History Headscratchers / FinalFantasyXIII

30th Dec '15 2:22:23 PM phantomreader42
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** Another item under "why was the public buying it", the stated purpose of the Purge was to get rid of people who might have been exposed to a Pulse fal'cie, on the grounds that any of them could have therefore been turned into Pulse l'cie, who everyone is terrified of because Sanctum has been spreading propaganda about how Pulse is [[FireAndBrimstoneHell Hell]] and any Pulse l'cie will be enemies of all Cocoon and murder everyone (there are a lot of lies in there, but that's what Sanctum is saying and the people believe it). But every l'cie has a visible brand. ''Every single one of them''. It might be hidden under clothing, but it IS always there, and these brands are apparently common knowledge. So how did NOBODY ever realize that if they were REALLY trying to get rid of Pulse l'cie, they could have just '''looked for the brands!'''?

*** No, that's Thor.
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*** No, that's Thor.Thor, but Thor is Odin's son.
3rd Oct '15 4:18:21 AM catmuto
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* * Why does Hope not battle and obtain his Eidolon after he finally stops blaming Snow for his mothers death and accepts she is gone? Given what the story tells us about Eidolons appearing in moments of despair or indecision to put L'Cie out of their misery, and Hope has just lost his reason to even continue attempting to survive; AS WELL as the fact this is the conclusion of a story and character development arc that has been building up for the majority of the game thus far; why the developers choose not to have his Eidolon battle here and simply threw it into the end of a rushed character arc about Hope believing himself to be useless that lasts all of five minutes later in the game is simply ludicrous.
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* * Why does Hope not battle and obtain his Eidolon after he finally stops blaming Snow for his mothers death and accepts she is gone? Given what the story tells us about Eidolons appearing in moments of despair or indecision to put L'Cie out of their misery, and Hope has just lost his reason to even continue attempting to survive; AS WELL as the fact this is the conclusion of a story and character development arc that has been building up for the majority of the game thus far; why the developers choose not to have his Eidolon battle here and simply threw it into the end of a rushed character arc about Hope believing himself to be useless that lasts all of five minutes later in the game is simply ludicrous. ludicrous. ** Hope was not suffering from indecision after he confronted Snow. Aside from burying the hatchet with Snow, Hope also got to have a heart-to-heart talk with his father shortly after. When his home was attacked, his father's trust in him gave Hope courage and strength to keep going and doing things. It wasn't until they were on Pulse that they ''lost'' all sorts of goal. Hope's Eidolon appears after Hope's brand advanced a good chunk, which terrifies him. He's suddenly confronted with the idea that their time for completing their Focus is getting smaller and smaller. It scares him and makes him realize that, including his previous behavior, he was somewhat a load to several characters (most noticeably Light in Chapter 4, though both got past that) and he worries even more.
21st Sep '15 6:23:00 PM nombretomado
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*** But Odin ''did'' start out in the 6th century or so as a sort of nightmare, horse-riding, spear-wielding deity before his myth changed over time and he became the Odin that we all know and love. What is Odin in the game? A sort of nightmarish guy that can transform into a horse, and can give Lightning a spear when she rides him. It's still a [[ShoutOut shout out to Odin]], and because this factor of his myth is little known, the story writers are also [[ShownTheirWork showing their work.]] [[AllThereInTheManual It's all there]] [[NorseMythology in the mythology.]]
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*** But Odin ''did'' start out in the 6th century or so as a sort of nightmare, horse-riding, spear-wielding deity before his myth changed over time and he became the Odin that we all know and love. What is Odin in the game? A sort of nightmarish guy that can transform into a horse, and can give Lightning a spear when she rides him. It's still a [[ShoutOut shout out to Odin]], and because this factor of his myth is little known, the story writers are also [[ShownTheirWork showing their work.]] [[AllThereInTheManual It's all there]] [[NorseMythology [[Myth/NorseMythology in the mythology.]]
21st Jul '15 8:58:26 AM Animakuro
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*** It's a lot simpler then all of that though. The reason that Orphan fights back is the same reason Barthandelus has to get a Pulse Fal'cie to brand the main party: the Fal'cie are essentially robots and as part of their programming to care for Cocoon, and as Orphan is essential for the continued existance of Cocoon, it is in his programming that [[ICannotSelfTerminate he cannot allow himself to die]] and also MUST defend himself against any attacker. This is why Barthandelus spends the duration of the game essentially sending the party on one long grinding mission: He is ensuring that when they face Orphan, they have the power to defeat the Fal'cie who MUST defend himself. Whether the intention is they must survive long enough in combat to unleash Ragnarok or that they must be strong enough to kill Orphan without Ragnarok if they fail to unleash it is still unclear, but why Orphan actually defends himself against the party is clearly because he has no choice.
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*** It's a lot simpler then all of that though. The reason that Orphan fights back is the same reason Barthandelus has to get a Pulse Fal'cie to brand the main party: the Fal'cie are essentially robots and as part of their programming to care for Cocoon, and as they cannot take any actions against the its well-being or the well-being of its citizens. As Orphan is essential for the continued existance of Cocoon, it is in his programming that [[ICannotSelfTerminate he cannot allow himself to die]] and also MUST defend himself against any attacker. This is why Barthandelus spends the duration of the game essentially sending the party on one long grinding mission: He is ensuring that when they face Orphan, they have the power to defeat the Fal'cie who MUST defend himself. Whether the intention is they must survive long enough in combat to unleash Ragnarok or that they must be strong enough to kill Orphan without Ragnarok if they fail to unleash it is still unclear, but why Orphan actually defends himself against the party is clearly because he has no choice.
12th Jul '15 12:08:23 PM Animakuro
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Rewriting an early headscrather.
* Keeping on topic with the above Headscratcher, why does Hope not fight his Eidolon after his attempt to kill Snow and finally forgiving him. At that point, Hope has last the one thing that kept him going (Revenge) and in his own eyes, doesn't have much to live for. Surely what would actually have helped his character development and make him a much better received character would be that Alexander appears on that point, and with Snow being heavily injured, Hope then fights Alexander single-handily to protect Snow. Hope being a Ravager, a Medic and A Synergist, he's one of the best party members for a one on one fight.
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* Keeping on topic with the above Headscratcher, why * Why does Hope not fight battle and obtain his Eidolon after his attempt to kill Snow and he finally forgiving him. At that point, stops blaming Snow for his mothers death and accepts she is gone? Given what the story tells us about Eidolons appearing in moments of despair or indecision to put L'Cie out of their misery, and Hope has last just lost his reason to even continue attempting to survive; AS WELL as the one thing that kept him going (Revenge) fact this is the conclusion of a story and in his own eyes, doesn't have much to live for. Surely what would actually have helped his character development arc that has been building up for the majority of the game thus far; why the developers choose not to have his Eidolon battle here and make him simply threw it into the end of a much better received rushed character would arc about Hope believing himself to be useless that Alexander appears on that point, and with Snow being heavily injured, Hope then fights Alexander single-handily to protect Snow. Hope being a Ravager, a Medic and A Synergist, he's one lasts all of five minutes later in the best party members for a one on one fight.game is simply ludicrous.

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* Keeping on topic with the above Headscratcher, why does Hope not fight his Eidolon after his attempt to kill Snow and finally forgiving him. At that point, Hope has last the one thing that kept him going (Revenge) and in his own eyes, doesn't have much to live for. Surely what would actually have helped his character development and make him a much better received character would be that Alexander appears on that point, and with Snow being heavily injured, Hope then fights Alexander single-handily to protect Snow. Hope being a Ravager, a Medic and A Synergist, he's one of the best party members for a one on one fight.
12th Jul '15 11:53:19 AM Animakuro
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Added response to a headscratcher
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\n*** It's a lot simpler then all of that though. The reason that Orphan fights back is the same reason Barthandelus has to get a Pulse Fal'cie to brand the main party: the Fal'cie are essentially robots and as part of their programming to care for Cocoon, and as Orphan is essential for the continued existance of Cocoon, it is in his programming that [[ICannotSelfTerminate he cannot allow himself to die]] and also MUST defend himself against any attacker. This is why Barthandelus spends the duration of the game essentially sending the party on one long grinding mission: He is ensuring that when they face Orphan, they have the power to defeat the Fal'cie who MUST defend himself. Whether the intention is they must survive long enough in combat to unleash Ragnarok or that they must be strong enough to kill Orphan without Ragnarok if they fail to unleash it is still unclear, but why Orphan actually defends himself against the party is clearly because he has no choice.
11th Mar '15 4:09:50 PM Nyperold
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Added DiffLines:
** Because it's the most nest-like thing on Cocoon, outside of actual nests.
15th Dec '14 1:53:19 PM nombretomado
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* Related to the above two questions: what exactly is the relationship between the Cocoon and the Pulse fal'Cie? We know that each made the other out to be the enemies of humanity, and themselves as its protectors, as propoganda for the humans in their respective domains. But is there a grain of truth to this; do the two groups of fal'Cie have some animosity, or at least distrust, of one another? Or were they always in it together to call back the Maker? Support for the former is that the Pulse fal'Cie never seem to have cared as much about the plan as the Cocoon fal'Cie, and that [[spoiler: in FinalFantasyXIII2, after the fall, the Pulse fal'Cie proceed to mind their own business, not bother humanity, and not show any signs of reengaging with the plan]]. But it is quite unclear how this relationship has proceeded, and what if any communication there's been between the two groups.
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* Related to the above two questions: what exactly is the relationship between the Cocoon and the Pulse fal'Cie? We know that each made the other out to be the enemies of humanity, and themselves as its protectors, as propoganda for the humans in their respective domains. But is there a grain of truth to this; do the two groups of fal'Cie have some animosity, or at least distrust, of one another? Or were they always in it together to call back the Maker? Support for the former is that the Pulse fal'Cie never seem to have cared as much about the plan as the Cocoon fal'Cie, and that [[spoiler: in FinalFantasyXIII2, ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII2'', after the fall, the Pulse fal'Cie proceed to mind their own business, not bother humanity, and not show any signs of reengaging with the plan]]. But it is quite unclear how this relationship has proceeded, and what if any communication there's been between the two groups.

*** This still makes it a terrible plan - it's entirely dependant that the Pulse fal'Cie is going to give "destroy Cocoon" out as its Focus. For example, let's say that "defeat Barthandalus' plans" was the Focus in question. In regards to both the characters and Bart, nothing changes - they still do exactly what they do, he still lies about everything, and the Focus is just as fulfilled at the end. Great for the protagonists, but that basically means that Bart's plans are doomed to failure from the outset. His best case scenario is that he can trick them into doing what he wants and they go Cie'th because they screwed up what to do... and even that plan is heavily dependant on the characters not realizing that Bart lies so much. What bugs me isn't that Bart's plan is insane or evil... it's just [[IdiotBall incredibly stupid]], by far the most stupid of any ''FinalFantasy'' villain. *** Keep in mind what he has to work with. He can't directly attack Orphan or Cocoon; he has to rely on substitutes. Nor can he ''make'' those substitures himself; Cocoon I'cie are bound by the same rules as him. Only something opositional will work, like something from Pulse and he can't very well send a mission there. "Pulse is Hell" after all; no one would go there especially not to bring something back. After the War of Trangression, there are no more humans on Pulse and the Fal'Cie are more interested in terraforming than anything else. All he has to work with are the I'cie created by Anima, IE the main party, but they are ''not strong enough'' to defeat Orphan who is '''compelled''' to defend himself for the same reason that Bart can not attack him; they cannot disobey their Focus of providing for Cocoon. So he sets up a game long gauntlet to toughen them up. After fighting him the first time, he decides they're still not strong enough so he sends them to the Arc to train, ''which the characters explicitly realize''.
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*** This still makes it a terrible plan - it's entirely dependant that the Pulse fal'Cie is going to give "destroy Cocoon" out as its Focus. For example, let's say that "defeat Barthandalus' plans" was the Focus in question. In regards to both the characters and Bart, nothing changes - they still do exactly what they do, he still lies about everything, and the Focus is just as fulfilled at the end. Great for the protagonists, but that basically means that Bart's plans are doomed to failure from the outset. His best case scenario is that he can trick them into doing what he wants and they go Cie'th because they screwed up what to do... and even that plan is heavily dependant on the characters not realizing that Bart lies so much. What bugs me isn't that Bart's plan is insane or evil... it's just [[IdiotBall incredibly stupid]], by far the most stupid of any ''FinalFantasy'' ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'' villain. *** Keep in mind what he has to work with. He can't directly attack Orphan or Cocoon; he has to rely on substitutes. Nor can he ''make'' those substitures substitutes himself; Cocoon I'cie are bound by the same rules as him. Only something opositional oppositional will work, like something from Pulse and he can't very well send a mission there. "Pulse is Hell" after all; no one would go there especially not to bring something back. After the War of Trangression, there are no more humans on Pulse and the Fal'Cie are more interested in terraforming than anything else. All he has to work with are the I'cie created by Anima, IE the main party, but they are ''not strong enough'' to defeat Orphan who is '''compelled''' to defend himself for the same reason that Bart can not attack him; they cannot disobey their Focus of providing for Cocoon. So he sets up a game long gauntlet to toughen them up. After fighting him the first time, he decides they're still not strong enough so he sends them to the Arc to train, ''which the characters explicitly realize''.
23rd Oct '14 2:09:36 PM thatsnumberwang
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** This Troper wonders how many times it has to be mentioned that [[RealityIsUnrealistic Hope is a young teenager, in a situation way in over his head, saw his mother die and just naturally grieves for her and chooses to focus his irrational emotions onto the closest target that he blames for this situation (Snow) so he won't go insane and fall apart instantly]]?
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** This Troper wonders how many times it has to be mentioned that [[RealityIsUnrealistic Hope is a young teenager, in a situation way in over his head, saw his mother die and just naturally grieves for her and chooses to focus his irrational emotions onto the closest target that he blames for this situation (Snow) so he won't go insane and fall apart instantly]]? instantly]]? *** Whilst this is indeed true, I think the reason why Hope is such a BaseBreaker is not because he is a whiny kid, but because he is a whiny kid ''scaled up to eleven.'' My go to example of how to pull off a distressed teenager is Ellie from ''VideoGame/TheLastOfUs.'' She too has been through some absolutely unspeakable crap (including losing a Mother Figure before her eyes) and yet she doesn't feel the need to remind you about it by moaning and procrastinating in literally every scene she is in, and thus is a hell of a lot more bearable to the player because of it. There does come a point where ''It's Realistic!'' becomes counterproductive.
13th Oct '14 12:28:18 PM catmuto
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** This Troper wonders how many times it has to be mentioned that [[RealisticIsUnrealistic Hope is a young teenager, in a situation way in over his head, saw his mother die and just naturally grieves for her and chooses to focus his irrational emotions onto the closest target that he blames for this situation (Snow) so he won't go insane and fall apart instantly]]?
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** This Troper wonders how many times it has to be mentioned that [[RealisticIsUnrealistic [[RealityIsUnrealistic Hope is a young teenager, in a situation way in over his head, saw his mother die and just naturally grieves for her and chooses to focus his irrational emotions onto the closest target that he blames for this situation (Snow) so he won't go insane and fall apart instantly]]?
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