History Headscratchers / MoulinRouge

13th Jul '17 11:42:57 PM Chariset
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** It's possible it was an AppropriatedAppellation -- calling people dogs, especially women, isn't such a terrific idea now (cf. "bitch" as an insult) or in David Bowie's day, but paired with the glamorous and beautiful associations of the word "diamond", it might have been an insult slung at the women of the Moulin Rouge that stuck, or a self-deprecating moniker referencing both the dance hall's glitzy aesthetic and the women's harsh way of life.

to:

** It's possible it was an AppropriatedAppellation -- calling people dogs, especially women, isn't such a terrific idea now (cf. "bitch" as an insult) or in David Bowie's day, but paired with the glamorous and beautiful associations of the word "diamond", it might have been an insult slung at the women of the Moulin Rouge that stuck, or a self-deprecating moniker referencing both the dance hall's glitzy aesthetic and the women's harsh way of life.life.
** They're hustlers. They'll sniff out all the money you've got on you and try to get it all before the night is over.
4th Jul '17 10:10:28 AM nombretomado
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** FWIW although the nobility as an institution was abolished in 1870, according to TheOtherWiki the hereditary titles themselves were restored in France in 1852 and weren't abolished since, so you could still have the official title of 'Duke' in post-1870 France; it's just that it doesn't really mean anything anymore in terms of political power and authority, and the government doesn't award such titles or create new aristocracy, it's basically just a title your family happened to have that you inherited. But that's kind of academic since the Duke himself is pretty clearly suggested to be British.

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** FWIW although the nobility as an institution was abolished in 1870, according to TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki the hereditary titles themselves were restored in France in 1852 and weren't abolished since, so you could still have the official title of 'Duke' in post-1870 France; it's just that it doesn't really mean anything anymore in terms of political power and authority, and the government doesn't award such titles or create new aristocracy, it's basically just a title your family happened to have that you inherited. But that's kind of academic since the Duke himself is pretty clearly suggested to be British.
4th Jul '17 3:46:16 AM DoctorNemesis
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** FWIW although the nobility as an institution was abolished in 1870, according to TheOtherWiki the hereditary titles themselves were restored in France in 1852 and weren't abolished since, so you could still have the official title of 'Duke' in post-1870 France; it's just that it doesn't really mean anything anymore in terms of political power and authority, and the government doesn't award such titles or create new aristocracy anymore. But that's kind of academic since the Duke himself is pretty clearly suggested to be British.

to:

** FWIW although the nobility as an institution was abolished in 1870, according to TheOtherWiki the hereditary titles themselves were restored in France in 1852 and weren't abolished since, so you could still have the official title of 'Duke' in post-1870 France; it's just that it doesn't really mean anything anymore in terms of political power and authority, and the government doesn't award such titles or create new aristocracy anymore.aristocracy, it's basically just a title your family happened to have that you inherited. But that's kind of academic since the Duke himself is pretty clearly suggested to be British.
4th Jul '17 1:40:25 AM DoctorNemesis
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** FWIW although the nobility as an institution was abolished in 1870, actual hereditary titles were restored in France in 1852 and weren't abolished at the same time, so you could still have the official title of 'Duke' in post-1870 France; it's just that it doesn't really mean anything anymore in terms of political power and authority, and the government doesn't award such titles or create new aristocracy anymore. But that's kind of academic since the Duke himself is pretty clearly suggested to be British.

to:

** FWIW although the nobility as an institution was abolished in 1870, actual according to TheOtherWiki the hereditary titles themselves were restored in France in 1852 and weren't abolished at the same time, since, so you could still have the official title of 'Duke' in post-1870 France; it's just that it doesn't really mean anything anymore in terms of political power and authority, and the government doesn't award such titles or create new aristocracy anymore. But that's kind of academic since the Duke himself is pretty clearly suggested to be British.
4th Jul '17 1:30:50 AM DoctorNemesis
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Added DiffLines:

** FWIW although the nobility as an institution was abolished in 1870, actual hereditary titles were restored in France in 1852 and weren't abolished at the same time, so you could still have the official title of 'Duke' in post-1870 France; it's just that it doesn't really mean anything anymore in terms of political power and authority, and the government doesn't award such titles or create new aristocracy anymore. But that's kind of academic since the Duke himself is pretty clearly suggested to be British.
25th Mar '17 4:13:17 AM Ingonyama
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*** I think (correct me if I'm wrong here) that the original troper thought that Toulouse and intentionally set up the situation and intended Christian to be mistaken for the Duke - my interpretation was that Toulouse had set up a meeting for Christian as a writer, and Satine/Zidler had forgotten or just ignored this as the meeting with the Duke was far more important. The mistaken identity was a happy coincidence as far as Toulouse was concerned. The hanky confusion was just that - confusion. It's a bit far-fetched to think that Toulouse could somehow have orchestrated the hanky mess up, and the reason he switched after apologising and called the Duke and his minder "Bourgeois pigs!" was because he was drunk on absinthe and they were being obnoxious. One person's suspicious timing is another's serendipitous, story-starting coincidence...

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*** I think (correct me if I'm wrong here) that the original troper thought that Toulouse and Zidler intentionally set up the situation and intended Christian to be mistaken for the Duke - my interpretation was that Toulouse had set up a meeting for Christian as a writer, and Satine/Zidler had forgotten or just ignored this as the meeting with the Duke was far more important. The mistaken identity was a happy coincidence as far as Toulouse was concerned. The hanky confusion was just that - confusion. It's a bit far-fetched to think that Toulouse could somehow have orchestrated the hanky mess up, and the reason he switched after apologising and called the Duke and his minder "Bourgeois pigs!" was because he was drunk on absinthe and they were being obnoxious. One person's suspicious timing is another's serendipitous, story-starting coincidence...
11th Jan '17 4:52:59 AM momur
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** Also, keep in mind that the Argentinian claims the main part during their pitch of the show to the Duke. During that scene, everyone is clearly flying by the seats of their pants trying to convince the Duke that they have a project that's worth his investment. Everyone's probably just too busy trying to keep ahead of the Duke while they're making the pitch to argue with who's claiming what part and then they'd be too busy actually getting the show and theatre conversion together to worry about it.
10th Jun '16 3:19:39 PM ShadowWingLG
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** A deleted scene helps explain this, adding the electric lights and such to the Moulin had sunk Zidler deep into debt, and the profits from the nightclub weren't cutting it so in order to pay off the old debt AND have enough left over for the conversion to a theater he needed an outside investor. Satine was the bait for Duke and her job was to convince him to invest in the club to theater scheme.
7th Jun '16 3:53:25 PM fearlessnikki
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** The club has electricity, which wasn't at all cheap in the early 1900s. The Moulin Rouge could have barely been scraping even. They need the Duke to both be the financer - giving them enough money to convert to a theatre - and their patron - getting respectable, wealthy names in the seats once it's open.


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** The Duke shows himself to be a {{Yandere}} and it's entirely possible that he would have thrown the deal out if he knew Satine was dying. Presumably Zidler was hoping that Satine would survive long enough for the initial performances of the new theatre.


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** They're not exactly able to set aside time to find new performers in addition to all the other work that needs to be done. The Argentinian just might be good enough to justify keeping him on while money is scarce. Maybe he never fell asleep during a performance before.


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** It's also possible she was jealous and wanted to knock Satine down a peg or two.


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** Maybe consumption wasn't what she had? Christian is the one telling the story and - like ''many'' writers of the 19th and early 20th centuries - didn't quite know how the disease worked. Given that she was a high class prostitute, it's possible she had an STD of some kind. Christian of course would know nothing about those kinds of diseases (no TV or internet to let him in on the facts), and just assumed consumption was what she died of.
10th Jan '16 2:53:37 PM kalliston
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* Why were the prostitutes at the Moulin Rouge called "Diamond Dogs"? I know it's supposed to be a reference to the song of the same name, but I read that in the past, such as the 19th Century the movie takes place in, calling someone a dog was considered a harsh insult. So in that case, wouldn't that sort of be [[SnarkBait giving the people who don't like prostitution a free pass to make fun of them]]? Zidler [[DidntThinkThisThrough didn't think that through]].

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* Why were the prostitutes at the Moulin Rouge called "Diamond Dogs"? I know it's supposed to be a reference to the song of the same name, but I read that in the past, such as the 19th Century the movie takes place in, calling someone a dog was considered a harsh insult. So in that case, wouldn't that sort of be [[SnarkBait giving the people who don't like prostitution a free pass to make fun of them]]? Zidler [[DidntThinkThisThrough didn't think that through]].through]].
** It's possible it was an AppropriatedAppellation -- calling people dogs, especially women, isn't such a terrific idea now (cf. "bitch" as an insult) or in David Bowie's day, but paired with the glamorous and beautiful associations of the word "diamond", it might have been an insult slung at the women of the Moulin Rouge that stuck, or a self-deprecating moniker referencing both the dance hall's glitzy aesthetic and the women's harsh way of life.
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