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****Bythat same logic, lets not forget that if Rapunzel has chidren they wouldn't be part of the Baker family, the would be part of the Royal family
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** Another question I have might be, why ''would'' the witch revoke the curse's effect over Rapunzel? I don't know if her circumstances were different in the stage show, but keeping her locked in the tower would seem to suggest that the witch didn't intend for her to ever meet anyone else, and I heard that she flipped out upon finding out Rapunzel was pregnant. So why would she allow her to become pregnant if she hadn't ever wanted her to?
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** This troper thinks that it may be a case of ExactWords. This could work out in one of two ways:
*** The Witch stated that she specifically cursed the Baker and his parents: "I put a little spell on them. You too, son." Additionally, the Witch considered Rapunzel part of ''her'' family, not the Baker's, which may have excluded her from the curse.
*** The Baker and his wife keep reiterating "The spell is on my/our house", which this troper always assumed was meant in the metonymic sense of using "house" to refer to "family", but it could possibly mean that the spell is literally on the house itself. Rapunzel didn't live in the house, so she wasn't cursed.
** It's also possible that the Witch lifted the curse from Rapunzel after taking her.
*** The Witch stated that she specifically cursed the Baker and his parents: "I put a little spell on them. You too, son." Additionally, the Witch considered Rapunzel part of ''her'' family, not the Baker's, which may have excluded her from the curse.
*** The Baker and his wife keep reiterating "The spell is on my/our house", which this troper always assumed was meant in the metonymic sense of using "house" to refer to "family", but it could possibly mean that the spell is literally on the house itself. Rapunzel didn't live in the house, so she wasn't cursed.
** It's also possible that the Witch lifted the curse from Rapunzel after taking her.
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** I can't remember if we saw much of the moon in the film - but if it was a full moon, maybe the spell could only be completed over three nights of the full moon cycle? Or the witch just one day realised that the blue moon was coming up and told the couple they would only have three days to do it. Perhaps the reason she isn't as 'in the know' about the cow is because she's still reeling from Rapunzel's 'betrayal'? She just found out her daughter was seeing a prince on the side and banished her to a faraway swamp. It makes sense that she wouldn't be paying attention if she was focusing on that.
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** I can't remember if we saw much of the moon in the film - but if it was a full moon, maybe the spell could only be completed over three nights of the full moon cycle? Or the witch just one day realised realized that the blue moon was coming up and told the couple they would only have three days to do it. Perhaps the reason she isn't as 'in the know' about the cow is because she's still reeling from Rapunzel's 'betrayal'? She just found out her daughter was seeing a prince on the side and banished her to a faraway swamp. It makes sense that she wouldn't be paying attention if she was focusing on that.
that.
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[[folder: Little Red's wish]]
* Did Little Red have something she was wishing for at the start of the film? We know that Cinderella wants to attend the festival, the Baker and his wife want a child, and Jack and his mother "want" (need) some money, or a more fruitful cow. All of their wishes come true, only for them to discover that they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be. But Red didn't seem to have any wish in the beginning, nor did she seem to learn anything at the end - she starts off with getting some bread to take to her grandmother, the opening song cuts off and goes elsewhere without telling us what her wish is, and even her scene with the Wolf, although similar to Jack's with the Giantess, doesn't seem to tie into any sort of character arc. Did she have one? Was she supposed to have one?
* Did Little Red have something she was wishing for at the start of the film? We know that Cinderella wants to attend the festival, the Baker and his wife want a child, and Jack and his mother "want" (need) some money, or a more fruitful cow. All of their wishes come true, only for them to discover that they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be. But Red didn't seem to have any wish in the beginning, nor did she seem to learn anything at the end - she starts off with getting some bread to take to her grandmother, the opening song cuts off and goes elsewhere without telling us what her wish is, and even her scene with the Wolf, although similar to Jack's with the Giantess, doesn't seem to tie into any sort of character arc. Did she have one? Was she supposed to have one?
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[[folder: Little Red's wish]]
Rapunzel's pregnancy]]
*Did Little Red have something she How was wishing for at Rapunzel able to become pregnant in the start of theatrical production? I thought the film? We know witch had cursed the Baker's father so that Cinderella wants to attend the festival, the Baker he and his wife want a child, and Jack and his mother "want" (need) some money, or a more fruitful cow. All of their wishes come true, only for them descendants would never be able to discover that they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be. But Red didn't seem to have any wish in reproduce...Isn't Rapunzel the beginning, nor Baker's sister? Or did she seem to learn anything at not become pregnant until after the end - she starts off with getting some bread to take to her grandmother, curse had been lifted? (Apologies, I haven't seen the opening song cuts off and goes elsewhere without telling us what her wish is, and even her scene with the Wolf, although similar to Jack's with the Giantess, doesn't seem to tie into any sort of character arc. Did she have one? Was she supposed to have one?play.)
*
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* Did Little Red have something she was wishing for at the start of the film? We know that Cinderella wants to attend the festival, the Baker and his wife want a child, and Jack and his mother "want" (need) some money, or a more fruitful cow. All of their wishes come true, only for them to discover that they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be. But Red didn't seem to have any wish in the beginning, nor did she seem to learn anything at the end - she starts off with getting some bread to take to her grandmother, and even her scene with the Wolf, although similar to Jack's with the Giantess, doesn't seem to tie into any sort of story arc. Did she have one? Was she supposed to have one?
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* Did Little Red have something she was wishing for at the start of the film? We know that Cinderella wants to attend the festival, the Baker and his wife want a child, and Jack and his mother "want" (need) some money, or a more fruitful cow. All of their wishes come true, only for them to discover that they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be. But Red didn't seem to have any wish in the beginning, nor did she seem to learn anything at the end - she starts off with getting some bread to take to her grandmother, the opening song cuts off and goes elsewhere without telling us what her wish is, and even her scene with the Wolf, although similar to Jack's with the Giantess, doesn't seem to tie into any sort of story character arc. Did she have one? Was she supposed to have one?
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* Did Little Red have something she was wishing for at the start of the film. We know that Cinderella wants to attend the festival, the Baker and his wife want a child, and Jack and his mother "want" (need) some money, or a more fruitful cow. All of their wishes come true, only for them to discover that they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be. But Red didn't seem to have any wish in the beginning, nor did she seem to learn anything at the end - she starts off with getting some bread to take to her grandmother, and even her scene with the Wolf, although similar to Jack's with the Giantess, doesn't seem to tie into any sort of story arc. Did she have one? Was she supposed to have one?
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* Did Little Red have something she was wishing for at the start of the film. film? We know that Cinderella wants to attend the festival, the Baker and his wife want a child, and Jack and his mother "want" (need) some money, or a more fruitful cow. All of their wishes come true, only for them to discover that they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be. But Red didn't seem to have any wish in the beginning, nor did she seem to learn anything at the end - she starts off with getting some bread to take to her grandmother, and even her scene with the Wolf, although similar to Jack's with the Giantess, doesn't seem to tie into any sort of story arc. Did she have one? Was she supposed to have one?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Little Red's wish]]
* Did Little Red have something she was wishing for at the start of the film. We know that Cinderella wants to attend the festival, the Baker and his wife want a child, and Jack and his mother "want" (need) some money, or a more fruitful cow. All of their wishes come true, only for them to discover that they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be. But Red didn't seem to have any wish in the beginning, nor did she seem to learn anything at the end - she starts off with getting some bread to take to her grandmother, and even her scene with the Wolf, although similar to Jack's with the Giantess, doesn't seem to tie into any sort of story arc. Did she have one? Was she supposed to have one?
[[folder: Little Red's wish]]
* Did Little Red have something she was wishing for at the start of the film. We know that Cinderella wants to attend the festival, the Baker and his wife want a child, and Jack and his mother "want" (need) some money, or a more fruitful cow. All of their wishes come true, only for them to discover that they aren't as happy as they thought they'd be. But Red didn't seem to have any wish in the beginning, nor did she seem to learn anything at the end - she starts off with getting some bread to take to her grandmother, and even her scene with the Wolf, although similar to Jack's with the Giantess, doesn't seem to tie into any sort of story arc. Did she have one? Was she supposed to have one?
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** There is some small merit to sparing her here in the film. In the original version, she's banished to a desert and her prince doesn't find her until she's already given birth to twins. So in that she's been forced to fend for herself in the desert, while pregnant (and possibly not even knowing what pregnancy is), and has to give birth to two babies all on her own. Here she doesn't appear to be pregnant and the prince finds her before the end of the third midnight. So in the film her TraumaCongaLine doesn't happen, so she has no reason to have become so broken that she lets the giantess kill her.
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** It's possible that the Baker's narration that we hear is from him telling the story some time later. He also narrates certain events he didn't see or should have any reason to know about. So presumably since Rapunzel survives, she and the Baker reconcile. This would also explain why he knows about what the Witch did to her and the prince at all.
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** It seems more like he wanted to slow her down so he could catch her himself.
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** And earlier in the film, just before the Witch bursts in and gets the plot going, the wife says "we've sold our last loaf of bread" - so they have no more bread in the bakery, and can't spare the time to make more.
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** Because they were in a time limit and didn't have time for thinking it out.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Why beans?]]
* The Baker and his wife trick Jack into trading for some random beans they had while ignoring the obvious solution: they are bakers. They make food. Jack and his mom were hungry. Take the kid back to the bakery, give him some free bread in exchange for the cow, and tell him he gets a lifetime discount as well. Problem solved.
[[folder: Why beans?]]
* The Baker and his wife trick Jack into trading for some random beans they had while ignoring the obvious solution: they are bakers. They make food. Jack and his mom were hungry. Take the kid back to the bakery, give him some free bread in exchange for the cow, and tell him he gets a lifetime discount as well. Problem solved.
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** He probably put two and two together eventually.
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* This may be a movie only problem, but if the prince was smart enough to put sticky stuff on the steps to catch Cinderella why didn't he think to just put some guards there to stop her? Or even maybe put some guards at the doors? [[/folder]]
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* This may be a movie only problem, but if the prince was smart enough to put sticky stuff on the steps to catch Cinderella why didn't he think to just put some guards there to stop her? Or even maybe put some guards at the doors? doors?
** Maybe he worried putting guards there might scare Cinderella too much(not something he wants, considering at that point he ''really'' wants to marry her and she might be too upset if she'd been seized by guards and brought back to him), or that she'd spot them and look for another way out.
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** Maybe he worried putting guards there might scare Cinderella too much(not something he wants, considering at that point he ''really'' wants to marry her and she might be too upset if she'd been seized by guards and brought back to him), or that she'd spot them and look for another way out.
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** Also, letting her ride off with her Prince to (presumed) safety means that Rapunzel's Prince is also out of the picture, so that's one fewer character to account for during Act II.
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** Also, letting her ride off with her Prince to (presumed) safety means that Rapunzel's Prince is also out of the picture, so that's one fewer character to account for during Act II.
II.
*If the Baker never meets her, how does he know she's his sister while narrating the story?
*If the Baker never meets her, how does he know she's his sister while narrating the story?
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[[folder: Cinderella's prince's plan.]]
*This may be a movie only problem, but if the prince was smart enough to put sticky stuff on the steps to catch Cinderella why didn't he think to just put some guards there to stop her? Or even maybe put some guards at the doors? [[/folder]]
[[folder: Cinderella's prince's plan.]]
*This may be a movie only problem, but if the prince was smart enough to put sticky stuff on the steps to catch Cinderella why didn't he think to just put some guards there to stop her? Or even maybe put some guards at the doors? [[/folder]]
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** I can't remember if we saw much of the moon in the film - but if it was a full moon, maybe the spell could only be completed over three nights of the full moon cycle? Or the witch just one day realised that the blue moon was coming up and told the couple they would only have three days to do it. Perhaps the reason she isn't as 'in the know' about the cow is because she's still reeling from Rapunzel's 'betrayal'? She just found out her daughter was seeing a prince on the side and banished her to a faraway swamp. It makes sense that she wouldn't be paying attention if she was focusing on that.
** It could be from her mother eating vegetables from the witch's garden while pregnant. If the witch's vegetables are enchanted somehow, a pregnant woman eating them could pass on some of the magic to her daughter.
** Or else tears just have ''that'' kind of power in this universe. Cinderella's tears are able to make a magic wishing tree grow.
** Or else tears just have ''that'' kind of power in this universe. Cinderella's tears are able to make a magic wishing tree grow.
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** Well do you see any other witches in the area? They're trying to solve a very time-sensitive issue. The longer the Giantess is stomping around the place, the more people are going to be hurt. The witch is thinking of the obvious - hand Jack over to the Giantess and she'll go away.
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* Bringing Milky White back to life is a piece of cake, but later on the witch says "When you're dead, you're dead" with utmost finality. Yes, she didn't have her powers any longer but surely she's not the only magic user in the world, and even then her statement doesn't jive with what we've seen. What about Cinderella's mother being able to grant wishes from beyond the grave? Could enough tears grow a magic wish-granting tree for the Baker's wife?
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* Bringing Milky White back to life is a piece of cake, but later on the witch says "When you're dead, you're dead" with utmost finality. Yes, she didn't have her powers any longer but surely she's not the only magic user in the world, and even then her statement doesn't jive with what we've seen.you'd think the Baker would have at least brought it up. What about Cinderella's mother being able to grant wishes from beyond the grave? Could enough tears grow a magic wish-granting tree for the Baker's wife?
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[[folder:When you're dead, you're dead... unless you're a cow.]]
* Bringing Milky White back to life is a piece of cake, but later on the witch says "When you're dead, you're dead" with utmost finality. Yes, she didn't have her powers any longer but surely she's not the only magic user in the world, and even then her statement doesn't jive with what we've seen. What about Cinderella's mother being able to grant wishes from beyond the grave? Could enough tears grow a magic wish-granting tree for the Baker's wife?
[[/folder]]
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** Holdover from the original fairy tale. Call it ThePowerOfLove. Her having magic that comes from the witch's garden would fit in with ''Disney/{{Tangled}}'', but of course, the play predates the Disney film and went with the fairy tale's resolution.
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*** When this troper watched it, she had thought the potion had to be started and completed within just three days, the specific three days before the blue moon (as a sort of complement to the King's three-day festival), but in retrospect, it doesn't really say that anywhere. I kind of just assumed.
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[[folder:Rapunzel's magic]]
*So, Rapunzel's tears are magic and they un-blind her prince. But is there any explanation for her magic in this universe? Did the witch somehow give her powers? Did the Baker's mom eating greens from the witch's garden while pregnant give her daughter special abilities? Or is the magic just supposed to be an inherent part of Rapunzel's character that her brother doesn't seem to share?
[[/folder]]
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** Also, letting her ride off with her Prince to (presumed) safety means that Rapunzel's Prince is also out of the picture, so that's one fewer character to account for during Act II.
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*** As for why she didn't start them on the quest sooner, it's possible maybe she only just found out how to make the potion.
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** Disney probably had problems with having one of their princesses committing suicide.
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** Disney probably had problems with having one of their princesses going insane and committing suicide.
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Is there any reason why they let Rapunzel live in the film version? They killed Jack's mother and the Baker's wife, so it can't be merely censorship.
* Disney probably had problems with having one of their princesses committing suicide.
* Disney probably had problems with having one of their princesses committing suicide.
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New entries on the bottom.
[[foldercontrol]]
[[folder:Rapunzel's fate]]
* Is there any reason why they let Rapunzel live in the film version? They killed Jack's mother and the Baker's wife, so it can't be merely censorship.
* ** Disney probably had problems with having one of their princesses committing suicide.
[[foldercontrol]]
[[folder:Rapunzel's fate]]
* Is there any reason why they let Rapunzel live in the film version? They killed Jack's mother and the Baker's wife, so it can't be merely censorship.
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It might just be that I've only seen the stage show, but how omniscient is the witch? Early on in act 1 she can show up whenever she wants during the Baker and his Wife's quest, and she seems to know exactly what they've achieved. Later, they have to tell her the cow's dead. And for that matter, why didn't she just come with them? She could have certainly been helpful, as long as they were the ones to touch the items.
* She could have put the Baker and the Baker's Wife on their quest more than three days before they needed to collect all four items, but didn't do so despite living literally next door. She may just not be very stable, she might have restrictions on her powers we're not aware of, or other complications. The restriction on touching the items in particular seems complicated: she's able to revive Milky White without violating that rule, but Rapunzel's hair is disqualified and she doesn't ask the Baker to give the red cloak in a bag or placed somewhere safe.
* She could have put the Baker and the Baker's Wife on their quest more than three days before they needed to collect all four items, but didn't do so despite living literally next door. She may just not be very stable, she might have restrictions on her powers we're not aware of, or other complications. The restriction on touching the items in particular seems complicated: she's able to revive Milky White without violating that rule, but Rapunzel's hair is disqualified and she doesn't ask the Baker to give the red cloak in a bag or placed somewhere safe.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder:Witch's knowledge]]
* It might just be that I've only seen the stage show, but how omniscient is the witch? Early on in act 1 she can show up whenever she wants during the Baker and his Wife's quest, and she seems to know exactly what they've achieved. Later, they have to tell her the cow's dead. And for that matter, why didn't she just come with them? She could have certainly been helpful, as long as they were the ones to touch the items.
* ** She could have put the Baker and the Baker's Wife on their quest more than three days before they needed to collect all four items, but didn't do so despite living literally next door. She may just not be very stable, she might have restrictions on her powers we're not aware of, or other complications. The restriction on touching the items in particular seems complicated: she's able to revive Milky White without violating that rule, but Rapunzel's hair is disqualified and she doesn't ask the Baker to give the red cloak in a bag or placed somewhere safe.safe.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Witch's knowledge]]
* It might just be that I've only seen the stage show, but how omniscient is the witch? Early on in act 1 she can show up whenever she wants during the Baker and his Wife's quest, and she seems to know exactly what they've achieved. Later, they have to tell her the cow's dead. And for that matter, why didn't she just come with them? She could have certainly been helpful, as long as they were the ones to touch the items.
[[/folder]]
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Is there any reason why they let Rapunzel live? They killed Jack's mother and the Baker's wife, so it can't be merely censorship.
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Is there any reason why they let Rapunzel live? live in the film version? They killed Jack's mother and the Baker's wife, so it can't be merely censorship.
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It might just be that I've only seen the stage show, but how omniscient is the witch? Early on in act 1 she can show up whenever she wants during the Baker and his Wife's quest, and she seems to know exactly what they've achieved. Later, they have to tell her the cow's dead. And for that matter, why didn't she just come with them? She could have certainly been helpful, as long as they were the ones to touch the items.
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** Her death and instability are also pretty dark, even compared to the rest of the already-dark play, without really adding much to the story. They had to compress quite a bit just to fit into the film.
It might just be that I've only seen the stage show, but how omniscient is the witch? Early on in act 1 she can show up whenever she wants during the Baker and his Wife's quest, and she seems to know exactly what they've achieved. Later, they have to tell her the cow's dead. And for that matter, why didn't she just come with them? She could have certainly been helpful, as long as they were the ones to touch theitems.items.
* She could have put the Baker and the Baker's Wife on their quest more than three days before they needed to collect all four items, but didn't do so despite living literally next door. She may just not be very stable, she might have restrictions on her powers we're not aware of, or other complications. The restriction on touching the items in particular seems complicated: she's able to revive Milky White without violating that rule, but Rapunzel's hair is disqualified and she doesn't ask the Baker to give the red cloak in a bag or placed somewhere safe.
It might just be that I've only seen the stage show, but how omniscient is the witch? Early on in act 1 she can show up whenever she wants during the Baker and his Wife's quest, and she seems to know exactly what they've achieved. Later, they have to tell her the cow's dead. And for that matter, why didn't she just come with them? She could have certainly been helpful, as long as they were the ones to touch the
* She could have put the Baker and the Baker's Wife on their quest more than three days before they needed to collect all four items, but didn't do so despite living literally next door. She may just not be very stable, she might have restrictions on her powers we're not aware of, or other complications. The restriction on touching the items in particular seems complicated: she's able to revive Milky White without violating that rule, but Rapunzel's hair is disqualified and she doesn't ask the Baker to give the red cloak in a bag or placed somewhere safe.
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* Disney probably had problems with having one of their princesses committing suicide.
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* Disney probably had problems with having one of their princesses committing suicide.suicide.
It might just be that I've only seen the stage show, but how omniscient is the witch? Early on in act 1 she can show up whenever she wants during the Baker and his Wife's quest, and she seems to know exactly what they've achieved. Later, they have to tell her the cow's dead. And for that matter, why didn't she just come with them? She could have certainly been helpful, as long as they were the ones to touch the items.
It might just be that I've only seen the stage show, but how omniscient is the witch? Early on in act 1 she can show up whenever she wants during the Baker and his Wife's quest, and she seems to know exactly what they've achieved. Later, they have to tell her the cow's dead. And for that matter, why didn't she just come with them? She could have certainly been helpful, as long as they were the ones to touch the items.
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Is there any reason why they let Rapunzel live? They killed Jack's mother and the Baker's wife, so it can't be merely censorship.
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Is there any reason why they let Rapunzel live? They killed Jack's mother and the Baker's wife, so it can't be merely censorship.censorship.
* Disney probably had problems with having one of their princesses committing suicide.
* Disney probably had problems with having one of their princesses committing suicide.
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Is there any reason why they let Rapunzel live? They killed Jack's mother and the Baker's wife, so it can't be merely censorship.
