History Headscratchers / MetalGearSolid4GunsOfThePatriots

17th Feb '18 1:27:57 AM nombretomado
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** According to the Metal Gear database that you can download off the PlayStationNetwork as an add-on, Vamp already had preternatural healing abilities. The nanotech inside him just augmented what he already had. As for the pinning your shadow with knives thing, that's also mentioned in the MGDB; it's supposed to be an old ninja technique whose Japanese name translates to "shadow stitching", and depends partly on the victim's belief that the technique works.

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** According to the Metal Gear database that you can download off the PlayStationNetwork UsefulNotes/PlayStationNetwork as an add-on, Vamp already had preternatural healing abilities. The nanotech inside him just augmented what he already had. As for the pinning your shadow with knives thing, that's also mentioned in the MGDB; it's supposed to be an old ninja technique whose Japanese name translates to "shadow stitching", and depends partly on the victim's belief that the technique works.
16th Feb '18 2:07:21 AM hplcr
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* What is up with the Syringes in the final battle against Liquid? All the syringes are supposed to do is suppress Nanomachines, but there's no sign of nanomachines being the problem at the time. If anything, the way they keep injecting themselves/each other in order to keep going in the fight, it's more like they're injecting heroin!

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* What is up with the Syringes in the final battle against Liquid? All the syringes are supposed to do is suppress Nanomachines, but there's no sign of nanomachines being the problem at the time. If anything, the way they keep injecting themselves/each other in order to keep going in the fight, it's more like they're injecting heroin!heroin!
* So what's with the FROGs near the end suddenly deciding to be all sporting and such? [[spoiler: Snake nearly drops dead in the hallway before he even reaches the microwave hallway]] and the nearest FROGs decide that [[spoiler: instead of shooting him, to pull out their big ass knives/swords to take him down that way, even when Raiden shows up to cover Snake's escape]]. Despite spending the entire game gunning people down, why do they suddenly decide to give [[spoiler: Snake and Raiden half a chance of defending themselves]]?
* So I know that it's said the whole [[spoiler:REX debacle was a major embarrassment to the US Government after Metal Gear Solid]], but I still don't see how that explains the fact [[spoiler:Shadow Moses was pretty much just abandoned]]. The place was a [[spoiler:NUCLEAR WEAPONS DISPOSAL FACILITY and it looked like they just left without bothering to move/dispose of anything, including REX itself]]. Considering [[spoiler: REX is literally an intercontinental nuclear delivery system, it seems bizarre the US government would just leave it there for anyone to come grab it(such as Ocelot and Snake did)]]. This troper is kinda surprised that nobody [[spoiler: Stole REX and it's railgun in the intervening decade]].
23rd Oct '17 1:34:46 AM Polokun
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* One the ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'' flashbacks features [[spoiler: the Patriots's codec conversation with Raiden prior to his battle with Solidus]]. Snake never witnessed this, so why is it one of his flashbacks?

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* One the ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'' flashbacks features [[spoiler: the Patriots's codec conversation with Raiden prior to his battle with Solidus]]. Snake never witnessed this, so why is it one of his flashbacks?flashbacks?
* What is up with the Syringes in the final battle against Liquid? All the syringes are supposed to do is suppress Nanomachines, but there's no sign of nanomachines being the problem at the time. If anything, the way they keep injecting themselves/each other in order to keep going in the fight, it's more like they're injecting heroin!
2nd Sep '17 11:58:43 AM HalcyonDayz
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** My guess would be that every instance of the plural form is censored. It's not that they aren't able to say "Patriots", it's just that every time they hear it, it sounds like "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo". In Act 1 Snake talks to Meryl. Don't remember quite what it was about, something about Liquid. And he asked her something about the Patriots. As a player, we can hear him say Patriots. Meryl's response? "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo? What are you talking about?" In this reality, there most likely isn't a reason that anyone would use the word patriot anymore, let alone patriots. The football team? Who says they are even around in the MGS universe? We don't even know if they play sports anymore as of MGS4. Yes you can debate that Rising confirmed that people played sports now. But that's 4 years after The Patriots had been destroyed and the war economy was gone. People could go back to watching baseball, basketball, football, etc. because there was a lot more peace. Armstrong said he played ball in college, but given how old he is, that was long before the war economy. If you country is at war, you don't have any time to go see a ball game, most of the fit people are probably fighting anyways. The war economy also most likely got rid of the idea of patriotism for a while. The fights we see in MGS4 are proxy wars. The soldiers are fighting for money and because they are told to fight. Nobody is exactly fighting for their country, not in the PMCs anyway. So why use patriot to describe any of the soldiers fighting? That's just my take on it though.

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** My guess would be that every instance of the plural form is censored. It's not that they aren't able to say "Patriots", it's just that every time they hear it, it sounds like "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo". In Act 1 Snake talks to Meryl. Don't remember quite what it was about, something about Liquid. And he asked her something about the Patriots. As a player, we can hear him say Patriots. Meryl's response? "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo? What are you talking about?" In this reality, there most likely isn't a reason that anyone would use the word patriot anymore, let alone patriots. The football team? Who says they are even around in the MGS universe? We don't even know if they play sports anymore as of MGS4.''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid4GunsOfThePatriots''. Yes you can debate that Rising confirmed that people played sports now. But that's 4 years after The Patriots had been destroyed and the war economy was gone. People could go back to watching baseball, basketball, football, etc. because there was a lot more peace. Armstrong said he played ball in college, but given how old he is, that was long before the war economy. If you country is at war, you don't have any time to go see a ball game, most of the fit people are probably fighting anyways. The war economy also most likely got rid of the idea of patriotism for a while. The fights we see in MGS4 ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid4GunsOfThePatriots'' are proxy wars. The soldiers are fighting for money and because they are told to fight. Nobody is exactly fighting for their country, not in the PMCs anyway. So why use patriot to describe any of the soldiers fighting? That's just my take on it though.



** My person theory about Vamps' regeneration is this: he was born naturally with enough healing ability to survive what happened to him when he was a kid, then when he got recruited for dead cell [[spoiler: they gave him experimental G1-2 nanomachines, which increased his abilities to the point they were in ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'', it made him super durable, but not so durable that headshots wouldn't put him down for a good while, long enough to cause scarfication, then by the point of MGS4 his nanomachines had been upgraded to G3, basically making him recover from a headshot on the same spot in like what? a few minutes]] but at the same time his body clearly cant handle the speed in which he heals, hence his vampiric look, and maybe explains the weird bendy crap he does, he isnt dancing or just trying to be freaky, his joints are literally screwed to the point he can barely stand up and move properly!

to:

** My person theory about Vamps' regeneration is this: he was born naturally with enough healing ability to survive what happened to him when he was a kid, then when he got recruited for dead cell [[spoiler: they gave him experimental G1-2 nanomachines, which increased his abilities to the point they were in ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'', it made him super durable, but not so durable that headshots wouldn't put him down for a good while, long enough to cause scarfication, then by the point of MGS4 ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid4GunsOfThePatriots'' his nanomachines had been upgraded to G3, basically making him recover from a headshot on the same spot in like what? a few minutes]] but at the same time his body clearly cant handle the speed in which he heals, hence his vampiric look, and maybe explains the weird bendy crap he does, he isnt dancing or just trying to be freaky, his joints are literally screwed to the point he can barely stand up and move properly!



*** Question asker here, part of my gripe was explained away in the MGS4 Database that I read after asking, it says he uses some of the devices he has on him to send data that mimics the way SOP works and he is sending it via that system, but he is so inept compared to his team mates because he has to send the data manually instead of automatically, same with receiving. Also I don't think he's a creator's pet, otherwise he would have handled the whole army alone instead of with Meryl. The sudden increase in skill is due to SOP being down, and so he doesn't have to send data anymore and can fully focus on combat, plus he and Meryl only had to hold off enemies from one entrance since Snake was advancing past them and enemies were just pouring in from where Snake first entered, plus he and Meryl do get shot up pretty bad during the fight. But yes, you've kinda further explained my point: While SOP is active, he constantly fucks up and craps himself. The Database explained how they didn't notice missing data, because it wasn't actually missing, just piss poor compared to SOP due to manual input. And I have more faith in Kojima than for it to be bad writing because all of those fuckups and his bowel problems were foreshadowing for the reveal that he isn't using nanomachines. It's just that you'd figure that as pissed off as his team mates get, especially Meryl, they'd question why he's so behind in combat and other things. Thank you for giving me another way of looking at it though.

to:

*** Question asker here, part of my gripe was explained away in the MGS4 ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid4GunsOfThePatriots'' Database that I read after asking, it says he uses some of the devices he has on him to send data that mimics the way SOP works and he is sending it via that system, but he is so inept compared to his team mates because he has to send the data manually instead of automatically, same with receiving. Also I don't think he's a creator's pet, otherwise he would have handled the whole army alone instead of with Meryl. The sudden increase in skill is due to SOP being down, and so he doesn't have to send data anymore and can fully focus on combat, plus he and Meryl only had to hold off enemies from one entrance since Snake was advancing past them and enemies were just pouring in from where Snake first entered, plus he and Meryl do get shot up pretty bad during the fight. But yes, you've kinda further explained my point: While SOP is active, he constantly fucks up and craps himself. The Database explained how they didn't notice missing data, because it wasn't actually missing, just piss poor compared to SOP due to manual input. And I have more faith in Kojima than for it to be bad writing because all of those fuckups and his bowel problems were foreshadowing for the reveal that he isn't using nanomachines. It's just that you'd figure that as pissed off as his team mates get, especially Meryl, they'd question why he's so behind in combat and other things. Thank you for giving me another way of looking at it though.
2nd Sep '17 11:01:51 AM HalcyonDayz
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** My person theory about Vamps' regeneration is this: he was born naturally with enough healing ability to survive what happened to him when he was a kid, then when he got recruited for dead cell [[spoiler: they gave him experimental G1-2 nanomachines, which increased his abilities to the point they were in MGS2, it made him super durable, but not so durable that headshots wouldn't put him down for a good while, long enough to cause scarfication, then by the point of MGS4 his nanomachines had been upgraded to G3, basically making him recover from a headshot on the same spot in like what? a few minutes]] but at the same time his body clearly cant handle the speed in which he heals, hence his vampiric look, and maybe explains the weird bendy crap he does, he isnt dancing or just trying to be freaky, his joints are literally screwed to the point he can barely stand up and move properly!

to:

** My person theory about Vamps' regeneration is this: he was born naturally with enough healing ability to survive what happened to him when he was a kid, then when he got recruited for dead cell [[spoiler: they gave him experimental G1-2 nanomachines, which increased his abilities to the point they were in MGS2, ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'', it made him super durable, but not so durable that headshots wouldn't put him down for a good while, long enough to cause scarfication, then by the point of MGS4 his nanomachines had been upgraded to G3, basically making him recover from a headshot on the same spot in like what? a few minutes]] but at the same time his body clearly cant handle the speed in which he heals, hence his vampiric look, and maybe explains the weird bendy crap he does, he isnt dancing or just trying to be freaky, his joints are literally screwed to the point he can barely stand up and move properly!



* One the MGS2 flashbacks features [[spoiler: the Patriots's codec conversation with Raiden prior to his battle with Solidus]]. Snake never witnessed this, so why is it one of his flashbacks?

to:

* One the MGS2 ''VideoGame/MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty'' flashbacks features [[spoiler: the Patriots's codec conversation with Raiden prior to his battle with Solidus]]. Snake never witnessed this, so why is it one of his flashbacks?
16th Jul '17 10:50:00 AM nombretomado
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** My response, with basis in real life is, who says the NFL is still around in running condition? The draft should still be in effect, and the only reason people haven't been drafted into the US military since Vietnam is due to the Selective Service System where all men ages 18-25 have to be in the system in case the government decides to reinstate the draft as it would be necessary. I don't know if you are pulled out of the system upon reaching the age of 26 after you register, but that may not be the case. So who decides if a draft is necessary in the MGS universe? The Patriots. Thus all those men get drafted, maybe a few more join up or were in the reserve. The basis in real life? The NFL 1943 season brought us the "Steagles" team, made up of the players of the Steelers and Eagles that weren't drafted during WW2 because separately they didn't have enough players for a team. It could be the same here, the New England Patriots might end up short in players due to all the young and fit men being at war, so if they joined with another team they'd not be the New England Patriots anymore, but an amalgamation of that name and the name of another. Or all teams put together no longer have enough players to make up two full teams to compete against each other, so what'd be the point of a football season? No NFL, no New England Patriots. No New England Patriots, no need for them to function under the censorship.

to:

** My response, with basis in real life is, who says the NFL is still around in running condition? The draft should still be in effect, and the only reason people haven't been drafted into the US military since Vietnam is due to the Selective Service System where all men ages 18-25 have to be in the system in case the government decides to reinstate the draft as it would be necessary. I don't know if you are pulled out of the system upon reaching the age of 26 after you register, but that may not be the case. So who decides if a draft is necessary in the MGS universe? The Patriots. Thus all those men get drafted, maybe a few more join up or were in the reserve. The basis in real life? The NFL 1943 season brought us the "Steagles" team, made up of the players of the Steelers and Eagles that weren't drafted during WW2 [=WW2=] because separately they didn't have enough players for a team. It could be the same here, the New England Patriots might end up short in players due to all the young and fit men being at war, so if they joined with another team they'd not be the New England Patriots anymore, but an amalgamation of that name and the name of another. Or all teams put together no longer have enough players to make up two full teams to compete against each other, so what'd be the point of a football season? No NFL, no New England Patriots. No New England Patriots, no need for them to function under the censorship.
1st Feb '17 12:26:38 AM PandaXclone2
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Now that all being said, I ''think'' I may know the why the syringes seem to do different things. In both cases, Vamp and Naomi are in mortal danger (lethal wounds/cancer), suggesting that what's in the syringes doesn't combat physical trauma but rather psychological trauma. I assume that a side-effect of the injection is that the nanomachines detect a high amount of the drug, which shuts them down until the body is below the safe-zone percentage. Normally characters only inject when the nanomachines are either off or about to be shut off, just to stave them off of insanity. This is why Vamp and Naomi die as a result since their nanomachines are attempting to keep them alive, only to be paused.

to:

Now that all being said, I ''think'' I may know the why the syringes seem to do different things. In both cases, Vamp and Naomi are in mortal danger (lethal wounds/cancer), suggesting that what's in the syringes doesn't combat physical trauma but rather psychological trauma. I assume that a side-effect of the injection is that the nanomachines detect a high amount of the drug, which shuts them down until the body is below the safe-zone percentage. Normally characters only inject when the nanomachines are either off or about to be shut off, just to stave them off of insanity. This is why Vamp and Naomi die as a result since their nanomachines are attempting to keep them alive, only to be paused.
1st Feb '17 12:19:39 AM PandaXclone2
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*** OP here and of course, however the big problem with overdose is how Vamp or pretty much anyone else reacts to it; even if Naomi could have overdosed on it, presumably more of the stuff the nanomachines provide would've been actively working ''against'' her cancer, not accelerating it. Assuming life-threatening conditions don't play a part in the over dosage, plenty of people seen injecting syringes in the game should be by all rights dead, ''especially'' Snake and Liquid Ocelot in the finale who each inject 2 and a half doses of the syringes.

to:

*** OP here and of course, however the big problem with overdose is how Vamp or pretty much anyone else reacts to it; even if Naomi could have overdosed on it, presumably more of the stuff the nanomachines provide would've been actively working ''against'' her cancer, not accelerating it. Assuming life-threatening conditions don't play a part in the over dosage, plenty of people seen injecting syringes in the game should be by all rights dead, ''especially'' Snake and Liquid Ocelot in the finale who each inject 2 and a half doses of the syringes.\\
\\
Now that all being said, I ''think'' I may know the why the syringes seem to do different things. In both cases, Vamp and Naomi are in mortal danger (lethal wounds/cancer), suggesting that what's in the syringes doesn't combat physical trauma but rather psychological trauma. I assume that a side-effect of the injection is that the nanomachines detect a high amount of the drug, which shuts them down until the body is below the safe-zone percentage. Normally characters only inject when the nanomachines are either off or about to be shut off, just to stave them off of insanity. This is why Vamp and Naomi die as a result since their nanomachines are attempting to keep them alive, only to be paused.
1st Feb '17 12:06:25 AM PandaXclone2
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*** OP here and of course, however the big problem with overdose is how Vamp or pretty much anyone else reacts to it; Naomi could have overdosed on it but presumably more of the stuff the nanomachines provide would've been actively working ''against'' her cancer, not accelerating it. Assuming life-threatening conditions don't play a part in the over dosage, plenty of people seen injecting syringes in the game should be by all rights dead.

to:

*** OP here and of course, however the big problem with overdose is how Vamp or pretty much anyone else reacts to it; even if Naomi could have overdosed on it but it, presumably more of the stuff the nanomachines provide would've been actively working ''against'' her cancer, not accelerating it. Assuming life-threatening conditions don't play a part in the over dosage, plenty of people seen injecting syringes in the game should be by all rights dead.dead, ''especially'' Snake and Liquid Ocelot in the finale who each inject 2 and a half doses of the syringes.
1st Feb '17 12:02:50 AM PandaXclone2
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Added DiffLines:

*** OP here and of course, however the big problem with overdose is how Vamp or pretty much anyone else reacts to it; Naomi could have overdosed on it but presumably more of the stuff the nanomachines provide would've been actively working ''against'' her cancer, not accelerating it. Assuming life-threatening conditions don't play a part in the over dosage, plenty of people seen injecting syringes in the game should be by all rights dead.
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