History Headscratchers / HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire

19th May '17 1:03:35 AM QuarrelsomeChevon
Is there an issue? Send a Message







Added DiffLines:

** A great deal of these - like Rita Skeeter and Madame Maxime - were cut out simply because they could be or because they didn't know which characters and events would become important in later installments. Considering they didn't mention the backstory where Crouch smuggled Jr. out of Azkaban by swapping him with his dying wife, it's more likely that in the film's continuity, Jr. managed to escape on his own, and Sr. didn't find out until he recognized one of his weird facial twitches as Moody. (This still doesn't make as much sense, considering the last installment dealt with a prisoner's escape that received mass coverage immediately afterward.) Harry and Ron's falling out being kept in adds a bit to Ron's character and the friendship between them, SPEW would've been hard to kickstart due to the absence of the Crouchs' house-elf Winky, and I've never really minded Dumbledore being so intense after Harry's name was drawn from the goblet. He's just been entered into a dangerous competition that he's obviously not prepared to survive - why ''wouldn't'' anyone be upset about that?
10th May '17 1:00:17 PM doctorwho29
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

**The Goblet of Fire is very old and mysterious. The Magical Contract was probably an ancient art that can't be used today for one reason or another. Also we don't know what would have happened to Harry. It's probably that contracts that would end in death can't be done by proxy and the Triwizard Tournament isn't an instant death sentence and the Cup was made in times where such contests were seen differently. As for the insane Triwizard Plan, it probably was insane. Vodly was being dramatic and addicted to complexity at the moment and Wormtail even tried to point out other ways of doing things. However, even if it was a mad plan it still worked. Oh and as for the Cup taking Harry out of the maze, I still like the DD made an original Portkey idea. Yes Crouch confessed but maybe he didn't know about the original Portkey enchantment. DD planned a dramatic surprise end to the Tournament.
10th May '17 12:25:59 PM doctorwho29
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** To get back to Harry and the Thestrals, yes he had is eyes closed for the actual moment of death but he was with Cedric before and after. He saw Cedric's body lying on the ground, touched the body, took it back with him, didn't want to leave it, ect. Harry was certainly seeing and experiencing the effects of death. He also had traumatic dreams about Cedric all summer. In fact this might explain why he didn't see them at the end of year four. He would have had he actually seen the moment of death (then again maybe not as he had a lot on his mind and may not of noticed the Thestrals in any event) but the grieving and trauma process brought them in visibility slowly.
5th May '17 5:44:09 AM Sharlee
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Voldemort needed Harry in the Tournment because there was NO OTHER way Harry's "Death" could be seen as an 'accident'. I mean remember Dumbledore at the school is watching over Harry..so it would look suspicious if Harry disappered and came back dead if he picked up a quill or something from Moody's desk. Also DD Didn't know..how many times do people need to say "The real Moody would never have removed you from my sight."
** *Sigh* Right, Harrry was under DD's constat and vigilant eye, unlike, naturally, when he was in that dangerous labyrinth, during the final stage of the Tournament in which his participation was orchestrated by an unkown party, so whatever their inention was, this would be their last chance to acieve it... [[SarcasmMode Nah, why would DD want to keep an eye on him THERE?]] ''How many times do people need to say...'' - as many as they feel like it. It won't change the fact that there was a concealed return portkey in the Cup, meaning he had to know.

to:

** Voldemort needed Harry in the Tournment Tournament because there was NO OTHER way Harry's "Death" could be seen as an 'accident'. I mean remember Dumbledore at the school is watching over Harry..so it would look suspicious if Harry disappered disappeared and came back dead if he picked up a quill or something from Moody's desk. Also DD Didn't know..how many times do people need to say "The real Moody would never have removed you from my sight."
** *Sigh* Right, Harrry Harry was under DD's constat constant and vigilant eye, unlike, naturally, when he was in that dangerous labyrinth, during the final stage of the Tournament in which his participation was orchestrated by an unkown unknown party, so whatever their inention intention was, this would be their last chance to acieve achieve it... [[SarcasmMode Nah, why would DD want to keep an eye on him THERE?]] ''How many times do people need to say...'' - as many as they feel like it. It won't change the fact that there was a concealed return portkey in the Cup, meaning he had to know.





to:

\n** Considering Voldemort strongly hints at his intention to ''feed Harry's corpse to Nagini'' after he's killed the boy, the presumption that he'd planned to send Harry's body back seems unjustified.
4th May '17 8:11:53 PM Jayalaw
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** And why exactly could it "could"? It was there on guard/escort duty only. I'm honestly flummoxed that Fudge's career even survived that night, after he'd either brought a murderous uncontrollable monster ''into a school'' for no good reason, or he assassinated a suspect and a valuable witness to several murders! All under an equally luaghable excuse of "He was crazy so no big loss! What's that? He might've had accomplicies or other hostages? He might be complicit to other crimes? The entire "serve Voldemort" story could've been planted into his mind to cover his real motives and REAL masterminds, who, by the way, would be very interested in silencing him? Oh, don't be absurd, that only happens in stories for grown ups!" And if that wasn't enough, Fudge was too stupid to even put up the classic "killed during an escape attempt" sharade! He was practically begging to be gutted alive, and yet DD just bends over and lets this jellyfish-brain chase him out of the Ministery!

to:

** And why exactly could it "could"? It was there on guard/escort duty only. I'm honestly flummoxed that Fudge's career even survived that night, after he'd either brought a murderous uncontrollable monster ''into a school'' for no good reason, or he assassinated a suspect and a valuable witness to several murders! All under an equally luaghable laughable excuse of "He was crazy so no big loss! What's that? He might've had accomplicies or other hostages? He might be complicit to other crimes? The entire "serve Voldemort" story could've been planted into his mind to cover his real motives and REAL masterminds, who, by the way, would be very interested in silencing him? Oh, don't be absurd, that only happens in stories for grown ups!" And if that wasn't enough, Fudge was too stupid to even put up the classic "killed during an escape attempt" sharade! He was practically begging to be gutted alive, and yet DD just bends over and lets this jellyfish-brain chase him out of the Ministery!



** It could be that Rita would have preferred time in Azkaban to retracting her stories, for those reasons. Also Hermione, for all her brains, is a fourteen year old girl. She caught Rita on the windowsill in the hospital wing a mere weeks before school lets out. She couldn't have foreseen that Fudge would be stupid and desperate enough to trust ''Umbridge'' over Harry Potter, or that Umbridge would be the type to send Dementors after Harry and oppress them at school.



** Frank has also been suspected of the Riddles' murder, even though there was no evidence, and he mentions another possible suspect. Dot at the Hanged Man would hypothesize that Frank went away after the guilt plagued him, and perhaps "did himself him" out of shame. Dumbledore mentions that the Muggle newspapers have reported on Frank's disappearance, but they don't have any leads.



* ''Goblet of Fire'' is my favorite book, and I've combed through it but I can't find actual evidence. It's theorized that Barty Crouch Jr. probably was involved and was lying at his trial, when he begged not to be sent to the Dementors, but when he's confessing to Dumbledore, he doesn't sound like a seasoned Death Eater. He sounds like a recently converted newbie, as Galadriel Waters has pointed out, which could have easily happened in Azkaban with the Lestranges nearby and the Dementors' influence. Spending about thirteen years under the Imperius Curse also can't do well for one's sanity, since only a few months of Crouch Sr. being Imperiused turns him into a rambling wreck. It's been discussed on this page that he may have been groomed to be the perfect spy, hence how his denials were ExactWords at his trial, hence why the Lestranges didn't denounce him. On the other hand, if his fear was real, it could have easily been NotWhatISignedUpFor and the Lestranges recruited him in the hopes of taking down Crouch Sr. after the Dark Lord vanished, by destroying Crouch Sr.'s reputation. There is also that according to Crouch Sr.'s rambles to Harry and Krum that his son was a brilliant student, who had done him proud while the first War was going on and all; this makes his involvement with torturing the Longbottoms more suspect. Also, Sirius mentions that given that Crouch fired Winky for being at the wrong place at the wrong time, it's possible Crouch Jr. might have been in a similar situation. Even Dumbledore admits that Crouch Jr. may not have been involved? Dumbledore doesn't understandably ask Crouch Jr. after giving the latter Veritaserum, since his bigger concern is how the frick Crouch Jr. escaped Azkaban, faked his death and impersonated Moody. Is there any evidence one way or the other? On Pottermore maybe?

to:

* ''Goblet of Fire'' is my favorite Harry POtter book, and I've combed through it but I can't find actual evidence. It's theorized that Barty Crouch Jr. probably was involved and was lying at his trial, when he begged not to be sent to the Dementors, but when he's confessing to Dumbledore, he doesn't sound like a seasoned Death Eater. He sounds like a recently converted newbie, as Galadriel Waters has pointed out, which could have easily happened in Azkaban with the Lestranges nearby and the Dementors' influence. Spending about thirteen years under the Imperius Curse also can't do well for one's sanity, since only a few months of Crouch Sr. being Imperiused turns him into a rambling wreck. It's been discussed on this page that he may have been groomed to be the perfect spy, hence how his denials were ExactWords at his trial, hence why the Lestranges didn't denounce him. On the other hand, if his fear was real, it could have easily been NotWhatISignedUpFor and the Lestranges recruited him in the hopes of taking down Crouch Sr. after the Dark Lord vanished, by destroying Crouch Sr.'s reputation. There is also that according to Crouch Sr.'s rambles to Harry and Krum that his son was a brilliant student, who had done him proud while the first War was going on and all; this makes his involvement with torturing the Longbottoms more suspect. Also, Sirius mentions that given that Crouch fired Winky for being at the wrong place at the wrong time, it's possible Crouch Jr. might have been in a similar situation. Even Dumbledore admits that Crouch Jr. may not have been involved? Dumbledore doesn't understandably ask Crouch Jr. after giving the latter Veritaserum, since his bigger concern is how the frick Crouch Jr. escaped Azkaban, faked his death and impersonated Moody. Is there any evidence one way or the other? On Pottermore maybe?
4th May '17 6:30:37 PM Jayalaw
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

[[folder: Did Canon Ever Say if Crouch Jr. Was Involved with Actually Torturing the Longbottoms?]]

* ''Goblet of Fire'' is my favorite book, and I've combed through it but I can't find actual evidence. It's theorized that Barty Crouch Jr. probably was involved and was lying at his trial, when he begged not to be sent to the Dementors, but when he's confessing to Dumbledore, he doesn't sound like a seasoned Death Eater. He sounds like a recently converted newbie, as Galadriel Waters has pointed out, which could have easily happened in Azkaban with the Lestranges nearby and the Dementors' influence. Spending about thirteen years under the Imperius Curse also can't do well for one's sanity, since only a few months of Crouch Sr. being Imperiused turns him into a rambling wreck. It's been discussed on this page that he may have been groomed to be the perfect spy, hence how his denials were ExactWords at his trial, hence why the Lestranges didn't denounce him. On the other hand, if his fear was real, it could have easily been NotWhatISignedUpFor and the Lestranges recruited him in the hopes of taking down Crouch Sr. after the Dark Lord vanished, by destroying Crouch Sr.'s reputation. There is also that according to Crouch Sr.'s rambles to Harry and Krum that his son was a brilliant student, who had done him proud while the first War was going on and all; this makes his involvement with torturing the Longbottoms more suspect. Also, Sirius mentions that given that Crouch fired Winky for being at the wrong place at the wrong time, it's possible Crouch Jr. might have been in a similar situation. Even Dumbledore admits that Crouch Jr. may not have been involved? Dumbledore doesn't understandably ask Crouch Jr. after giving the latter Veritaserum, since his bigger concern is how the frick Crouch Jr. escaped Azkaban, faked his death and impersonated Moody. Is there any evidence one way or the other? On Pottermore maybe?
[[/folder]]
3rd May '17 6:02:31 AM Sharlee
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

** Even regular, good-natured horses can accidentally hurt humans who come too near their hooves unexpectedly. The teachers surely take care that none of the students get too close to the thestrals, knowing that most of them won't perceive the potential danger.
3rd May '17 5:58:41 AM Sharlee
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Seeing creepy bat-winged horses that nobody else does, like hearing a voice hissing in the Hogwarts corridors, isn't exactly something you go around boasting about among casual acquaintences. Neither is something as personal as whether you saw your mother die when you were little. Sure, if ''Ron or Hermione'' had attended a grandparent's funeral or whatever, Harry would've probably heard all about them well before Year Five, but it just happened that neither of his close personal confidantes had seen death before either.
30th Apr '17 1:25:32 PM Technicolourtardis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


Can we take just a moment to talk about the plot holes the movie created, and how nobody ever talks about them because they're not obvious if you read the book? What purpose did Rita serve in the movie? She stopped appearing after the First Task. What was the point of the Hagrid/Maxime relationship if she was going to be cut from future movies? Why the hell was the article about Hermione playing Krum and Harry moved to a point when she had no established ties to Krum? Why did Harry never tell Dumbledore about finding Crouch Sr? Why was Fudge at the school when Harry goes to tell Dumbledore about him even though, in the book, Fudge was there BECAUSE Crouch disappeared? How did Crouch Jr survive the whole "dying in Azkaban" thing and why was it never brought up that Crouch Jr should have been dead? Did Crouch Jr lose his soul in the movie? If not, why wasn't he with the other Death Eaters in later movies? Why did Crouch Jr even join the Death Eaters if his father wasn't as big of a jerkass in the movie? Was there a point to Harry and Ron not speaking for a month in the movie? The time between was so short in the film you never really saw how isolated Harry had become and Rita wasn't there to make things worse in the movie- it was pointless drama in the movie. Why did Dumbledore absolutely flip his lid with Harry post-Gobletspew? Speaking of spew, why was SPEW cut considering how much Kloves loves to give Hermione screentime? I'm not looking to have things explained to me according to the books- I've read them. I want to know why the movie was written to make no sense.

to:

* Can we take just a moment to talk about the plot holes the movie created, and how nobody ever talks about them because they're not obvious if you read the book? book since your brain fills in the blanks? What purpose did Rita serve in the movie? She stopped appearing after the First Task. What was the point of the Hagrid/Maxime relationship if she was going to be cut from future movies? Why the hell was the article about Hermione playing Krum and Harry moved to a point when she had no established ties to Krum? Why did Harry never tell Dumbledore about finding Crouch Sr? Why was Fudge at the school when Harry goes to tell Dumbledore about him even though, in the book, Fudge was there BECAUSE Crouch disappeared? How did Crouch Jr survive the whole "dying in Azkaban" thing and why was it never brought up that Crouch Jr should have been dead? Did Crouch Jr lose his soul in the movie? If not, why wasn't he with the other Death Eaters in later movies? Why did Crouch Jr even join the Death Eaters if his father wasn't as big of a jerkass in the movie? Was there a point to Harry and Ron not speaking for a month in the movie? The time between was so short in the film you never really saw how isolated Harry had become and Rita wasn't there to make things worse in the movie- it was pointless drama in the movie. Why did Dumbledore absolutely flip his lid with Harry post-Gobletspew? Speaking of spew, why was SPEW cut considering how much Kloves loves to give Hermione screentime? I'm not looking to have things explained to me according to the books- I've read them. I want to know why the movie was written to make no sense. Rita's article about the LoveTriangle is the most bizarre change- for whatever reason, it comes immediately after the First Task.
[[/folder]]
30th Apr '17 1:22:59 PM Technicolourtardis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[/folder]]

to:

[[/folder]][[/folder]]

[[folder: The Movie in general]]
Can we take just a moment to talk about the plot holes the movie created, and how nobody ever talks about them because they're not obvious if you read the book? What purpose did Rita serve in the movie? She stopped appearing after the First Task. What was the point of the Hagrid/Maxime relationship if she was going to be cut from future movies? Why the hell was the article about Hermione playing Krum and Harry moved to a point when she had no established ties to Krum? Why did Harry never tell Dumbledore about finding Crouch Sr? Why was Fudge at the school when Harry goes to tell Dumbledore about him even though, in the book, Fudge was there BECAUSE Crouch disappeared? How did Crouch Jr survive the whole "dying in Azkaban" thing and why was it never brought up that Crouch Jr should have been dead? Did Crouch Jr lose his soul in the movie? If not, why wasn't he with the other Death Eaters in later movies? Why did Crouch Jr even join the Death Eaters if his father wasn't as big of a jerkass in the movie? Was there a point to Harry and Ron not speaking for a month in the movie? The time between was so short in the film you never really saw how isolated Harry had become and Rita wasn't there to make things worse in the movie- it was pointless drama in the movie. Why did Dumbledore absolutely flip his lid with Harry post-Gobletspew? Speaking of spew, why was SPEW cut considering how much Kloves loves to give Hermione screentime? I'm not looking to have things explained to me according to the books- I've read them. I want to know why the movie was written to make no sense.
This list shows the last 10 events of 956. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.HarryPotterAndTheGobletOfFire