History Headscratchers / BuffySeason5

4th Dec '16 3:59:17 PM detghost
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2nd Dec '16 5:45:01 PM SeanRenaud
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* Because we don't kill people. It's really supposed to be a case of BlackAndWhiteMorality but it's worth noticing that come season 7 Giles asks Buffy if she had the scenario to do over again would she kill Dawn and she answers yes. Later on in that same episode she flat out tells Robin that if he threatens Spike again she'll let Spike kill him. Which when combined with the speech Giles gives to Ben we're not really supposed ot think that it's 'bad' to kill Ben. But that Buffy is simply too good and in this case too good is TooDumbToLive because as stated above sooner or later Glory would have killed her. Buffy is often shown to be naive but GoodIsDumb is a fairly common trope.
2nd Dec '16 1:21:29 PM Kookiish
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[[folder: Giles killing Ben]]
Why is Giles killing Ben considered so bad? Yes, technically Ben was innocent, but keeping him alive is a terrible idea. Buffy's whole "don't kill humans" thing is generally okay, but Ben was sharing a body with Glory who was taking over for longer and longer periods of time. If Ben had remained alive, Glory would probably have taken him over again and wreaked havoc. We don't know what would have happened to her after the portal closed, but I assume her situation would have remained the same as before. She was just trying to get home, it wasn't a time limit for her existence on Earth. Maybe she would have eventually gone completely crazy, but she still would have been a huge danger. Leaving Ben alive simply because he's a human and not evil is not a good enough reason to endanger the whole world.
Also, Ben is not that good. He was incredibly selfish. I understand not wanting to die and his instinct for self-preservation, but by the end of the season, he had agreed not only to kill Dawn but to allow the portal to open and destroy multiple worlds in exchange for his own body and a place in Glory's dimension. That's definitely villainy. He knew if he died the threat of Glory would end but he didn't do anything about it. Wanting to live is not selfish in and of itself, but willingness to allow worlds to be sucked into a hell dimension so you don't die is. Giles was, in my opinion, completely in the right and despite what he said, more of a hero than Buffy was in that moment.
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2nd Dec '16 12:42:21 PM Kookiish
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** I think she's referred to as innocent by the monks at one point, not just Ben? But anyway, I think OP is taking "innocent" too literally. Teenage kleptomania and other ways of acting out doesn't make you not innocent. Dawn is a child who has a soul and is not evil. She's a good kid when it comes down to it. If you're taking innocent to mean having never done anything wrong or been mean or thought about anything negative then that's not only impossible but a completely implausible disguise for hiding the Key. She was made human along with all the fallacies of one, but she's still an innocent -- it's not like they made her into a creepy old lady who kidnapped children and killed puppies. Also, I don't see how self-mutilation makes you not innocent. Cutting yourself is obviously a bad thing, but not in terms of morality. It shouldn't be clumped in with cheating and kleptomania (unless it's related to the belief that you can't get into heaven if you commit suicide or something? I don't know how different religions view self-harm.)
8th Aug '16 6:18:41 PM jormis29
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** If that were true, let's hope the [[{{Exalted}} First and Forsaken Lion]] [[http://keychain.patternspider.net/archive/koc0005.html doesn't find her.]]

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** If that were true, let's hope the [[{{Exalted}} [[TabletopGame/{{Exalted}} First and Forsaken Lion]] [[http://keychain.patternspider.net/archive/koc0005.html doesn't find her.]]
15th Jul '16 9:43:21 AM windleopard
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15th Jul '16 9:42:05 AM windleopard
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[[folder: Dangers Of The Magic Shop.]]
In "Shadow", Giles unwittingly sells Glory the ingredients she needs to summon a demon to find Dawn. This is mitigated by the fact that Giles had no idea what Glory looked like at the time, but this just shows a serious issue with the gang using the shop at all. That they're unintentionally providing people with the means to carry out wicked deeds. Why didn't this ever come up in conversation?
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19th Feb '16 6:55:47 PM timemonkey
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*** There's not much point nitpicking the word 'cleric', the Buffyverse has it's own terminology for such things and we don't actually know what else someone who wields a gods power would be called. Warlock isn't actually a term for a boy witch in the real world either but it is in their world. We've already got witches, shamans, technopagans, sorcerers, etc, what's one more term?
15th Dec '15 12:34:42 AM Luppercus
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***Isnít the pre-Dawn universe like the Wishverse? I mean, all that happened before season 5 still happened as we originally saw it, and I guess if the multiple universe theory is truth in the Buffyverse there is a Dawnless universe somewhere that kept happening without Dawn (which I would love to see those seasons, anyway).
13th Mar '15 6:51:21 AM bwburke94
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* So, in "The Gift" Buffy's suicide closes the dimensional portal even though Buffy is (as far as we know) not a Key and Dawn is still bleeding. Isn't that case of YouFailLogicForever? Even if Dawn is made of Buffy, a conclusion that Buffy pretty much pulled out of her ass, this still wouldn't have made Buffy a Key, would it? Isn't Dawn a combination of a mystical Key energy and a human? Presumably the Key part comes from her energy days, not Buffy. In other words, the cause and effect chain is in the opposite direction - if Buffy was made of Dawn she would have a case but not vice versa. And even if Buffy was somehow a Key, the blood of Dawn was still flowing when the portal closed. It would have been nice if Buffy had tried to, you know, put some bandages on Dawn first and see if that wouldn't close the portal...

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* So, in "The Gift" Buffy's suicide closes the dimensional portal even though Buffy is (as far as we know) not a Key and Dawn is still bleeding. Isn't that case of YouFailLogicForever? a plot hole? Even if Dawn is made of Buffy, a conclusion that Buffy pretty much pulled out of her ass, this still wouldn't have made Buffy a Key, would it? Isn't Dawn a combination of a mystical Key energy and a human? Presumably the Key part comes from her energy days, not Buffy. In other words, the cause and effect chain is in the opposite direction - if Buffy was made of Dawn she would have a case but not vice versa. And even if Buffy was somehow a Key, the blood of Dawn was still flowing when the portal closed. It would have been nice if Buffy had tried to, you know, put some bandages on Dawn first and see if that wouldn't close the portal...
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