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*** I think that's the key to it. The stories where the fruit's dangerous usually have a rather obvious antagonist offering the fruit: Hades himself, the snake, a creepy old woman and so on. Hoggle seemed to have proven himself as a loyal friend, so he wasn't on her GenreSavvy radar the way Jareth himself showing up with a peach would have been. The situation's more akin to one the seven dwarves giving Snow White an apple, or Hermes offering Persephone a pomegranate in the midst of their escape. It's a cruel twist in the usual fairy tale motif that would've only been obvious if she knew that Hoggle was on Jareth's side.
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***** But the oubliette was a separate choice: she chose down. Had she chosen up, she presumably would have been on the right path. And as said, even the oubliette did eventually lead her safely to the center.
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*** I never thought of it that way before, but in light of all of the above, there ''is'' a famous fantasy story that gives us an example of how the female version of Jareth would play out: Jadis the White Queen and how she tries to seduce Edmund in ''TheLionTheWitchAndTheWardrobe''. That's one way to look at both stories: replace surly young Edmund with flighty young Sarah, swap beautiful, dangerous sorceress-queen Jadis with handsome, dangerous goblin-king Jareth, focus the plot on just the two of them, and you end up with much the same coming-of-age story of a young person going to a fantasy world and being tempted by an evil ruler who they ultimately reject to save their family.
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*** I never thought of it that way before, but in light of all of the above, there ''is'' a famous fantasy story that gives us an example of how the female version of Jareth would play out: Jadis the White Queen and how she tries to seduce Edmund in ''TheLionTheWitchAndTheWardrobe''. That's one way to look at both stories: replace surly young Edmund with flighty young Sarah, swap beautiful, dangerous sorceress-queen witch-queen Jadis with handsome, dangerous goblin-king Jareth, focus the plot on just the two of them, and you end up with much the same coming-of-age story of a young person going to a fantasy world and being tempted by an evil ruler who they ultimately reject to save their family.
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*** I never thought of it that way before, but in light of all of the above, there ''is'' a famous fantasy story that gives us an example of how the female version of Jareth would play out: Jadis the White Queen and how she tries to seduce Edmund in ''TheLionTheWitchAndTheWardrobe''. That's one way to look at both stories: replace surly young Edmund with flighty young Sarah, swap beautiful, dangerous sorceress-queen Jadis with handsome, dangerous goblin-king Jareth, focus the plot just on the two of them, and you end up with much the same coming-of-age story of a young person going to a fantasy world and being tempted by an evil ruler who they ultimately reject to save their family.
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*** I never thought of it that way before, but in light of all of the above, there ''is'' a famous fantasy story that gives us an example of how the female version of Jareth would play out: Jadis the White Queen and how she tries to seduce Edmund in ''TheLionTheWitchAndTheWardrobe''. That's one way to look at both stories: replace surly young Edmund with flighty young Sarah, swap beautiful, dangerous sorceress-queen Jadis with handsome, dangerous goblin-king Jareth, focus the plot on just on the two of them, and you end up with much the same coming-of-age story of a young person going to a fantasy world and being tempted by an evil ruler who they ultimately reject to save their family.
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*** I never thought of it that way before, but in light of all of the above, there ''is'' a famous fantasy story that gives us an example of how the female version of Jareth would play out: Jadis the White Queen and how she tries to seduce Edmund in ''TheLionTheWitchAndTheWardrobe''. That's one way to look at both stories: replace surly young Edmund with flighty young Sarah, swap beautiful, dangerous sorceress-queen Jadis with handsome, dangerous goblin-king Jareth, focus the plot just on the two of them, and you end up with much the same coming-of-age story of a young person going to a fantasy world and being tempted by an evil ruler who they ultimately reject to save their family.
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Removing misuse of Understatement.
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** This is kind of a silly question since the entire point of hair metal singers was that they were able to draw a crowd of ridiculously turned on female fans groupies etc. Also, since Bowie is on the short list of rock greats alongside Jagger and Richards, I'd say ''garden variety'' is [[{{Understatement}} a bit of a misnomer.]]
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** This is kind of a silly question since the entire point of hair metal singers was that they were able to draw a crowd of ridiculously turned on female fans groupies etc. Also, since Bowie is on the short list of rock greats alongside Jagger and Richards, I'd say ''garden variety'' is [[{{Understatement}} a bit of a misnomer.]]
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* Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. I saw the books in your room. HansChristianAndersen, [[TheBrothersGrimm Grimm]], [[TheWonderfulWizardOfOz Oz]], you obviously know your fairy tales and myths very well. And YET, you, when transported into a magical realm, given a fruit by someone who has admittedly been working for your enemy and whose honesty is suspect, without hesitation bite into it, not thinking it might, I don't know, cause you to never be able to leave, invalidate your claim to Toby, poison you, something like that? Why not make it a [[GreekMythology pomegranate and complete the bloody metaphor]]. Really, you should not be this GenreBlind when it's obvious you've studied the genre you're somehow fallen into a story of.
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* Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. I saw the books in your room. HansChristianAndersen, [[TheBrothersGrimm Grimm]], [[TheWonderfulWizardOfOz [[Literature/TheWonderfulWizardOfOz Oz]], you obviously know your fairy tales and myths very well. And YET, you, when transported into a magical realm, given a fruit by someone who has admittedly been working for your enemy and whose honesty is suspect, without hesitation bite into it, not thinking it might, I don't know, cause you to never be able to leave, invalidate your claim to Toby, poison you, something like that? Why not make it a [[GreekMythology pomegranate and complete the bloody metaphor]]. Really, you should not be this GenreBlind when it's obvious you've studied the genre you're somehow fallen into a story of.
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** Why does anyone find anyone attractive? There's no accounting for taste.
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** At this point in the movie, Hoggle had recently saved her from the Firies. Sarah had no way of knowing that Jareth had accosted him privately to threaten him, so she would either assume he was trustworthy, or that he had been working for Jareth all along (in which case why save her?).
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David Bowie\'s freaking crotch.
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** I just saw it few days ago and noticed that during the costume changes his tights get tighter and tighter. Watch it yourself if you don't believe me. In the beginning his buldge is barely noticeable, to my dismay. But then in that white flowy outfit at the end.. My god.. And yes I was looking at it the whole time, even when I saw it the first time, I had to be about 10. Pretty sure that movie is solely responsible for my current adult-hood obsession with those damn dangly things all you men have.
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***[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze_solving_algorithm#Tr.C3.A9maux.27s_algorithm Trémaux's algorithm]]
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** It may be fairy-tale logic at work: the ExactWords are that if you dip even a small part of yourself in the Bog, it will stink. Touching rocks that are damp from the Bog doesn't count as dipping any part of yourself into the Bog, thus, no eternal stink.
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* Okay, so putting even one foot in the Bog of Eternal Stench is enough to stink, yet it's okay to walk across rocks that are wet from the bog?
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** Or, Jareth thought for sure she'd become a junk lady and never leave the dump after she broke free of the crystal, going with the theory that all the junk ladies were once human and they were trying to turn her into one of them.
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** Or, Jareth thought for sure she'd become a junk lady and never leave the dump after she broke free of the crystal, going with the theory that all the junk ladies were once human and they were trying to turn her into one of them. So when he heard she'd actually resisted him, it came as a shock.
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** Or, Jareth thought for sure she'd become a junk lady and never leave the dump after she broke free of the crystal, going with the theory that all the junk ladies were once human and they were trying to turn her into one of them.
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** Well, if you remember, Jareth had sent out the crystal bubbles; perhaps they were sent out to capture her once the peach incapacitated her. So who is to say she wasn't magically transported into the crystal while she dreamed? Also, if you watch the following scene where the goblin soldier comes in to tell Jareth that Sarah was entering the Goblin City, Jareth didn't really seem to know what was going on. I think he had been confident that the peach would knock her out for the rest of her time there. He seemed rather surprised about the whole thing.
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*** Even if it's not a dream, Jareth could figure that only people who wouldn't ask the worm follow-up questions or explain to him that the goal IS to get to the castle are the kind of people who would need to get through the labyrinth in the first place, and he wants to savor the delicious irony.
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**** The wrong door was supposed to lead to *certain* death. The right door was supposed to lead to the center of the labyrinth. Sarah certainly didn't die, and she did eventually make it to the center.
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* This is a JBM mixed with [FridgeHorror Fridge Horror]. Is it possible that the masquerade scene wasn’t just a dream? Jareth was there, and the masks everyone wore resembled goblins. What if that peach transported her to the castle/allowed Jareth to do it easily, as well as making her perceive everything wrong? What she thought was a ball full of masked humans was really just a room full of goblins laughing at her as she stumbled about and danced with the King. It all sounds completely nuts till you realize when she woke up she fell out of the sky. Now why would she need to be transported, especially in a direction that took her closer to the castle...
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* This is a JBM mixed with [FridgeHorror [[FridgeHorror Fridge Horror].Horror]]. Is it possible that the masquerade scene wasn’t just a dream? Jareth was there, and the masks everyone wore resembled goblins. What if that peach transported her to the castle/allowed Jareth to do it easily, as well as making her perceive everything wrong? What she thought was a ball full of masked humans was really just a room full of goblins laughing at her as she stumbled about and danced with the King. It all sounds completely nuts till you realize when she woke up she fell out of the sky. Now why would she need to be transported, especially in a direction that took her closer to the castle...
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* This is a JBM mixed with [FridgeHorror Fridge Horror]. Is it possible that the masquerade scene wasn’t just a dream? Jareth was there, and the masks everyone wore resembled goblins. What if that peach transported her to the castle/allowed Jareth to do it easily, as well as making her perceive everything wrong? What she thought was a ball full of masked humans was really just a room full of goblins laughing at her as she stumbled about and danced with the King. It all sounds completely nuts till you realize when she woke up she fell out of the sky. Now why would she need to be transported, especially in a direction that took her closer to the castle...
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**** Maybe. I've seen her door choice argued both ways ... after all, if not for Hoggle she would have likely died/been trapped (until 'rescued' by Jareth)in the Oubliette.
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**** Maybe. I've seen her door choice argued both ways ... after all, if not for Hoggle she would have likely died/been trapped (until 'rescued' by Jareth)in Jareth) in the Oubliette.
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** I always guessed that because I'm a male and straight I just never gave Jareth's tights any thought, because I didn't until I watched NostalgiaChick's review. I do kind of find it irritating that people regard that as the most memorable part of the movie. And that it's a movie only girls should be into for that matter.
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** Listen to Sarah when she's explaining her solution to the guard: If the red guard is lying, then the blue one is telling the truth; but if the blue guard is lying, then the red one is telling the truth. It's called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox liar paradox]], and if the answer seems like one big contradiction, [[FridgeBrilliance you've got it]].
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**** But even if she goes with my solution, she still only ''needs'' one question; she would automatically know whether the guard she chooses is a liar or not based on what answer he gives, so there's no need to bother asking the other one. Anyway, if she's only limited to one question, period, then what's the point? Unless she has the gift of second sight, then she's forced to waste her question trying to solve the puzzle, no matter what question she ultimately asks, and then she's stuck; she's solved the puzzle, but since she's now forbidden from asking any more questions, she's just as stuck as she was before and the whole exercise is a massive waste of time.
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**** But even if she goes with my solution, she still only ''needs'' one question; she would automatically know whether the guard she chooses is a liar or not based on what answer he gives, so there's no need to bother asking the other one. Anyway, if she's only limited to one question, period, then what's the point? Unless she has the gift of second sight, then she's forced to waste her question trying to solve the puzzle, no matter what question she ultimately asks, and then she's stuck; she's solved the puzzle, but since she's now forbidden from asking any more questions, she's just as stuck as she was before and the whole exercise is a massive waste of time.
time. Although, having just reviewed [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dgmgub8mHw the scene in question,]] I guess it could be interpreted either way--that she only gets one question, or that she gets as many as she wants but can only ask one of the guards.
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**** But even if she goes with my solution, she still only ''needs'' one question; she would automatically know whether the guard she chooses is a liar or not based on what answer he gives, so there's no need to bother asking the other one. Anyway, if she's only limited to one question, period, then what's the point? Unless she has the gift of second sight, then she's forced to waste her question trying to solve the puzzle, no matter what question she ultimately asks, and then she's stuck; she's solved the puzzle, but since she's now forbidden from asking any more questions, she's just as stuck as she was before and the whole exercise is a massive waste of time.
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**** It's never stated how many questions she can ask, but it is stated that she can only ask one of the guards and not both, presumably to get around exactly that. It's implied that she only gets one question, though.
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*** I don't remember her being limited to one question, but then again, it's been a while since I saw it.
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** I always thought that the way she asked it was brilliant. She can only ask one question, yet she manages to get both pieces of information- which guard is lying and which is the correct door. By asking "what color are my eyes?" you would find out which is lying, but then what good would that information be since you have used your question?
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*** By eating a peach? I knew there was a reason I didn't like them.
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** He's got a soft spot for her. She probaby just wore him down.
* The truth-and-lies puzzle. I know it's been said elsewhere, but I'll say it again because what the hell: She could have solved that puzzle simply by cutting the knot in half and asking either of the guards something patently obvious, like "What color are my eyes?" Granted, the movie would probably have been over in half the time, but it seems so obvious that I'm a little disappointed neither of the guards mentioned it. Something like, "And no sneaky stuff! We know all about logic, and we won't let you off that easy!" Sheesh, that took me a whole ten seconds to type; would it have been so damn hard to toss it in? Then again, given that we only have the guards' word for it, who knows? The whole puzzle might have been rigged from the get-go. Jareth certainly seems like the type, doesn't he?
* The truth-and-lies puzzle. I know it's been said elsewhere, but I'll say it again because what the hell: She could have solved that puzzle simply by cutting the knot in half and asking either of the guards something patently obvious, like "What color are my eyes?" Granted, the movie would probably have been over in half the time, but it seems so obvious that I'm a little disappointed neither of the guards mentioned it. Something like, "And no sneaky stuff! We know all about logic, and we won't let you off that easy!" Sheesh, that took me a whole ten seconds to type; would it have been so damn hard to toss it in? Then again, given that we only have the guards' word for it, who knows? The whole puzzle might have been rigged from the get-go. Jareth certainly seems like the type, doesn't he?
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*When Hoggle is being petty about the questions Sarah is asking, he finally helps after Sarah asks "how do I get into the Labyrinth?". I always thought that Hoggle should've replied "through the door", conintuing with the badly asked questions.
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**No, you're not the only one--he's kind of creepy to me.
