History Headscratchers / HeavyRain

8th Jun '16 1:53:18 PM MrGuy
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[[folder: Happily Ever After]]
* So if you manage to keep Ethan and Madison alive to the end, Ethan survives, gets exonerated, gets to make a new life with her and Shaun, etc. But... regardless of the fact that he's not the killer, he did, at the ''bare minimum,'' resist arrest and commit grand theft auto; it's also possible that he broke out of police custody and ''committed premeditated murder.'' How the hell does he get off scot free? Jury nullification?
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15th Apr '16 10:44:29 AM pottyaboutpotter1
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*The game makes it pretty clear the police are desperate to arrest someone for the murders to satisfy the press. I wouldn't be surprised if Blake deliberately ignored evidence that proved Ethan's innocence just so he could make an arrest and be famed as the man who "caught" the Oragami Killer. If the killings continued afterward, Blake would have tried to claim it was a copycat but likely would have lost his job for arresting/killing an innocent man. Blake is shown to be very desperate to arrest someone, note how he's 100% positive every suspect he meets is the killer? He torments Nathaniel by asking leading questions to try and trick a confession out of him. He also proves himself to ignore reason when trying to solve a case. He ignores Norman telling him he can't arrest Ethan as there's no evidence that proves he's the killer. He ignores Madison when she tells him she has evidence proving Ethan's innocence. Blake wants to make an arrest, Ethan is a good enough suspect in his eyes so Ethan is the scapegoat. He seems to be obsessed with being the man who "caught" the killer. Notice his smugness when he tells Norman that he caught the killer, not Norman. Ultimately, Blake just wants the fame and attention. He doesn't care if it's the "real" killer. If the evidence doesn't suit the narrative he's created he ignores it, hence why he ignores Ethan was in a coma and Norman telling him he has no evidence and Madison trying to show him proof he's wrong.
6th Apr '16 7:21:15 PM finalfaw
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** I think that maybe the angle of impact with the weight of Ethan combined, maybe twisted and broke Jasons' neck?
22nd Jan '16 12:49:05 PM PurpleAlert
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****** What clues would those be? The trace evidence that Norman finds with ARI? The fantastic technology that Madison doesn't have access to? Or is it the receipts that fall out of the Origami Killer's pocket, which weren't there until Norman fistfights him? There was nothing for Madison to find in the office - the answers were with Paco.

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****** What clues would those be? The trace evidence that Norman finds with ARI? The fantastic technology that Madison doesn't have access to? t0o? Or is it the receipts that fall out of the Origami Killer's pocket, which weren't there until Norman fistfights him? There was nothing for Madison to find in the office - the answers were with Paco.Paco.
****** Well, for starters, there was that huge desk that had valuable information about the killer's identity ''that the killer himself took long after Madison left because he didn't want to be identified'', those probably would have been useful to the investigation if Madison had used any of the time between knocking Paco the fuck out and tying him up to look around the room. Like an investigator would do. All she gets out of Paco is John Sheppard's name, the schedule book from the desk (which is sitting ''right on top of it'') has names, dates, and times in it, which absolutely indicated the killer's identity or he wouldn't have taken it. The only reason for Madison to go through the bullshit rigmarole with Paco is because David Cage is gross.
21st Jan '16 9:34:33 PM PurpleAlert
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* The stupid blackouts are the only thing that make Ethan think he's the killer, but Ethan never realizes that his blackouts only last a few hours and only started recently. It never even occurs to him that not only would all the stupid set-ups require him to have had been blacked out for ''months'' at a time to get and pay for an apartment, a car, learn origami, a phone, a typewriter, and all the other stuff he needed, ''and'' he'd have to find a way to do all of this for free because obviously he couldn't get a second job and a second bank account without his own knowledge, and he would have noticed "Monthly charge for storing inexplicable sports car at garage I've never heard of" on his bank statement.
27th Oct '15 9:56:09 AM KhaosKyuubi
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*** Not only that, but even if he DID wake up in October, he would have still been in a coma for six months. Coma patients can't just get up and go about walking around as soon as they get up, he would have wasted away, and needed months of physical therapy and rehab, during which he would have been closely monitored by the hospital staff. He probably would have been unable to move under his own power for several months after he woke up, and definitely in no state for kidnapping.
14th Oct '15 11:40:42 AM bassforte123
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**** The issue is that Shelby DOES think about those things during the course of the game. Look at his thought process before killing Manfred, for example. Before: "Lauren thinks she’s about the find the killer. I’m afraid she’s going to be disappointed.” and "I was crazy to let her come with me." are him not only talking about his imminent action but also the risk he is taking by having Lauren there when he's doing it. After: "Poor old man. He didn’t deserve to go like that…" is Shelby expressing remorse. Hell, look at what he says in 'A Visitor' after waking up: "I needed the rest. I havn’t been sleeping well since the murders started up again.". He thinks about the murders throughout the entire game.

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**** The issue is that Shelby DOES think about those things during the course of the game. Look at his thought process before killing Manfred, for example. Before: "Lauren thinks she’s about the find the killer. I’m afraid she’s going to be disappointed.” and "I was crazy to let her come with me." are him not only talking about his imminent action but also the risk he is taking by having Lauren there when he's doing it. After: "Poor old man. He didn’t deserve to go like that…" is Shelby expressing remorse. Hell, look at what he says in 'A Visitor' after waking up: "I needed the rest. I havn’t haven’t been sleeping well since the murders started up again.". He thinks about the murders throughout the entire game.game.
**** The last line there is a main example of the main complaint against it. "... since the murders started up again." is a tone that implies they're something outside his control, some event that is happening that he's forced to react to. It's forced writing for him to think in that manner to himself and only serves to hide the twist unnaturally. It's far more natural for him to at least use a tone that implicates himself even if it still hides the truth "I haven't been sleeping well since I've started working again." as an example. The problem isn't that Shelby's thoughts lie to the player directly, it's that they're misleading. It's natural for someone to use a few of these neutral phrases, and it's natural for someone intentionally misleading you to use these phrases all the time, but it strains suspension of disbelief to say that someone as rational as Shelby is always using misleading language in his own thoughts to himself all the time.
14th Oct '15 11:26:54 AM bassforte123
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** You can't reliably screen for that though. Just using your own words, how are you going to be able to tell that a father wouldn't perceive getting professional help as "anything to save his kids"? Hell, the origami killer is well known, even if they really did think it's the coward's way out it only takes the one thought to change their mind. "I've never heard of the Origami Killer using trials before or of a parent passing these trials. What if the only hope my kid has is if I try something different and get help from the police?".
6th Oct '15 9:00:30 AM KhaosKyuubi
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** This Troper REALLY wishes that the game gave specific dates for the various chapters. Jason's birthday was on April 20th, and unless they went to the mall the very same day (unlikely) then it was probably the next day or a few days later, in late April, maybe early may if we want to push it. If Ethan was in a coma for six months, that would bean he woke up in late October or early November, that should put him in a Coma for at least the first killing, and even if it doesn't, it still is pretty odd that this is never brought up
11th Sep '15 4:14:48 PM PurpleAlert
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** That's still a fair window for Ethan to have gotten out of the coma in time for the killings. If he went under in April. that gets him up by October.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.HeavyRain