. As for Adachi [[spoiler: that's [[spoiler:that's one of the hints that he knows what's really going on.]]



*** Not necessarily. On their first visit they were perfectly fine after a night's rest (after running around in blinding fog for a while) and didn't encounter any shadows [[spoiler: except for Teddie]] in the area they met Teddie. Also it would have been cool to see Dojima's Persona.

to:

*** Not necessarily. On their first visit they were perfectly fine after a night's rest (after running around in blinding fog for a while) and didn't encounter any shadows [[spoiler: except [[spoiler:except for Teddie]] in the area they met Teddie. Also it would have been cool to see Dojima's Persona.



* When you're fighting [[spoiler: Kuni-no-Sagiri]], and if he uses Control on Naoto, there's a chance she'll use her regular attack. And shoot you. TV makes you bulletproof or something?

to:

* When you're fighting [[spoiler: Kuni-no-Sagiri]], [[spoiler:Kuni-no-Sagiri]], and if he uses Control on Naoto, there's a chance she'll use her regular attack. And shoot you. TV makes you bulletproof or something?



*** Personas supplementing supernatural resistance is already mentioned above, but it is unlikely that is the case ALL the time. For instance, [[spoiler: Shinjiro getting killed by two gunshots despite in-battle will likely survive similar attacks (the "shot" skills some shadows have), yet during Takaya's boss fight the shots do not do much damage, supporting thats its merely a simple way to convey what is happening, but should not be taken literally as well. Its explicitly observed in Persona 3 that Personas and their effects can only be invoked with the aid of an Evoker or by having sheer willpower to call them out.]]

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*** Personas supplementing supernatural resistance is already mentioned above, but it is unlikely that is the case ALL the time. For instance, [[spoiler: Shinjiro [[spoiler:Shinjiro getting killed by two gunshots despite in-battle will likely survive similar attacks (the "shot" skills some shadows have), yet during Takaya's boss fight the shots do not do much damage, supporting thats its merely a simple way to convey what is happening, but should not be taken literally as well. Its explicitly observed in Persona 3 that Personas and their effects can only be invoked with the aid of an Evoker or by having sheer willpower to call them out.]]



* [[spoiler: Naoto]] is fairly obviously upset with being a woman, and at the beginning of the story is pretty much trans. You "fix" her and one of your options for the Christmas date is a schoolgirl uniform. Dear god, let's hope the anime handles that better.
** Oooooooooooooooooooooor she's desperately hiding her gender because she doesn't fit in with what girls are supposed to be like in Japanese society, and she's going into a heavily male-dominated field, so she convinced herself she had to hide her true gender. Then Protagonist comes in and helps her deal with how she can pursue her dreams and still be a woman. Which is probably what the developers were going for in the first place. All the trans stuff is fans projecting like you would not believe.

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* [[spoiler: Naoto]] [[spoiler:Naoto]] is fairly obviously upset with being a woman, and at the beginning of the story is pretty much trans. You "fix" her and one of your options for the Christmas date is a schoolgirl uniform. Dear god, let's hope the anime handles that better.
** Oooooooooooooooooooooor she's desperately hiding her gender because she doesn't fit in with what girls are supposed to be like in Japanese society, and she's going into a heavily male-dominated field, so she convinced herself she had to hide her true gender. Then Protagonist comes in and helps her deal with how she can pursue her dreams and still be a woman. Which is probably what the developers were going for in the first place. All the trans stuff is fans projecting like you would not believe.



*** Both of [[spoiler: Naoto's]] Personae are based on male legendary figures. [[spoiler: Sukuna-Hikona]] is a tiny medicine kami (deity), and [[spoiler: Yamato-Takeru]] is a prince who was said to have become a white bird after his death.

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*** Both of [[spoiler: Naoto's]] [[spoiler:Naoto's]] Personae are based on male legendary figures. [[spoiler: Sukuna-Hikona]] [[spoiler:Sukuna-Hikona]] is a tiny medicine kami (deity), and [[spoiler: Yamato-Takeru]] [[spoiler:Yamato-Takeru]] is a prince who was said to have become a white bird after his death.



--> [[spoiler: '''Yukiko''': You must know already that what you yearn for isn't to become an adult or to become a boy...]]
--> [[spoiler: '''Naoto''': You're absolutely right.]]

--> [[spoiler: '''Naoto''': I have to be an adult...I have to be a man...with that way of thinking, I was running away from myself. I finally think I can accept myself. I am a ''woman''. And a detective.]]

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--> [[spoiler: '''Yukiko''': -->[[spoiler:'''Yukiko''': You must know already that what you yearn for isn't to become an adult or to become a boy...]]
--> [[spoiler: '''Naoto''': -->[[spoiler:'''Naoto''': You're absolutely right.]]

--> [[spoiler: '''Naoto''': -->[[spoiler:'''Naoto''': I have to be an adult...I have to be a man...with that way of thinking, I was running away from myself. I finally think I can accept myself. I am a ''woman''. And a detective.]]



** [[spoiler: Adachi]] wanted to keep the team from saving any more people and stopping the fun, and hoped that by scaring Protagonist the team would stop. Of course why the risk was taken when it could easily be found by someone else (like it was) is a good question.

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** [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] wanted to keep the team from saving any more people and stopping the fun, and hoped that by scaring Protagonist the team would stop. Of course why the risk was taken when it could easily be found by someone else (like it was) is a good question.



* Okay, so Chie's Shadow appeared at Yukiko's Castle, so she didn't get a dungeon. But what about Saki? Apparently time isn't a factor in the creation of a dungeon, seeing that all the others who are throw in there receive their dungeon in the same day, and she did appeared on the Midnight Channel. But while all the others programs had the Shadows appearing, Saki's was her death. Also aplies to that first lady. Her's is just a room. [[spoiler: And on top of it all, Adachi somehow manages to create his own dungeon and make it only accessable through there. So what, Adachi was so goddamn powerfull he could bend the TV World to his will? You were there for a whole year and it never appeared to make things easier when you wanted. In fact, it always made things worst.]] I can understand why their Shadows are gone after you defeat them, and I can understand why people who face their Shadows in other people's dungeons don't get any, but this is bugging me.

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* Okay, so Chie's Shadow appeared at Yukiko's Castle, so she didn't get a dungeon. But what about Saki? Apparently time isn't a factor in the creation of a dungeon, seeing that all the others who are throw in there receive their dungeon in the same day, and she did appeared on the Midnight Channel. But while all the others programs had the Shadows appearing, Saki's was her death. Also aplies to that first lady. Her's is just a room. [[spoiler: And [[spoiler:And on top of it all, Adachi somehow manages to create his own dungeon and make it only accessable through there. So what, Adachi was so goddamn powerfull he could bend the TV World to his will? You were there for a whole year and it never appeared to make things easier when you wanted. In fact, it always made things worst.]] I can understand why their Shadows are gone after you defeat them, and I can understand why people who face their Shadows in other people's dungeons don't get any, but this is bugging me.



** Because his fingerprints were never on the clothes to begin with. It turns out that [[spoiler: Adachi]] was responsible for that, which makes it even stranger that you can never bring that up in the game. At the least it should be obvious that [[spoiler: the police were tampering with evidence]] but even [[InformedAbility genius detective]] Naoto doesn't notice.
** The developers probably thought there was already enough evidence that Mitsuo didn't kill them, ie as you go through Void Quest you see his ramblings, and he "defeated" Mayumi and Saki but "killed" Morooka. And the fact that King Moron's cause of death was identifiable would have made it clear. It would have been better if you brought it up as you choose who you think was the suspect though, but it didn't happen earlier because we weren't supposed to suspect [[spoiler: Adachi]] yet.

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** Because his fingerprints were never on the clothes to begin with. It turns out that [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] was responsible for that, which makes it even stranger that you can never bring that up in the game. At the least it should be obvious that [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the police were tampering with evidence]] but even [[InformedAbility genius detective]] Naoto doesn't notice.
** The developers probably thought there was already enough evidence that Mitsuo didn't kill them, ie as you go through Void Quest you see his ramblings, and he "defeated" Mayumi and Saki but "killed" Morooka. And the fact that King Moron's cause of death was identifiable would have made it clear. It would have been better if you brought it up as you choose who you think was the suspect though, but it didn't happen earlier because we weren't supposed to suspect [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] yet.



*** They probably didn't have his prints until after he was arrested, and it was only after his arrest that the 'prints' were found on the victims' clothes, which means that [[spoiler: Adachi either planted them on the clothes or he just faked a test]].
*** I thought they only found Kubo's prints on Morooka's body. Doesn't Adachi say at one point that they had no proof Kubo killed Saki or Mayumi aside from his confession? [[spoiler: He'd have no reason to lie to the Protagonist about that, since he only needs Namatame to be convinced that the killer is still at large, not anyone else.]]

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*** They probably didn't have his prints until after he was arrested, and it was only after his arrest that the 'prints' were found on the victims' clothes, which means that [[spoiler: Adachi [[spoiler:Adachi either planted them on the clothes or he just faked a test]].
*** I thought they only found Kubo's prints on Morooka's body. Doesn't Adachi say at one point that they had no proof Kubo killed Saki or Mayumi aside from his confession? [[spoiler: He'd [[spoiler:He'd have no reason to lie to the Protagonist about that, since he only needs Namatame to be convinced that the killer is still at large, not anyone else.]]



*** Confirmed as of ''VideoGame/Persona4Arena'' where Yosuke tells Teddie to put an exit in the TV so that they can get out of the TV World if they accidentally get inside it. [[spoiler: Which sets up Kanji's hilarious story mode thinking it was AllJustADream.]]

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*** Confirmed as of ''VideoGame/Persona4Arena'' where Yosuke tells Teddie to put an exit in the TV so that they can get out of the TV World if they accidentally get inside it. [[spoiler: Which [[spoiler:Which sets up Kanji's hilarious story mode thinking it was AllJustADream.]]



* When [[spoiler: Adachi]] is cornered by the investigation team, Naoto tells him that she intially suspected him because he didn't react with any surprise to finding the names of other victims in [[spoiler: Namatame's]] diary, even though they had only been classified by the police as disappearances and not murders. But in the scene where they realize that Namatame has been behind the kidnappings, Naoto mentions that they were all intended victims right in front of him. Why is it suspicious that he knew there were other victims when she told him that herself? Isn't that flawed logic?
** What was supposed to be suspicious about [[spoiler: Adachi]] is that when Naoto first mentioned that they were 'victims' he didn't show any confusion or surprise. However it is pretty weak evidence, especially since this was in the middle of a [[spoiler: kidnapping]] and logically [[spoiler: Adachi]] would have had far more on his mind than Naoto's exact words. Unfortunately in these kinds of mystery games the player often has to accept people not thinking of things that they logically would and having reactions that are supposed to be suspicious when they can easily have innocent reasons.
*** Keep in mind that the Investigation Team is ''reaching'' by that point. The only reason [[spoiler: Adachi]] is even suspected is because he's the only one that they know makes some amount of sense. As he points out during his motive rant, the world doesn't want "the" killer, they want "a" killer. [[spoiler: And while he's proven wrong if you pursue the game to the TrueEnding, that doesn't change the fact that they were desperate by that point.]]

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* When [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] is cornered by the investigation team, Naoto tells him that she intially suspected him because he didn't react with any surprise to finding the names of other victims in [[spoiler: Namatame's]] [[spoiler:Namatame's]] diary, even though they had only been classified by the police as disappearances and not murders. But in the scene where they realize that Namatame has been behind the kidnappings, Naoto mentions that they were all intended victims right in front of him. Why is it suspicious that he knew there were other victims when she told him that herself? Isn't that flawed logic?
** What was supposed to be suspicious about [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] is that when Naoto first mentioned that they were 'victims' he didn't show any confusion or surprise. However it is pretty weak evidence, especially since this was in the middle of a [[spoiler: kidnapping]] [[spoiler:kidnapping]] and logically [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] would have had far more on his mind than Naoto's exact words. Unfortunately in these kinds of mystery games the player often has to accept people not thinking of things that they logically would and having reactions that are supposed to be suspicious when they can easily have innocent reasons.
*** Keep in mind that the Investigation Team is ''reaching'' by that point. The only reason [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] is even suspected is because he's the only one that they know makes some amount of sense. As he points out during his motive rant, the world doesn't want "the" killer, they want "a" killer. [[spoiler: And [[spoiler:And while he's proven wrong if you pursue the game to the TrueEnding, that doesn't change the fact that they were desperate by that point.]]



--> '''Yu''': Nobody knew about that. We hadn't told that police about the kidnappings that weren't murders... But when Naoto read the names [from the diary] you seemed to know already. How do you explain that, [[spoiler: Adachi]]?!

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--> '''Yu''': -->'''Yu''': Nobody knew about that. We hadn't told that police about the kidnappings that weren't murders... But when Naoto read the names [from the diary] you seemed to know already. How do you explain that, [[spoiler: Adachi]]?![[spoiler:Adachi]]?!



* Why does [[spoiler: Kunino-Sagiri]] know Kohryu's name?

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* Why does [[spoiler: Kunino-Sagiri]] [[spoiler:Kunino-Sagiri]] know Kohryu's name?



*** [[spoiler: Even if he didn't, Izanami did. Kunino-sagiri is still a facet of Izanami.]]

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*** [[spoiler: Even [[spoiler:Even if he didn't, Izanami did. Kunino-sagiri is still a facet of Izanami.]]



** [[spoiler: The Midnight Channel doesn't show the truth of what's going on, it shows what people want to see. Izanami said it herself, and Namatame appeared on the Midnight Channel when the IT wanted a reason to kill him. The "People see what's inside the TV!" stuff is almost purely gossip and those people probably only saw those "first episodes" the Shadows broadcast when their counterparts got kidnapped, and a few glimpses of violence. Remember how distorted Saki's image was when Seta first saw it? He didn't knew her well enough to actually recognize anything, while all the other programs were clear when he saw it. The same principle applies here.]]

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** [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The Midnight Channel doesn't show the truth of what's going on, it shows what people want to see. Izanami said it herself, and Namatame appeared on the Midnight Channel when the IT wanted a reason to kill him. The "People see what's inside the TV!" stuff is almost purely gossip and those people probably only saw those "first episodes" the Shadows broadcast when their counterparts got kidnapped, and a few glimpses of violence. Remember how distorted Saki's image was when Seta first saw it? He didn't knew her well enough to actually recognize anything, while all the other programs were clear when he saw it. The same principle applies here.]]



* How is it [[spoiler: Nanako]] could make a full recovery after being dead for almost a full day? Brain damage should have set in by then.
** ThePowerOfLove. But really, why are you questioning the logic when [[spoiler: she]] ''came back to life'' to begin with?
** Not any less wall-banging than when [[spoiler: Chidori]] was able to come back to life after being a corpse for quite some time in P3. Personae and the power of love seem to be quite effective at reversing death for some unexplained reason. Even though logically all of their brain cells should have turned to mush within minutes of their heart stopping.
** Well, A) [[spoiler: After she dies, Nametame is confronted almost IMMEDIATELY afterwards, and the whole incident shouldn't have taken more than 30 minutes, nowhere close to a day, leaving resuscitation within the realm of possibility (though I do like an earlier stated theory that her Arcana being Justice had something to do with it),]] and B) [[spoiler: I got the impression that Teddie (knowingly or not) was somehow responsible for her recovery.]]

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* How is it [[spoiler: Nanako]] [[spoiler:Nanako]] could make a full recovery after being dead for almost a full day? Brain damage should have set in by then.
** ThePowerOfLove. But really, why are you questioning the logic when [[spoiler: she]] [[spoiler:she]] ''came back to life'' to begin with?
** Not any less wall-banging than when [[spoiler: Chidori]] [[spoiler:Chidori]] was able to come back to life after being a corpse for quite some time in P3. Personae and the power of love seem to be quite effective at reversing death for some unexplained reason. Even though logically all of their brain cells should have turned to mush within minutes of their heart stopping.
** Well, A) [[spoiler: After [[spoiler:After she dies, Nametame is confronted almost IMMEDIATELY afterwards, and the whole incident shouldn't have taken more than 30 minutes, nowhere close to a day, leaving resuscitation within the realm of possibility (though I do like an earlier stated theory that her Arcana being Justice had something to do with it),]] and B) [[spoiler: I [[spoiler:I got the impression that Teddie (knowingly or not) was somehow responsible for her recovery.]]



* [[spoiler: When Adachi sends the letter that says, "someone close will be put in and killed", did he actually mean for Nanako specifically to be thrown into the TV, or someone like Yosuke or Chie or some other Social Link? Because I don't think it was ever mentioned that he was the one to get Nanako kind of mentioned in the news, and in general it kind of felt like an empty threat.]]
** It was an empty threat. [[spoiler: Adachi]] has no control over [[spoiler: the Midnight Channel]] so the most possible was to [[spoiler: threaten the main characters]]. Of course [[spoiler: Adachi]] could always just attack them.

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* [[spoiler: When [[spoiler:When Adachi sends the letter that says, "someone close will be put in and killed", did he actually mean for Nanako specifically to be thrown into the TV, or someone like Yosuke or Chie or some other Social Link? Because I don't think it was ever mentioned that he was the one to get Nanako kind of mentioned in the news, and in general it kind of felt like an empty threat.]]
** It was an empty threat. [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] has no control over [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the Midnight Channel]] so the most possible was to [[spoiler: threaten [[spoiler:threaten the main characters]]. Of course [[spoiler: Adachi]] [[spoiler:Adachi]] could always just attack them.



** I think it's more because said spoiler [[spoiler: is a previous generation to Aigis but somehow superior to her.]] Then again I haven't read it.

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** I think it's more because said spoiler [[spoiler: is [[spoiler:is a previous generation to Aigis but somehow superior to her.]] Then again I haven't read it.



* Who or what is the woman that appears at night in the shrine? Is she a run-of-the-mill ghost? Perhaps a bakeneko? The human form of [[spoiler: Fox]] (that is suspiciously absent at night, when you can see the woman)? Or is she really just an ordinary woman with poor judgement and a large gem collection?

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* Who or what is the woman that appears at night in the shrine? Is she a run-of-the-mill ghost? Perhaps a bakeneko? The human form of [[spoiler: Fox]] [[spoiler:Fox]] (that is suspiciously absent at night, when you can see the woman)? Or is she really just an ordinary woman with poor judgement and a large gem collection? collection?



[[folder: Naoto's Family]]

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[[folder: Naoto's [[folder:Naoto's Family]]



[[folder: "Okay Leader, we can let this person die even though I'm worried about them."]]

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[[folder: "Okay [[folder:"Okay Leader, we can let this person die even though I'm worried about them."]]



[[folder: "About Izanami's plans."]]]]
* So [[spoiler:Izanami]] wanted to turn everyone into shadows because [[spoiler:Adachi]], who represented emptiness, had the greatest effect on the town. What would she have done if she had instead chosen [[spoiler:Namatame]] (despair) or [[spoiler:the protagonist]] (hope)?

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[[folder: "About [[folder:"About Izanami's plans."]]]]
* So [[spoiler:Izanami]] wanted to turn everyone into shadows because [[spoiler:Adachi]], who represented emptiness, had the greatest effect on the town. What would she have done if she had instead chosen [[spoiler:Namatame]] (despair) or [[spoiler:the protagonist]] (hope)? (hope)?



[[folder: "King Moron" Moroka]]
* How the hell did this guy still have a teaching license[[spoiler: before he was finally killed]]? All he ever did for the most part was talk down to his students (even calling the protagonist a "loser from the city" right in front of the whole class) and treat them like a bunch of delinquents just because they weren't chaste, little children who valued their schoolwork over their lives outside the classroom. He even accused the protagonist of being abusive towards women! Is this just some sort of problem with the Japanese school system (at least for schools in more rural areas) that they don't care if the teacher is a total asshole or creep towards their students so long as said students get good grades under their teachings?
** Considering that they also have Ms. "Sexual-Harassement-Lawsuit-waiting-to-happen" Kashiwagi, and the P.E. Teacher also does English there must be a shortage on teachers, the others are kind of weird, but don't seem to be bad at their jobs. And a couple comments after he died show that King Moron wasn't so bad, and had a few Pet the Dog moments but any semblance of that isn't shown and falls into InformedAttribute, and he apparently had a few harsh words with Mitsuo, so he isn't very liked in general. Honestly, I'm surprised any student pays attention, with a guy like that, I'd just pick a random book to read and put some earphones during his lectures.

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[[folder: "King [[folder:"King Moron" Moroka]]
* How the hell did this guy still have a teaching license[[spoiler: before license [[spoiler:before he was finally killed]]? All he ever did for the most part was talk down to his students (even calling the protagonist a "loser from the city" right in front of the whole class) and treat them like a bunch of delinquents just because they weren't chaste, little children who valued their schoolwork over their lives outside the classroom. He even accused the protagonist of being abusive towards women! Is this just some sort of problem with the Japanese school system (at least for schools in more rural areas) that they don't care if the teacher is a total asshole or creep towards their students so long as said students get good grades under their teachings?
** Considering that they also have Ms. "Sexual-Harassement-Lawsuit-waiting-to-happen" Kashiwagi, and the P.E. Teacher also does English there must be a shortage on teachers, the others are kind of weird, but don't seem to be bad at their jobs. And a couple comments after he died show that King Moron wasn't so bad, and had a few Pet the Dog moments but any semblance of that isn't shown and falls into InformedAttribute, and he apparently had a few harsh words with Mitsuo, so he isn't very liked in general. Honestly, I'm surprised any student pays attention, with a guy like that, I'd just pick a random book to read and put some earphones during his lectures.



[[folder: What the hell, Teddie?]]

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[[folder: What [[folder:What the hell, Teddie?]]



[[folder: Namatame Fails at math]]
* Ok, this might seem weird, but it kinda stuck out to me. When you're talking with [[spoiler: Namatame]] in the Hospital, he says that [[spoiler: he put three people into the midnight channel.]] To me, this makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER, as [[spoiler: you rescue FOUR people that got put in. Yukiko, Kanji, Rise and Naoto.]] Who put the other person in? [[spoiler: Adachi?]]

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[[folder: Namatame [[folder:Namatame Fails at math]]
* Ok, this might seem weird, but it kinda stuck out to me. When you're talking with [[spoiler: Namatame]] [[spoiler:Namatame]] in the Hospital, he says that [[spoiler: he [[spoiler:he put three people into the midnight channel.]] To me, this makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER, as [[spoiler: you [[spoiler:you rescue FOUR people that got put in. Yukiko, Kanji, Rise and Naoto.]] Who put the other person in? [[spoiler: Adachi?]][[spoiler:Adachi?]]



[[folder: Romancing the girls and storyline]]

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[[folder: Romancing [[folder:Romancing the girls and storyline]]


Added DiffLines:

** Probably because "uncle" in Japanese is "oji-san", which sounds almost the same as "ojii-san" meaning "granpa/old man". Same deal with many anime series where women don't like to be called "aunt"/"oba-san" by their nephews/nieces because it's too phonetically similar to "grandma"/"obaa-san".
27th Jan '17 8:36:31 PM Valiona
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Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Yu calls his uncle by his last name?]]
*Why does Yu refer to his uncle as "Dojima-san," (or "Dojima" in a few dialogue choices while speaking with Adachi, like in the Mitsuo investigation, the start of the Jester Social Link and [[spoiler:when Jester transforms into Hunger]]) like virtually the entire rest of the cast besides Nanako does? Shouldn't he call Dojima "Uncle"?
[[/folder]]
14th Dec '16 8:26:22 PM MoPete
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Added DiffLines:

* Either this was a goof, [[spoiler:or it's a hint that "Shadow Teddie" is more than just Teddie's hidden thoughts.]]
3rd Dec '16 11:14:23 AM Valiona
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Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Shadow Teddie's Arcana]]
You'll notice that all the party members' Shadows have Arcanas that are the same as the resulting Persona. So why does Teddie, whose Persona is of The Star Arcana, have a Shadow that's shown to have The Moon as its in-game Arcana if you use Analysis on it in battle?
[[/folder]]
9th Aug '16 11:37:57 PM Lullaby22
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** Short answer: Yes, Adachi had a point, but it doesn't matter. He still killed people and he has to answer for that.

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** Short answer: Yes, Adachi had a point, but it doesn't matter. He still killed innocent people and he has to answer for that.
9th Aug '16 11:37:37 PM Lullaby22
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** Short answer: Yes, Adachi had a point, but it doesn't matter. He still killed people and he has to answer for that.
6th Aug '16 8:26:54 AM Valiona
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** I personally think that Persona Q actually works a little better with the Velvet Room functions being done by the characters unique to both games rather than having Igor, who appears in both. It would get a little complicated working out whether he's from 2009 or 2011.


Added DiffLines:

*** That's true, and it's also reflected with their Shadows. Shadow Chie is completely obsessed with controlling Yukiko to feel superior to her. Meanwhile, Shadow Yukiko suggests that Chie might have been her Prince, but she can't take her away from Inaba.


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** Yukiko's saying that Naoto would be scared because she's a girl is ranked third on her list of justifications, and an afterthought after the most relevant fact- that no one, not even Kanji, who singlehandedly beat up a biker gang, could resist the kidnapper.


Added DiffLines:

** If you go to bed when the time's almost up, you might get a phone call demanding that you go to the TV World, which happened to me late in December (since the game skips ahead after you clear Magatsu Inaba, this was the only dungeon I didn't do at the first opportunity).


Added DiffLines:

*** This is true, but the party doesn't seem to realize exactly how Adachi, Yu or Namatame got their powers until after they learn about Izanami's existence and plan.
** Rise actually says Adachi isn't completely wrong when he asks whether the Investigation Team is fighting for justice or for their own fulfillment, even if she adds that what he did is still unforgivable. As for the rest, Adachi isn't interested in changing anything- perhaps all he's experienced has embittered him, but he's mainly using that as an excuse to murder two people, manipulate a third party into kidnapping others, and watch as the world's enveloped in fog. Since the party have accepted their flaws and started working to overcome them, it's natural that they'd find what he's doing to be completely unacceptable and nonsensical.


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* It's strongly implied that the protagonist and his girlfriend(s) are keeping their relationship secret. If you talk to one girl in a dungeon, she'll blush and act embarrassed, while the other party member misinterprets her actions.
30th Jul '16 11:54:51 AM KINGBARBIE52
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[[folder:Did Adachi kinda have a point?.. (spoilers)]]

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[[folder:Did Adachi kinda have a point?.. point? (spoilers)]]


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**Adachi also argues that the only way to get ahead or be able to make something of your life is to be born with talent; otherwise you're worthless, and you can only accept or lie to yourself about that. As we see through the events of the game, and upon learning the true extent of everything that's been going on, this really ''is'' BS. Neither he nor the MC nor even Namatame were born with their own talent, instead having it bestowed upon them by an outside force, but an even more significant case is of the MC's partners; none of them were TouchedByVorlons, instead only gaining their power through the same kind of hard work and introspection that Adachi says is useless. Granted, the kids could've also raised this point and made better arguments in general, but Adachi's arguments don't hold too much water either.
30th Jul '16 11:36:11 AM KINGBARBIE52
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[[folder: "About Izanami's plans.."]]
* So [[spoiler:Izanami]] wanted to turn everyone into shadows because [[spoiler:Adachi]], who represented emptiness, had the greatest effect on the town. What would she have done if she had instead chosen [[spoiler:Namatame]] (despair) or [[spoiler:the protagonist]] (hope)? \

to:

[[folder: "About Izanami's plans.."]]
plans."]]]]
* So [[spoiler:Izanami]] wanted to turn everyone into shadows because [[spoiler:Adachi]], who represented emptiness, had the greatest effect on the town. What would she have done if she had instead chosen [[spoiler:Namatame]] (despair) or [[spoiler:the protagonist]] (hope)? \


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**Well she did at least back off when "hope" won in the (true) end, so she's not totally inflexible.
29th Jul '16 11:02:55 PM KINGBARBIE52
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**Definitely for the lulz, especially considering that participants aren't allowed to back out even if signed up without their consent/knowledge.
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