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** There's actually a very brief indication that he can switch between forms at will. When the villagers break into the castle, he appears in his normal candelabra form, only to switch to his human-molded body when the castle staff attack. It seems like his normal candelabra form is supposed to be his resting, less animate form (analogous to his introduction in the 1991 original, when he is shown to be able to hide his eyes and mouth). At any rate, it's an unusual creative decision to give him two forms that he switch ack and forth from.

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** There's actually a very brief indication that he can switch between forms at will. When the villagers break into the castle, he appears in his normal candelabra form, only to switch to his human-molded human-shaped body when the castle staff attack. It seems like his normal candelabra form is supposed to be his resting, less animate form (analogous to his introduction in the 1991 original, when he is shown to be able to hide his eyes and mouth). At any rate, it's an unusual creative decision to give him two forms that he switch ack back and forth from.
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Contributing to discussion on Lumiere's shapeshifting in the film.

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** There's actually a very brief indication that he can switch between forms at will. When the villagers break into the castle, he appears in his normal candelabra form, only to switch to his human-molded body when the castle staff attack. It seems like his normal candelabra form is supposed to be his resting, less animate form (analogous to his introduction in the 1991 original, when he is shown to be able to hide his eyes and mouth). At any rate, it's an unusual creative decision to give him two forms that he switch ack and forth from.
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Answering some headscratchers.

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*** Why wouldn't she? I mean, it's a HUGE castle. If I were Chip I would love to go there, so I suppose he just asked his mother if he could come with her on her workday.


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** I suppose that the enchantress is some all knowing being. She knew exactly where Maurice was tied up, she knew where Belle and Beast were at the end of the movie to break the curse. I'm pretty sure that she planned everything out and that she expected Belle to arrive at the castle one day and it probably was just one big plan to teach the prince a lesson.
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* I get the idea of people wanted a better reason WHY the Enchantress did what she did, but in the attempt they actually made things worse story wise? I mean she blames the servants for not raising the Prince properly...forgetting they are SERVANTS to ROYALITY, if they tried to disobey the Prince's Dad; at best they are unemployed...worse they are killed. She hides the castle from all...solving the problem of nobody knowing about it but also greatly reducing the chances of a girl finding the place to break the spell till she makes sure Maurice gets there and Belle following. Not to mention all the shattered families (Mr Potts, Cogsworth's Wife). Its getting to the point the more you look at it the more the original version's "Stupid Idiot refusing Sacred Hospitality and getting punished" makes more sense.
** She doesn't necessarily blame them, ''they'' blames themselves. Although they cannot directly interfere, it's not outside the realm of possibility to coax him from afar. The amount of servants implies an absentee father-- common amongst nobility of that time. In fact, few even raised their own children. Regardless, a curse isn't meant to be fair. As mentioned above, we have no idea what any were like prior to the curse. Some were likely victims of being at the wrong place at the wrong time (Ms Potts, Chip) but others could have similar narcissist personalities that were humbled over time.

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* I get the idea of people wanted a better reason WHY the Enchantress did what she did, but in the attempt they actually made things worse story wise? I mean she blames the servants for not raising the Prince properly...forgetting they are SERVANTS to ROYALITY, if they tried to disobey the Prince's Dad; at best they are unemployed...worse they are killed. She hides the castle from all...solving the problem of nobody knowing about it but also greatly reducing the chances of a girl finding the place to break the spell till she makes sure Maurice gets there and Belle following. Not to mention all the shattered families (Mr (Mr. Potts, Cogsworth's Wife). Its getting to the point the more you look at it the more the original version's "Stupid Idiot refusing Sacred Hospitality and getting punished" makes more sense.
** She doesn't necessarily blame them, ''they'' blames blame themselves. Although they cannot directly interfere, it's not outside the realm of possibility to coax him from afar. The amount of servants implies an absentee father-- common amongst nobility of that time. In fact, few even raised their own children. Regardless, a curse isn't meant to be fair. As mentioned above, we have no idea what any of them were like prior to the curse. Some were likely victims of being at the wrong place at the wrong time (Ms (Mrs. Potts, Chip) but others could have had similar narcissist narcissistic personalities that were humbled over time.
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*** Gaston's introduction makes it clear he was in the Seven Years War, achieving the rank of captain. If it has been 12 years since that time, it's the year 1775--in June, after Lexington and Concord. News of the American Revolution has not yet reached the Beast's principality, so no one in the village is yet gossiping about it.
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** She doesn't necessarily blame them, ''they'' blames themselves. Although they cannot directly interfere, it's not outside the realm of possibility to coax him from afar. The amount of servants implies an absentee father-- common amongst nobility of that time. In fact, few even raised their own children. Regardless, a curse isn't meant to be fair. As mentioned above, we have no idea what any were like prior to the curse. Some were likely victims of being at the wrong place at the wrong time (Ms Potts, Chip) but others could have similar narcissist personalities that were humbled over time.
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** Something to keep in mind is flowers wilt faster as they inevitably die. One could assume it took significantly longer at first, but as the years/decades past, it grew weaker. Who's to say the Enchantress didn't intend for that outcome either?
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* I get the idea of people wanted a better reason WHY the Enchantress did what she did, but in the attempt they actually made things worse story wise? I mean she blames the servants for not raising the Prince properly...forgetting they are SERVANTS to ROYALITY, if they tried to disobey the Prince's Dad; at best they are unemployed...worse they are killed. She hides the castle from all...solving the problem of nobody knowing about it but also greatly reducing the chances of a girl finding the place to break the spell till she makes sure Maurice gets there and Belle following. Not to mention all the shattered families (Mr Potts, Cogsworth's Wife). Its getting to the point the more you look at it the more the original version's "Stupid Idiot refusing Sacred Hospitality and getting punished" makes more sense.

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* I get the idea of people wanted a better reason WHY the Enchantress did what she did, but in the attempt they actually made things worse story wise? I mean she blames the servants for not raising the Prince properly...forgetting they are SERVANTS to ROYALITY, if they tried to disobey the Prince's Dad; at best they are unemployed...worse they are killed. She hides the castle from all...solving the problem of nobody knowing about it but also greatly reducing the chances of a girl finding the place to break the spell till she makes sure Maurice gets there and Belle following. Not to mention all the shattered families (Mr Potts, Cogsworth's Wife). Its getting to the point the more you look at it the more the original version's "Stupid Idiot refusing Sacred Hospitality and getting punished" makes more sense.sense.
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** But what about Mr. Potts? Technically he shouldn't have been there at ALL since the Potts live in the village, if Mrs. Potts had to go to the castle to help with the big fancy party we assume in the late afternoon/evening...why in Hades did she bring Chip along?



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[[folder: Expanding the Enchantress's Role made the original plot holes worse...]]
* I get the idea of people wanted a better reason WHY the Enchantress did what she did, but in the attempt they actually made things worse story wise? I mean she blames the servants for not raising the Prince properly...forgetting they are SERVANTS to ROYALITY, if they tried to disobey the Prince's Dad; at best they are unemployed...worse they are killed. She hides the castle from all...solving the problem of nobody knowing about it but also greatly reducing the chances of a girl finding the place to break the spell till she makes sure Maurice gets there and Belle following. Not to mention all the shattered families (Mr Potts, Cogsworth's Wife). Its getting to the point the more you look at it the more the original version's "Stupid Idiot refusing Sacred Hospitality and getting punished" makes more sense.
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** It's very difficult to know because there's a law in France that makes it illegal to collect data on ethnicity and race - a law established in the late 1700s at that. There was mass immigration to France in the 1800s as the Industrial Revolution happened. There's an unofficial survey that estimates about 50,000 African-Americans emigrated to France from Louisiana after Napoleon sold the territory to the United States - and that was 1803. The French also had colonies in Africa since the 1600s so yes there would be travel back and forth. It's also important to remember that the idea of ethnic diversity being a new thing is OlderThanTheyThink - it's just that the old Hollywood movies employed MonochromeCasting to make it look like everywhere was white at first. But there has always been ''some'' travel between the continents. Europe and Africa are quite close to each other, and the Romans went to Africa and recruited slaves; slavery in France continued up to the 1790s and it was very fashionable among the nobility to have a African/Moorish page or maid. So while there may not have been sprawling communities, there definitely were immigrants and escaped slaves scattered about.

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** It's very difficult to know because there's a law in France that makes it illegal to collect data on ethnicity and race - a law established in the late 1700s at that. There was mass immigration to France in the 1800s as the Industrial Revolution happened. There's an unofficial survey that estimates about 50,000 African-Americans emigrated to France from Louisiana after Napoleon sold the territory to the United States - and that was 1803. The French also had colonies in Africa since the 1600s so yes there would be travel back and forth. It's also important to remember that the idea of ethnic diversity being a new thing is OlderThanTheyThink - it's just that the old Hollywood movies employed MonochromeCasting to make it look like everywhere was white at first. But there has always been ''some'' travel between the continents. Europe and Africa are quite close to each other, and the Romans went to Africa and recruited slaves; slavery in France continued up to the 1790s and it was very fashionable among the nobility to have a African/Moorish page or maid. So while there may not have been sprawling communities, there definitely were immigrants immigrants, their descendants, and escaped or freed slaves scattered about.
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** It's very difficult to know because there's a law in France that makes it illegal to collect data on ethnicity and race - a law established in the late 1700s at that. There was mass immigration to France in the 1800s as the Industrial Revolution happened. There's an unofficial survey that estimates about 50,000 African-Americans emigrated to France from Louisiana after Napoleon sold the territory to the United States - and that was 1803. The French also had colonies in Africa since the 1600s so yes there would be travel back and forth. It's also important to remember that the idea of ethnic diversity being a new thing is OlderThanTheyThink - it's just that the old Hollywood movies employed MonochromeCasting to make it look like everywhere was white at first. But there has always been ''some'' travel between the continents. Europe and Africa are quite close to each other, and the Romans went to Africa and recruited slaves. So while there may not have been sprawling communities, there definitely were immigrants scattered about.

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** It's very difficult to know because there's a law in France that makes it illegal to collect data on ethnicity and race - a law established in the late 1700s at that. There was mass immigration to France in the 1800s as the Industrial Revolution happened. There's an unofficial survey that estimates about 50,000 African-Americans emigrated to France from Louisiana after Napoleon sold the territory to the United States - and that was 1803. The French also had colonies in Africa since the 1600s so yes there would be travel back and forth. It's also important to remember that the idea of ethnic diversity being a new thing is OlderThanTheyThink - it's just that the old Hollywood movies employed MonochromeCasting to make it look like everywhere was white at first. But there has always been ''some'' travel between the continents. Europe and Africa are quite close to each other, and the Romans went to Africa and recruited slaves. slaves; slavery in France continued up to the 1790s and it was very fashionable among the nobility to have a African/Moorish page or maid. So while there may not have been sprawling communities, there definitely were immigrants and escaped slaves scattered about.
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** It's not stated but I assume it's the real deal. They visited the actual place where Belle and her family lived. Perhaps this was the Enchantress giving the Beast an opportunity? The Beast calls it a cruel trick, but maybe it was her way of giving him the chance to go out and meet people in other areas.


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** The curse does seem to have a range as to who it affects, at least from what we see in the prologue. The ones who got out of the way weren't turned into anything. We can assume Mr Potts was also a servant, but he ran out in time. Chip can be seen running towards the Enchantress and Mrs Potts scooping him up. So it looks like he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
** Alternately the Enchantress cursed him so he wouldn't be left without his mother. At least if he's cursed, he and his mother are together in the enchantment.


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** It's very difficult to know because there's a law in France that makes it illegal to collect data on ethnicity and race - a law established in the late 1700s at that. There was mass immigration to France in the 1800s as the Industrial Revolution happened. There's an unofficial survey that estimates about 50,000 African-Americans emigrated to France from Louisiana after Napoleon sold the territory to the United States - and that was 1803. The French also had colonies in Africa since the 1600s so yes there would be travel back and forth. It's also important to remember that the idea of ethnic diversity being a new thing is OlderThanTheyThink - it's just that the old Hollywood movies employed MonochromeCasting to make it look like everywhere was white at first. But there has always been ''some'' travel between the continents. Europe and Africa are quite close to each other, and the Romans went to Africa and recruited slaves. So while there may not have been sprawling communities, there definitely were immigrants scattered about.
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* Not that this is a problem, but how did so many people of African descent wind up in an isolated, Late-Renaissance french village? Is this 21st century political correctness at work, or TruthInTelevision ?

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* Not that this is a problem, but how did so many people of African descent wind up in an isolated, provincial, Late-Renaissance french French village? Is this 21st century political correctness at work, or TruthInTelevision ?
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[[folder: Ethnic diversity in 1700's France]]
* Not that this is a problem, but how did so many people of African descent wind up in an isolated, Late-Renaissance french village? Is this 21st century political correctness at work, or TruthInTelevision ?

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* This was a problem with the original movie and it's even more of a problem now with the backstory explained: why in all the seven hells is Chip cursed? He's a little kid! It's not like he raised the prince to be as he was or like he could be expected to speak up for the Enchantress against all the adults there. He just had the bad luck to be in the castle at the time. What kind of BlueAndOrangeMorality is this?[[/folder]]

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* This was a problem with the original movie and it's even more of a problem now with the backstory explained: why in all the seven hells is Chip cursed? He's a little kid! It's not like he raised the prince to be as he was or like he could be expected to speak up for the Enchantress against all the adults there. He just had the bad luck to be in the castle at the time. What kind of BlueAndOrangeMorality is this?[[/folder]]this?
** Simply put, just because he was in the castle at the time the curse took affect. Cadenza and Garderobe were not servants of the prince, they were only performing there. But they were caught up in it too. The curse isn't going to skip over Chip just because of his age. It may not be fair, but it *is* a curse and all...
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** I got the sense that it was some kind of magical double world, like a copy that doesn't have people in it, because it's day at the castle but it's night in Paris. Alternatively, he was more confident to go outside because it was nighttime, or he just wanted to impress Belle and didn't care about what people thought.
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* This was a problem with the original movie and it's even more of a problem now with the backstory explained: why in all the seven hells is Chip cursed? He's a little kid! It's not like he raised the prince to be as he was or like he could be expected to speak up for the Enchantress against all the adults there. He just had the bad luck to be in the castle at the time. What kind of BlueAndOrangeMorality is this?

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* This was a problem with the original movie and it's even more of a problem now with the backstory explained: why in all the seven hells is Chip cursed? He's a little kid! It's not like he raised the prince to be as he was or like he could be expected to speak up for the Enchantress against all the adults there. He just had the bad luck to be in the castle at the time. What kind of BlueAndOrangeMorality is this?this?[[/folder]]
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[[folder:Why Chip?]]
* This was a problem with the original movie and it's even more of a problem now with the backstory explained: why in all the seven hells is Chip cursed? He's a little kid! It's not like he raised the prince to be as he was or like he could be expected to speak up for the Enchantress against all the adults there. He just had the bad luck to be in the castle at the time. What kind of BlueAndOrangeMorality is this?
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[[folder:That dang book]]
* I get how it fits thematically (Books as an escape!) but that dang book creates so many questions. They can touch and take objects, so it seems to be real rather than illusion. The Beast says "The outside world is no place for a Beast" but then he goes with Belle and suggests they visit some landmarks. Are they invisible or did he just feel like trolling Parisians?
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** Right, and the Beast is a prince, and in the opening scene most of the people are wearing white wigs popular in the mid to late 1700's. But Gaston came back from a war, perhaps the French Revolution? That would set Beauty and the Beast sometime after 1799. '' But, '' the inhabitants of the castle don't age, and while Mrs. Potts does look younger than her grey-haired husband, the age gap is definitaly not more than 40 years. It might even be as little as 10 years.
*** According to Gaston's actor, Luke Evans [[http://www.refinery29.com/2017/03/145212/luke-evans-gaston-beauty-and-the-beast-character]], Gaston was sixteen years old when he protected Villeneuve from Portuguese marauders in 1740. Assuming Gaston is supposed to be about as old as his actor (37), that would place the events of the film in the 1760's.[[/folder]]

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** Right, and the Beast is a prince, and in the opening scene most of the people are wearing white wigs popular in the mid to late 1700's. But Gaston came back from a war, perhaps the French Revolution? That would set Beauty and the Beast sometime after 1799. '' But, '' the inhabitants of the castle don't age, and while Mrs. Potts does look younger than her grey-haired husband, the age gap is definitaly definitely not more than 40 years. It might even be as little as 10 years.
*** According to Gaston's actor, Luke Evans [[http://www.refinery29.com/2017/03/145212/luke-evans-gaston-beauty-and-the-beast-character]], Gaston was sixteen years old when he protected Villeneuve from Portuguese marauders in 1740. Assuming Gaston is supposed to be about as old as his actor (37), that would place the events of the film in the 1760's.[[/folder]]1760's.
** We could assume that maybe it's been in effect longer than Belle and Maurice have been in the village - since neither of them finds it familiar whereas the other villagers do. We can assume Belle is meant to be younger than Emma is - possibly just twenty - and she was a toddler when they left Paris. So that puts it at around eighteen years.
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** AWizardDidIt. Literally. He's a magic candelabra who can twist himself around. Plumette, Chip and Mrs Potts can fly to an extent, so it's just part of his enchantment.
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[[folder:Why were Candenza and Mme Garderobe cursed?]]
* According to the novelization, they were just visiting the area and performing at the prince's party - as opposed to being among the servants who turned a blind eye and did nothing. So why were they punished along with the servants?
** There is a small moment in the prologue. When the Enchantress in disguise knocks on the door, you see Mme Garderobe turning around - and she's got a very angry look on her face. She looks furious that her singing was interrupted and possibly that's the reason she didn't help. We know nothing of her personality from before she was cursed, and she could have been a complete diva and thus suffered BreakTheHaughty.
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** He does look very different, but I sort of thought maybe he could twist himself up into the candelabra form. The first form does have a head, and the base could ''maybe'' be his torso twisted around if you squint (looks painful), but his arms would have to stretch twice as long.

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*** According to Gaston's actor, Luke Evans [[http://www.refinery29.com/2017/03/145212/luke-evans-gaston-beauty-and-the-beast-character]], Gaston was sixteen years old when he protected Villeneuve from Portuguese marauders in 1740. Assuming Gaston is supposed to be about as old as his actor (37), that would place the events of the film in the 1760's.

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*** According to Gaston's actor, Luke Evans [[http://www.refinery29.com/2017/03/145212/luke-evans-gaston-beauty-and-the-beast-character]], Gaston was sixteen years old when he protected Villeneuve from Portuguese marauders in 1740. Assuming Gaston is supposed to be about as old as his actor (37), that would place the events of the film in the 1760's.[[/folder]]
[[folder:How did Lumiere suddenly form a body at the beginning?]]
* The first time we see him, he's a regular candelabra like in the animated film. In the very next scene, he suddenly has a body and can move around freely. There's no implication that he's able to switch between forms, and the only time we see him as a full candelabra again is when [[spoiler:he transforms into an inanimate one towards the end]].

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It's still laced up in the back, I can understand she ripped it but how?[[/folder]]

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It's still laced up in the back, I can understand she ripped it but how?[[/folder]]how?
* Probably the side seams. She can't reach the stays in back, but the sides are within easy reach.[[/folder]]
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*** According to Gaston's actor, Luke Evans [[http://www.refinery29.com/2017/03/145212/luke-evans-gaston-beauty-and-the-beast-character]], Gaston was sixteen years old when he protected Villeneuve from Portuguese marauders in 1740. Assuming Gaston is supposed to be about as old as his actor (37), that would place the events of the film in the 1760's.

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* Unlike in the original story, where the curse had a clear beginning (ten years ago) and a clear end (the prince's twenty-first year), they're more coy about the passage of time. However, this just raises more questions. We see petals falling while Belle is at the castle, and there are four left when he lets her go. So that means in the day or so it took for her to go there and come back, ''four'' petals fell. Assuming they fall at a set rate, how long has the curse been in effect, anyway?[[/folder]]

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* Unlike in the original story, where the curse had a clear beginning (ten years ago) and a clear end (the prince's twenty-first year), they're more coy about the passage of time. However, this just raises more questions. We see petals falling while Belle is at the castle, and there are four left when he lets her go. So that means in the day or so it took for her to go there and come back, ''four'' petals fell. Assuming they fall at a set rate, how long has the curse been in effect, anyway?[[/folder]]anyway?
**Right, and the Beast is a prince, and in the opening scene most of the people are wearing white wigs popular in the mid to late 1700's. But Gaston came back from a war, perhaps the French Revolution? That would set Beauty and the Beast sometime after 1799. '' But, '' the inhabitants of the castle don't age, and while Mrs. Potts does look younger than her grey-haired husband, the age gap is definitaly not more than 40 years. It might even be as little as 10 years.
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* It's still laced up in the back, I can understand she ripped it but how?[[/folder]]

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* It's still laced up in the back, I can understand she ripped it but how?[[/folder]]how?[[/folder]]
[[folder:How long has the curse been a thing?]]
* Unlike in the original story, where the curse had a clear beginning (ten years ago) and a clear end (the prince's twenty-first year), they're more coy about the passage of time. However, this just raises more questions. We see petals falling while Belle is at the castle, and there are four left when he lets her go. So that means in the day or so it took for her to go there and come back, ''four'' petals fell. Assuming they fall at a set rate, how long has the curse been in effect, anyway?[[/folder]]
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[[AC:How did Belle manage to get her dress off that quickly while riding a horse?]]
* It's still laced up in the back, I can understand she ripped it but how?

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[[AC:How [[folder:How did Belle manage to get her dress off that quickly while riding a horse?]]
* It's still laced up in the back, I can understand she ripped it but how?how?[[/folder]]

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How did Belle manage to get her dress off that quickly while riding a horse? It's still laced up in the back, I can understand she ripped it but how?

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How [[AC:How did Belle manage to get her dress off that quickly while riding a horse? horse?]]
*
It's still laced up in the back, I can understand she ripped it but how?
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How did Belle manage to get her dress off that quickly while riding a horse? It's still laced up in the back, I can understand she ripped it but how?

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