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* In Season 3, "A Minute Changes Everything", which one was which?
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** It's worth noting that Garza didn't seem inclined to spare Young!Alec until he mentioned that he'd fallen in love, which Old!Alec said he'd never done and wanted to change. Of course, whether that's true or just another of Old!Alec's manipulations is anyone's guess. It seemed enough for Garza to want to give Young!Alec the benefit of the doubt, though.
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*** But what about those fancy suits Kiera et al have? Then bullets really do only cause flesh wounds!
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** Oh, dear. You've fallen victim to thinking the OnlyAFleshWound trope is [[RealityIsUnrealistic realistic]]. TelevisionIsTryingToKillUs.
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**** Also, as of S2E9, the first glimmerings of the corporate-dominated future of 2077 can be seen. [[spoiler:Mr. Escher is personally contributing funds to the Vancouver Police Department.]]
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**** Also, as of S2E9, the first glimmerings of the corporate-dominated future of 2077 can be seen. [[spoiler:Mr. Escher is personally contributing funds to the Vancouver Police Department.]]]] As of S2E11, the branch of the VPD under Dillon's control is for all intents and purposes Piron's (that is, Escher's) private army.
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*** Dillon shows no signs of stopping, either. He talks about the "Piron mandate", which suggests that for all intents and purposes, AU-2013 has a private, corporate-funded police force which operates above the law. If Dillon's proposed tactics are anything to go by, no wonder [[spoiler:an entire corporate gulag-complex sprouted up by 2035!]]
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*** And that probably set some nasty precedents both for police and activists: cops now know it's okay to consider all activists potential terrorists, and activists now know that cops consider them all potential terrorists. Continue that ViciousCycle for another half a century and the state of constant war between the establishment and the revolutionaries in 2078 is almost certain. Perhaps a story arc in Season 2 will involve the Roland widow trying to call attention to her husband's execution, which in the original timeline ended in a suspicious death before her trial... and Kiera will have to protect and/or ''become'' her assassin or risk her future being destroyed.
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*** And that probably set some nasty precedents both for police and activists: cops now know it's okay to consider all activists potential terrorists, and activists now know that cops consider them all potential terrorists. Continue that ViciousCycle for another half a century and the state of constant war between the establishment and the revolutionaries in 2078 2077 is almost certain. Perhaps a story arc in Season 2 will involve the Roland widow trying to call attention to her husband's execution, which in the original timeline ended in a suspicious death before her trial... and Kiera will have to protect and/or ''become'' her assassin or risk her future being destroyed.
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*** Kiera's [[spoiler:"enthusiastic questioning" of Garza]] makes me wonder just ''what'' they teach in 2077 in the "Interrogation Methods" course.
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*** Kiera's [[spoiler:"enthusiastic questioning" of Garza]] makes me wonder just ''what'' they teach in 2077 in the "Interrogation Methods" course. And the irony is, it probably all started because Liber8 hit 2012 in the first place, forcing Dillon to seek extra funding to do things "his way". Enter Mr. Escher, willing to hand out cash no questions asked, and all the rest seems to follow to the NAU of 2077.
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*** Kiera's [[spoiler:"enthusiastic questioning" of Garza]] makes me wonder just ''what'' they teach in 2077 in the "Interrogation Methods" course.
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*** And that probably set some nasty precedents both for police and activists: cops now know it's okay to consider all activists potential terrorists, and activists now know that cops consider them all potential terrorists. Continue that ViciousCycle for another half a century and the state of constant war between the establishment and the revolutionaries in 2078 is almost certain. Perhaps a story arc in Season 2 will involve the Roland widow trying to call attention to her husband's execution, which in the original timeline ended in a suspicious death before her trial... and Kiera will have to protect and/or ''become'' her assassin or risk her future being destroyed.
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** They weren't actually guilty of incompetence, they only acted on the information they had, so any repercussions were probably light.
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** They probably blamed it all on Liber8.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder:Present Day]]
* In "Family Time", SWAT ''shoots a hostage''. It's based on bad intel, interpreted in the worst way; Roland Randol is a political activist, so the police's first assumption upon learning of the situation is that Roland is one of the perps - not his son Julian, who actually purchased the vanload of ANFO. What were the repercussions? Or did the police simply lie and say Roland was a domestic terrorist?
[[folder:Present Day]]
* In "Family Time", SWAT ''shoots a hostage''. It's based on bad intel, interpreted in the worst way; Roland Randol is a political activist, so the police's first assumption upon learning of the situation is that Roland is one of the perps - not his son Julian, who actually purchased the vanload of ANFO. What were the repercussions? Or did the police simply lie and say Roland was a domestic terrorist?
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**** Also, as of S2E9, the first glimmerings of the corporate-dominated future of 2077 can be seen. [[spoiler:Mr. Escher is personally contributing funds to the Vancouver Police Department.]]
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**** As of Season 2, Episode 9, the show is starting to motivate why Liber8 was formed. [[spoiler:By 2035, factories (which are basically large corporate-run labor camps) are set up which "employ" zombie-ized lifetime workers, most of who have probably been run in for failure to pay excessive debts or other relatively minor offences.]]
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**** As of Season 2, Episode 9, the show is starting to motivate why Liber8 was formed. [[spoiler:By 2035, factories (which are basically large corporate-run labor camps) are were set up which "employ" zombie-ized lifetime workers, most of who have probably been run in for failure to pay excessive debts or other relatively minor offences.]]]] One can hardly imagine the matter to have improved much in 2077.
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*** Agreed. The TV series doesn't seem to be getting into a serious exploration (yet, anyway) of what would drive Liber8 to be the left-wing counterpart to the corporate-backed "Union" of 2077; the audience seems to largely be expected to discount the StrawmanHasAPoint nature of Liber8.
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*** Agreed. The TV series doesn't seem to be getting into a serious exploration (yet, anyway) of what would drive Liber8 to be the left-wing counterpart to the corporate-backed "Union" of 2077; the audience seems to largely be expected to discount the StrawmanHasAPoint nature of Liber8. Liber8.
**** As of Season 2, Episode 9, the show is starting to motivate why Liber8 was formed. [[spoiler:By 2035, factories (which are basically large corporate-run labor camps) are set up which "employ" zombie-ized lifetime workers, most of who have probably been run in for failure to pay excessive debts or other relatively minor offences.]]
**** As of Season 2, Episode 9, the show is starting to motivate why Liber8 was formed. [[spoiler:By 2035, factories (which are basically large corporate-run labor camps) are set up which "employ" zombie-ized lifetime workers, most of who have probably been run in for failure to pay excessive debts or other relatively minor offences.]]
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* First off, it's subtle, but the sea level as a whole seems to rise a bit when going forward from 2012/2013 to 2077. Second, [[spoiler:New Pemberton]] looks like a real industrial wasteland compared to what you can see of [[spoiler:Pemberton]] via Google Earth. It would be interesting to see the results of earthquakes and global warming on the 2077 map of British Columbia.
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* First off, it's subtle, but the sea level as a whole seems to rise a bit when going forward from 2012/2013 to 2077. Second, [[spoiler:New Pemberton]] looks like a real industrial wasteland compared to what you can see of [[spoiler:Pemberton]] via Google Earth. It would be interesting to see the results of earthquakes and global warming on the 2077 map of British Columbia.Columbia.
[[/folder]]
[[/folder]]
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[[folder:Geographical Changes]]
* First off, it's subtle, but the sea level as a whole seems to rise a bit when going forward from 2012/2013 to 2077. Second, [[spoiler:New Pemberton]] looks like a real industrial wasteland compared to what you can see of [[spoiler:Pemberton]] via Google Earth. It would be interesting to see the results of earthquakes and global warming on the 2077 map of British Columbia.
* First off, it's subtle, but the sea level as a whole seems to rise a bit when going forward from 2012/2013 to 2077. Second, [[spoiler:New Pemberton]] looks like a real industrial wasteland compared to what you can see of [[spoiler:Pemberton]] via Google Earth. It would be interesting to see the results of earthquakes and global warming on the 2077 map of British Columbia.
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* What's strange about Garza's interactions with him is that as far as can be determined, she's actually giving him a genuine smile when she's initially talking to his younger self after having just offed or knocked out his friends. It's like she has developed some kind of strange comradeship with Old Alec. And Kagame went to his death for Old Alec! Meanwhile, Garza is safeguarding - in her own strange way - Alec from going down a path to darkness.
* What kind of man is he in 2077 that he can inspire those feelings in people???
* What kind of man is he in 2077 that he can inspire those feelings in people???
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* What's strange about Garza's interactions with him is that as far as can be determined, she's actually giving him a genuine smile when she's initially talking to his younger self after having just offed or knocked out his friends. It's like she has developed some kind of strange comradeship with Old Alec. And Kagame went to his death for Old Alec! Meanwhile, Garza is safeguarding - in her own strange way - Alec from going down a path to darkness.
*darkness. What kind of man is he in 2077 that he can inspire those feelings in people???people?
** One with the knowledge of what has happened, what is to come, and the roles of those who have yet to play those parts. One would imagine it would be easy to manipulate others when you have a fair idea of how they'll react beforehand.
*
** One with the knowledge of what has happened, what is to come, and the roles of those who have yet to play those parts. One would imagine it would be easy to manipulate others when you have a fair idea of how they'll react beforehand.
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[[folder:Alec Sadler]]
* What's strange about Garza's interactions with him is that as far as can be determined, she's actually giving him a genuine smile when she's initially talking to his younger self after having just offed or knocked out his friends. It's like she has developed some kind of strange comradeship with Old Alec. And Kagame went to his death for Old Alec! Meanwhile, Garza is safeguarding - in her own strange way - Alec from going down a path to darkness.
* What kind of man is he in 2077 that he can inspire those feelings in people???
[[/folder]]
* What's strange about Garza's interactions with him is that as far as can be determined, she's actually giving him a genuine smile when she's initially talking to his younger self after having just offed or knocked out his friends. It's like she has developed some kind of strange comradeship with Old Alec. And Kagame went to his death for Old Alec! Meanwhile, Garza is safeguarding - in her own strange way - Alec from going down a path to darkness.
* What kind of man is he in 2077 that he can inspire those feelings in people???
[[/folder]]
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**There's no such thing as a "nonlethal" place to be shot. The bullet, or fragments (if it hit a bone), could have could have hit a major blood vessel. Combine that with shock from heavy tissue damage and pain amd you've got one dead guy.
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** She had already messed with several of their plans, they wanted to undo that. Plus, they were not sure if it would work, or if changing the past was dangerous to their own existence. Killing her grandmother allowed for testing which [[TimeyWimeyBall version of time travel]] their universe uses.
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* In the episode with the hostages (S1: Ep. 8?), Hoyt somehow manages to die from a clearly nonlethal shoulder shot.
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** Given a nod in "Second Thoughts". Sonya realizes that she's starting to become no better than the people they're trying to fight, while Ingram points out that sometimes you have to be.
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** Now we have an answer. The building was being used by pharmaceutical execs for a secret meeting to suppress cures. Good a reason as any for Liber8 to want them dead.
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*** Agreed. The TV series doesn't seem to be getting into a serious exploration (yet, anyway) of what would drive Liber8 to be the left-wing counterpart to the corporate-backed "Union" of 2077; the audience seems to largely be expected to discount the StrawmanHasAPoint nature of Liber8.
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** Because for all the suggestions of a GreyAndGrayMorality, Liber8 are basically cartoon supervillains.
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* [[WhyDontYaJustShootHim Why Don't Ya Just Shoot Her?]] If your plan to get rid of the Protector from the future requires stabbing her in order to get a copy of her DNA so you can track down and murder her grandmother, it's too complicated of a plan. Stabbing someone is usually the end of a plan to kill someone, not just the middle.
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** Such is the irony of so many revolutionary movements. Revolutions start because people are upset with how things are run, with the ultimate goal of changing things. But being a revolutionary doesn't necessarily involve the skills to do a better job. So even when the revolution succeeds, it often devolves to "doing whatever it takes", which is often NotSoDifferent from what the previous guys were doing and sometimes worse. Hence why so many people in stable societies often distrust would-be revolutionaries.
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** That building blew up in the future, so Kagame had to destroy it in the past (for whatever reason). As for Sonya, what she's doing is political. Killing the mayor puts the guy on her payroll on track to win, in addition to undermining groups opposed to her own.
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** No one said the revolution was perfect. Liber8 just can't collapse the institution. They have to make sure the alternative is better. And there's no indication of any long-term plans to run things behind the scenes. The guy was evidently picked because of how he would lead, not being forced to lead on their terms.
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New entries on the bottom.
[[foldercontrol]]
[[folder:Liber8]]
* Why is Liber8 becoming more violent as of the finale and S2? Kagame already proved that Liber8 will only make gains in 2012 by explicitly refusing to kill people. Then he blew up an entire building! (Admittedly, it had been evacuated, but even so...) And now Sonya seems to be just as trigger-happy as Travis was, even if she's setting things up to deflect blame from Liber8 and onto other groups.
* Liber8 seems to have evolved into an anti-corporation in the truest sense. Instead of politicians being beholden to corporations and being their puppets, Liber8 is now making puppets of their own politicians. The natural question is, what's the point of Liber8 trying to avert a corporate-backed tyranny in 2077 if they're just going to create a mirror image of same? It's like the Bolsheviks essentially continuing the Tsarist repressive state apparatus instead of honestly doing away with it.
[[/folder]]
[[foldercontrol]]
[[folder:Liber8]]
* Why is Liber8 becoming more violent as of the finale and S2? Kagame already proved that Liber8 will only make gains in 2012 by explicitly refusing to kill people. Then he blew up an entire building! (Admittedly, it had been evacuated, but even so...) And now Sonya seems to be just as trigger-happy as Travis was, even if she's setting things up to deflect blame from Liber8 and onto other groups.
* Liber8 seems to have evolved into an anti-corporation in the truest sense. Instead of politicians being beholden to corporations and being their puppets, Liber8 is now making puppets of their own politicians. The natural question is, what's the point of Liber8 trying to avert a corporate-backed tyranny in 2077 if they're just going to create a mirror image of same? It's like the Bolsheviks essentially continuing the Tsarist repressive state apparatus instead of honestly doing away with it.
[[/folder]]
