History Headscratchers / Frasier

31st May '16 11:02:23 AM bombadilla
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* Are the show's writer's aware of the differences between psychology and psychiatry? As far as I can see Niles and Frasier don't have any patients with serious mental disorders. What they seem to do is life-coaching and psychotherapy without prescribing medication, which I believe is more of a psychologist's job. It's hard to believe that a snob like Frasier would throw years of medical training away for a job that someone with a BA could do (not that I think psychologists are in any way less scientific or less valuable than psychiatrists, I just think that's how Frasier would react). Even if we accept that Frasier wanted to get away from psychiatry and the KACL was ready to employ such a mis-qualified employee, how come Niles, who has his own private practice, doesn't seem to have any psychotic patients either?

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* Are the show's writer's writers aware of the differences between psychology and psychiatry? As far as I can see Niles and Frasier don't have any patients with serious mental disorders. What they seem to do is life-coaching and psychotherapy without prescribing medication, which I believe is more of a psychologist's job. It's hard to believe that a snob like Frasier would throw years of medical training away for a job that someone with a BA could do (not that I think psychologists are in any way less scientific or less valuable than psychiatrists, I just think that's how Frasier would react). Even if we accept that Frasier wanted to get away from psychiatry and the KACL was ready to employ such a mis-qualified employee, how come Niles, who has his own private practice, doesn't seem to have any psychotic patients either?
31st May '16 10:58:48 AM bombadilla
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24th Apr '16 9:33:04 AM DoctorNemesis
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** Describing Frasier as 'killing' this woman is, at the very least, rather histrionic. It's not like he's locking her in a dungeon and depriving her of her medication, or taking it from her while she's on the floor gasping for breath or anything; all she has to do to get it back is knock on the door, apologise, and stop taking embarrassing pictures of him. Since it's her own fault she's lost her medication in the first place, this is hardly that unreasonable.

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** Describing Frasier as 'killing' this woman is, at the very least, rather histrionic. It's not like he's locking her in a dungeon and depriving her of her medication, or taking it from her while she's on the floor gasping for breath or anything; all she has to do to get it back is knock on the door, apologise, and promise to stop taking embarrassing pictures of him. Since it's her own fault she's lost her medication in the first place, this is hardly that unreasonable.



[[folder: Fraiser not knowing a French accent]]

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*** The two aren't mutually exclusive. Niles runs his own private practice, so he can pick and choose his patients and how he organises his practice as he sees fit; he can block off some days / some hours per day purely for rote consultation work as described above and then use the rest of his time for more in-depth consultations with his own patients.
13th Apr '16 8:29:36 AM Jessicastarbunny
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[[folder: Accents]]
* Daphne and family are meant to be from Manchester right?
No one I mean NO ONE speaks with anything remotely close to a Mancunian accent, In fact theres no accent outside of the southeast of england from any english character in the show.
To put this into perspective for American viewers its effectively like watching someone with a new England Accent playing someone from Texas or Alaska its possibly even worse.
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27th Mar '16 8:29:26 AM mlsmithca
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* How old is Frasier supposed to be, anyway? Kelsey Grammer was born in 1955, which makes him 29 as of his first appearance on ''Series/{{Cheers}}''. Assuming Frasier is the same age or a little older, the numbers don't quite match. He's supposed to hold several degrees, and on the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frasier_Crane Other Wiki]], it seems to be handwaved as Frasier was some kind of "child prodigy," but there's no indication that he had anything other than a normal school run. So that means he attended college from 1973-1977, and medical school from 1977-1981. That means he was doing his residency (1981-1985, because a residency is four years after medical school) when he met Diane, as he started on Cheers in 1984. It commonly takes 4-7 years to earn a PhD and anywhere from 4-10 years to earn an Ed.D, and no mention is ever made of Frasier attending school, so when did he earn all these degrees? This in between his work and his whirlwind social life. It's also complicated by the fact that [[PlayingGertrude John Mahoney]] is only 14 years older than Kelsey Grammer (born 1940)!
** Found it! Sort of, although the question isn't quite answered. He states he's 41 in a first season episode (which aired in March 1994). That puts his birthdate in 1952. So, Bachelor's 1970-1974, med school 1974-1978, and 4-7 years to do his PhD. If he finished his PhD in 1982 or 1984, the show does not give any indication when he did the second doctorate.

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* How old is Frasier supposed to be, anyway? Kelsey Grammer was born in 1955, which makes him 29 as of his first appearance on ''Series/{{Cheers}}''. Assuming Frasier is the same age or a little older, the numbers don't quite match. He's supposed to hold several degrees, and on the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frasier_Crane Other Wiki]], it seems to be handwaved as Frasier was some kind of "child prodigy," but there's no indication that he had anything other than a normal school run. So that means he attended college from 1973-1977, and medical school from 1977-1981. That means he was doing his residency (1981-1985, because a residency is four years after medical school) when he met Diane, as he started on Cheers in 1984. It commonly takes 4-7 years to earn a PhD [=PhD=] and anywhere from 4-10 years to earn an Ed.D, and no mention is ever made of Frasier attending school, so when did he earn all these degrees? This in between his work and his whirlwind social life. It's also complicated by the fact that [[PlayingGertrude John Mahoney]] is only 14 years older than Kelsey Grammer (born 1940)!
** Found it! Sort of, although the question isn't quite answered. He states he's 41 in a first season episode (which aired in March 1994). That puts his birthdate in 1952. So, Bachelor's 1970-1974, med school 1974-1978, and 4-7 years to do his PhD. [=PhD=]. If he finished his PhD [=PhD=] in 1982 or 1984, the show does not give any indication when he did the second doctorate.
17th Feb '16 8:20:26 PM Octoya
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** Daphne's behavior in Murder Most Maris and related episodes seemed more out of left field for me because of how she reacted to Maris' contacting Niles in the first place. Not because I thought it was strange that she would view Maris with contempt after seeing everything that she put Niles through, but upon reviewings I found it very odd how she seemed to take Maris' involvement so ''personally'', as if they had had a specific history together. She even describes it as "after everything she put ''us'' through", but really Maris has never put ''them'' through anything, only Niles. It honestly felt as though the writers had forgotten that ''Mel'' was the woman who put so much strain on Daphne and Niles' relationship, not Maris. If it had been Mel who was accused of murder and demanding support from Niles, her anger at Niles--not concern that he's being pushed around by his ex-wife again, but ''offended anger''--wouldn't be as out of left field.
6th Feb '16 8:26:24 PM nombretomado
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*** In fact, Frasier is shown owning one of those first generation, suitcase-sized portable phones in a season 7 episode of ''{{Cheers}}'' that aired in 1988. So it wouldn't be out of character for Frasier to own a cell phone in 1993, and if Frasier has one, [[SiblingRivalry you can be sure]] Niles has one too.

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*** In fact, Frasier is shown owning one of those first generation, suitcase-sized portable phones in a season 7 episode of ''{{Cheers}}'' ''Series/{{Cheers}}'' that aired in 1988. So it wouldn't be out of character for Frasier to own a cell phone in 1993, and if Frasier has one, [[SiblingRivalry you can be sure]] Niles has one too.



** It seems Niles and Frasier both trained to be psychiatrists (there are references in the show to their days in med school), but later on specialized in psychotherapy, specifically psychoanalysis (it's often mentioned that Frasier is a Freudian and Niles a Jungian). I think this is partially because writers don't really know the difference between psychiatry and psychotherapy, but it can also be justified for both characters. In ''{{Cheers}}'' Frasier is seen treating patients with mental disorders, and he was originally introduced as a doctor Diane fell in love with while she was in a psychiatric hospital. However, Frasier is generally portrayed as a vain man, so it would make sense that he, given the opportunity, would trade a medical career for one that provides him fame and popularity. As for KACL hiring him, the bosses there probably don't know the difference between psychiatry and psychology either, so Frasier's credentials wouldn't really matter to him as long as he has a good radio personality. As for Niles, his patients are usually portrayed as neurotic upper-class folks similar to himself. Providing therapy for such people is probably a more lucrative and tidy job than treating patients with serious mental disorders, and it would certainly fit Niles' personality to choose the former option instead of the latter.

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** It seems Niles and Frasier both trained to be psychiatrists (there are references in the show to their days in med school), but later on specialized in psychotherapy, specifically psychoanalysis (it's often mentioned that Frasier is a Freudian and Niles a Jungian). I think this is partially because writers don't really know the difference between psychiatry and psychotherapy, but it can also be justified for both characters. In ''{{Cheers}}'' ''Series/{{Cheers}}'' Frasier is seen treating patients with mental disorders, and he was originally introduced as a doctor Diane fell in love with while she was in a psychiatric hospital. However, Frasier is generally portrayed as a vain man, so it would make sense that he, given the opportunity, would trade a medical career for one that provides him fame and popularity. As for KACL hiring him, the bosses there probably don't know the difference between psychiatry and psychology either, so Frasier's credentials wouldn't really matter to him as long as he has a good radio personality. As for Niles, his patients are usually portrayed as neurotic upper-class folks similar to himself. Providing therapy for such people is probably a more lucrative and tidy job than treating patients with serious mental disorders, and it would certainly fit Niles' personality to choose the former option instead of the latter.



* How old is Frasier supposed to be, anyway? Kelsey Grammer was born in 1955, which makes him 29 as of his first appearance on Series/{{Cheers}}. Assuming Frasier is the same age or a little older, the numbers don't quite match. He's supposed to hold several degrees, and on the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frasier_Crane Other Wiki]], it seems to be handwaved as Frasier was some kind of "child prodigy," but there's no indication that he had anything other than a normal school run. So that means he attended college from 1973-1977, and medical school from 1977-1981. That means he was doing his residency (1981-1985, because a residency is four years after medical school) when he met Diane, as he started on Cheers in 1984. It commonly takes 4-7 years to earn a PhD and anywhere from 4-10 years to earn an Ed.D, and no mention is ever made of Frasier attending school, so when did he earn all these degrees? This in between his work and his whirlwind social life. It's also complicated by the fact that [[PlayingGertrude John Mahoney]] is only 14 years older than Kelsey Grammer (born 1940)!

to:

* How old is Frasier supposed to be, anyway? Kelsey Grammer was born in 1955, which makes him 29 as of his first appearance on Series/{{Cheers}}.''Series/{{Cheers}}''. Assuming Frasier is the same age or a little older, the numbers don't quite match. He's supposed to hold several degrees, and on the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frasier_Crane Other Wiki]], it seems to be handwaved as Frasier was some kind of "child prodigy," but there's no indication that he had anything other than a normal school run. So that means he attended college from 1973-1977, and medical school from 1977-1981. That means he was doing his residency (1981-1985, because a residency is four years after medical school) when he met Diane, as he started on Cheers in 1984. It commonly takes 4-7 years to earn a PhD and anywhere from 4-10 years to earn an Ed.D, and no mention is ever made of Frasier attending school, so when did he earn all these degrees? This in between his work and his whirlwind social life. It's also complicated by the fact that [[PlayingGertrude John Mahoney]] is only 14 years older than Kelsey Grammer (born 1940)!



* As the series begins, Frasier wears his hair the same way he did in {{Cheers}}. However, in the Season 3 finale, when Frasier thinks back to when he first came to work at KACL--he has the short-cut hairstyle he first adopts...at the beginning of Season 3.

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* As the series begins, Frasier wears his hair the same way he did in {{Cheers}}.''Series/{{Cheers}}''. However, in the Season 3 finale, when Frasier thinks back to when he first came to work at KACL--he has the short-cut hairstyle he first adopts...at the beginning of Season 3.
30th Dec '15 8:19:10 PM lorgskyegon
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** Much of his opposition also comes from Niles trying to start something with Daphne before he has gotten over being dumped by Maris or because he doesn't want him approaching Daphne while she's on the rebound from her latest boyfriend. He doesn't want either of them hurt from a failed attempt. Plus a failed attempt would prevent a happy relationship from starting in the future when they were both ready for it.
30th Dec '15 9:38:54 AM lorgskyegon
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**** Remember also that a number of the theme shows we see were utter failures, with either no one calling in or with people calling in who didn't have the problem that was sought. Frasier knows they fail more often than not and doesn't want to put up with them again.
27th Dec '15 2:47:45 PM louisXVI
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*** In a later episode, mentioned in more detail below, the idea that Maris has a complicated eating disorder is fleshed out in more detail, with Niles noting that she was "chubby as a child" with her thinness a life-long struggle. It's also unclear to what extent some of the more bizarre suggestions of Maris' extreme thinness "she once sprained her wrist putting too much dip on a cracker" are either mean-spirited exaggerations and jokes on the part of other characters, who clearly find her vanity and hangups exasperating, or manifestations of Niles' gullibility. A woman who thinks a chocolate allergy entitles her to park in the handicapped spot is probably not entirely credible when she claims her spine is becoming compressed from wearing large earrings.

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*** In a later episode, mentioned in more detail below, the idea that Maris has a complicated eating disorder is fleshed out in more detail, with Niles noting that she was "chubby as a child" with her thinness a life-long struggle. It's also unclear to what extent some of the more bizarre suggestions of Maris' extreme thinness "she once sprained her wrist putting too much dip on a cracker" are either mean-spirited exaggerations and jokes on the part of other characters, who clearly find her vanity and hangups exasperating, or manifestations of Niles' gullibility. A Maris also portrayed as being enormously paranoid, ignorant, and prone to fits of hysterical hypochondria. In other words, a woman who thinks a chocolate allergy entitles her to park in the handicapped spot is probably not entirely credible when she claims her spine is becoming compressed from wearing large earrings.
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