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*** You can`t tell if it is crowded or not, we don`t know the size of the undeworld. Also, what unfinished business could Scraps have?
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*** You can`t tell if it is crowded or not, we don`t know the size of the undeworld.underworld. Also, what unfinished business could Scraps have?
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***** [[Tropers/Nettik I]] assumed that the beings in the Underworld were waiting around for someone else to join them in death before moving on to the next world. It makes sense if you think about some of the inhabitants of the Underworld. The skeleton children may be waiting for their parents or their friends, Victor's dog was likely waiting for him, and Emily was waiting for Lord Barkis.
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** According to the Q&A page on IMDB, the implication was that she moved on to Heaven. However, the filmmakers went with a generic symbol of the human soul (the butterfly) to avoid tying it to any one religion.
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** According to the Q&A page on IMDB, the implication was filmmakers were trying to imply that she moved on to Heaven. However, the filmmakers went with Heaven; they chose a generic symbol of the human soul (the butterfly) [[ButterflyOfDeathAndRebirth butterfly]]) to avoid tying it to any one religion.
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** 2) Marrying Victoria was never his original goal, it was coincidence that he was there to take Victor's place. As one of the "upper crust" it was only polite/sociable (and smart) for him to attend a wedding of his peers/social group and use that opportunity to scout out potential bride (WITH a fortune, he did not know Victoria's family was broke.).
** 3) Emily may not have been factored at all. Pure dumb luck/fate seems to have led Victor to her. After all, if Barkis wanted Victor dead, he could watched, waited, and slit Victor's throat/backstab the second they were out of sight.
** 3) Emily may not have been factored at all. Pure dumb luck/fate seems to have led Victor to her. After all, if Barkis wanted Victor dead, he could watched, waited, and slit Victor's throat/backstab the second they were out of sight.
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** 1) He could have waiting for SpeakNowOfForeverHoldYourPeace moment to deliver a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech.
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** 1) He could have waiting for SpeakNowOfForeverHoldYourPeace SpeakNowOrForeverHoldYourPeace moment to deliver a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech.
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editing needs to be very specific. hard.
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** 1) He could have waiting for SpeakNowOfForeverHoldYourPeace moment to deliver a "TheReasonYouSuck"Speech.
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** 1) He could have waiting for SpeakNowOfForeverHoldYourPeace moment to deliver a "TheReasonYouSuck"Speech.TheReasonYouSuckSpeech.
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** 1) He could have waiting for SpeakNowOfForeverHoldYourPeace moment to deliver a TheReasonYouSuck speech.
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** 1) He could have waiting for SpeakNowOfForeverHoldYourPeace moment to deliver a TheReasonYouSuck speech."TheReasonYouSuck"Speech.
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** 1) He could have waiting for SpeakNowOfForeverHoldYourPeace moment to deliver a ReasonYouSuck speech.
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** 1) He could have waiting for SpeakNowOfForeverHoldYourPeace moment to deliver a ReasonYouSuck TheReasonYouSuck speech.
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** 1) He could have waiting for SpeakNowOfForeverHoldYourPeace moment to deliver a ReasonYouSuck speech.
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** They didn't seem that bad too me. However, the main reason is probably solidarity. Emily is very well-liked, and everybody who hurts her is looked down upon.
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** That city isn't the whole underworld--it's the underworld for the people who died and were buried in that specific town! Remember, everyone who came "upstairs" for the wedding was recognized by their family and friends, and when Victor tries to get Emily to take him home to "meet his parents," she asks him "Where are they buried?"
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** There were trees in the underworld, wasn't there? There has to be a lake somewhere with algae. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's nonexistant.
*** [[FridgeHorror Wait a second]], [[DantesInferno TREES]]?
*** [[FridgeHorror Wait a second]], [[DantesInferno TREES]]?
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** There were trees in the underworld, wasn't there? There has to be a lake somewhere with algae. Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it's nonexistant.
nonexistent.
*** [[FridgeHorror Wait a second]],[[DantesInferno [[VideoGame/DantesInferno TREES]]?
*** [[FridgeHorror Wait a second]],
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** It gets weirder when you compare ''CorpseBride'' with its spirital ancestor, ''TheNightmareBeforeChristmas''. Nightmare is technically Disney (a cousin of the animated canon, if you will), so you would expect it to having talking animals (image what Zero would sound like), but it doesn't. Perhaps it's so Emily can have some friends to talk to? Then why not other corpses?
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** It gets weirder when you compare ''CorpseBride'' ''Film/CorpseBride'' with its spirital ancestor, ''TheNightmareBeforeChristmas''. Nightmare is technically Disney (a cousin of the animated canon, if you will), so you would expect it to having talking animals (image what Zero would sound like), but it doesn't. Perhaps it's so Emily can have some friends to talk to? Then why not other corpses?
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** Less tension and eventual confusion when the dead show up for Victor and Emily's wedding. If there were a way for Victoria to go after Victor, it would be common(ish) knowledge.
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** I doubt anyone will be able to pull up legal documents enforcing that fact. In any case, it would be considered pretty trivial since the dead just got up and walked through town. It'd be all too easy to get people to believe that Barkis died before anything could be resolved. As to why they didn't show that, it would've broken the pace.
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* Why does everyone in the underworld act like Victor is a giant [[Jerkass jerk]] for not wanting to be married to Emily and for trying to get back to Victoria? I'm aware that, in universe, it can be justified by that just being the way the dead think, but it's still completely absurd and seems only there to make everyone guilt Victor into accepting Emily. He married her accidentally and already had a fiancée. Emily's behavior (while understandable given [[Woobie her past]]) is irrational. It's not even entirely because she's dead - if a similar situation happened with a living girl it would be obvious her behavior was irrational.
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* Why does everyone in the underworld act like Victor is a giant [[Jerkass [[{{Jerkass}} jerk]] for not wanting to be married to Emily and for trying to get back to Victoria? I'm aware that, in universe, it can be justified by that just being the way the dead think, but it's still completely absurd and seems only there to make everyone guilt Victor into accepting Emily. He married her accidentally and already had a fiancée. Emily's behavior (while understandable given [[Woobie [[{{Woobie}} her past]]) is irrational. It's not even entirely because she's dead - if a similar situation happened with a living girl it would be obvious her behavior was irrational.
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*Why does everyone in the underworld act like Victor is a giant [[Jerkass jerk]] for not wanting to be married to Emily and for trying to get back to Victoria? I'm aware that, in universe, it can be justified by that just being the way the dead think, but it's still completely absurd and seems only there to make everyone guilt Victor into accepting Emily. He married her accidentally and already had a fiancée. Emily's behavior (while understandable given [[Woobie her past]]) is irrational. It's not even entirely because she's dead - if a similar situation happened with a living girl it would be obvious her behavior was irrational.
*Does it bother anybody else that Victoria doesn't get a chance to go after Victor and Emily? You have to think about it from the perspective of it being a film - in-story, it makes sense, but the story wasn't born into existence, it was written, and it could have been written differently. It feels like the story goes out of its way to push Emily and Victor together, and suppresses Victoria in order to do so.
*Why on earth is Barkis attending Victor and Victoria's wedding?! He seems to be there just so that he can swoop in and take Victoria when Victor disappears with Emily, but he doesn't make any attempt on Victor's life or try to get him out of the way. My brother and I tried to restructure the film with this in mind and we thought it'd be a great idea to have Barkis be the one to suggest Victor practice in the woods - it opens the plot hole of, how could he know Emily was waiting for him, but he makes him a more effective villain and at least explains what he's doing there, and those kinds of plot holes are all over the place in Burton's films.
*The ending's great and all, but....[[{{FridgeLogic}} Victor and Victoria can't get married.]] Last anybody knew, Victoria got married to Lord Barkis. Who is dead, but how is anybody supposed to know, since his corpse was carried off? I'm sure it could be worked up, but it bugs me they couldn't clear that up better before the end to at least reassure us that the couple really could live happily ever after.
*Does it bother anybody else that Victoria doesn't get a chance to go after Victor and Emily? You have to think about it from the perspective of it being a film - in-story, it makes sense, but the story wasn't born into existence, it was written, and it could have been written differently. It feels like the story goes out of its way to push Emily and Victor together, and suppresses Victoria in order to do so.
*Why on earth is Barkis attending Victor and Victoria's wedding?! He seems to be there just so that he can swoop in and take Victoria when Victor disappears with Emily, but he doesn't make any attempt on Victor's life or try to get him out of the way. My brother and I tried to restructure the film with this in mind and we thought it'd be a great idea to have Barkis be the one to suggest Victor practice in the woods - it opens the plot hole of, how could he know Emily was waiting for him, but he makes him a more effective villain and at least explains what he's doing there, and those kinds of plot holes are all over the place in Burton's films.
*The ending's great and all, but....[[{{FridgeLogic}} Victor and Victoria can't get married.]] Last anybody knew, Victoria got married to Lord Barkis. Who is dead, but how is anybody supposed to know, since his corpse was carried off? I'm sure it could be worked up, but it bugs me they couldn't clear that up better before the end to at least reassure us that the couple really could live happily ever after.
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This isn\'t a headscratcher. Go whine somewhere else.
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* Ok, this is really just an all out opinion, but it [[{{TitleDrop}} just bugs me]] how stunningly AVERAGE this film is. Nightmare was a flawed movie. A VERY flawed movie. But I could sense real effort behind it! Jack Skellington is perhaps one of the most well-developed characters in movie HISTORY. He makes the movie much better than the other characters would let you believe. Oogie Boogie may have been a weak villain, but he had style, and I think Burton had a lot of fun writing him. Half of the songs are horrible, but the other half are sheer BRILLIANCE. \\
The Corpse Bride feels like a cheap knockoff of Nightmare, made to cash in on Claymation. The characters are poorly written (well, besides Bonejangles), the villain is uninspired, in both performance and writing, and there are about four songs, only one of which is any good. Everything seems like it was created to copy the formula of Nightmare. And I could forgive all of this if it wasn't so startlingly unfunny. Nightmare was wall to wall with hilarious jokes that really save the movie from its more idiotic moments; even if the characters were bad, you could always count on them making you laugh. For some reason, I don't get that from this movie. I chuckled at times, and there were a few brilliant moments, but the film just seems so lazy. They didn't even copy elements that would have elevated this film. If they had made a song similar to "What's This?" for Victor arriving in the Underworld, this film would have instantly become a lot better.\\
Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
The Corpse Bride feels like a cheap knockoff of Nightmare, made to cash in on Claymation. The characters are poorly written (well, besides Bonejangles), the villain is uninspired, in both performance and writing, and there are about four songs, only one of which is any good. Everything seems like it was created to copy the formula of Nightmare. And I could forgive all of this if it wasn't so startlingly unfunny. Nightmare was wall to wall with hilarious jokes that really save the movie from its more idiotic moments; even if the characters were bad, you could always count on them making you laugh. For some reason, I don't get that from this movie. I chuckled at times, and there were a few brilliant moments, but the film just seems so lazy. They didn't even copy elements that would have elevated this film. If they had made a song similar to "What's This?" for Victor arriving in the Underworld, this film would have instantly become a lot better.\\
Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
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The Corpse Bride feels like a cheap knockoff of Nightmare, made to cash in on Claymation. The characters are poorly written (well, besides Bonejangles), the villain is uninspired, in both performance and writing, and there are about four songs, only one of which is any good. Everything seems like it was created to copy the formula of Nightmare. And I could forgive all of this if it wasn't so startlingly unfunny. Nightmare was wall to wall with hilarious jokes that really save the movie from its more idiotic moments; even if the characters were bad, you could always count on them making you laugh. For some reason, I don't get that from this movie. I chuckled at times, and there were a few brilliant moments, but the film just seems so lazy. They didn't even copy elements that would have elevated this film. If they had made a song similar to "What's This?" for Victor arriving in the Underworld, this film would have instantly become a lot better.\\
Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
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The Corpse Bride feels like a cheap knockoff of Nightmare, made to cash in on Claymation. The characters are poorly written (well, besides Bonejangles), the villain is uninspired, in both performance and writing, and there are about four songs, only one of which is any good. Everything seems like it was created to copy the formula of Nightmare. And I could forgive all of this if it wasn't so startlingly unfunny. Nightmare was wall to wall with hilarious jokes that really save the movie from its more idiotic moments; even if the characters were bad, you could always count on them making you laugh. For some reason, I don't get that from this movie. I chuckled at times, and there were a few brilliant moments, but the film just seems so lazy. They didn't even copy elements that would have elevated this film. If they had made a song similar to "What's This?" for Victor arriving in the Underworld, this film would have instantly become a lot better.\\
Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
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Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
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The Corpse Bride feels like a cheap knockoff of Nightmare, made to cash in on Claymation. The characters are poorly written (well, besides Bonejangles), the villain is uninspired, in both performance and writing, and there are about four songs, only one of which is any good. Everything seems like it was created to copy the formula of Nightmare. And I could forgive all of this if it wasn't so startlingly unfunny. Nightmare was wall to wall with hilarious jokes that really save the movie from its more idiotic moments; even if the characters were bad, you could always count on them making you laugh. For some reason, I don't get that from this movie. I chuckled at times, and there were a few brilliant moments, but the film just seems so lazy. They didn't even copy elements that would have elevated this film. If they had made a song similar to "What's This?" for Victor arriving in the Underworld, this film would have instantly become a lot better.
Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
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The Corpse Bride feels like a cheap knockoff of Nightmare, made to cash in on Claymation. The characters are poorly written (well, besides Bonejangles), the villain is uninspired, in both performance and writing, and there are about four songs, only one of which is any good. Everything seems like it was created to copy the formula of Nightmare. And I could forgive all of this if it wasn't so startlingly unfunny. Nightmare was wall to wall with hilarious jokes that really save the movie from its more idiotic moments; even if the characters were bad, you could always count on them making you laugh. For some reason, I don't get that from this movie. I chuckled at times, and there were a few brilliant moments, but the film just seems so lazy. They didn't even copy elements that would have elevated this film. If they had made a song similar to "What's This?" for Victor arriving in the Underworld, this film would have instantly become a lot
Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
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* Ok, this is really just an all out opinion, but it [[{{TitleDrop}} just bugs me]] how stunningly AVERAGE this film is. Nightmare was a flawed movie. A VERY flawed movie. But I could sense real effort behind it! Jack Skellington is perhaps one of the most well-developed characters in movie HISTORY. He makes the movie much better than the other characters would let you believe. Oogie Boogie may have been a weak villain, but he had style, and I think Burton had a lot of fun writing him. Half of the songs are horrible, but the other half are sheer BRILLIANCE.
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* Ok, this is really just an all out opinion, but it [[{{TitleDrop}} just bugs me]] how stunningly AVERAGE this film is. Nightmare was a flawed movie. A VERY flawed movie. But I could sense real effort behind it! Jack Skellington is perhaps one of the most well-developed characters in movie HISTORY. He makes the movie much better than the other characters would let you believe. Oogie Boogie may have been a weak villain, but he had style, and I think Burton had a lot of fun writing him. Half of the songs are horrible, but the other half are sheer BRILLIANCE. \\
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** My guess is that the underworld cannot fill up, because it exists outside of time and space. It is most likely infinite.
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*Ok, this is really just an all out opinion, but it [[{{TitleDrop}} just bugs me]] how stunningly AVERAGE this film is. Nightmare was a flawed movie. A VERY flawed movie. But I could sense real effort behind it! Jack Skellington is perhaps one of the most well-developed characters in movie HISTORY. He makes the movie much better than the other characters would let you believe. Oogie Boogie may have been a weak villain, but he had style, and I think Burton had a lot of fun writing him. Half of the songs are horrible, but the other half are sheer BRILLIANCE.
The Corpse Bride feels like a cheap knockoff of Nightmare, made to cash in on Claymation. The characters are poorly written (well, besides Bonejangles), the villain is uninspired, in both performance and writing, and there are about four songs, only one of which is any good. Everything seems like it was created to copy the formula of Nightmare. And I could forgive all of this if it wasn't so startlingly unfunny. Nightmare was wall to wall with hilarious jokes that really save the movie from its more idiotic moments; even if the characters were bad, you could always count on them making you laugh. For some reason, I don't get that from this movie. I chuckled at times, and there were a few brilliant moments, but the film just seems so lazy. They didn't even copy elements that would have elevated this film. If they had made a song similar to "What's This?" for Victor arriving in the Underworld, this film would have instantly become a lot better.
Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
The Corpse Bride feels like a cheap knockoff of Nightmare, made to cash in on Claymation. The characters are poorly written (well, besides Bonejangles), the villain is uninspired, in both performance and writing, and there are about four songs, only one of which is any good. Everything seems like it was created to copy the formula of Nightmare. And I could forgive all of this if it wasn't so startlingly unfunny. Nightmare was wall to wall with hilarious jokes that really save the movie from its more idiotic moments; even if the characters were bad, you could always count on them making you laugh. For some reason, I don't get that from this movie. I chuckled at times, and there were a few brilliant moments, but the film just seems so lazy. They didn't even copy elements that would have elevated this film. If they had made a song similar to "What's This?" for Victor arriving in the Underworld, this film would have instantly become a lot better.
Ok, bit of a diatribe, and I look forward to the arguments people might have.
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** According to the Q&A page on IMDB, the implication was that she moved on to Heaven. However, the filmmakers went with a generic symbol of the human soul (the butterfly) to avoid tying it to any one religion.
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** Elder Gutknecht seemed to be from a previous generation of dead humans, perhaps a Homo Habilus? He is, rather literally, the Elder of Underworld, as he's been around longer than everyone else when they were alive...?
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**** No idea, but we'd probably see more neanderthals and old-timey stuff if that was the only underworld... the oldest ghosts there seem to be those two generals. And... guys, we're talking millions, or at least thousands of years of death here, unless the underworld is infnite(which it doesn't seem to be), the place seems a bit too underpopulated.
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**** No idea, but we'd probably see more neanderthals and old-timey stuff if that was the only underworld... the oldest ghosts there seem to be those two generals. And... guys, we're talking millions, or at least thousands of years of death here, unless the underworld is infnite(which infnite (which it doesn't seem to be), the place seems a bit too underpopulated.
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** She gets reinacarnated. [[WildMassGuessing As V&V's KID!]]
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** She gets reinacarnated.reincarnated. [[WildMassGuessing As V&V's KID!]]
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** They could spend an eternity beating the heck out of him.
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**I figured that Scraps was a dead dog while Maggot and BW were (somehow) natural denizens of the underworld -- that is, beings that didn't have to die to get there. Scraps couldn't speak English (or any other human language) in life, so it carried into death, whereas Maggot and BW had always existed as supernatural English-speaking creatures.
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** I think so. I remember Tim pointing out in ''TheNightmareBeforeChristmas'' DVDCommentary that the citizens being worried about Jack being dead [[FridgeLogic doesn't make sense]], as he is already dead. Then he said that they were more worried about Jack being ''gone'', so I think there's a possible DeaderThanDead scenario that can happen.
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***[[FridgeHorror Wait a second]], [[DantesInferno TREES]]?
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* So are the dead people ghosts or just animated (no pun intended) corpses? If it is the latter, does that mean nothing actually dies (since Emily turns into butterflies when her "spirit" is released, it seems her soul is still connected to her body)? If they are just ghosts, why are children stuck in the Underworld, did they have anything that would prevent them from moving on?
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* So are the dead people ghosts or just animated (no pun intended) corpses? If it is the latter, does that mean nothing actually dies (since Emily turns into butterflies when her "spirit" is released, it seems her soul is still connected to her body)? body; and they actually are senitent)? If they are just ghosts, why are children stuck in the Underworld, did they have anything that would prevent them from moving on?on?
** On second thought, the dead "children" are probably just freaky midgets...
** On second thought, the dead "children" are probably just freaky midgets...
