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** Also, it's doubtful that all the fal'Cie died instantly when Orphan did. Even if the fal'Cie ''did'' wish to die and be free, they still had their Focus: to watch after and protect Cocoon. So it's highly likely that, during the fall, many of them used their last moments to protect the people of Cocoon however they could.[[/folder]]

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** Also, it's doubtful that all the fal'Cie died instantly when Orphan did. Even if the fal'Cie ''did'' wish to die and be free, they still had their Focus: to watch after and protect Cocoon. So it's highly likely that, during the fall, many of them used their last moments to protect the people of Cocoon however they could.could.
** According to "Final Fantasy XIII Gaiden Shōsetsu: Yumemiru Mayu, Akatsuki ni Otsu," many Cocoon citizens took refugee in special gravitation control facilities that were hacked and tweaked that helped protect them from the falling and the sudden decceleration of Cocoon.
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* '''What I understand:''' Bart arranges for a Pulse Fal'Cie to give the heroes a focus to destroy Cocoon, since he cannot do so himself as a Cocoon Fal'Cie. This would result in Orphan's death depowering Eden, resulting in a ColonyDrop so extreme that the number of deaths would force open Etro's gate and allow access to "the Maker". '''What I do not understand:''' what then? Bart's plan also hinges on his own death to give a body to Orphan, so anything beyond this point is outside of his control. Who exactly is the Maker (Bhunivelze?) and what is the purpose of forcing open Etro's gate?[[/folder]]

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* '''What I understand:''' Bart arranges for a Pulse Fal'Cie to give the heroes a focus to destroy Cocoon, since he cannot do so himself as a Cocoon Fal'Cie. This would result in Orphan's death depowering Eden, resulting in a ColonyDrop so extreme that the number of deaths would force open Etro's gate and allow access to "the Maker". '''What I do not understand:''' what then? Bart's plan also hinges on his own death to give a body to Orphan, so anything beyond this point is outside of his control. Who exactly is the Maker (Bhunivelze?) (Bhunivelze?), and what is do Bart and the purpose of forcing open other Fal'Cie hope to accomplish when Etro's gate?[[/folder]]gate is forced open?[[/folder]]

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What I understand: Bart arranges for a Pulse Fal'Cie to give the heroes a focus to destroy Cocoon, since he cannot do so himself as a Cocoon Fal'Cie. This would result in Orphan's death depowering Eden, resulting in a ColonyDrop so extreme that the number of deaths would force open Etro's gate and allow access to "the Maker".

What I do not understand: what then? Bart's plan also hinges on his own death to give a body to Orphan, so anything beyond this point is outside of his control. Who exactly is the Maker (Bhunivelze?) and what is the purpose of forcing open Etro's gate?[[/folder]]

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What * '''What I understand: understand:''' Bart arranges for a Pulse Fal'Cie to give the heroes a focus to destroy Cocoon, since he cannot do so himself as a Cocoon Fal'Cie. This would result in Orphan's death depowering Eden, resulting in a ColonyDrop so extreme that the number of deaths would force open Etro's gate and allow access to "the Maker".

What
Maker". '''What I do not understand: understand:''' what then? Bart's plan also hinges on his own death to give a body to Orphan, so anything beyond this point is outside of his control. Who exactly is the Maker (Bhunivelze?) and what is the purpose of forcing open Etro's gate?[[/folder]]
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[[folder: Barthandelus's endgame]]
What I understand: Bart arranges for a Pulse Fal'Cie to give the heroes a focus to destroy Cocoon, since he cannot do so himself as a Cocoon Fal'Cie. This would result in Orphan's death depowering Eden, resulting in a ColonyDrop so extreme that the number of deaths would force open Etro's gate and allow access to "the Maker".

What I do not understand: what then? Bart's plan also hinges on his own death to give a body to Orphan, so anything beyond this point is outside of his control. Who exactly is the Maker (Bhunivelze?) and what is the purpose of forcing open Etro's gate?[[/folder]]
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** Everything that Anima has done for the past five hundred years has been related to Ragnarok - making Fang and Vanille l'Cie, branding Serah to bring people to Anima to make them l'Cie and branding the party members to try to turn them into l'Cie. Anima seems purely [[Main/IncrediblyLamePun focused]] on Ragnorak. Barthandelus was just counting on Anima not giving up on the goal of destroying Cocoon.

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** Everything that Anima has done for the past five hundred years has been related to Ragnarok - making Fang and Vanille l'Cie, branding Serah to bring people to Anima to make them l'Cie and branding the party members to try to turn them into l'Cie. Anima seems purely [[Main/IncrediblyLamePun [[{{Pun}} focused]] on Ragnorak. Barthandelus was just counting on Anima not giving up on the goal of destroying Cocoon.



*** Actually, Lighting is blaming Snow so she doesn't have to face her own guilt and jealousy. Guilt because she refused to take Serah seriously when Serah tried to tell her that she'd been turned into a L'Cie, and jealousy because she's afraid that Serah won't love or need her anymore now that she has Snow. She's fixating on Snow failing to save Serah so she doesn't have to face the fact that she refused to help until it was too late.
** Hope also seems to ignore the fact that Nora voluntarily went with Snow, and then saved his life (again, out of her own volition), and that Snow was trying to save HER life right afterwards. It was probably a bit hard to tell for Hope with everything going on, but surely he saw Snow grabbing her and trying to stop her from falling. Even though Hope couldn't tell that she was the one who let go, it was still pretty obvious that he was trying to save her.

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*** Actually, Lighting is blaming Snow Snow, so she doesn't have to face her own guilt and jealousy. Guilt because she refused to take Serah seriously when Serah tried to tell her that she'd been turned into a L'Cie, and jealousy because she's afraid that Serah won't love or need her anymore now that she has Snow. She's fixating on Snow failing to save Serah Serah, so she doesn't have to face the fact that she refused to help until it was too late.
** Hope also seems to ignore the fact that Nora voluntarily went with Snow, and then saved his life (again, out of her own volition), and that Snow was trying to save HER life right afterwards. It was probably a bit hard to tell for Hope with everything going on, but surely surely, he saw Snow grabbing her and trying to stop her from falling. Even though Hope couldn't tell that she was the one who let go, it was still pretty obvious that he was trying to save her.
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** [[AIIsACrapshoot Well most obviously, there's a trope for that.]] The fal'Cie are artificial life that were created to fulfill specific purposes and there are many plausible explanations for why they are the way they are. IMO, the likely explanation is that the gods INTENDED to periodically replace them before they could get too crazy, but then [[HaveYouSeenMyGod they all disappeared without explanation]], leaving the fal'Cie in place much, MUCH longer than ever intended. Maybe they thought that humanity would advance enough to replace them or not need them anymore, and the fal'Cie are essentially punishing them for not becoming self-sufficient.
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** Analect 8 again: Cocoon fal'Cie are of Fell Lindzei's line, yet that did not spare them. They were betrayed all the same; ''left orphans when their Succubus fled this earthly realm.'' And again, why would Lindzei want to bring The Maker back? Lindzei is supposed to be an evil, or at least an uncaring and incredibly devious god. It would be like a mixture of Satan and Loki wiping out the earth to make God start performing miracles again. I think Eden was intended to be TheMan, Bart would be TheManBehindTheMan, and Orphan would be TheEvilGenius. At some point, Bart and Orphan had some form of BSOD approximately around the time of the War of Transgression. At least Barthandelus acting on his own makes sense and has clearly defined motivations. Lindzei just being ambiguously evil and genocidal and going to extreme lengths to manipulate the party just seems a bit of a stretch.

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** Analect 8 again: Cocoon fal'Cie are of Fell Lindzei's line, yet that did not spare them. They were betrayed all the same; ''left orphans when their Succubus fled this earthly realm.'' And again, why would Lindzei want to bring The Maker back? Lindzei is supposed to be an evil, or at least an uncaring and incredibly devious god. It would be like a mixture of Satan and Loki wiping out the earth to make God start performing miracles again. I think Eden was intended to be TheMan, "The Man", Bart would be TheManBehindTheMan, and Orphan would be TheEvilGenius. At some point, Bart and Orphan had some form of BSOD approximately around the time of the War of Transgression. At least Barthandelus acting on his own makes sense and has clearly defined motivations. Lindzei just being ambiguously evil and genocidal and going to extreme lengths to manipulate the party just seems a bit of a stretch.
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** The Oretoises aren't ''that'' big of a problem for your average person living on Pulse. Yes, they're insanely powerful, but the plus side is that they don't attack people unless they're provoked. And unless you have CP or VendorTrash to grind, WhoWouldBeStupidEnough to pick a fight with a turtle that's bigger than most houses?[[/folder]]

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** The Oretoises aren't ''that'' big of a problem for your average person living on Pulse. Yes, they're insanely powerful, but the plus side is that they don't attack people unless they're provoked. And unless you have CP or VendorTrash pr components to grind, WhoWouldBeStupidEnough to pick a fight with a turtle that's bigger than most houses?[[/folder]]
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Wouldn't HAVE, not wouldn't OF.


** Serah's focus is never really made clear. I'd say that Vanille was just trying to cheer Snow up and that Barthandelus was telling the truth. She wouldn't of turned to crystal if her focus was to become Ragnarok.

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** Serah's focus is never really made clear. I'd say that Vanille was just trying to cheer Snow up and that Barthandelus was telling the truth. She wouldn't of have turned to crystal if her focus was to become Ragnarok.
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[[folder:And This Is Why You're Not Supposed To Release A Program In An Alpha Build]]
* So let me get this straight. The gods created the fal'Cie with Foci to guide them in their specified roles and to help out humanity, yet also made them emotionally and cognitively complex enough that they could come to resent humanity to the point of wanting to kill themselves? Why did they make the fal'Cie capable of becoming bored of doing the same tasks over and over and over again for countless millennia, let alone develop any hatred of humanity? Especially when some of the fal'Cie don't really seem all that sentient, such as the power plant Kujata. Furthermore, why make the l'Cie system so convoluted? The gods gave their creations the ability to reach out and recruit humans to help them with specific tasks, yet make it so said humans can't even get clear and concise orders on what they are supposed to do, let alone have a meaningful reward for completing their Focus other than being entombed in a crystal forever. What kind of morons would set things up like this?
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