History Headscratchers / MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny

*** Not either of the original two debaters here, but honestly, the entire thing screams of over-simplification caused by the writers not understanding what neutrality actually ''means''. As far as we're led to believe, the key tenet of Orb's neutrality is that they don't ''fight'' for one side or the other, and refuse to declare their allegiance to either side; they're "neutral" in that they're not openly a member of the EA or allied with ZAFT. Yes, this breaks real-world neutrality rules and laws, that much is clear. But more importantly, it suggests that while the writers say "neutral", they actually mean '''independent'''. If we make this assumption, then the whole "neutrality" thing makes a lot more sense: Orb isn't a member of any of the EA's constituent nation-states, nor is it a member of the PLANTs. It's free to interact with both, but isn't legally recognised as siding with either; this is true of independence, but not of neutrality. It also lends more credence to the EA's threats (they were threatening to conquer Orb), and gives Shinn's immature viewpoint a leg to stand on (in that he's mad that being an independent nation with a small army meant anyone could invade and they wouldn't have a "big brother" to back them up), funnily enough, which is another point for the "neutrality means independence" writing kerfluffle.

*** In particular, the biggest one here is the total absense of Phase Shift armour, made possible by its mirror coating. PSA is one of the biggest drains on mobile suit power ''by far'' (mainly due to its always-on nature, coupled with a power spike whenever anything hits it), with multiple advances being made ''just to keep it from crippling anything battery-powered in drawn-out battles'' (the Strike Rouge's special PS armour that can be reconfigured before battle to adjust the effectiveness & power drain, the Calamity's/Forbidden's/Raider's Trans PS armour that only activates when an unpowered outer layer is breached, and the Impulse's Variable PS armour that automatically adjusts mid-battle depending on current equipment, plus the Second Stage Gundams in general being designed so that the Minerva can recharge them mid-battle ''without'' them having to land and power down first). So, not having it means that the Akatsuki doesn't have the same kind of constant power drain that literally every other mecha in the setting has, and only loses energy when it actually does something. This is a '''big''' difference.

*** It's stated that Terminal had no contact with them. In fact nobody Durandal or Terminal actually knew what side they were really on as they were offically with Zaft, but weren't Durandal loyalists as seen when Yzak reprimands one of his men for blindly praising Durandal's regime without actually thinking about it. As a result Durandal put his squad in the back line away from the fight (but Yzak used his comander's authority to head to the front anyway), and Terminal didn't bother contacting. As it turns out, they opted to side to with Terminal in the end despite the episode trying to imply they choose the opposite. In fact Yzak seems annoyed that Lacus wouldn't assume he and Dearka weren't on board with their plan.

Some of this gets frankly ridiculous (Durandal blantantly says to target Orb at the end but his supporters insist he must mean to target the government buildings only and leave the civilians unharmed.) but others have some point because the show doesn't outright explain stuff like whether he really sent those assassins or not unless like mentioned hear, you work out the logic yourself.

* What exactly about the Strike Freedom makes it a ''Strike'' Freedom? Its new elements don't really have anything to do with the Strike (really, the Destiny has more similarities with the Strike than the Strike Freedom does) and some of the older elements than linked the two suits have been removed (such as the yellow portion of the Freedom's v-fin setup being identical to the Strike's). And if they were just going for ThemeNaming, why isn't the Infinite Justice called the Aegis Justice?

** It looked to this troper that Kira's words managed to snap Rey out of his CloningBlues and convinced him that he wasn't bound by fate since was his own person who could decide his own destiny, which runs contrary to Durandal's Destiny Plan, which would rob people of that. Still, it was very poorly executed on the series' part, and didn't quite warrant a bullet.

* Now that we know that most of the interviews are just results of misconceptions by the {{fandom}}, there is still some things about Mitsuo Fukuda's messages on Twitter I've heard recently. Like saying that Morosawa's cancer is actually a depression and that he didn't like that Creator/KenichiSuzumura and Creator/MaayaSakamoto (who respectly voiced Shinn and Lunamaria) are married. Is that true or it's the {{hate dumb}} striking again?

*** Positron weapons cause "positronic interference" and environmental damage when in atmosphere, there are the effects to prove they are different than normal beams. However, [[FrickinLaserBeams normal beams are not actual lasers]], so the armor is doing something more exotic than reflecting energy, in fact there's a notable delay between absorbing the beam and firing it back, even keeping the same color. Since the Armor is somehow able to briefly store the beam without it releasing it's destructive energy into the armor, it can similarly store positrons a release them before they cause ill effect (antimatter storage exists in real-life) because {{Technobabble}}.

*** Exactly. Regardless of whatever actions Morgenroete (a non-government company, which apparently also had subsidiaries in the EA) may have secretly taken, ''Orb itself'' is still considered to be openly neutral. It's very likely, though, to be a case of PlausibleDeniability: It's shown that the government has ties to the company (case in point, Athha blowing up the main Morgenroete facility to take the mass driver out), and Morgenroete's goal was explicitly to use the EA to gain the ability to create mobile suits for Orb's own use, so it's highly likely the entire situation was designed specifically so Morgenroete could be scapegoated if any of the covert events were exposed.

** There are several reasons why the Akatsuki was so effective. The first part is its mirror coating, which is what allows it to reflect beam weapons. If you consider the path of technical developments that occurred in the intervening years, one of the most obvious trends is the shift to an overwhelming reliance on beam weapons by both major factions in the conflict. In the previous war, the Akatsuki's effectiveness would have been somewhat iffy because its mirror coating means that it can't use Phase Shift armor and there are still a number of mobile suits and the like that rely on mass-based weapons as their primary form of attack. But fast-forward two years and now the Akatsuki is by default, basically immune to 90% of the weapons that would be employed by any potential opponents. Furthermore, because it doesn't use PS armor, the Akatsuki is free to use that power for other functions, like its DRAGOON system. Another thing to note is that the Akatsuki is likely based off of the Strike, and so uses interchangeable equipment modules. It's not out of the question that even though the mobile suit itself was finished earlier in the series that some of its striker pack upgrades, namely the DRAGOON based one, could have been developed later down the line. And finally, in all of its uses after its initial appearance, the Akatsuki is piloted by none other than Mwu La Flaga, who is just that badass.

*** In particular, the biggest one here is the total absense of Phase Shift armour, made possible by its mirror coating. PSA is one of the biggest drains on mobile suit power ''by far'' (mainly due to its always-on nature, coupled with a power spike whenever anything hits it), with multiple advances being made ''just to keep it from crippling anything battery-powered in drawn-out battles'' (the Strike Rouge' special PS armour that can be reconfigured before battle to adjust the effectiveness & power drain, the Calamity's/Forbidden's/Raider's Trans PS armour that only activates when an unpowered outer layer is breached, and the Impulse's Variable PS armour that automatically adjusts mid-battle depending on current equipment, plus the Second Stage Gundams in general being designed so that the Minerva can recharge them mid-battle ''without'' them having to land and power down first). So, not having it means that the Akatsuki doesn't have the same kind of constant power drain that literally every other mecha in the setting has, and only loses energy when it actually does something. This is a '''big''' difference.

** [[RuleofCool Because it looks cool?]] [[WildMassGuessing Or maybe they're supposed to be sharp so that he can stab Phase Shiftless enemies with them?]]

* WordOfGod maintains that Kira and friends were indeed the villains - leaving aside the ethical issues of [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans Durandal's plan]] (and the InternetBackdraft), the series ends with Kira ''winning'' and being, at least in-series, endorsed as right all along. So does that make Destiny an epic DownerEnding, or...?

* What are the protrusions on the ends of the Infinite Justice Gundams shoulders? They're not beam boomerangs like the original Justice nor do they contain extra thrusters. Do they even serve a practical purpose?

* As far a bust size difference is concerned I heard that the explanation to the public was her genes were coordinated to have her 'blossom' at that age.

** FragileSpeedster. Its gimmick is the power intensive "Wings of Light" which lets it overwhelm opponents via speed which more, heavier equipment and a Core Block System would interfere with (the latter is why the Destiny Impulse [[FlawedPrototype stayed a prototype]]). As for the shield, Shinn had luck throwing it then ricochets a beam off it at an unsuspecting foe, which bring me to the main problem, [[WorfHadTheFlu Shinn's deteriorating mental state meant he lost the use of creative tactics that the Destiny and its arsenal were designed for]].

* Is it just me or does the Destiny Gundam's arsenal seem like a step back. It's effective armament is all handheld and its palm blasters, so it can only use two weapons at a time when other Gundams, even the Impulse it upgrades can use several. Even the Destiny's prototype the Destiny Impulse had both the Impulse's {{BFS}}s and {{BFG}}s but the Destiny only has only one of each. And why does it have a physical shield if has a beam shield in each hand? This MasterOfNone armament has caused it to lose against all the Gundams if fought, which are exactly the priority threats you'd think the Destiny would be expected to counter, and even let a mook machine briefly hold against it. So what's with the apparently poorly thought out arsenal?

** The Windams were designed for DeathFromAbove, which would give the range advantage a justification. Maybe the range would be useful against mooks but the AcePilot main characters are skilled enough to close the distance to the point the advantage is lost.

** As of what we've seen so far, Shinn is working with Kira and Lacus on Plant while Mu is with Athrun and Cagalli in Orb. Thus far they've never met, and as far as Shinn seems to be concerned Neo died in Berlin and he's never laid eyes on Mu. And that's all we've gotten thus far.

* This is an issue that has bugged me for the entire series. Forget all the other issues. For me, this one is the biggest Headscratchers of all. So here it is: Why did Shinn focus all his hate on Orb? And Cagali's family specifically? Let's not think about how some people wanted Orb to be sacks or any of that. The fact is that The Earth Alliance is far more responsible, or at least equally responsible for the death of his family, being the ones that invaded and all. Really, I get that he feels they didn't do enough to protect the city, but should't he have some grudge towards the EA as well? We all know Shinn does not hesitate to tear into someone he hates (the numerous times he ripped on Cagalli), so why just Orb?

* How can Shinn and Luna belive Durandel when he says that Athrun and Meyrin were with Logos? Logos was(if I'm remembering right)was a part of or at least connected to Blue Cosmos which is anti-coordinator,which means there is no way in hell they'd ever have coordinator members yet Shinn and Luna buy the story hook,line,and sinker. Shouldn't they know better? Sure at first they were upset over Athrun and Meyrin supposedly dying but shouldn't they have realized they were lied to later on once the shock wore off? Shinn may not be known for using his brain but Luna at least was suspicious over the fake Lacus thing so what gives?

*** Luna threw herself into Shinn's arms and started crying about how Athrun and Meyrin must been tricked. It seems better to assume the writers actually thought this was good writing.

*** You are correct in that but none the less the AA crew all went into hiding and just hoped everything would get better (though in all fairness none of them knew about Logos). They did more or less outright admit that them running off and leaving the world to clean up after itself was a mistake born of their selfishness for wanting to recooperate and get over their various trauma's from the events of Seed, and that's why they all stayed in the spotlight this time, after Destiny's ending. In series anyway. The out of series reason is that Bandai demanded a sequel to Seed due to its success despite Seed not being written with a sequel in mind, AND they wanted it not long after Seed so all the (extremely popular and pretty much the reason for Seed's success) surviving characters could return relatively unchanged appearance wise. So they suddenly had to rewrite it so the war would flare up again, and had it so that the Seed cast didn't ensure the peace stuck.

* I'm probably opening a can of worms here but...if Neo/Mu is a clone of the original Mu like some belive,wouldn't he have the same health problems as Rau and Rey? Wouldn't the archangel's crew have noticed this after awhile since he'd start to degrade or at least show signs of illness/weakness? Further if Neo WAS supposed to be a clone wouldn't they have shown him taking those pills at least once or are we supposed to belive that the Earth Alliance or Logos or whoever can make successful clones when they can't even get their own Extendeds to work right? Of course if Neo is NOT a clone and is in fact the genuine article,that still doesn't explain how in the hell he survived Jachine Due...
** While this is largely conjecture, assuming Neo is not a clone (because there wouldn't really be much point to clone Mu), it is possible that he survived in a similar fashion to Kira in his battles, granted, he isn't a co-ordinator, but he was piloting an improved version of the strike, which has already shown a good record of pilot survivability in situations like this. It is possible that he could have just been very lucky, and then been picked up by Earth Alliance troops. In short, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he is not a clone, since there is no reason for him to be one. I am only saying that it is not impossible that he survived Jachine Due simply by virtue of being in a tough suit, being particularly lucky and, of course, Being the man with a knack for making the impossible possible.

*** As far as why he lashed out at Kira, it's basically because Shinn was a hypocrite when it came to Stella. She set off his sister issues, and therefore was to be prioritized above all else, as seen by his callousness towards the Minerva medical staff (who he barely interacted with) when Stella lashed out at them and later when he beat them up to save her. So of course Kira killing her would be met with rage, because in his mind, anyone that isn't doing their all to save Stella is wrong. And you can tell he has a double standard because for all his talk defending Stella about how wrong it was for EA to force being an Extended on anyone, and how she didn't ask for this and so forth, when he fought Auel he killed him without a thought, because he didn't set off his sister issues so Shinn really didn't care.

** Yes but the thing is, Kira and Lacus are still on thin ice. Quite a few people, especially in Zaft whole heartedly supported Durandal, and therefore they have to be lenient to everyone lest they look even more like unlawful usurpers who conquered Plant with a foreign (Orb) army. Because that's basically what they did. Hence they can't just make an example of Shinn. Nor do they want to. They want Shinn on their side. As far as Shinn killing Orb soldiers and attacking Cagalli, if Cagalli herself gives him a pass, the Orb officials have no choice but to accept this. The only other people that suffered at Shinn's hands were Logos or Logos supporters who basically have no grounds to complain about anything. So Shinn's pretty much in the clear since neither Lacus nor Cagalli want to throw him under the bus, even though they could.

* One thing this troper wonders about: at the end, Shinn just joined up with Kira. Mu was Neo, who (hopefully on orders from above that he had to follow) stuck Stella in the Destroy, who Shinn loved as a surrogate sister. Is there any official word on the Shinn/Mu dynamics going forward? Does Shinn never make the connection, do the two never meet, any Word of God on this?

*** Because the Impulse was a prototype, so they only made one. The time and resources to make another went instead to the new, higher performing Gundams.

** Also, on that subject, why weren't Rey and Luna given Impulses? The Minerva had a catapult specifically for launching the Impulse, and as the battle against the Freedom proved they had a large supply of Leg and Chest Flyers and assorted packs, so why didn't they jsut stock up on extra Core Splendors and give them to Rey and Luna instead of their crappy non-flying ZAKUs?
** More to the point, when it was launching, WHY DO THE ENEMIES NEVER TRY TO SHOOT IT DOWN? Seriously. It's completely open!
*** The same reason TalkingIsAFreeAction and monsters never attack magical girls when they transform[[note]]Besides seeing them naked[[/note]]. Because the plot demands it.
*** Core Block Systems, as they're called in UC, have been described as horrifically expensive and wasteful glorified ejection systems. The Impulse was probably never designed for mass-production, just an experimental unit due to the success of the Striker Pack during the last war. The EA adopted it wholesale, with most of the Dagger line and the Windam using it as well. The stock footage launching is just plain stupid, however.
*** The ''Impulse'' '''is''' an experimental mobile suit, same with the ''Chaos'', ''Gaia'', ''Abyss'', ''Saviour'', ''Destiny'', and ''Legend''. Ever wondered what the "X" in their designations means?