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Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
* I wouldn't quite say Elsa slut-shaming Helen is any less serious than Elsa's other insults throughout the film. If anything, it might be worse. However, that is undoubtedly Elsa in that scene.
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* I wouldn't quite say Elsa slut-shaming Helen is any less serious than Elsa's other insults throughout the film. If anything, it might be worse. However, that is undoubtedly Elsa in that scene.scene.
[[WMG: Ben Willis surviving]]
So how exactly did Ben Willis, a normal human being, survive getting hit by a speeding car, or at least without having to spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair?
[[WMG: Ben Willis surviving]]
So how exactly did Ben Willis, a normal human being, survive getting hit by a speeding car, or at least without having to spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair?
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** One of the last things Max does is threaten to call the cops on Barry if he comes after him again. Hell, Ben probably ''knew'' him if they both worked in the same industry in a small town, so he may have known it was likely Max would go to the police. If Max phones the cops and Barry is stuck in jail for assault, it makes it all the harder to enact his revenge.
** And Julie and Max were friends in the past, or at least friendly, so Julie could easily ask "did you send this note?" and he'd be like "no, what note?" and then all too quickly getting into discussions about hows and whys. If the teens start talking to the police, they risk exposing him as a killer too. Sure, a body was found washed up on the beach, but there would have to be a legal process of making sure it was the same one the teens hit; Julie just has to mention a tattoo on the wrist saying 'Suzie' and immediately it opens the discussion of 'if David Egan wasn't the one hit, how did his body end up in the ocean?' and Ben is in trouble. We don't know specifically ''what'' he was planning to do after getting revenge on the four, but it's safe to say that going to jail for murder wasn't on the to do list. In short, Max was a loose end that could derail his revenge, so he had to die.
** And Julie and Max were friends in the past, or at least friendly, so Julie could easily ask "did you send this note?" and he'd be like "no, what note?" and then all too quickly getting into discussions about hows and whys. If the teens start talking to the police, they risk exposing him as a killer too. Sure, a body was found washed up on the beach, but there would have to be a legal process of making sure it was the same one the teens hit; Julie just has to mention a tattoo on the wrist saying 'Suzie' and immediately it opens the discussion of 'if David Egan wasn't the one hit, how did his body end up in the ocean?' and Ben is in trouble. We don't know specifically ''what'' he was planning to do after getting revenge on the four, but it's safe to say that going to jail for murder wasn't on the to do list. In short, Max was a loose end that could derail his revenge, so he had to die.
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Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
** The movie makes it look like Julie was very close to Helen's house when she started running, maybe a minute or two away on foot, and that it took merely perhaps five to ten minutes overall for them to arrive back to the car. However, this might only be poor editing. It's not shown how far Julie stopped her car from the house. It could have been like 10-15 minutes away on foot, which could have given the killer something like a half hour time to clear the trunk. (If the movie wanted to make this clearer, it could have shown extra scenes of Julie running and walking along several streets before arriving at the house. And perhaps have them all go back to the car in another car, to hammer in the fact that the distance was significant.)[
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** The movie makes it look like Julie was very close to Helen's house when she started running, maybe a minute or two away on foot, and that it took merely perhaps five to ten minutes overall for them to arrive back to the car. However, this might only be poor editing. It's not shown how far Julie stopped her car from the house. It could have been like 10-15 minutes away on foot, which could have given the killer something like a half hour time to clear the trunk. trunk (If the movie wanted to make this clearer, it could have shown extra scenes of Julie running and walking along several streets before arriving at the house. And perhaps have them all go back to the car in another car, to hammer in the fact that the distance was significant.)[significant).
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North Americans know about Home Depot but not so much for Homebase (a UK store).
Changed line(s) 19 (click to see context) from:
** If you take a stanley knife and open a bin bag along it's long edge you end up with a good 12' by 8' tarp if you cut carefully, easily enough to make a rudimentary car boot liner. Now, this troper knows all too well that, despite scientists trying for decades to make a material one atom thick, Tesco have already beaten them to it with their bin bags but, but but but.... The dude prolly just went to Homebase first and got gardening strength bin bags.
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** If you take a stanley knife and open a bin bag along it's long edge you end up with a good 12' by 8' tarp if you cut carefully, easily enough to make a rudimentary car boot liner. Now, this troper knows I know all too well that, despite scientists trying for decades to make a material one atom thick, Tesco have already beaten them to it with their bin bags but, but but but.... but... The dude prolly just went to Homebase Home Depot first and got gardening strength bin bags.
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Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
* It's debatable about whether they have ''quite'' the same animosity in that scene. The sister at the party (who admittedly probably is Elsa based on the logic mentioned above) offers Helen a ride home and seems to insult her in a slightly less serious fashion than anything Elsa says later in the movie.
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* It's debatable about whether they have ''quite'' the same animosity in that scene. The sister at the party (who admittedly probably is Elsa based on the logic mentioned above) offers Helen a ride home and seems to insult her in a slightly less serious fashion than anything Elsa says later in the movie.movie.
* I wouldn't quite say Elsa slut-shaming Helen is any less serious than Elsa's other insults throughout the film. If anything, it might be worse. However, that is undoubtedly Elsa in that scene.
* I wouldn't quite say Elsa slut-shaming Helen is any less serious than Elsa's other insults throughout the film. If anything, it might be worse. However, that is undoubtedly Elsa in that scene.
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Changed line(s) 24 (click to see context) from:
* According to the script and commentary that is Elsa, and no other siblings are ever mentioned. Plus, they have the same animosity that runs throughout the film. It's possible she isn't wearing glasses because she's out partying with friends. In a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment panning over the crowd, you can see Elsa and two friends drinking. The leather jacket and flashy necklace are also probably because she's out with friends.
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* According to the script and commentary that is Elsa, and no other siblings are ever mentioned. Plus, they have the same animosity that runs throughout the film. It's possible she isn't wearing glasses because she's out partying with friends. In a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment panning over the crowd, you can see Elsa and two friends drinking. The leather jacket and flashy necklace are also probably because she's out with friends.friends.
* It's debatable about whether they have ''quite'' the same animosity in that scene. The sister at the party (who admittedly probably is Elsa based on the logic mentioned above) offers Helen a ride home and seems to insult her in a slightly less serious fashion than anything Elsa says later in the movie.
* It's debatable about whether they have ''quite'' the same animosity in that scene. The sister at the party (who admittedly probably is Elsa based on the logic mentioned above) offers Helen a ride home and seems to insult her in a slightly less serious fashion than anything Elsa says later in the movie.
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Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
Helen's sister in that scene isn't referred to by name. She isn't wearing glasses, which Elsa does in all subsequent scenes. She also has a flashy necklace and a leather jacket, neither of which Elsa wears later in the movie.
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Helen's sister in that scene isn't referred to by name. She isn't wearing glasses, which Elsa does in all subsequent scenes. She also has a flashy necklace and a leather jacket, neither of which Elsa wears later in the movie.movie.
* According to the script and commentary that is Elsa, and no other siblings are ever mentioned. Plus, they have the same animosity that runs throughout the film. It's possible she isn't wearing glasses because she's out partying with friends. In a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment panning over the crowd, you can see Elsa and two friends drinking. The leather jacket and flashy necklace are also probably because she's out with friends.
* According to the script and commentary that is Elsa, and no other siblings are ever mentioned. Plus, they have the same animosity that runs throughout the film. It's possible she isn't wearing glasses because she's out partying with friends. In a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment panning over the crowd, you can see Elsa and two friends drinking. The leather jacket and flashy necklace are also probably because she's out with friends.
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* For what it's worth, Jennifer Love Hewitt (along with Brandy and Freddie) were contracted to do a third film according to WordOfGod (their contracts eventually expired). So, presumably the final scene was yet another dream sequence.
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Adding a missing bracket which I accidentally deleted while moving the writing sample which I got approved for the page on the get help with English thread.
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[WMG: Was it Elsa at the pageant in the beginning, or another Shivers sister with a StrongFamilyResemblance?]]
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Adding an example approved by the get help with English thread.
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
** The movie makes it look like Julie was very close to Helen's house when she started running, maybe a minute or two away on foot, and that it took merely perhaps five to ten minutes overall for them to arrive back to the car. However, this might only be poor editing. It's not shown how far Julie stopped her car from the house. It could have been like 10-15 minutes away on foot, which could have given the killer something like a half hour time to clear the trunk. (If the movie wanted to make this clearer, it could have shown extra scenes of Julie running and walking along several streets before arriving at the house. And perhaps have them all go back to the car in another car, to hammer in the fact that the distance was significant.)
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** The movie makes it look like Julie was very close to Helen's house when she started running, maybe a minute or two away on foot, and that it took merely perhaps five to ten minutes overall for them to arrive back to the car. However, this might only be poor editing. It's not shown how far Julie stopped her car from the house. It could have been like 10-15 minutes away on foot, which could have given the killer something like a half hour time to clear the trunk. (If the movie wanted to make this clearer, it could have shown extra scenes of Julie running and walking along several streets before arriving at the house. And perhaps have them all go back to the car in another car, to hammer in the fact that the distance was significant.))[
[WMG: Was it Elsa at the pageant in the beginning, or another Shivers sister with a StrongFamilyResemblance?]]
Helen's sister in that scene isn't referred to by name. She isn't wearing glasses, which Elsa does in all subsequent scenes. She also has a flashy necklace and a leather jacket, neither of which Elsa wears later in the movie.
[WMG: Was it Elsa at the pageant in the beginning, or another Shivers sister with a StrongFamilyResemblance?]]
Helen's sister in that scene isn't referred to by name. She isn't wearing glasses, which Elsa does in all subsequent scenes. She also has a flashy necklace and a leather jacket, neither of which Elsa wears later in the movie.
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Changed line(s) 19 (click to see context) from:
** It's a long shot but let's say that Ben was lying in wait near Julie's house for her to leave. Not unreasonable - she's bound to get news about what he did to Helen. So after she leaves, he quickly moves the stuff into his own car. If he did lay Max's body and the crabs onto some boot liner, it might actually be easier than you think. Let's say for the sake of argument that Julie had to run a bit further to Helen's house - as she doesn't stop outside it. So she has to run all the way to the house, explain to Barry and Helen what she's seen and then lead them back to the car. You can see why he did this rather than just leaving the body in Julie's car - so [[CassandraTruth no one will believe her]]. It banks on no one driving by and seeing what he's doing, but it's just about doable.
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** It's a long shot but let's say that Ben was lying in wait near Julie's house for her to leave. Not unreasonable - she's bound to get news about what he did to Helen. So after she leaves, he quickly moves the stuff into his own car. If he did lay Max's body and the crabs onto some boot liner, it might actually be easier than you think. Let's say for the sake of argument that Julie had to run a bit further to Helen's house - as she doesn't stop outside it. So she has to run all the way to the house, explain to Barry and Helen what she's seen and then lead them back to the car. You can see why he did this rather than just leaving the body in Julie's car - so [[CassandraTruth no one will believe her]]. It banks on no one driving by and seeing what he's doing, but it's just about doable.doable.
** The movie makes it look like Julie was very close to Helen's house when she started running, maybe a minute or two away on foot, and that it took merely perhaps five to ten minutes overall for them to arrive back to the car. However, this might only be poor editing. It's not shown how far Julie stopped her car from the house. It could have been like 10-15 minutes away on foot, which could have given the killer something like a half hour time to clear the trunk. (If the movie wanted to make this clearer, it could have shown extra scenes of Julie running and walking along several streets before arriving at the house. And perhaps have them all go back to the car in another car, to hammer in the fact that the distance was significant.)
** The movie makes it look like Julie was very close to Helen's house when she started running, maybe a minute or two away on foot, and that it took merely perhaps five to ten minutes overall for them to arrive back to the car. However, this might only be poor editing. It's not shown how far Julie stopped her car from the house. It could have been like 10-15 minutes away on foot, which could have given the killer something like a half hour time to clear the trunk. (If the movie wanted to make this clearer, it could have shown extra scenes of Julie running and walking along several streets before arriving at the house. And perhaps have them all go back to the car in another car, to hammer in the fact that the distance was significant.)
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[[WMG: The tanning bed.]]
So, Julie's trapped in a tanning bed in the second film. Very quickly, four people come to the rescue. They eventually use a blunt object(?!) to break the ziptie holding the halves of the tanning bed in place after some struggling and a lot of writhing around from Jennifer Love-Hewitt. Nobody bothered to reach over to the wall and unplug the bed?
* Panic-induced stupidity?
[[WMG: Hot Tub Time Machine?]]
So Will Benson is in the hot tub while Julie finds the porters body. She runs out and gets their attention to show the group the body, when they go in to check the corpse is gone and the blood is cleaned. BUT Will is the killer, so how did he pull that off?
So, Julie's trapped in a tanning bed in the second film. Very quickly, four people come to the rescue. They eventually use a blunt object(?!) to break the ziptie holding the halves of the tanning bed in place after some struggling and a lot of writhing around from Jennifer Love-Hewitt. Nobody bothered to reach over to the wall and unplug the bed?
* Panic-induced stupidity?
[[WMG: Hot Tub Time Machine?]]
So Will Benson is in the hot tub while Julie finds the porters body. She runs out and gets their attention to show the group the body, when they go in to check the corpse is gone and the blood is cleaned. BUT Will is the killer, so how did he pull that off?
Changed line(s) 26,28 (click to see context) from:
** It's a long shot but let's say that Ben was lying in wait near Julie's house for her to leave. Not unreasonable - she's bound to get news about what he did to Helen. So after she leaves, he quickly moves the stuff into his own car. If he did lay Max's body and the crabs onto some boot liner, it might actually be easier than you think. Let's say for the sake of argument that Julie had to run a bit further to Helen's house - as she doesn't stop outside it. So she has to run all the way to the house, explain to Barry and Helen what she's seen and then lead them back to the car. You can see why he did this rather than just leaving the body in Julie's car - so [[CassandraTruth no one will believe her]]. It banks on no one driving by and seeing what he's doing, but it's just about doable.
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
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** It's a long shot but let's say that Ben was lying in wait near Julie's house for her to leave. Not unreasonable - she's bound to get news about what he did to Helen. So after she leaves, he quickly moves the stuff into his own car. If he did lay Max's body and the crabs onto some boot liner, it might actually be easier than you think. Let's say for the sake of argument that Julie had to run a bit further to Helen's house - as she doesn't stop outside it. So she has to run all the way to the house, explain to Barry and Helen what she's seen and then lead them back to the car. You can see why he did this rather than just leaving the body in Julie's car - so [[CassandraTruth no one will believe her]]. It banks on no one driving by and seeing what he's doing, but it's just about doable.
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>doable.
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
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Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
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** It's a long shot but let's say that Ben was lying in wait near Julie's house for her to leave. Not unreasonable - she's bound to get news about what he did to Helen. So after she leaves, he quickly moves the stuff into his own car. If he did lay Max's body and the crabs onto some boot liner, it might actually be easier than you think. Let's say for the sake of argument that Julie had to run a bit further to Helen's house - as she doesn't stop outside it. So she has to run all the way to the house, explain to Barry and Helen what she's seen and then lead them back to the car. You can see why he did this rather than just leaving the body in Julie's car - so [[CassandraTruth no one will believe her]]. It banks on no one driving by and seeing what he's doing, but it's just about doable.
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Added
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[[WMG: Hot Tub Time Machine?]]
So Will Benson is in the hot tub while Julie finds the porters body. She runs out and gets their attention to show the group the body, when they go in to check the corpse is gone and the blood is cleaned. BUT Will is the killer, so how did he pull that off?
So Will Benson is in the hot tub while Julie finds the porters body. She runs out and gets their attention to show the group the body, when they go in to check the corpse is gone and the blood is cleaned. BUT Will is the killer, so how did he pull that off?
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very bottom of page, answer to final headscratcher.
Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
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** If you take a stanley knife and open a bin bag along it's long edge you end up with a good 12' by 8' tarp if you cut carefully, easily enough to make a rudimentary car boot liner. Now, this troper knows all too well that, despite scientists trying for decades to make a material one atom thick, Tesco have already beaten them to it with their bin bags but, but but but.... The dude prolly just went to Homebase first and got gardening strength bin bags.
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[[WMG: The trunk of Julie's car]]
So Julie opens her trunk to find Max's dead body covered in ice and live crabs, runs to tell Barry and Helen about it, and, five minutes later when she opens the trunk again, Max's body (and the ice and the crabs) are gone the trunk appears to be bone-dry. Which means: either Max was never in the trunk and Julie had a psychic vision of his death, or the killer was carrying around a spare trunk interior that, in addition to removing Max's body and cleaning up every last cube of ice, he installed (I'm assuming after removing the soiled original) in the extremely brief period in which Julie is talking to Barry and Helen. Which option is more likely?
So Julie opens her trunk to find Max's dead body covered in ice and live crabs, runs to tell Barry and Helen about it, and, five minutes later when she opens the trunk again, Max's body (and the ice and the crabs) are gone the trunk appears to be bone-dry. Which means: either Max was never in the trunk and Julie had a psychic vision of his death, or the killer was carrying around a spare trunk interior that, in addition to removing Max's body and cleaning up every last cube of ice, he installed (I'm assuming after removing the soiled original) in the extremely brief period in which Julie is talking to Barry and Helen. Which option is more likely?
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** WordOfGod says that Max was killed off to show that the killer was a real threat to the protagonists. It was added in re-shoots. If you notice, no one in the film actually dies until [[spoiler: Barry at the pageant]] without it. Max's death adds that suspense. In-universe, it's sort of implied that the killer followed the kids to the pier and took pictures of them there. Being a fisherman himself, it's likely he witnessed the argument between Barry and Max and guessed Max was there on the night too. He might have thought he was in on the plan too and killed him like he was planning to do to the others. Alternately he knew Max was Julie's friend and so killed him to torture her.
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Changed line(s) 14,15 (click to see context) from:
Why was Max killed in the first movie? I can see why Elsa and the police officer were killed as they were between the killer and a victim but Max was not. He had nothing to do with the accident either so there was no apparent reason for killing him.
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Why was Max killed in the first movie? I can see why Elsa and the police officer were killed as they were between the killer and a victim but Max was not. wasn't. He had nothing to do with the accident either and leaving the Fisherman for dead either, so there was no apparent reason for killing him.
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Adding a theory... hopefully in the right place!
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[[WMG: Will was on the boat!]]
This theory sort of explains two things for me. 1) How Ben survives his one-handed water excursion and 2) his son Will's intense crazy in the sequel. Will was on the boat during the climax of the first film. He followed his father's instructions to stay hidden, only to abandon ship when his father went under. So he witnessed everything that happened between Julie, Ray and his dad- and then he rescued his dad from certain death. Once safely away from the murder scene, they plot their revenge/the sequel.
This theory sort of explains two things for me. 1) How Ben survives his one-handed water excursion and 2) his son Will's intense crazy in the sequel. Will was on the boat during the climax of the first film. He followed his father's instructions to stay hidden, only to abandon ship when his father went under. So he witnessed everything that happened between Julie, Ray and his dad- and then he rescued his dad from certain death. Once safely away from the murder scene, they plot their revenge/the sequel.
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[[WMG: Max's death.]]
Why was Max killed in the first movie? I can see why Elsa and the police officer were killed as they were between the killer and a victim but Max was not. He had nothing to do with the accident either so there was no apparent reason for killing him.
Why was Max killed in the first movie? I can see why Elsa and the police officer were killed as they were between the killer and a victim but Max was not. He had nothing to do with the accident either so there was no apparent reason for killing him.
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* Well technically at the end of the first film Julie and Ray "killed" Willis again and covered up the reason he was stalking them. So he could very well be mad about that particular summer rather than the original summer, so it's still "last summer". As for the third film, as someone already stated he's stalking and killing a new group of people for what they did their own previous summer ago.
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* Panic-induced stupidity?
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[[WMG: The tanning bed.]]
So, Julie's trapped in a tanning bed in the second film. Very quickly, four people come to the rescue. They eventually use a blunt object(?!) to break the ziptie holding the halves of the tanning bed in place after some struggling and a lot of writhing around from Jennifer Love-Hewitt. Nobody bothered to reach over to the wall and unplug the bed?
So, Julie's trapped in a tanning bed in the second film. Very quickly, four people come to the rescue. They eventually use a blunt object(?!) to break the ziptie holding the halves of the tanning bed in place after some struggling and a lot of writhing around from Jennifer Love-Hewitt. Nobody bothered to reach over to the wall and unplug the bed?
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* We have no real way of knowing their fate unless another sequel or WordOfGod addresses it.
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WhatHappenedToTheMouse So what happened to Julie at the end of the second film? Going by the third film, I'm guessing it was[[spoiler: Zombie!Ben]] who attacked her, but did Julie survive? And Ray, for that matter?
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Changed line(s) 3,5 (click to see context) from:
The execs apparently gave a pretty weak BS response to people questioning the title of the second, and as for the third, it had Willis going after new characters, who were unrelated to the events of the first two.
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The execs apparently gave a pretty weak BS response to people questioning the title of the second, and as for the third, it had Willis going after new characters, who were unrelated to the events of the first two.
