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** Why wouldn't they? Goku is so much more powerful in this series than every other member of the cast that they're completely irrelevant. Goku even outright states that if his Super Saiyan 4 can't do it then nothing can at one point. It's definitely a result of pushing Goku so hard as the protagonist in GT, but the fact is aside from Vegeta when he ascends to SSJ4 himself they might as well all take a nap.

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** Why wouldn't they? Goku is so much more powerful in this series than every other member of the cast that they're completely irrelevant. Goku even outright states that if his Super Saiyan 4 can't do it then nothing can at one point. It's definitely a result of pushing Goku so hard as the protagonist in GT, but the fact is aside from Vegeta when he ascends to SSJ4 [=SSJ4=] himself they might as well all take a nap.
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** And that's not very consistent either. Base Goku can defeat Cell with the audacity of riding Frieza's disks like a surfboard, but can't resist when he's frozen in ice and relies on natural body heat to melt it. Yeah...now we've seen everything.

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** And that's not very consistent either. Base Goku can defeat Cell with the audacity of riding Frieza's disks like a surfboard, surfboard but can't resist when he's frozen in ice and relies on natural body heat to melt it. Yeah...now we've seen everything.



** Except Android 17 is technically a cyborg not an android so unless this "box of scraps"(which they some how manage to pull out of nowhere or somehow purchased in hell of all places ) comes with a human body that is identical to that of 17. or some of 17's DNA with a cloning machine attached. There is no way in hell they could have made the 17 copy.
** [[IncrediblyLamePun No way in hell?]] Obviously they couldn't have made a cyborg, but it's much more likely the Hell 17 was a complete machine, built to look like and fuse with the original. Doesn't explain WHERE they got the parts from, but at least this is slightly more plausible.

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** Except Android 17 is technically a cyborg not an android so unless this "box of scraps"(which they some how somehow manage to pull out of nowhere or somehow purchased in hell of all places ) places) comes with a human body that is identical to that of 17. or some of 17's DNA with a cloning machine attached. There is no way in hell they could have made the 17 copy.copies.
** [[IncrediblyLamePun [[{{Pun}} No way in hell?]] Obviously Obviously, they couldn't have made a cyborg, but it's much more likely the Hell 17 was a complete machine, built to look like and fuse with the original. Doesn't explain WHERE they got the parts from, but at least this is slightly more plausible.
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Would HAVE, not would of.


* After fighting Goku for numerous episodes as a Great Ape, Baby just leaves Vegeta's body, gets on a ship, tries to make an escape, and then gets blasted into the sun by Goku. The thing about that is not only is it anti-climatic, it also subverts what Baby as a character was doing up to the point. Instead of running away he would have instead realized Goku was stronger than his current host and through some underhanded means try to acquire his body as he had with Goten, Gohan, and Vegeta. And even if he knew that wouldn't work, his hatred for the Saiyans was too great for him to just leave. Really his character would of at least tried to blow himself up or something.

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* After fighting Goku for numerous episodes as a Great Ape, Baby just leaves Vegeta's body, gets on a ship, tries to make an escape, and then gets blasted into the sun by Goku. The thing about that is not only is it anti-climatic, it also subverts what Baby as a character was doing up to the point. Instead of running away he would have instead realized Goku was stronger than his current host and through some underhanded means try to acquire his body as he had with Goten, Gohan, and Vegeta. And even if he knew that wouldn't work, his hatred for the Saiyans was too great for him to just leave. Really his character would of at least have tried to blow himself up or something.
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*** Goku has more experience using Super Saiyan than Super Saiyan 2, thus is able to adjust to using it in his kid body more easily and Super Saiyan 4 just circumvents the issue by aging Goku back up to adulthood.
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** Why wouldn't they? Goku is so much more powerful in this series than every other member of the cast that they're completely irrelevant. Goku even outright states that if his Super Saiyan 4 can't do it then nothing can at one point. It's definitely a result of pushing Goku so hard as the protagonist in GT, but the fact is aside from Vegeta when he ascends to SSJ4 himself they might as well all take a nap.


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** Why would he? Goku being a kid didn't slow him down at all throughout GT until he fought Baby and thus it was shown he couldn't maintain his Super Saiyan 3 form. After that, Goku got Super Saiyan 4 and fixed the issue. Thus, Goku gains decades to his life in exchange for being a kid for a few years until he grows up naturally again. He doesn't really have any motivation to reverse the change.


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** The Super Saiyan 4 forms do have red fur around most of their body that we can see, maybe that's a holdover when they fuse?
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** This has been true since back in the Namek Saga. Vegeta was capable of destroying the Earth with his Galick Gun way back in the Saiyan Saga, and he was literally hundreds of times stronger by the time the Frieza Saga ended. Nearly every fighter in the series at that point would be capable of destroying the Earth just by looking at it funny, and they've literally grown millions of times stronger since then in both continuities. Hell, Roshi destroyed the moon way back in Dragonball in his bulked up form. How the Earth doesn't get obliterated by a stray Ki blast is a riddle for the ages.
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Up To Eleven is a defunct trope


*** Shenron is omnipotent because, for example, he know what Oolong means by "the Saiyans" (Vegeta and Nappa), and he later knows where Namek is and what constitutes a Namekian; he had no trouble reviving the populace millions of light years away back in Z. That said, a sufficient excuse for GT would be to say that even an individual Black Star Ball far exceeds his power to move, since that's an established limitation and the Black Star Balls are the normal Dragon Balls UpToEleven. Same of course would apply to Porunga.

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*** Shenron is omnipotent because, for example, he know what Oolong means by "the Saiyans" (Vegeta and Nappa), and he later knows where Namek is and what constitutes a Namekian; he had no trouble reviving the populace millions of light years away back in Z. That said, a sufficient excuse for GT would be to say that even an individual Black Star Ball far exceeds his power to move, since that's an established limitation and the Black Star Balls are the normal Dragon Balls UpToEleven.up to eleven. Same of course would apply to Porunga.
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*** This question has got a very simple, in-universe answer. The first half of GT, up to the end of the Baby Saga, may have been canon back then (even though now we can safely say even that has been [[CanonDiscontinuity discontinued]]). From the Super 17 saga onward, GT could not have been canon at any given point in time, [[DeathOfTheAuthor despite]] [[WordOfGod what Toei or even Akira Toriyama himself may have said in the past]]. That is because of two reasons: first off, the depiction of Hell in the Super 17 Saga spits in the face of everything that was ever said about Hell in the manga (where Hell is never shown) and is basically the same Hell as DBZ filler, which itself is non-canon. Second, and most important, movie villains appear in that saga. Those are short cameos, to be sure, but they appear nonetheless, and movies are firmly, completely, absolutely non-canonical and have never been in any sense, shape, or form before Battle of Gods (and questionably the 2008 Tarble movie). As such, if GT considers filler and movies to drive its plot, it cannot be canonical with DBZ, at least from the Super 17 saga onwards.
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*** It has never been confirmed that GT is non.canon since there is no official DB canon. There are just different timelines.

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*** It has never been confirmed that GT is non.canon non-canon since there is no official DB canon. There are just different timelines.
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**** Of course there is no DB canon, but we don't need the creators to distinguish what does and what does not influence future products set in a said universe (which is what "canon" essentially is). GT stopped being possibly canon as soon as Hell was depicted the same as DBZ filler as a way to drive the plot, and fell even further away from the possibility of being canon when movie villains cameo'ed. From the Super 17 Saga onwards, it is obvious that no future animated product would consider GT as having really happened, and this is just what occurred from 2008 (the Tarble special) onwards.
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*** This question has got a very simple, in-universe answer. The first half of GT, up to the end of the Baby Saga, may have been canon back then (even though now we can safely say even that has been [[CanonDiscontinuity discontinued]]). From the Super 17 saga onward, GT could not have been canon at any given point in time, [[DeathOfTheAuthor despite]] [[WordOfGod what Toei or even Akira Toriyama himself may have said in the past]]. That is because of two reasons: first off, the depiction of Hell in the Super 17 Saga spits in the face of everything that was ever said about Hell in the manga (where Hell is never shown) and is basically the same Hell as DBZ filler, which itself is non-canon. Second, and most important, movie villains appear in that saga. Those are short cameos, to be sure, but they appear nonetheless, and movies are firmly, completely, absolutely non-canonical and have never been in any sense, shape, or form before Battle of Gods (and questionably the 2008 Tarble movie). As such, if GT considers filler and movies to drive its plot, it cannot be canonical with DBZ, at least from the Super 17 onwards.

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*** This question has got a very simple, in-universe answer. The first half of GT, up to the end of the Baby Saga, may have been canon back then (even though now we can safely say even that has been [[CanonDiscontinuity discontinued]]). From the Super 17 saga onward, GT could not have been canon at any given point in time, [[DeathOfTheAuthor despite]] [[WordOfGod what Toei or even Akira Toriyama himself may have said in the past]]. That is because of two reasons: first off, the depiction of Hell in the Super 17 Saga spits in the face of everything that was ever said about Hell in the manga (where Hell is never shown) and is basically the same Hell as DBZ filler, which itself is non-canon. Second, and most important, movie villains appear in that saga. Those are short cameos, to be sure, but they appear nonetheless, and movies are firmly, completely, absolutely non-canonical and have never been in any sense, shape, or form before Battle of Gods (and questionably the 2008 Tarble movie). As such, if GT considers filler and movies to drive its plot, it cannot be canonical with DBZ, at least from the Super 17 saga onwards.
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*** This question has got a very simple, in-universe answer. The first half of GT, up to the end of the Baby Saga, may have been canon back then (even though now we can safely say even that has been [[CanonDiscontinuity discontinued]]. From the Super 17 saga onward, GT could not have been canon at any given point in time, [[DeathOfTheAuthor despite]] [[WordOfGod what Toei or even Akira Toriyama himself may have said in the past]]. That is because of two reasons: first off, the depiction of Hell in the Super 17 Saga spits in the face of everything that was ever said about Hell in the manga (where Hell is never shown) and is basically the same Hell as DBZ filler, which itself is non-canon. Second, and most important, movie villains appear in that saga. Those are short cameos, to be sure, but they appear nonetheless, and movies are firmly, completely, absolutely non-canonical and have never been in any sense, shape, or form before Battle of Gods (and questionably the 2008 Tarble movie). As such, if GT considers filler and movies to drive its plot, it cannot be canonical with DBZ, at least from the Super 17 onwards.

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*** This question has got a very simple, in-universe answer. The first half of GT, up to the end of the Baby Saga, may have been canon back then (even though now we can safely say even that has been [[CanonDiscontinuity discontinued]].discontinued]]). From the Super 17 saga onward, GT could not have been canon at any given point in time, [[DeathOfTheAuthor despite]] [[WordOfGod what Toei or even Akira Toriyama himself may have said in the past]]. That is because of two reasons: first off, the depiction of Hell in the Super 17 Saga spits in the face of everything that was ever said about Hell in the manga (where Hell is never shown) and is basically the same Hell as DBZ filler, which itself is non-canon. Second, and most important, movie villains appear in that saga. Those are short cameos, to be sure, but they appear nonetheless, and movies are firmly, completely, absolutely non-canonical and have never been in any sense, shape, or form before Battle of Gods (and questionably the 2008 Tarble movie). As such, if GT considers filler and movies to drive its plot, it cannot be canonical with DBZ, at least from the Super 17 onwards.
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**** This question has got a very simple, in-universe answer. The first half of GT, up to the end of the Baby Saga, may have been canon back then (even though now we can safely say even that has been [[CanonDiscontinuity discontinued]]. From the Super 17 saga onward, GT could not have been canon at any given point in time, [[DeathOfTheAuthor despite]] [[WordOfGod what Toei or even Akira Toriyama himself may have said in the past]]. That is because of two reasons: first off, the depiction of Hell in the Super 17 Saga spits in the face of everything that was ever said about Hell in the manga (where Hell is never shown) and is basically the same Hell as DBZ filler, which itself is non-canon. Second, and most important, movie villains appear in that saga. Those are short cameos, to be sure, but they appear nonetheless, and movies are firmly, completely, absolutely non-canonical and have never been in any sense, shape, or form before Battle of Gods (and questionably the 2008 Tarble movie). As such, if GT considers filler and movies to drive its plot, it cannot be canonical with DBZ, at least from the Super 17 onwards.

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*** Instant Transmission teleports to a ki source, the Dragon Balls doesn't have ki, and not every planet has someone powerful enough to detect its power from Earth and teleport. A better option would be asking for help to Kibitoshin, who can teleport anywhere.
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*** Instant Transmission teleports to a ki source, and not every planet has someone powerful enough to detect its power from Earth and teleport. A better option would be asking for help to Kibitoshin, who can teleport anywhere.

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*** **** Instant Transmission teleports to a ki source, the Dragon Balls doesn't have ki, and not every planet has someone powerful enough to detect its power from Earth and teleport. A better option would be asking for help to Kibitoshin, who can teleport anywhere.
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****Instant Transmission teleports to a ki source, and not every planet has someone powerful enough to detect its power from Earth and teleport. A better option would be asking for help to Kibitoshin, who can teleport anywhere.
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** Probably because he had no way of contacting 18 to set up the portal, after all he would have had to contact Earth 17 to tell him to sync up with hell 17 so the portal would open.


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** Plus not everyone has someone on the other side to sync up with to punch a hole in the fabric of reality.
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** And when he's powering up his Galic Gun, Goku just stands there doing absolutely '''nothing''' except listening to WorldOfCardboardSpeech until Baby actually fires the blast, after which he seems to realize he has to stop it. And he instead gets hit before he can power up another blast. Was he thinking his own Kamehameha would kick in by then?

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** And when he's powering up his Galic Gun, Goku just stands there doing absolutely '''nothing''' except listening to WorldOfCardboardSpeech the speech until Baby actually fires the blast, after which he seems to realize he has to stop it. And he instead gets hit before he can power up another blast. Was he thinking his own Kamehameha would kick in by then?
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** It's possible that was Baby's original plan, but he either couldn't locate them due to lacking a Dragon Radar or he did find one, saw the crack and decided against it to be safe, since he knew the Black Star Dragon Balls were about to fall into his lap anyway.
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*** Just because the "Can't adversely affect beings more powerful than my creator" rule applies to Shenlong, it doesn't mean the same holds true for Ultimate Shenlong. And even if it did, it's highly arguably whether making someone younger counts as an adverse effect.
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Direct link.


** The Black Star Balls are too nonsensical to think about them. For instance, how come they were never detected after the Nameless Namek was reborn in the middle of Cell Saga? The original Dragon Balls have been collected at least thrice after that (after Cell's death, after Majin Vegeta's killing spree, and at the end of the Buu saga) and they never found out about the Black Balls via the radar. Also, how could Red Shenlong affect Goku's body (and power) since he's clearly far far stronger than the creator? Those are pretty big {{Plot Holes}}.

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** The Black Star Balls are too nonsensical to think about them. For instance, how come they were never detected after the Nameless Namek was reborn in the middle of Cell Saga? The original Dragon Balls have been collected at least thrice after that (after Cell's death, after Majin Vegeta's killing spree, and at the end of the Buu saga) and they never found out about the Black Balls via the radar. Also, how could Red Shenlong affect Goku's body (and power) since he's clearly far far stronger than the creator? Those are pretty big {{Plot Holes}}.Hole}}s.
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** The SSJ4 clothes come from the same place as Gotenks and Gogeta's Metamoran attire.

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** The SSJ4 [=SSJ4=] clothes come from the same place as Gotenks and Gogeta's Metamoran attire.
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** The ''Resurration 'F''' one is given an explanation, Goku and Vegeta now have God-level power and they were also being trained by Whis, hence their base forms were that much more powerful. Here, is there any explanation given?


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** Pretty sure Goku and Vegeta retain their natural black colour even in Super Saiyan 4 form. Gogeta is the only exception.
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** The SSJ4 clothes come from the same place as Gotenks and Gogeta's Metamoran attire.
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** To the above two, Pan specifically said that she didn't want to cause a commotion, at least in the Japanese original. She was most likely concerned about the guards getting hurt, rather than the trio. It's still a weak reason, but it's the canon one.

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