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** Full morons are literally too retarded to be of any value- even Epsilons need to be able to understand orders. Moron in this case refers to a mental disorder.
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** Full morons are literally too retarded to be of any value- even Epsilons need to be able to understand orders. Moron in this case refers to a mental disorder.disorder.
* So, the Epsilons are supposedly needed because someone has to do the dirty work and labor-saving gadgets are supposedly not implemented because then the Epsilons get bored. Why wouldn't they just implement the labor-saving gadgets and make fewer Epsilons?
* So, the Epsilons are supposedly needed because someone has to do the dirty work and labor-saving gadgets are supposedly not implemented because then the Epsilons get bored. Why wouldn't they just implement the labor-saving gadgets and make fewer Epsilons?
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***** They like those things because they were programmed to; had everyone not been influenced by hypnopaedic conditioning, they wouldn't be content in the superficial lives they lead. If you are essentially brainwashed into liking something, do you REALLY like it?
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** The surnames in the book are mostly from 18th-20th century history. Possibly the World State was attempting to commemorate certain approved historical figures (and perhaps also converting them to icons having little connection to historical reality, much as they did with "Our Ford").
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Removing Understatement sinkhole
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*** I think the key point is not that people are "getting everything they value", but that they value those things because they were trained to do so from early age. And of course, there's that whole part where they actively manipulate fetuses to make them stupider on purpose. [[{{Understatement}} Not cool]].
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*** I think the key point is not that people are "getting everything they value", but that they value those things because they were trained to do so from early age. And of course, there's that whole part where they actively manipulate fetuses to make them stupider on purpose. [[{{Understatement}} Not cool]].cool.
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** Ah, that's a very good question, but my belief is that it's to differentiate people who have the same first name. That was actually the original purpose of surnames.
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** Full morons are literally too retarded to be of any value- even Epsilons need to be able to understand orders.
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** Full morons are literally too retarded to be of any value- even Epsilons need to be able to understand orders. Moron in this case refers to a mental disorder.
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* The Epsilons, who are at the bottom of the gene pool, are called 'semi-morons'. What are full morons then?
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* The Epsilons, who are at the bottom of the gene pool, are called 'semi-morons'. What are full morons then?then?
** Full morons are literally too retarded to be of any value- even Epsilons need to be able to understand orders.
** Full morons are literally too retarded to be of any value- even Epsilons need to be able to understand orders.
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** Because both books are well-known examples of dystopias (or at least, ''Brave New World'' was ''meant'' as a dystopia...read the first question on this page and its answers, they explore that idea more thoroughly than this question warrants). Also, it could be that most people [[SmallReferencePools can't list too many dystopic novels off the top of their head]] (usually getting no further than ''NineteenEightyFour'', ''BraveNewWorld'', and ''{{Fahrenheit 451}}'', so...yeah.)
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** Because both books are well-known examples of dystopias (or at least, ''Brave New World'' was ''meant'' as a dystopia...read the first question on this page and its answers, they explore that idea more thoroughly than this question warrants). Also, it could be that most people [[SmallReferencePools can't list too many dystopic novels off the top of their head]] (usually getting no further than ''NineteenEightyFour'', ''BraveNewWorld'', and ''{{Fahrenheit 451}}'', so...yeah.))
* Why do World State inhabitants have last names? Those seem to be a relic from the past that there's no reason for the World State to preserve, considering its offensive connotation of the family institution.
* The Epsilons, who are at the bottom of the gene pool, are called 'semi-morons'. What are full morons then?
* Why do World State inhabitants have last names? Those seem to be a relic from the past that there's no reason for the World State to preserve, considering its offensive connotation of the family institution.
* The Epsilons, who are at the bottom of the gene pool, are called 'semi-morons'. What are full morons then?
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** [[ShapedLikeItself To make way for the next generation]]. They almost certainly have the technology to avert it if the controllers thought that was a good idea, but if they do it goes the same way as labour-saving machines.
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** Bear in mind that some (not all) of those setting up the "experiment" would have been ...keen to see it fail.
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doesn\'t seem to be a \'\'question\'\'
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** Because both books are well-known examples of dystopias (or at least, ''Brave New World'' was ''meant'' as a dystopia...read the first question on this page and its answers, they explore that idea more thoroughly than this question warrants). Also, it could be that most people [[SmallReferencePools can't list too many dystopic novels off the top of their head]] (usually getting no further than ''NineteenEightyFour'', ''BraveNewWorld'', and ''{{Fahrenheit 451}}'', so...yeah.)
!! For [[FanFic/BraveNewWorld the fanfic]]:
* Delia is now ''Pikachu's'' mother, and Ash was just adopted...
!! For [[FanFic/BraveNewWorld the fanfic]]:
* Delia is now ''Pikachu's'' mother, and Ash was just adopted...
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** Because both books are well-known examples of dystopias (or at least, ''Brave New World'' was ''meant'' as a dystopia...read the first question on this page and its answers, they explore that idea more thoroughly than this question warrants). Also, it could be that most people [[SmallReferencePools can't list too many dystopic novels off the top of their head]] (usually getting no further than ''NineteenEightyFour'', ''BraveNewWorld'', and ''{{Fahrenheit 451}}'', so...yeah.)
!! For [[FanFic/BraveNewWorld the fanfic]]:
* Delia is now ''Pikachu's'' mother, and Ash was just adopted...
)
!! For [[FanFic/BraveNewWorld the fanfic]]:
* Delia is now ''Pikachu's'' mother, and Ash was just adopted...
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Explaining why people compare this book to Nineteen Eighty-Four.
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** Because both books are well-known examples of dystopias (or at least, ''Brave New World'' was ''meant'' as a dystopia...read the first question on this page and its answers, they explore that idea more thoroughly than this question warrants). Also, it could be that most people [[SmallReferencePools can't list too many dystopic novels off the top of their head]] (usually getting no further than ''NineteenEightyFour'', ''BraveNewWorld'', and ''{{Fahrenheit 451}}'', so...yeah.)
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* Why is this book often compared to [[NineteenEightyFour 1984]]? It's disproportionate: Brave New World is a Utopian wet dream compared to ''that''.
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*** I think the key point is not that people are "getting everything they value", but that they value those things because they were trained to do so from early age. And of course, there's that whole part where they actively manipulate fetuses to make them stupider on purpose. [[{{Understatement Not cool}}.
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*** I think the key point is not that people are "getting everything they value", but that they value those things because they were trained to do so from early age. And of course, there's that whole part where they actively manipulate fetuses to make them stupider on purpose. [[{{Understatement [[{{Understatement}} Not cool}}.cool]].
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*** I think the key point is not that people are "getting everything they value", but that they value those things because they were trained to do so from early age. And of course, there's that whole part where they actively manipulate fetuses to make them stupider on purpose. [[{{Understatement Not cool}}.
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** Given individuality is key in pursuign science, philosophy and art... not really. In this utopia, the only kind of science, philosophy and art that can be pursued is the "mass-produced" kind. But it's obvious this sort of philosophy is useless, this kind of art is barely art(more like a craft) and this sort of science(government funded and focused on goals instead of discovery) would make Carl Sagan cry.
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** Pretty much. Mond had mentioned that there was a huge archive of labor-saving devices not in use because it would render a good bulk of the population effectively unemployed, right? They should have started with a standard BNW ratio of classes on Cyprus and then experimented with adding those inventions to the society and determining what the new optimum ratio would be, with the eventual goal of applying it to the world at large.
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reasoning, adding another theory
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* In the Island experiment, everyone was an Alpha citzen and all the islanders considered themselves above tasks for the lower classes, and things went downhill … and fast. However, wasn't that experiment ''already'' doomed to fail even before it began? I kept thinking: all Alpha citizens are conditioned since birth to behave like '''exactly like that''', relishing their inteligence while priding themselves as above those of the lower classes, ''even if those jobs needed to be done''.
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* They may disagree about whether it's worth it, but all of the characters seem to accept that maintaining a society where people are happy and comfortable requires sacrificing everything else that people might value. Is it so hard to imagine that people could be happy ''and'' pursue science, philosophy, and art?
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* If the people in Brave New World don't have age related frailty and disease, why do they still die when they're old?
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***** And so did the people in IngSoc like the society, and Big Brother, in [[NineteenEightyFour 1984]], or else. Just because a society ''likes'' their world doesn't mean it's ''right''. Not to mention, no free will and a caste system.
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***** And so did the people in IngSoc like the society, and Big Brother, in [[NineteenEightyFour 1984]], or else. Just because a society ''likes'' their world doesn't mean it's ''right''. Not to mention, no free will and a caste system.
system.
** Just because you or I wouldn't want to live there and we find their cultural norms disturbing doesn't make it immoral. If the general population is sincerely happy and getting everything they value, than there's no problem. It's up for interpretation, though, whether the people there are truly happy. If they're all walking around smiling with repressed malaise, than the word 'dystopia' becomes more accurate.
** Just because you or I wouldn't want to live there and we find their cultural norms disturbing doesn't make it immoral. If the general population is sincerely happy and getting everything they value, than there's no problem. It's up for interpretation, though, whether the people there are truly happy. If they're all walking around smiling with repressed malaise, than the word 'dystopia' becomes more accurate.
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***** And so did the people in IngSoc like the society, and Big Brother, in [[NineteenEightyFour 1984]], or else. Just because a society ''likes'' their world doesn't mean it's ''right''. Not to mention, no free will and a caste system.
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****People LIKE the society in Brave New World. They like having soma and free love, and there are no real responsibilities.
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***People are stuck in predetermined castes, the idea of free thought is pretty much gone, and the idea of morality appears to have kicked the bucket as well. And the worst part? The people did it to themselves.
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This is not a Headscratcher. It\'s Fridge Brilliance, and it is not a question.
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* There are several cases in the Arcean Order where something Arceus does or allows contradicts a previous moral rule. The Order's response is "it's okay because Arceus said so". Note that this is not meant to be taken as a "shut up and follow the religion", but as Arceus ''[[ScrewtheRulesIMakeThem actually rewriting the structure of the universe]] such that this exception is permitted''.
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It\'s a separate example.
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** Several cases in the Arcean Order, where occasionally something Arceus does or allows contradicts a previous moral rule. The Order's response is "it's okay because Arceus said so". Note that this is not meant to be taken as a "shut up and follow the religion", but as Arceus ''[[ScrewtheRulesIMakeThem actually rewriting the structure of the universe]] such that this exception is permitted''.
*** Is this a seperate IJBM, or is that supposed to be a response to the original question? Or is that an example of {{Fridge Brilliance}}, or is that a seperate IJBM?
*** Is this a seperate IJBM, or is that supposed to be a response to the original question? Or is that an example of {{Fridge Brilliance}}, or is that a seperate IJBM?
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*** Is this a seperate IJBM, or is that supposed to be a response to the original question? Or is that an example of {{Fridge Brilliance}}, or is that a seperate IJBM?
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** Everyone's life is based around sex. They do that as [[{{Squick}} young children]]. They replaced [[PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad God with Ford.]] Technology is used to repress. People are injected with [[ScienceMarchesOn alcohol to stunt growth]], and the entire society revolves around [[HappinessInSlavery essentially pre-conditioned slaves.]] And society's [[BreadAndCircuses entertainment]] consists of [[DrugsAreBad Soma]] and [[SexIsEvil sex.]] Finally, people are bred to revolve around materialism, and [[CrapsackWorld it's a dictatorship.]] Basically, it's only great if you are an Alpha or Beta, and [[CompletelyMissingThePoint you're as superficial]] [[DracoInLeatherPants as the people in the story]]. And, need I remind you, everyone was happy in [[TheGiver The Giver]] too, and that is a ''definite'' [[{{Dystopia}} dystopia]].
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** The idea is that it is horrible because no-one is allowed to be individuals. There is a loss of True Art (and writers hate loss of True Art), and you are unable to feel any trials and thus grow from them. Plus it is kinda implied that those islands are kinda like the 'showers' in those 'camps' if you know what I mean...
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!! For The Book:
* What's so horrible about this society? It's certainly not perfect, but dystopian? Really? Everyone seems happy, and if you aren't then you get to spend all your time with similar people on an island of your choice.
* What's so horrible about this society? It's certainly not perfect, but dystopian? Really? Everyone seems happy, and if you aren't then you get to spend all your time with similar people on an island of your choice.
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** Several cases in the Arcean Order, where occasionally something Arceus does or allows contradicts a previous moral rule. The Order's response is "it's okay because Arceus said so". Note that this is not meant to be taken as a "shut up and follow the religion", but as Arceus ''[[ScrewtheRulesIMakeThem actually rewriting the structure of the universe]] such that this exception is permitted''.
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** Several cases in the Arcean Order, where occasionally something Arceus does or allows contradicts a previous moral rule. The Order's response is "it's okay because Arceus said so". Note that this is not meant to be taken as a "shut up and follow the religion", but as Arceus ''[[ScrewtheRulesIMakeThem actually rewriting the structure of the universe]] such that this exception is permitted''.permitted''.
*** Is this a seperate IJBM, or is that supposed to be a response to the original question? Or is that an example of {{Fridge Brilliance}}, or is that a seperate IJBM?
*** Is this a seperate IJBM, or is that supposed to be a response to the original question? Or is that an example of {{Fridge Brilliance}}, or is that a seperate IJBM?
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(Both the [[{{Ptitlei015gc004kw4}} Pokémon]] fanfic and the Huxley novel of this title point to this JustBugsMe page.)
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!! For the fanfic:
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