History Headscratchers / FinalFantasyXIII

21st May '16 9:48:40 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Has it actually been ''confirmed'' that over half of the game's content was cut out or is that just a rumor being thrown around because some PS3 fanboys are mad about the game also being on 360?

to:

* Has it actually been ''confirmed'' that over half of the game's content was cut out or is that just a rumor being thrown around because some PS3 [=PS3=] fanboys are mad about the game also being on 360?
28th Mar '16 11:40:55 AM MrDeath
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** That's actually not true; ALL Fal'Cie have the ability to turn humans into I'Cie, and since the Focus is picked by the Fal'Cie who branded them, Barthandelus simply would have to do so personally rather than from afar. Recall Cid Raines, who's Focus was to guide Lightning and the others along the path to Cocoon's destruction (and then later serve as a puppet who would help incite conflict among Cocoon's population as planned), and he was branded by Barthandelus, a Sanctum fal'Cie - if he could give Sanctum I'Cie a Focus that helped end Cocoon despite his job, Barthandelus could easily do the same with other humans if the party failed, no matter how he had to do it. So long as Ragnarok arrived to end their existence, it mattered not how it happened, why things occurred in the order they did, or other such details - Pulse I'Cie are easiest, no doubts about that, but any I'Cie can be used it seems.

to:

*** That's actually not true; ALL Fal'Cie have the ability to turn humans into I'Cie, LíCie, and since the Focus is picked by the Fal'Cie who branded them, Barthandelus simply would have to do so personally rather than from afar. Recall Cid Raines, who's Focus was to guide Lightning and the others along the path to Cocoon's destruction (and then later serve as a puppet who would help incite conflict among Cocoon's population as planned), and he was branded by Barthandelus, a Sanctum fal'Cie - if he could give Sanctum I'Cie LíCie a Focus that helped end Cocoon despite his job, Barthandelus could easily do the same with other humans if the party failed, no matter how he had to do it. So long as Ragnarok arrived to end their existence, it mattered not how it happened, why things occurred in the order they did, or other such details - Pulse I'Cie LíCie are easiest, no doubts about that, but any I'Cie LíCie can be used it seems.



*** Keep in mind what he has to work with. He can't directly attack Orphan or Cocoon; he has to rely on substitutes. Nor can he ''make'' those substitutes himself; Cocoon I'cie are bound by the same rules as him. Only something oppositional will work, like something from Pulse and he can't very well send a mission there. "Pulse is Hell" after all; no one would go there especially not to bring something back. After the War of Trangression, there are no more humans on Pulse and the Fal'Cie are more interested in terraforming than anything else. All he has to work with are the I'cie created by Anima, IE the main party, but they are ''not strong enough'' to defeat Orphan who is '''compelled''' to defend himself for the same reason that Bart can not attack him; they cannot disobey their Focus of providing for Cocoon. So he sets up a game long gauntlet to toughen them up. After fighting him the first time, he decides they're still not strong enough so he sends them to the Arc to train, ''which the characters explicitly realize''.

to:

*** Keep in mind what he has to work with. He can't directly attack Orphan or Cocoon; he has to rely on substitutes. Nor can he ''make'' those substitutes himself; Cocoon I'cie Lície are bound by the same rules as him. Only something oppositional will work, like something from Pulse and he can't very well send a mission there. "Pulse is Hell" after all; no one would go there especially not to bring something back. After the War of Trangression, there are no more humans on Pulse and the Fal'Cie are more interested in terraforming than anything else. All he has to work with are the I'cie Lície created by Anima, IE the main party, but they are ''not strong enough'' to defeat Orphan who is '''compelled''' to defend himself for the same reason that Bart can not attack him; they cannot disobey their Focus of providing for Cocoon. So he sets up a game long gauntlet to toughen them up. After fighting him the first time, he decides they're still not strong enough so he sends them to the Arc to train, ''which the characters explicitly realize''.



*** Umm, it wouldn't exactly be that easy. Ignoring for the moment the rampant Pulse paranoia and fear, asking any person suspected of being a Pulse I'Cie to check for brands would mean checking 'everywhere', just to make sure - Serah concealed her arm brand with bandages, Lightning had hers straight on her chest, while Vanille's lay high on her outer thigh, ie not places that are commonly looked at in public. Doing anything of said nature would ultimately turn the populace on each other in a paranoia/fear frenzy (having been groomed for such a purpose)... and by the time of the Purge, it wasn't yet at a stage where it'd be appropriate for such turmoil, not to the fal'Cie anyway. In the eyes of the military/people anyway, they've been secretly conditioned to believe the Purge will solve the problem, and it's as simple as that; the rational thought of sending 'only' the actual I'Cie away never crossed their minds, because anything Pulse is tainted to them.

to:

*** Umm, it wouldn't exactly be that easy. Ignoring for the moment the rampant Pulse paranoia and fear, asking any person suspected of being a Pulse I'Cie LíCie to check for brands would mean checking 'everywhere', just to make sure - Serah concealed her arm brand with bandages, Lightning had hers straight on her chest, while Vanille's lay high on her outer thigh, ie not places that are commonly looked at in public. Doing anything of said nature would ultimately turn the populace on each other in a paranoia/fear frenzy (having been groomed for such a purpose)... and by the time of the Purge, it wasn't yet at a stage where it'd be appropriate for such turmoil, not to the fal'Cie anyway. In the eyes of the military/people anyway, they've been secretly conditioned to believe the Purge will solve the problem, and it's as simple as that; the rational thought of sending 'only' the actual I'Cie LíCie away never crossed their minds, because anything Pulse is tainted to them.
28th Mar '16 10:26:11 AM omegafire17
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** At least in some cases (peoples' opinions included), being realistic is actually more bearable than the lack of said thing. Those who don't mind Hope's grief probably think some variation of that, and aren't annoyed in the slightest by his whining not just because it's understandable (feeling for it isn't hard), but because it's a good thing to let it out, and don't let the whining itself change those sympathetic feelings. And thus 'it's counterproductive to be this realistic' doesn't apply to that side of the fence, overall anyway.
21st Mar '16 3:11:50 PM omegafire17
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** Umm, it wouldn't exactly be that easy. Ignoring for the moment the rampant Pulse paranoia and fear, asking any person suspected of being a Pulse I'Cie to check for brands would mean checking 'everywhere', just to make sure - Serah concealed her arm brand with bandages, Lightning had hers straight on her chest, while Vanille's lay high on her outer thigh, ie not places that are commonly looked at in public. Doing anything of said nature would ultimately turn the populace on each other in a paranoia/fear frenzy (having been groomed for such a purpose)... and by the time of the Purge, it wasn't yet at a stage where it'd be appropriate for such turmoil, not to the fal'Cie anyway. In the eyes of the military/people anyway, they've been secretly conditioned to believe the Purge will solve the problem, and it's as simple as that; the rational thought of sending 'only' the actual I'Cie away never crossed their minds, because anything Pulse is tainted to them.
21st Mar '16 2:22:42 PM omegafire17
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** That's actually not true; ALL Fal'Cie have the ability to turn humans into I'Cie, and since the Focus is picked by the Fal'Cie who branded them, Barthandelus simply would have to do so personally rather than from afar. Recall Cid Raines, who's Focus was to guide Lightning and the others along the path to Cocoon's destruction (and then later serve as a puppet who would help incite conflict among Cocoon's population as planned), and he was branded by Barthandelus, a Sanctum fal'Cie - if he could give Sanctum I'Cie a Focus that helped end Cocoon despite his job, Barthandelus could easily do the same with other humans if the party failed, no matter how he had to do it. So long as Ragnarok arrived to end their existence, it mattered not how it happened, why things occurred in the order they did, or other such details - Pulse I'Cie are easiest, no doubts about that, but any I'Cie can be used it seems.
30th Dec '15 2:22:23 PM phantomreader42
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Another item under "why was the public buying it", the stated purpose of the Purge was to get rid of people who might have been exposed to a Pulse fal'cie, on the grounds that any of them could have therefore been turned into Pulse l'cie, who everyone is terrified of because Sanctum has been spreading propaganda about how Pulse is [[FireAndBrimstoneHell Hell]] and any Pulse l'cie will be enemies of all Cocoon and murder everyone (there are a lot of lies in there, but that's what Sanctum is saying and the people believe it). But every l'cie has a visible brand. ''Every single one of them''. It might be hidden under clothing, but it IS always there, and these brands are apparently common knowledge. So how did NOBODY ever realize that if they were REALLY trying to get rid of Pulse l'cie, they could have just '''looked for the brands!'''?



*** No, that's Thor.

to:

*** No, that's Thor.Thor, but Thor is Odin's son.
3rd Oct '15 4:18:21 AM catmuto
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* * Why does Hope not battle and obtain his Eidolon after he finally stops blaming Snow for his mothers death and accepts she is gone? Given what the story tells us about Eidolons appearing in moments of despair or indecision to put L'Cie out of their misery, and Hope has just lost his reason to even continue attempting to survive; AS WELL as the fact this is the conclusion of a story and character development arc that has been building up for the majority of the game thus far; why the developers choose not to have his Eidolon battle here and simply threw it into the end of a rushed character arc about Hope believing himself to be useless that lasts all of five minutes later in the game is simply ludicrous.

to:

* * Why does Hope not battle and obtain his Eidolon after he finally stops blaming Snow for his mothers death and accepts she is gone? Given what the story tells us about Eidolons appearing in moments of despair or indecision to put L'Cie out of their misery, and Hope has just lost his reason to even continue attempting to survive; AS WELL as the fact this is the conclusion of a story and character development arc that has been building up for the majority of the game thus far; why the developers choose not to have his Eidolon battle here and simply threw it into the end of a rushed character arc about Hope believing himself to be useless that lasts all of five minutes later in the game is simply ludicrous. ludicrous.
** Hope was not suffering from indecision after he confronted Snow. Aside from burying the hatchet with Snow, Hope also got to have a heart-to-heart talk with his father shortly after. When his home was attacked, his father's trust in him gave Hope courage and strength to keep going and doing things. It wasn't until they were on Pulse that they ''lost'' all sorts of goal. Hope's Eidolon appears after Hope's brand advanced a good chunk, which terrifies him. He's suddenly confronted with the idea that their time for completing their Focus is getting smaller and smaller. It scares him and makes him realize that, including his previous behavior, he was somewhat a load to several characters (most noticeably Light in Chapter 4, though both got past that) and he worries even more.
21st Sep '15 6:23:00 PM nombretomado
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** But Odin ''did'' start out in the 6th century or so as a sort of nightmare, horse-riding, spear-wielding deity before his myth changed over time and he became the Odin that we all know and love. What is Odin in the game? A sort of nightmarish guy that can transform into a horse, and can give Lightning a spear when she rides him. It's still a [[ShoutOut shout out to Odin]], and because this factor of his myth is little known, the story writers are also [[ShownTheirWork showing their work.]] [[AllThereInTheManual It's all there]] [[NorseMythology in the mythology.]]

to:

*** But Odin ''did'' start out in the 6th century or so as a sort of nightmare, horse-riding, spear-wielding deity before his myth changed over time and he became the Odin that we all know and love. What is Odin in the game? A sort of nightmarish guy that can transform into a horse, and can give Lightning a spear when she rides him. It's still a [[ShoutOut shout out to Odin]], and because this factor of his myth is little known, the story writers are also [[ShownTheirWork showing their work.]] [[AllThereInTheManual It's all there]] [[NorseMythology [[Myth/NorseMythology in the mythology.]]
21st Jul '15 8:58:26 AM Animakuro
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** It's a lot simpler then all of that though. The reason that Orphan fights back is the same reason Barthandelus has to get a Pulse Fal'cie to brand the main party: the Fal'cie are essentially robots and as part of their programming to care for Cocoon, and as Orphan is essential for the continued existance of Cocoon, it is in his programming that [[ICannotSelfTerminate he cannot allow himself to die]] and also MUST defend himself against any attacker. This is why Barthandelus spends the duration of the game essentially sending the party on one long grinding mission: He is ensuring that when they face Orphan, they have the power to defeat the Fal'cie who MUST defend himself. Whether the intention is they must survive long enough in combat to unleash Ragnarok or that they must be strong enough to kill Orphan without Ragnarok if they fail to unleash it is still unclear, but why Orphan actually defends himself against the party is clearly because he has no choice.


to:

*** It's a lot simpler then all of that though. The reason that Orphan fights back is the same reason Barthandelus has to get a Pulse Fal'cie to brand the main party: the Fal'cie are essentially robots and as part of their programming to care for Cocoon, and as they cannot take any actions against the its well-being or the well-being of its citizens. As Orphan is essential for the continued existance of Cocoon, it is in his programming that [[ICannotSelfTerminate he cannot allow himself to die]] and also MUST defend himself against any attacker. This is why Barthandelus spends the duration of the game essentially sending the party on one long grinding mission: He is ensuring that when they face Orphan, they have the power to defeat the Fal'cie who MUST defend himself. Whether the intention is they must survive long enough in combat to unleash Ragnarok or that they must be strong enough to kill Orphan without Ragnarok if they fail to unleash it is still unclear, but why Orphan actually defends himself against the party is clearly because he has no choice.

12th Jul '15 12:08:23 PM Animakuro
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Keeping on topic with the above Headscratcher, why does Hope not fight his Eidolon after his attempt to kill Snow and finally forgiving him. At that point, Hope has last the one thing that kept him going (Revenge) and in his own eyes, doesn't have much to live for. Surely what would actually have helped his character development and make him a much better received character would be that Alexander appears on that point, and with Snow being heavily injured, Hope then fights Alexander single-handily to protect Snow. Hope being a Ravager, a Medic and A Synergist, he's one of the best party members for a one on one fight.

to:

* Keeping on topic with the above Headscratcher, why * Why does Hope not fight battle and obtain his Eidolon after his attempt to kill Snow and he finally forgiving him. At that point, stops blaming Snow for his mothers death and accepts she is gone? Given what the story tells us about Eidolons appearing in moments of despair or indecision to put L'Cie out of their misery, and Hope has last just lost his reason to even continue attempting to survive; AS WELL as the one thing that kept him going (Revenge) fact this is the conclusion of a story and in his own eyes, doesn't have much to live for. Surely what would actually have helped his character development arc that has been building up for the majority of the game thus far; why the developers choose not to have his Eidolon battle here and make him simply threw it into the end of a much better received rushed character would arc about Hope believing himself to be useless that Alexander appears on that point, and with Snow being heavily injured, Hope then fights Alexander single-handily to protect Snow. Hope being a Ravager, a Medic and A Synergist, he's one lasts all of five minutes later in the best party members for a one on one fight.game is simply ludicrous.


Added DiffLines:

This list shows the last 10 events of 234. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.FinalFantasyXIII