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History Headscratchers / LockeAndKey2020

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* After Rufus called the paramedics for the dying Gordie Shaw, which one did he hide in another room—the unconscious original or the visible astrally projected double (also losing consciousness)? If it was the double, it seems as if the paramedics would have noticed the key in the original's neck, asked some pointed questions, and most likely taken it out while working on the original, trapping several people inside Gordie's head as he died. But if it was the original, the paramedics would have been working on the double; shouldn't the double have vanished out of their vehicle when the original died, leaving them with a baffling mystery embedded in official logs? Either way, that seems like a substantial PlotHole.

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* After Rufus called the paramedics for the dying Gordie Shaw, which one did he hide in another room—the unconscious original or the visible astrally projected double (also losing consciousness)? If it was the double, it seems as if the paramedics would have noticed the key in the original's neck, asked some pointed questions, and most likely taken it out while working on the original, trapping several people inside Gordie's head as he died. But if it was the original, the paramedics would have been working on the double; shouldn't the double have vanished out of their vehicle when the original died, leaving them with a baffling mystery embedded in official logs? Either way, that seems like a substantial PlotHole. (I'm not calling it FridgeLogic because I was wondering about it right from when the paramedics showed up . . .)
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* After Rufus called the paramedics for the dying Gordie Shaw, which one did he hide in another room - the unconscious original or the visible astrally projected double (also losing consciousness)? If it was the double, it seems as if the paramedics would have noticed the key in the original's neck, asked some pointed questions, and most likely taken it out while working on the original, trapping several people inside Gordie's head as he died. But if it was the original, the paramedics would have been working on the double; shouldn't the double have vanished out of their vehicle when the original died, leaving them with a baffling mystery embedded in official logs? Either way, that seems like a substantial Plot Hole.

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* After Rufus called the paramedics for the dying Gordie Shaw, which one did he hide in another room - the room—the unconscious original or the visible astrally projected double (also losing consciousness)? If it was the double, it seems as if the paramedics would have noticed the key in the original's neck, asked some pointed questions, and most likely taken it out while working on the original, trapping several people inside Gordie's head as he died. But if it was the original, the paramedics would have been working on the double; shouldn't the double have vanished out of their vehicle when the original died, leaving them with a baffling mystery embedded in official logs? Either way, that seems like a substantial Plot Hole.PlotHole.
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* Why was ''Mark'' the one member of the Keepers who was entrusted with hiding the damn keys? Why not Rendell? Also, why retain any memory of the keys' locations at all? These people have already removed memories from Duncan and Gordie for ''much'' less important reasons, so why not simply remove the memories of the Keys and avoid having to perform the fiery HeroicSuicide?

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* Why was ''Mark'' the one member of the Keepers who was entrusted with hiding the damn keys? Why not Rendell? Also, why retain any memory of the keys' locations at all? These people have already removed memories from Duncan and Gordie for ''much'' less important reasons, so why not simply remove the memories of the Keys and avoid having to perform the fiery HeroicSuicide?HeroicSuicide?

* After Rufus called the paramedics for the dying Gordie Shaw, which one did he hide in another room - the unconscious original or the visible astrally projected double (also losing consciousness)? If it was the double, it seems as if the paramedics would have noticed the key in the original's neck, asked some pointed questions, and most likely taken it out while working on the original, trapping several people inside Gordie's head as he died. But if it was the original, the paramedics would have been working on the double; shouldn't the double have vanished out of their vehicle when the original died, leaving them with a baffling mystery embedded in official logs? Either way, that seems like a substantial Plot Hole.
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* Why was ''Mark'' the one member of the Keys who was entrusted with hiding the damn things? Why not Rendell?

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* Why was ''Mark'' the one member of the Keys Keepers who was entrusted with hiding the damn things? keys? Why not Rendell?Rendell? Also, why retain any memory of the keys' locations at all? These people have already removed memories from Duncan and Gordie for ''much'' less important reasons, so why not simply remove the memories of the Keys and avoid having to perform the fiery HeroicSuicide?
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** Also, I hate to speculate, but neither of the two men ever cotton on to the fact that the Anywhere Key is limited to places that he's already seen - meaning that they'd be able to avoid Gideon's wrath simply by taking the first bus out of Matheson... so it might just be due to them not being terribly bright.

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** Also, I hate to speculate, but neither of the two men ever cotton on to the fact that the Anywhere Key is limited to travelling to places that he's the wielder already seen - meaning that they'd be able to avoid Gideon's wrath simply by taking the first bus out of Matheson... so it might just be due to them not being terribly bright.

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*** Given that it doesn't open until the cave-in starts, we can discount Josh's magical powers of opening. In which case, why the hell did Dodge bother looking for the Omega Key if all they needed to do was to take out the roof?



** Fear, most likely. One of the first things Gideon does after resurrecting them is explaining how Echo's work and threatening to throw them back into the wellhouse if they disobey him, which would kill them. And Gideon could easily do that with the SuperStrength he gained from being possessed by a demon. Also, considering the kind of person Gideon was before he got possessed, his soldiers may have already been afraid of him. It's also possible that they [[JustFollowingOrders just follow Gideon's orders because he's their captain]].

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** Fear, most likely. One of the first things Gideon does after resurrecting them is explaining how Echo's work and threatening to throw them back into the wellhouse if they disobey him, which would kill them. And Gideon could easily do that with the SuperStrength he gained from being possessed by a demon. Also, considering the kind of person Gideon was before he got possessed, his soldiers may have already been afraid of him. It's also possible that they [[JustFollowingOrders just follow Gideon's orders because he's their captain]].captain]].
** Also, I hate to speculate, but neither of the two men ever cotton on to the fact that the Anywhere Key is limited to places that he's already seen - meaning that they'd be able to avoid Gideon's wrath simply by taking the first bus out of Matheson... so it might just be due to them not being terribly bright.

* Why was ''Mark'' the one member of the Keys who was entrusted with hiding the damn things? Why not Rendell?
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** Fear, most likely. One of the first things Gideon does after resurrecting them is explaining how Echo's work and threatening to throw them back into the wellhouse if they disobey him, which would kill them. And Gideon could easily do that with the SuperStrength he gained from being possessed by a demon.

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** Fear, most likely. One of the first things Gideon does after resurrecting them is explaining how Echo's work and threatening to throw them back into the wellhouse if they disobey him, which would kill them. And Gideon could easily do that with the SuperStrength he gained from being possessed by a demon. Also, considering the kind of person Gideon was before he got possessed, his soldiers may have already been afraid of him. It's also possible that they [[JustFollowingOrders just follow Gideon's orders because he's their captain]].
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** Fear, most likely. One of the first things Gideon does after resurrecting them is explaining how Echo's work and threatening to throw them back into the wellhouse if they disobey him, which would kill them.

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** Fear, most likely. One of the first things Gideon does after resurrecting them is explaining how Echo's work and threatening to throw them back into the wellhouse if they disobey him, which would kill them. And Gideon could easily do that with the SuperStrength he gained from being possessed by a demon.
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* What motivates Gideon's men to be evil? Gideon is sociopathic, but it seems unlikely that two of his random soldiers who seem more like the PunchClockVillain variety, would share in his sociopathy.

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* What motivates Gideon's men to be evil? Gideon is sociopathic, but it seems unlikely that two of his random soldiers who seem more like the PunchClockVillain variety, would share in his sociopathy.sociopathy.
** Fear, most likely. One of the first things Gideon does after resurrecting them is explaining how Echo's work and threatening to throw them back into the wellhouse if they disobey him, which would kill them.
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* What motivates Gideon's men to be evil? Gideon is sociopathic, but it seems unlikely that two of his random soldiers who seem more like PunchcardVillains, would share in his sociopathy.

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* What motivates Gideon's men to be evil? Gideon is sociopathic, but it seems unlikely that two of his random soldiers who seem more like PunchcardVillains, the PunchClockVillain variety, would share in his sociopathy.
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** In regards to Sam, the final confrontation is based on an incident that - in the comics - happens before anyone gets their hands on the music box key ''and'' before Dodge is released from the wellhouse, so only Bode knows about the Keys. As for why the music box was never used against Dodge, in the original comics, it's one of the keys that Dodge is able to acquire and use against the Lockes. For now, I'm afraid the Watsonian explanation is that "because [[IdiotHero the Lockes are really stupid]]", a fact that season 3 goes on to prove on numerous occasions; it's only slightly less depressing than the Doylist explanation: "because the writers had no idea what they were doing."

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** In regards to Sam, the final confrontation is based on an incident that - in the comics - happens before anyone gets their hands on the music box key ''and'' before Dodge is released from the wellhouse, so only Bode knows about the Keys. As for why the music box was never used against Dodge, in the original comics, it's one of the keys that Dodge is able to acquire and use against the Lockes. For now, I'm afraid the Watsonian explanation is that "because [[IdiotHero the Lockes are really stupid]]", a fact that season 3 goes on to prove on numerous occasions; it's only slightly less depressing than the Doylist explanation: "because the writers had no idea what they were doing.""
* What motivates Gideon's men to be evil? Gideon is sociopathic, but it seems unlikely that two of his random soldiers who seem more like PunchcardVillains, would share in his sociopathy.
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* What happened to the music box key in S1? Why didn't they use it on Sam and Dodge?

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* What happened to the music box key in S1? Why didn't they use it on Sam and Dodge?Dodge?
** In regards to Sam, the final confrontation is based on an incident that - in the comics - happens before anyone gets their hands on the music box key ''and'' before Dodge is released from the wellhouse, so only Bode knows about the Keys. As for why the music box was never used against Dodge, in the original comics, it's one of the keys that Dodge is able to acquire and use against the Lockes. For now, I'm afraid the Watsonian explanation is that "because [[IdiotHero the Lockes are really stupid]]", a fact that season 3 goes on to prove on numerous occasions; it's only slightly less depressing than the Doylist explanation: "because the writers had no idea what they were doing."
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*** maybe. It was implied it opened for Gideon because of how evil he is. Josh doesn't seem evil, just manipulative, unless maybe he is evil. But the door was locked with the Omega Key. It shouldn't have been possible.

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*** maybe. It was implied it opened for Gideon because of how evil he is. Josh doesn't seem evil, just manipulative, unless maybe he is evil. But the door was locked with the Omega Key. It shouldn't have been possible.possible.

* What happened to the music box key in S1? Why didn't they use it on Sam and Dodge?
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*** The door is shown opening when Josh escapes. Presumably it opened for him because he's a descendant of Gideon, the soldier that opened the portal initially.

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*** The door is shown opening when Josh escapes. Presumably it opened for him because he's a descendant of Gideon, the soldier that opened the portal initially.initially.
*** maybe. It was implied it opened for Gideon because of how evil he is. Josh doesn't seem evil, just manipulative, unless maybe he is evil. But the door was locked with the Omega Key. It shouldn't have been possible.
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*** The door is shown opening when Josh escapes. Presumably it opened for him because he's a descendant of the soldier that opened the portal initially.

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*** The door is shown opening when Josh escapes. Presumably it opened for him because he's a descendant of Gideon, the soldier that opened the portal initially.
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** How did the door open in the first place if it was locked? A cave quake should not have been able to do that.

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** How did the door open in the first place if it was locked? A cave quake should not have been able to do that.that.
***The door is shown opening when Josh escapes. Presumably it opened for him because he's a descendant of the soldier that opened the portal initially.
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*** Except we see her before she's met Kinsey, talking to Jackie in the hall; at best, Eden's being pretty callous when talking about someone whose family tragedy is common knowledge, and her falling-out with the Savinis is ''because'' she's being dismissive and demanding, which is apparently typical for her, given their reactions during the shoot. Jackie might just have been spared Eden's worst because they're friends.

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*** Except we see her before she's met Kinsey, talking to Jackie in the hall; at best, Eden's being pretty callous when talking about someone whose family tragedy is common knowledge, and her falling-out with the Savinis is ''because'' she's being dismissive and demanding, which is apparently typical for her, given their reactions during the shoot. Jackie might just have been spared Eden's worst because they're friends.
friends; she's also been friends with Eden for a while, so she knows that Eden has a good side, while she's met Tyler and the others only recently.
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*** Also, if the kids did try to tell people, no adult would believe (and might be literally incapable of believing) their story due to the magic involved. Dodge knows this and has no reaosn to fear investigation anyway due to the combination of Anywhere Key and Identity Key.

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*** Also, if the kids did try to tell people, no adult would believe (and might be literally incapable of believing) their story due to the magic involved. Dodge knows this and has no reaosn reason to fear investigation anyway due to the combination of Anywhere Key and Identity Key.




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*** Except we see her before she's met Kinsey, talking to Jackie in the hall; at best, Eden's being pretty callous when talking about someone whose family tragedy is common knowledge, and her falling-out with the Savinis is ''because'' she's being dismissive and demanding, which is apparently typical for her, given their reactions during the shoot. Jackie might just have been spared Eden's worst because they're friends.
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** It seems like Eden isn't always like that, with her AlphaBitch side flaring up against Kinsey and Scot because of her fallout with the Savini Squad.

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** It seems like Eden isn't always like that, with her AlphaBitch side flaring up against Kinsey and Scot because of her fallout with the Savini Squad.Squad.

* Ellie Whedon somehow reappears from beyond the Omega Door, during a near cave in. This brings up several questions:
** How did Ellie return? She was tossed into a demonic dimension with weird physics. How could a normal person return from that?
** Why was she not possessed by a demon during her time there?
** How did the door open in the first place if it was locked? A cave quake should not have been able to do that.
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*** Season 2 confirms that the rule only applies to demons.
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** The Lockes' grief over their father's death would probably count as a proverbial "void" in their heart, which would then let any of them hear Dodge's voice. The drawing of the Wellhouse is probably just a convenient channel for her voice since the well is where she was born.

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** The Lockes' grief over their father's death would probably count as a proverbial "void" in their heart, which would then let any of them hear Dodge's voice. The drawing of the Wellhouse is probably just a convenient channel for her their voice since the well is where she was they were born.
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** The Lockes' grief over their father's death would probably count as a proverbial "void" in their heart, which would then let any of them hear Dodge's voice. The drawing of the Wellhouse is probably just a convenient channel for her voice since the well is where she was born.




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** He was in shock and didn't fully understand what was happening. In the seconds it took for him to register that Dodge was actually trying to kill him, it was already too late. Plus, Dodge has practically superhuman strength - the guy wouldn't have been been able to escape at that point anyway.




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*** Also, if the kids did try to tell people, no adult would believe (and might be literally incapable of believing) their story due to the magic involved. Dodge knows this and has no reaosn to fear investigation anyway due to the combination of Anywhere Key and Identity Key.
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** In another instance, Bode smugly tells Sam about the keys' loyalty only for Sam to grab it straight out of his hand, and it's [[PlayedForLaughs Played for Laughs]], so at the least the creators are aware of this, and likely it's just meant to be shrugged off as the rules only applying to Dodge and other supernatural.

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* If Jackie is so protective of who she lets in close and only want sincere people, why is her best friend a bully like Eden? Does she know that her best friend is mean to others?

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* If Jackie is so protective of who she lets in close and only want sincere people, why is her best friend a bully like Eden? Does she know that her best friend is mean to others?others?
** It seems like Eden isn't always like that, with her AlphaBitch side flaring up against Kinsey and Scot because of her fallout with the Savini Squad.

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** 1) Probably doesn't care that there is any witness. Aside from the fact that Dodge and Lucas are the same person, nothing they do say they're trying to be low key (killing a man, stealing jewelry, etc.). The worst that could come from this is that the Locke kids could know where they were but still couldn't do anything about it especially with the Anywhere key still in hand.
** 2) Still bound by the fact that it's just opening a door. Unless there's a closer door to the track that's all they got.
** 3) Probably also don't care, they're out of there either way. That the kid actually got killed is just a bonus fun. (Storytelling wise, I'd say it's a way to say that she's totally evil and don't expect some HeelFaceTurn for her just cause you like the actress)
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* The keys are "loyal" to the Lockes and Dodge can't take them without permission. Dodge is able to take the keys from Sam because he is not a Locke and does not follow the same rules. If they keys are loyal to the Lockes, how is Sam able to take the Anywhere Key from Tyler? Or was it established only echoes can't take keys? Yes Tyler was incapacitated but the same rule should follow, as permission was not given.

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* The keys are "loyal" to the Lockes and Dodge can't take them without permission. Dodge is able to take the keys from Sam because he is not a Locke and does not follow the same rules. If they keys are loyal to the Lockes, how is Sam able to take the Anywhere Key from Tyler? Or was it established only echoes can't take keys? Yes Tyler was incapacitated but the same rule should follow, as permission was not given.given.

* When Dodge strangles the random guy in episode 2, why doesn't he kick her with his legs. He still has those appendages free?

* The train scene: So many things wrong with this. Why would Dodge kill the kid in front of his two friends and leave witnesses? Why did she have the train so far away? What if he rolled over and didn't get to the train?

* If Jackie is so protective of who she lets in close and only want sincere people, why is her best friend a bully like Eden? Does she know that her best friend is mean to others?
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** In the comics Dodge mentions that echoes can communicate through empty spaces, including people's souls, which is why they can communicate with Sam.

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** In the comics Dodge mentions that echoes can communicate through empty spaces, including people's souls, which is why they can communicate with Sam.Sam.
** That could explain Sam then but what about Bode?

* The keys are "loyal" to the Lockes and Dodge can't take them without permission. Dodge is able to take the keys from Sam because he is not a Locke and does not follow the same rules. If they keys are loyal to the Lockes, how is Sam able to take the Anywhere Key from Tyler? Or was it established only echoes can't take keys? Yes Tyler was incapacitated but the same rule should follow, as permission was not given.
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** I think it was just meant to be an It reference.

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** I think it was just meant to be an It reference.reference.

** In the comics Dodge mentions that echoes can communicate through empty spaces, including people's souls, which is why they can communicate with Sam.
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* How was Dodge able to communicate to Sam and Bode through a picture of the Wellhouse? Even the original comic did not fully address that.

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* How was Dodge able to communicate to Sam and Bode through a picture of the Wellhouse? Even the original comic did not fully address that.that.

** I think it was just meant to be an It reference.
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* How was Dodge able to communicate to Sam and Bode through a picture of the Wellhouse? Even the original comic did not fully address that.

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