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*** Changed in 3E, they should be able now to learn Sidereal Styles.
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**** This does make sense with the Abyssals still having that power; Infernal Exaltations are far more changed than Abyssals, which are basically palette swapped Solars.
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*** Important point here; Lytek does NOT know "about the Great Curse." Lytek knows ''something'' is wrong with the Exaltations and he's not an idiot so he has connected that with Exalts going nuts but he hasn't read the Exalted core rulebook and knows that it's the death curse of the Neverborn designed to destroy the Exalted from the inside. As such he has no idea what the problem actually is or where it comes from. This naturally would make extremely nervous about taking any action relating to it, including telling the Exalted. What if he went to the Solars and told them something was up with their Exaltations and they said "We know, we did that ages ago for [insert terrifying reason here] and now you know you cannot be allowed to survive!" Or he tells them and only then discovers it it's actually a malfunctioning failsafe installed by Autochthon and telling them about it causes them all the explode, taking half of Creation with them. We know that's not going to happen but Lytek has no way to know. You can see why he might decide keeping it a secret and trying to fix it himself or at least figure it out himself was the wiser course of action.

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*** Important point here; Lytek does NOT know "about the Great Curse." Lytek knows ''something'' is wrong with the Exaltations and he's not an idiot so he has connected that with Exalts going nuts but he hasn't read the Exalted core rulebook and knows that it's the death curse of the Neverborn designed to destroy the Exalted from the inside. As such he has no idea what the problem actually is or where it comes from. This naturally would make extremely nervous about taking any action relating to it, including telling the Exalted. What if he went to the Solars and told them something was up with their Exaltations and they said "We know, we did that ages ago for [insert terrifying reason here] and now you know you cannot be allowed to survive!" Or he tells them and only then discovers it it's actually a malfunctioning failsafe installed by Autochthon and telling them about it causes them all the explode, taking half of Creation with them. We know that's not going to happen but Lytek has no way to know. You can see why he might decide keeping it a secret and trying to fix it himself or at least figure it out himself was the wiser course of action.
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*** Important point here; Lytek does NOT know "about the Great Curse." Lytek knows ''something'' is wrong with the Exaltations and he's not an idiot so he has connected that with Exalts going nuts but he hasn't read the Exalted core rulebook and knows that it's the death curse of the Neverborn designed to destroy the Exalted from the inside. As such he has no idea what the problem actually is or where it comes from. This naturally would make extremely nervous about taking any action relating to it, including telling the Exalted. What if he went to the Solars and told them something was up with their Exaltations and they said "We know, we did that ages ago for [insert terrifying reason here] and now you know you cannot be allowed to survive!" Or he tells them and only then discovers it it's actually a malfunctioning failsafe installed by Autochthon and telling them about it causes them all the explode, taking half of Creation with them. We know that's not going to happen but Lytek has no way to know. You can see why he might decide keeping it a secret and trying to fix it himself or at least figure it out himself was the wiser course of action.
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just putting this here for future editors

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'''As a Headscratchers subpage, all spoilers are unmarked [[Administrivia/SpoilersOff as per policy.]] Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.'''
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*** Primordials, Yozis, Neverborn and Incarnae are exceptions to Nara-O's purview (I guess, his own knowledge is excluded as well to avoid recursional paradoxes). However, Lytek knows about the curse and is hiding his attempts to fix it, AND it was known to Gorool and was a secret reason for his damnation, and there's enough different parts to count as two separate secrets about same thing. Also, I ''think'' Nara-O can get around the whole "tell anyone else or leave fate" loophole by simply writing down anything he deems important, but that would mean he knew from the beginning, and is complicit even more than Lytek. Which paints him in a rather unflattering light...
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**** Question was about Green Sun Princes. Sidereal akumas do not lose their SMA, otherwise they would be too easy to uncover.
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*** Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals says that the reason [=GSPs=] can't use SMA is because SMA requires a connection to Creation that [=GSPs=] just don't have. (it gets burned away by the vitriolic power of the tainted Exaltation, or something) A GSP using Black Mirror Shintai on a Sidereal gets to use SMA, though.
*** In Ink Monkeys, each type of Akuma gets a special Infernal Monster Charm that only they (and not GSP) can learn; the Sidereal one lets the character exist partially within fate, and allows for mixing IMS with Sidereal Martial Arts; it all but explicitly states that it allows them to regain access to their SMA.

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*** Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals says that the reason [=GSPs=] can't use SMA is because SMA requires a connection to Creation that [=GSPs=] just don't have. have (it gets burned away by the vitriolic power of the tainted Exaltation, or something) something). A GSP using Black Mirror Shintai on a Sidereal gets to use SMA, though.
*** In Ink Monkeys, each type of Akuma gets a special Infernal Monster Charm that only they (and not GSP) [=GSPs=]) can learn; the Sidereal one lets the character exist partially within fate, and allows for mixing IMS with Sidereal Martial Arts; it all but explicitly states that it allows them to regain access to their SMA.
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*** Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals says that the reason [[=GSPs=]] can't use SMA is because SMA requires a connection to Creation that [[=GSPs=]] just don't have. (it gets burned away by the vitriolic power of the tainted Exaltation, or something) A GSP using Black Mirror Shintai on a Sidereal gets to use SMA, though.

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*** Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals says that the reason [[=GSPs=]] [=GSPs=] can't use SMA is because SMA requires a connection to Creation that [[=GSPs=]] [=GSPs=] just don't have. (it gets burned away by the vitriolic power of the tainted Exaltation, or something) A GSP using Black Mirror Shintai on a Sidereal gets to use SMA, though.
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** {{Word of God}} is that Solars and Abyssals can learn them because their thing is (in part) excellence though Abilities, and since SMA is based on Martial Arts, it's part of their purview. Infernals, on the other hand, emulates the Yozi, and are unconnected to Abilities. The only reason they can practice normal styles when the Yozi can't even do that is because the sheer power of their exaltation.

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** {{Word of God}} is that Solars and Abyssals can learn them because their thing is (in part) excellence though Abilities, and since SMA is based on Martial Arts, it's part of their purview. Infernals, on the other hand, emulates emulate the Yozi, Yozis, and are unconnected to Abilities. The only reason they can practice normal styles when the Yozi Yozis can't even do that is because the sheer power of their exaltation.



*** Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals says that the reason GSPs can't use SMA is because SMA requires a connection to Creation that GSPs just don't have. (it gets burned away by the vitriolic power of the tainted Exaltation, or something) A GSP using Black Mirror Shintai on a Sidereal gets to use SMA, though.

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*** Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals says that the reason GSPs [[=GSPs=]] can't use SMA is because SMA requires a connection to Creation that GSPs [[=GSPs=]] just don't have. (it gets burned away by the vitriolic power of the tainted Exaltation, or something) A GSP using Black Mirror Shintai on a Sidereal gets to use SMA, though.
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** {{Word of God}} is that Solars and Abyssals can learn them because their thing is (in part) excellence though Abilities, and since SMA is based on Martial Arts, it's part of their purview. Infernals, on the other hand, emulates the Yozi, and are unconnected to abilities. The only reason they can practice normal styles when the Yozi can't even do that is because the sheer power of their exaltation.

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** {{Word of God}} is that Solars and Abyssals can learn them because their thing is (in part) excellence though Abilities, and since SMA is based on Martial Arts, it's part of their purview. Infernals, on the other hand, emulates the Yozi, and are unconnected to abilities.Abilities. The only reason they can practice normal styles when the Yozi can't even do that is because the sheer power of their exaltation.
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* Why Can't Infernals learn Sideral Martial arts? Solars can learn them with a tutor, Abyssals can learn them with a tutor, so why can't Infernals learn them with a tutor?

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* Why Can't can't Infernals learn Sideral Martial arts? Arts? Solars can learn them with a tutor, Abyssals can learn them with a tutor, so why can't Infernals learn them with a tutor?
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*** There ''might'' be an explanation for it: Since the primordial of time was killed, thus creating a linear time line for Creation, However, Hell is made up of the body of Malfeas, meaning it might exist out of the normal space-time of creation; hence, time travel is possible in Malfeas. Granted, I could be pretty wrong, but it's the only answer I can think of.

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*** There ''might'' be an explanation for it: Since the primordial of time was killed, thus creating a linear time line for Creation, However, Creation; however, Hell is made up of the body of Malfeas, meaning it might exist out of the normal space-time of creation; hence, time travel is possible in Malfeas. Granted, I could be pretty wrong, but it's the only answer I can think of.
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*** WordOfGod says that part is baffling to them to, and that they [[CanonDiscontinuity personally disregard it]].

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*** WordOfGod says that part is baffling to them to, too, and that they [[CanonDiscontinuity personally disregard it]].
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** The two halves of Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals were written by different authors with radically different takes on the Yozis, resulting in parts even in the same book that don't match up.
*** Yeah... Infernals is where things seemed to go all askew. A definite YMMV, but they don't quite seem to have settled back down or really gotten back to the essence of what the Yozis were. That said, the general consensus is still that Infernals was worth it.

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** The two halves of Manual ''Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals Infernals'' were written by different authors with radically different takes on the Yozis, resulting in parts even in the same book that don't match up.
*** Yeah... Infernals ''Infernals'' is where things seemed to go all askew. A definite YMMV, but they don't quite seem to have settled back down or really gotten back to the essence of what the Yozis were. That said, the general consensus is still that Infernals ''Infernals'' was worth it.
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*** Yeah... Infernals is where things seemed to go all askew. A definite YMMV, but they don't quite seem to have settled back down or really gotten back to the essence of what the Yozi's were. That said, the general consensus is still that Infernals was worth it.

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*** Yeah... Infernals is where things seemed to go all askew. A definite YMMV, but they don't quite seem to have settled back down or really gotten back to the essence of what the Yozi's Yozis were. That said, the general consensus is still that Infernals was worth it.
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* Why does everything Infernals-related flip flop on what the Yozi's are and their characterization?

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* Why does everything Infernals-related flip flop on what the Yozi's Yozis are and their characterization?

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*** Some of the books mention that both sides used temporal weaponry in the Primordial War, and that the Incarnae forbade time alteration on a cosmic level afterwards. The Yozis have a bit of leeway; between the delay Cecelyne provides, the way summoning works, and the fact that Yozis can bring back parts of themselves (all involve 5 days), I typically look at it as the Yozis are allowed 5 days to edit their metaphysical paperwork; if they haven't submitted it yet, they can come up with all sorts of nonsense.




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*** They probably assume most characters start at low Essence, where you'll only need the five dots. Until players reach Ess 6 (i.e. being around for 100 years in-game with 5-6 months off to meditate), they aren't going to need that sixth dot.




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*** Another point is that the gods are immortal, which makes a lot of them varying degrees of complacent. For Lytek, whose job is dealing with Primordial-level shenanigans, taking his time might seem like a reasonable option. In addition, he didn't seem overly upset about the way the First Age was going, so he might not view it as urgently as the mortals who might suffer from the acts of Exalts suffering from the Great Curse would.




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** The discrepancy comes from the fact that in real life, as you learn more languages, you become more accustomed to the rules of grammar and such. In the game, however, it's a bit of a mix between game mechanics forcing it to work like the others, but also reflects the fact that Linguistics affects how well you write in each of those languages (as long as you have Lore 1). A high Linguistics character doesn't just speak multiple languages, they are also excellent writers who can use the written word to sway people's hearts (it replaces Appearance when making written Social Attacks on both the attacker and defender sides).




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** As amusing as this would be, it can't be done; MBE doesn't let you use Martial Arts, and VWtG supplements a Martial Arts attack. Also the part about how you'd have to touch them is tough to do when neither of you have a body.


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***** In Ink Monkeys, each type of Akuma gets a special Infernal Monster Charm that only they (and not GSP) can learn; the Sidereal one lets the character exist partially within fate, and allows for mixing IMS with Sidereal Martial Arts; it all but explicitly states that it allows them to regain access to their SMA.
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*** Alchemical Exalted probably map to Hsien ("Eastern" changelings)
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** Additionally, the Dawn keyword was added, to let Dawn castes "poach" combat-related charms from other abilities on the cheap, reducing the strain on their favored ability choices somewhat.
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** Primordials built causality, permanent death, etc. Prior to those inventions, when something died it could resurrect itself, same for injuries, and, given how one can create mortals using shaping, presumably it was also possible to shape history into whatever was necessary. I mean, imagine somewhere in the Wyld, there's a version of lookshy that never had dragon blooded. Everything about it is perfectly consistent otherwise. Stabilize it, and you get a copy of Lookshy with internally consistent history that never had dragon blooded. With the right charms, you could probably replace it with Lookshy-actual. The point here is that in the Wyld, history is shapable because history is only narrative, and narratives can change. Primordials are like (colonies of unshaped) raksha, something like Ishvara whose legends turn in on themselves instead of out on the world. ''The point being'' that Primordials distort fate, need no protection against the Wyld (and indeed, need it to some poorly defined extent). Going back to the past in areas without external causality would be as simple as creating that version of Lookshy: make all the conditions necessary for the "past" to be "now" and you have travelled to the past. Time does not exist in Exalted the way it does in our world. Things change, but without something ensuring permanence, all change flows in every direction.
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answer Socialize vs. Presence&Performance Headscratcher

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** Socialize is more of an agressive skill, it comes up when you debate or attempt to overturn an opponent in social combat, so rallying a crowd or society to help overturn a ruler or something similar fits that purview. As for Mental influence coming up in Performance or Presence, frequently performances seek to invoke some form of mental or emotional reaction, as can Presence. for example, that movie that made you cry, or that person that terrifies people just by being there invoke a mental influence through one of those two skills.
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*** [=DotFA=] retcons and explains. Low Realm is not a bastard High Realm anymore, it's now one of the many languages that were created by the Exalted as part of the Creation-stabilizing magic (like all other directional languages). High Realm is a later bastard version of Old Realm (similar to Vulgar Latin in the Dark Ages).
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*** It's actually an incredibly common thing, IRL. During eras when education and literacy were uncommon there would be a wildl spoken (low) language, and a courtly (high) language spoken by the literate elite. There tended to be an illiterate, purely oral language spoken by the masses that developed naturally whereas the written language would be kept in a forced state of stability, since conventions and grammar that were hundreds of years old could be faithfully recorded and taught to younger generations. Think how latin split into the various romance languages or how ancient chinese calligraphy is still intelligible.

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*** It's actually an incredibly common thing, IRL. During eras when education and literacy were uncommon there would be a wildl wildly spoken (low) language, and a courtly (high) language spoken by the literate elite. There tended to be an illiterate, purely oral language spoken by the masses that developed naturally whereas the written language would be kept in a forced state of stability, since conventions and grammar that were hundreds of years old could be faithfully recorded and taught to younger generations. Think how latin split into the various romance languages or how ancient chinese calligraphy is still intelligible.
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*** It's actually an incredibly common thing, IRL. During eras when education and literacy were uncommon there would be a wildl spoken (low) language, and a courtly (high) language spoken by the literate elite. There tended to be an illiterate, purely oral language spoken by the masses that developed naturally whereas the written language would be kept in a forced state of stability, since conventions and grammar that were hundreds of years old could be faithfully recorded and taught to younger generations. Think how latin split into the various romance languages or how ancient chinese calligraphy is still intelligible.
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**** Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals says that the reason GSPs can't use SMA is because SMA requires a connection to Creation that GSPs just don't have. (it gets burned away by the vitriolic power of the tainted Exaltation, or something) A GSP using Black Mirror Shintai on a Sidereal gets to use SMA, though.
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***Okay, that make sense.(Note to self, make expensive essence 8 or higher homebrew charm to let infernal exalts learn SMA with tutor.)
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** {{Word of God}} is that Solars and Abyssals can learn them because their thing is (in part) excellence though Abilities, and since SMA is based on Martial Arts, it's part of their purview. Infernals, on the other hand, emulates the Yozi, and are unconnected to abilities. The only reason they can practice normal styles when the Yozi can't even do that is because the sheer power of their exaltation.

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