History Headscratchers / DemolitionMan

* The very beginning gives [[ToddTheT1000 this troper]] a JustBugsMe moment - they automatically take Phoenix's word over Spartan's. Spartan is one of the city's most successful cops, whose accolades include nailing some of Los Angeles' worst scumbags of the age, and yet they still freeze him in cryo-stasis. Spartan did a thermal check of the building that only found Phoenix and some of his goonies, and that would probably have been confirmed by written reports, or at least the testimony of Zachary Lamb, the pilot who drops him into Phoenix's hideout. Does it never even ''occur'' to Spartan's police chief that the hostages were already dead? Sure, it turns out that that's true later on, but you'd [[GenreBlind think it would've occurred to somebody]] before you just go and freeze Spartan right up like that?

** I think you're missing something here. In the opening scene, Los Angeles seems to have descended into near-anarchy, and the novelization makes it even worse: after all, there are big fires raging everywhere across the western part of the city (arsonists have even torched the Hollywood sign), the police drive around in Humvees, had to track Phoenix by satellite, and Spartan has to avoid anti-aircraft fire when he is heli-dropped (and Lamb's comment when flying over Phoenix's lair of, "Remember when they used to let commercial airlines land in this town?" suggests that the Los Angeles area airports closed down a long time ago because of aircraft getting shot down and the airports being overrun by saboteurs, and also suggests that Los Angeles has been in a state of anarchy for several years by the time the prologue starts). Given this sort of anarchy, proper police procedure and the court systems were probably suffering pretty badly. FWIW, Spartan may have confessed out of guilt and that would probably end the investigation.

** Or, you know, they had a trial and Phoenix was clever enough to make it possible to believe that Spartan's recklessness got the hostages killed. No one knows what really happened except Spartan and Phoenix - everyone else just saw 30 crispy corpses that were probably crispified after Spartan broke police procedure.

** If this were the real 21st century, forensic evidence would have backed him up, since they wouldn't have died of burns or smoke inhalation [[FridgeBrilliance (unless Phoenix was sadistic and smart enough to prepare the frameup by burning them alive earlier, which wouldn't be out of character for him]]).

** In the opening scene, Los Angeles seems to have descended into near-anarchy, and the novelization makes it even worse: after all, there are big fires raging everywhere (arsonists have even torched the Hollywood sign), the police drive around in Humvees, had to track Phoenix by satellite, and Spartan has to avoid anti-aircraft fire when he is heli-dropped (and Lamb's comment when flying over Phoenix's lair of, "Remember when they used to let commercial airlines land in this town?" suggests that the Los Angeles area airports closed down a long time ago because of aircraft getting shot down and the airports being overrun by saboteurs, and also suggests that Los Angeles has been in a state of anarchy for several years by the time the prologue starts). Given this sort of anarchy, proper police procedure and the court systems were probably suffering pretty badly. FWIW, Spartan may have confessed out of guilt and that would probably end the investigation.
** [[CowboyCop Spartan]] was causing enough controversy that the higher-ups were looking for any excuse to get him terminated.

** By the same token, why wake up Spartan? Does the FBI no longer exist? San Angeles doesn't even cover all of California, much less the entire country--why not bring in the CHP/state police/whatever successor organization exists? Or even ask the cops up in San Francisco for help? This part of the plot only works if ''no other law enforcement agencies anywhere in the United States'' are capable of handling someone like Phoenix.
*** Perhaps they aren't. Perhaps they don't even exist anymore. We're never given much information about the outside world.
*** Or they simply wanted to handle it with one of their own, and not have to rely on outside agencies (and owe them favors).
*** Lamb pretty much says it outright: in 1996, the CHP, FBI, and even ''AmericasMostWanted'' couldn't stop Phoenix. Only Spartan could. So they jump right to that option.
*** We don't really know anything about the world outside San Angeles at all but it's possible, probable even that the same programs that make San Angeles super safe have been employed country wide or even globally. I didn't get the impression from Edgar Friendly that he was fighting for San Angeles because it was particularly special to him. By which I mean that I don't think move to Eagleland/Texas was an option if he wanted to eat a burger, crack open a beer and have sex with a beautiful woman. If the entire world or at least the whole US was similar, all those crime fighting units may be similarly inadequate, and as the above Troper noted, even during their prime they couldn't stop Phoenix-- and nobody is near their prime today.
*** Presumably Cocteau was quietly keeping an eye on the police, so he could have hinted that Spartan was a better option than calling in outsiders. After all, if the FBI ''isn't'' incompetent in his time, their agents might actually catch wise to what he's planning. Spartan doesn't have much credibility as an accuser even if he does figure it out, being an antique barbarian and all.

** Two schools of thought on the matter. First of all the more logical one. It has been established that in order to have procreation, fluids must be screened and sterilized. What does it have to do with the question? If procreation is being controlled by a lab in San Angeles and mental rehab is also a factor. Odds are they might have had a cure for tourettes. The second more mundane one would be that those that suffer from Tourettes get a discount on the fine. Which is still logical since the credit amount is changed depending on the swearing party.Huxley got fined half a credit for swearing, whilst John Sparton got 1 credit and Phoenix got one credit plus the cops being called on him.

[[folder:Phoenix's criminal status in 1996]]
* Was Phoenix more or less a crime lord who controlled a good swath of organized crime in the southwestern United States in 1996? That's what it sounds like to me from interpreting Zachary Lamb's comments on how not even a 12 state manhunt by the FBI, satellite surveillance, or ''AmericasMostWanted'' were capable of capturing him, but only Spartan could.
** Yes? How is this a question? They outright state all of this in the movie, and you just repeated it in your own question.

** In the opening scene, Los Angeles seems to have descended into near-anarchy, and the novelization makes it even worse: after all, there are big fires raging everywhere (arsonists have even torched the Hollywood sign), the police drive around in Humvees, had to track Phoenix by satellite, and Spartan has to avoid anti-aircraft fire when he is heli-dropped (and Lamb's comment when flying over Phoenix's lair of, "Remember when they used to let commercial airlines land in this town?" suggests that the Los Angeles area airports closed down a long time ago because of aircraft getting shot down and the airports being overrun by saboteurs). Given this sort of anarchy, proper police procedure and the court systems were probably suffering pretty badly. FWIW, Spartan may have confessed out of guilt and that would probably end the investigation.

** In the opening scene, Los Angeles seems to have descended into near-anarchy, and the novelization makes it even worse: after all, there are big fires raging everywhere (arsonists have even torched the Hollywood sign), the police drive around in Humvees, had to track Phoenix by satellite, and Spartan has to avoid anti-aircraft fire when he is heli-dropped. Given this sort of anarchy, proper police procedure and the court systems were probably suffering pretty badly. FWIW, Spartan may have confessed out of guilt and that would probably end the investigation.

*** The old black pilot pretty much says it outright: Back in the 1990's, the CHP, FBI, and even ''AmericasMostWanted'' couldn't stop Phoenix. Only Spartan could. So they jump right to that option.

* The very beginning gives [[ToddTheT1000 this troper]] a JustBugsMe moment - they automatically take Phoenix's word over Spartan's. Spartan is one of the city's most successful cops, whose accolades include nailing some of Los Angeles' worst scumbags of the age, and yet they still freeze him in cryo-stasis. Spartan did a thermal check of the building, and that would probably have been confirmed by written reports, or at least the testimony of Zack, the pilot who drops him into Phoenix's hideout. Does it never even ''occur'' to Spartan's police chief that the hostages were already dead? Sure, it turns out that that's true later on, but you'd [[GenreBlind think it would've occurred to somebody]] before you just go and freeze Spartan right up like that?
** Forensic evidence would have backed him up, since they wouldn't have died of burns or smoke inhalation [[FridgeBrilliance (unless Simon was sadistic and smart enough to prepare the frameup by burning them alive earlier, which wouldn't be out of character for him]]).

** In the opening scene, Los Angeles seems to have descended into near-anarchy, and the novelization makes it even worse: after all, there are big fires raging everywhere (arsonists have even torched the Hollywood sign), the police drive around in Humvees, have track Phoenix by satellite, and Spartan has to avoid anti-aircraft fire. Given this sort of anarchy, proper police procedure and the court systems were probably suffering pretty badly. FWIW, Spartan may have confessed out of guilt and that would probably end the investigation.

** Or, you know, they had a trial and Simon was clever enough to make it possible to believe that Spartan's recklessness got the hostages killed. No one knows what happened except Spartan and Phoenix - everyone else just saw 30 crispy corpses that were probably crispified after Spartan broke police procedure.

*** Considering that paying ransom is very, very, very rarely the answer in a hostage situation (they often kill the hostage anyway to keep themselves from being identified, or just because it's easier), Spartan's actions were entirely justified and probably saved the girl's life. "Demolition Man" is a derogatory nickname, but no one who's got any merit ever claims that Spartan does not rank "to protect and serve" as his personal life philosophy. If he were as much of a don't-give-a-shit madman as Phoenix, he wouldn't have bothered doing the thermal scans for hostages... the opening makes it clear that the only reason he ''is'' going down to confront Phoenix, knowing that things are likely to get demolished, is that he thinks there are no innocents in the crossfire.
*** Ransom is indeed very rarely the solution to a hostage situation. But it's fair to suggest that Spartan's solution to the crisis was itself pretty clearly an extreme solution; in the real world, the police often manage to resolve hostage crises without destroying entire shopping centres to do so (granted, Spartan lives in a very CrapsackWorld, but still). At the very least, it's made pretty clear that while Spartan's methods may be necessary for the times, that doesn't mean people have to like Spartan or those methods -- which they clearly don't. Yes, Spartan cares about innocent life. No, he's not as rampantly sociopathic and murderous as Phoenix. But the whole point of the movie is that he is in many ways just as extreme, destructive and dangerous, only at the other side of the morality / law-enforcement spectrum. Plus, we're not talking about what Spartan ''is'' in this case, we're talking about what he ''looks like'' to other people. Be honest; if you heard about a guy who destroyed an entire massive building just to rescue one person, might you think even for a second that he was perhaps overdoing it just a little bit, and that a less destructive solution might possibly have been found if they'd looked hard enough?

* It's only been thirty-six years. Can they really have forgotten everything about the old-style? Considering how many people have survived since the CrapsackWorld period (Cocteau, Zach Lamb), you'd think somebody would've kept the youngsters informed. [[FridgeLogic Even Chief Earle looks old enough to have seen the Dark Times]], yet he finds everything from the old days inconceivable. Am I the only one who finds this odd?

[/folder]]

[[folder:The "Armor Hot Dogs" jingle in 2032]]

[[folder:Social collapse

* The very beginning gives [[ToddTheT1000 this troper]] a JustBugsMe moment - they automatically take Phoenix's word over Spartan's. Spartan is one of the city's most successful cops, whose accolades include nailing some of Los Angeles' worst scumbags of the age, and yet they still bang him in cryo-stasis. Spartan did a thermal check of the building, and that would probably have been confirmed by written reports, or at least the testimony of Zack, the pilot who drops him into Phoenix's hideout. Does it never even ''occur'' to Spartan's police chief that the hostages were already dead? Sure, it turns out that that's true later on, but you'd [[GenreBlind think it would've occurred to somebody]] before you just go and freeze Spartan right up like that?
** Forensic evidence would have backed him up, since they wouldn't have died of burns or smoke inhalation [[FridgeBrilliance (unles Simon was sadistic and smart enough to prepare the frameup by burning them alive earlier]]).

** In the opening scene, Los Angeles seems to have descended into near-anarchy (and the novelization makes it even worse). Proper police procedure and the court systems were probably suffering pretty badly. FWIW, Spartan may have confessed out of guilt and that would probably end the investigation.
** The police chief wanted a reason, any reason, to fire [[CowboyCop Spartan.]]

** It's worth noting that Spartan himself points out that he's not exactly anything to emulate or admire, and is in many ways as destructive as Phoenix. The two definitely have a bit of a NotSoDifferent thing going on; both are destructive, impulsive, violent types, except one's on the side of anarchy and chaos and the other's on the side of law. However, they could both easily come across as equally bad extremes -- yeah, Phoenix is killing innocent civilians and taking urban warfare to the streets, but Spartan's destroying entire shopping malls to rescue one person (which, much as the "Fuck ''you'' lady!" kid has a point, is not exactly that much more socially constructive). Essentially, just because Phoenix is bad doesn't mean that people are gonna be inclined to think much better of Spartan; I mean, he's called the "Demolition Man" for Christ's sake, that's not exactly a nickname with many positive connotations.

*** This is especially weird since explicitly you can retrain someone to be [[RestrainingBolt unable]] to kill someone else (Simon can't shoot Cocteau). Would it be so hard to make it so someone can't kill ''at all''? Why not do that?

** Considering that Mexico is usually at least a few steps below the US in its level of law and order at any given time, I imagine the entire country burned to the ground sometime around the point the Hollywood sign was set alight over here.

*** ^Exactly. Cocteau was trying to kill two birds with one stone. Eliminate Edgar Friendly, and inject a little chaos into his utopian society so he could justify another power grab. Cocteau figured Phoenix could accomplish both those goals at once. The hitch in his plan is that Cocteau didn't really understand Phoenix. Because he comes from (as one troper on this page amusingly put it) a hippie idiot future full of hippie idiots, he views "violent" people as little more than trained attack dogs. He can't comprehend that someone like Phoenix (or someone like Spartan for that matter) could be both capable of violence ''and'' intelligent in their own right.

* We all know about the Verbal Morality Statue, that fines you if you curse. But what if you have Tourette's Syndrome of the Obscenities kind? Would you still get fined a credit?

** The second bit was answered a few lines above yours. As to the first, we humans are ''always'' overestimating how far tech is going to progress in the near future. The original LostInSpace? Was set in ''1995''.

** The movie's hardly arguing for social collapse, though. It clearly makes the case that anarchic Los Angeles isn't any more great than San Angeles, but it's not like the only two options are "unrestrained chaotic anarchy" or "squeamish over-restrictive morality policing". There's a middle ground to be found. I doubt the social collapse was caused by people eating the occasional burger and smoking an occasional cigarette.

** The movie's hardly arguing for social collapse, though. It clearly makes the case that anarchic Los Angeles isn't any more great than San Angeles, but it's not like the only two options are "unrestrained chaotic anarchy" or "squeamish over-restrictive morality policing". I doubt the social collapse was caused by people eating the occasional burger and smoking an occasional cigarette.