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****** Wrong. She lost becuase she couldn't see Aang. He attacked her in the air, and Toph can't see non-earth things in the air. It's very simple.
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*** Aye, remember, she can't swim.
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*** I agree with the sentiment, but I would like to point out that Toph can see perfectly fine on wood - she found a whole, obviously wooden sandskimmer just by stubbing her toe on it, remember? She just can't bend on wood is all.
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*** I agree with the sentiment, but I would like to point out that Toph can see perfectly fine on wood - she found a whole, obviously wooden sandskimmer just by stubbing her toe on it, remember? She just can't bend It's more likely that she was hanging on wood is all.because the entire village was suspended over water.
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*** I agree with the sentiment, but I would like to point out that Toph can see perfectly fine on wood - she found a whole, obviously wooden sandskimmer just by stubbing her toe on it, remember? She just can't bend on wood is all.
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**** While all very, very true and I don't come close to condoning it. That's from everyone else's perspective, namely the protagonists. From the antagonistic perspective, the village would've been peaceful for how much longer? If the Fire Nation simply ignores the presence of one lone waterbender, what happens if that waterbender raises another? And another? And please remember that at that point in the war, the Fire Nation was years away from conquering Ba Sing Se, and the Avatar was still a wildcard, a wildcard that could spring up under their noses. Also, gloating over a kill, while perhaps morally reprehensible, is another one of war's cruelties and happens in real life on both sides of a conflict. Granted, most of the time that isn't done to the victim's ''face''.
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*** "Wasn't innocent" and the "cruel nature of war" falls apart when you remember that the Fire Nation ''was the sole instigator and perpetuator of the war'', and the Southern Water Tribe ''was not participating at all in the war''. This wasn't a Fire Nation commander doing the unpleasant but necessary duty he had to do. This was a Fire Nation commander attacking a peaceful, isolated village that had done his nation no wrong, and had no intentions of doing the Fire Nation any wrong, and taking ''pleasure'' in killing a woman who had no intention at all of fighting back and had just told him he surrendered. He was ''gloating'' when he said he wasn't taking prisoners.\\\
Kya wasn't a combatant. She was someone who was sitting in her home when it was invaded and she was murdered despite explicitly surrendering and having no way of resisting. That's a bloody ''war crime''.
Kya wasn't a combatant. She was someone who was sitting in her home when it was invaded and she was murdered despite explicitly surrendering and having no way of resisting. That's a bloody ''war crime''.
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Feed Me is now Chewing The Scenery.
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*** That only works if her arrogance is either undeserved or gets her into trouble. Neither of these is true. She proclaims herself [[FeedMe THE GREATEST EARTHBENDER IN THE WORLD]], and she's ''right''. That's not a character flaw; that's the reality that the writers wrote into the show. Furthermore, even if this was a flaw, it wouldn't make her three-dimensional, because her character never ''changes''. She never grows or learns or anything. There are plenty of MarySue characters that are arrogant; they tend to be called JerkassSue.
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*** That only works if her arrogance is either undeserved or gets her into trouble. Neither of these is true. She proclaims herself [[FeedMe [[ChewingTheScenery THE GREATEST EARTHBENDER IN THE WORLD]], and she's ''right''. That's not a character flaw; that's the reality that the writers wrote into the show. Furthermore, even if this was a flaw, it wouldn't make her three-dimensional, because her character never ''changes''. She never grows or learns or anything. There are plenty of MarySue characters that are arrogant; they tend to be called JerkassSue.
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**** Another issue only touched on is that Katara's mother wasn't innocent, not from the Fire Nation's perspective. She was a combatant. And a potential threat. It was why the Fire Nation locked up all the waterbenders, also probably because the Fire Nation new that the next Avatar after the Air Nomad would be from the Water Tribe. And while the Northern Water Tribe was inaccessible without a massive reallocation of manpower, the Southern Tribe was easily reached with a single ship. It makes sense for them to hedge their bets and at least make sure the Avatar doesn't rise up under their nose. Remember, no one at the time knew Aang was still alive. As for killing Kya straight out, it could've been just a matter of practicality. It's highly likely that the Fire Nation hadn't captured any more waterbenders since the raid the last raid, which could've been 50 years or more ago. Where else would they get them from? NWT? No. Foggy Swamp? Doubtful as they had plenty and didn't seem like world travelers. Where would they bring one lone waterbender to if the suspended cage system was old and defunct from disuse? Killing Kya probably was more cost effective than crafting a holding cell and spending man hours to keep her restrained and carefully fed in an artificially arid cell. That's the cruel nature of war for you.
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**** Another issue only touched on is that Katara's mother wasn't innocent, not from the Fire Nation's perspective. She was a combatant. And a potential threat. It was why the Fire Nation locked up all the waterbenders, also probably because the Fire Nation new knew that the next Avatar after the Air Nomad would be from born in the Water Tribe. And while the Northern Water Tribe was inaccessible without a massive reallocation of manpower, the Southern Tribe was easily reached with a single ship. It makes sense for them to hedge their bets and at least make sure the Avatar doesn't rise up under their nose. Remember, no one at the time knew Aang was still alive. As for killing Kya straight out, it could've been just a matter of practicality. It's highly likely that the Fire Nation hadn't captured any more waterbenders since the raid the last raid, which could've been 50 years or more ago. Where else would they get them from? NWT? No. Foggy Swamp? Doubtful as they had plenty and didn't seem like world travelers. Where would they bring one lone waterbender to if the suspended cage system was old and defunct from disuse? Killing Kya probably was more cost effective than crafting a holding cell and spending man hours to keep her restrained and carefully fed in an artificially arid cell. That's the cruel nature of war for you.
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**** Another issue only touched on is that Katara's mother wasn't innocent, not from the Fire Nation's perspective. She was a combatant. And a potential threat. It was why the Fire Nation locked up all the waterbenders, also probably because the Fire Nation new that the next Avatar after the Air Nomad would be from the Water Tribe. And while the Northern Water Tribe was inaccessible without a massive reallocation of manpower, the Southern Tribe was easily reached with a single ship. It makes sense for them to hedge their bets and at least make sure the Avatar doesn't rise up under their nose. Remember, no one at the time knew Aang was still alive. As for killing Kya straight out, it could've been just a matter of practicality. It's highly likely that the Fire Nation hadn't captured any more waterbenders since the raid the last raid, which could've been 50 years or more ago. Where else would they get them from? NWT? No. Foggy Swamp? Doubtful as they had plenty and didn't seem like world travelers. Where would they bring one lone waterbender to if the suspended cage system was old and defunct from disuse? Killing Kya probably was more cost effective than crafting a holding cell and spending man hours to keep her restrained and carefully fed in an artificially arid cell. That's the cruel nature of war for you.
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**** In my opinion, Bloodbending was used to show Katara's MoralEventHorizon. Think about it. The Blood-bending episode basically showed the darker aspect of Waterbending. Anytime Katara bloodbends, it's like a WhatYouAreInTheDark moment. Sorry, I can't explain it very well. It made better sense in my mind.
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********** Umm, we never do see just what happens right after the dual- although I doubt Zuko was able to move at all. The face is one of the most sensative parts of our bodies...As for Jet- the guy is a Freedom Fighter-we know his parents are already gone and he's probably faced death a lot.... Both of them have had Much harder lives then Katara has had. Yes, Katara lost her mother, but she didn't have the war constantly shoved in her face while she was growing up- not like Zuko and Jet anyway.
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** Because they don't want her to.
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** Because they don't want her to.
** More likely it's that ''she'' doesn't want to.
** More likely it's that ''she'' doesn't want to.
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typo
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***** I know a fair number of Martial arts movies/anime/shows make a big deal of there being some "secret technique" or "ancient style" that is just better than anything else (although its never explained exactly why). Maybe thats thats the kind of thing the writers where going for here, which could also explain why Zuko can suudenly hold his own against Azula, when she pretty much made a fool of him in their previous encounters. Its not that he's gotten more powerful, its just that his fighting style is both different (unusual) and superior. If theres a trope for this, please let me know; I only found this site recently, and my Trope-fu is still weak :P
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***** I know a fair number of Martial arts movies/anime/shows make a big deal of there being some "secret technique" or "ancient style" that is just better than anything else (although its never explained exactly why). Maybe thats thats the kind of thing the writers where going for here, which could also explain why Zuko can suudenly sudenly hold his own against Azula, when she pretty much made a fool of him in their previous encounters. Its not that he's gotten more powerful, its just that his fighting style is both different (unusual) and superior. If theres a trope for this, please let me know; I only found this site recently, and my Trope-fu is still weak :P
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** What bugs me even more is how frightfully THICK her hair is. In her Fire Nation getup, she has two gigantic hanks of hair hanging in front of her shoulders, another humongous bush falling down her back, and a sizable top knot to boot. Just one of those front-lying hanks of hair is more than all the hair on my head and yet that's only ONE of her many...clumps.
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* Why doesn't Toph just make earth tents for the whole group when they camp?
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** Because they don't want her to.
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** TheyJustDidntCare? MST3KMantra? I know I didn't even notice that little detail.
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** TheyJustDidntCare? MST3KMantra? I know I didn't even notice that little detail.detail.
* Why doesn't Toph just make earth tents for the whole group when they camp?
* Why doesn't Toph just make earth tents for the whole group when they camp?
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** That may depend on whether Toph actually recognised Iroh. We know he saw her, because it's that distraction that gives Azula her opening to strike her uncle. But IIRC Iroh doesn't speak during that scene where they're ganging up on Azula, and with no voice to go by, and so many people around it's not guaranteed that Toph could have identified him as anyone other than a firebender also fighting Azula. Although she has been able to tell people by how they move, like with 'twinkletoes', she wasn't with Iroh for long.
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** TheyJustDidntCare? MST3KMantra? I know I didn't even notice that little detail.
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*** Except that would run counter to how ''all'' of the other Bending disciplines worked. She metalbends not because she can "understand" the Earth it's made out of, but because she can feel the earth in it, just as she can feel the earth in the ground. Metalbending ''is'' Earthbending, so it's going to work under the same rules as Earthbending does. It doesn't need a set of arbitrary restrictions and drawbacks because it's simply an extension of what's already been established.
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*****I know a fair number of Martial arts movies/anime/shows make a big deal of there being some "secret technique" or "ancient style" that is just better than anything else (although its never explained exactly why). Maybe thats thats the kind of thing the writers where going for here, which could also explain why Zuko can suudenly hold his own against Azula, when she pretty much made a fool of him in their previous encounters. Its not that he's gotten more powerful, its just that his fighting style is both different (unusual) and superior. If theres a trope for this, please let me know; I only found this site recently, and my Trope-fu is still weak :P
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** I agree that Metalbending basically came out of nowhere, served as a DeusExMachina, and doesn't have sufficient drawbacks. Here's how it ''ought'' to [[WhatCouldHaveBeen have worked]]: Metal is Earth combined with manmade processes, right? Therefore, to Metalbend, one needs to truly understand not only the Earth it's made out of, but also [[TheEmpath the people who made it]] (their motivations, etc). This leaves Toph the advantage (because of how she senses people's emotions), but makes it more feasible for other benders to learn it. And since Toph's biggest flaw is her arrogance, this would allow for real character growth. Furthermore, if it's a mental exertion as well as a physical one, it needs to be more draining; being unable to bend at all for a while afterward would make perfect sense.
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**** There is one crucial problem with that argument. The foundation of it is that, as you say, he betrayed her, personally. ''But there is no betrayal.'' Betrayal means an abuse of trust. There was never any understanding of trust, at least from his end. Zuko had never been on their side, never made any claims of allegiance to them. All Zuko did was spill a bit of backstory and show a bit of humanity, which ''she'' took to mean that, because he's not a monster, it MUST mean that he wants to change sides. If ''Katara'' thinks that ''him'' showing a human side means that there is now trust between them, well, that's hardly his fault. And yes, he does pursue Aang, ''just as he did before'', because the Avatar is an enemy and a threat to his nation (among other reasons, which don't matter because Katara doesn't know them). Any other Fire Nation soldier would've done the same. Hating him because he's been the source of all their troubles comes down to the same thing - she hates him because he's working against them. And sure, hatred is reasonable in that situation, but the amount of ItsPersonal Katara shows ''isn't''. Katara acts as if he's been her friend for life and suddenly unexpectedly betrayed her. Which, again, comes down to the same thing. She runs into someone who has consistently been an enemy, and when he shows a human side, thinks it means that he is no longer the enemy. Thus, anyone working against them = monster.
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**** There is one crucial problem with that argument. The foundation of it is that, as you say, he betrayed her, personally. ''But there is no betrayal.'' Betrayal means an abuse of trust. There was never any understanding of trust, at least from his end. Zuko had never been on their side, never made any claims of allegiance to them. All Zuko did was spill a bit of backstory and show a bit of humanity, which ''she'' took to mean that, because he's not a monster, it MUST mean that he wants to change sides. If ''Katara'' thinks that ''him'' showing a human side means that there is now trust between them, well, that's hardly his fault. And yes, he does pursue Aang, ''just as he did before'', because the Avatar is an enemy and a threat to his nation (among other reasons, which don't matter because Katara doesn't know them). Any other Fire Nation soldier would've done the same. Hating him because he's been the source of all their troubles comes down to the same thing - she hates him because he's working against them. And sure, hatred is reasonable in that situation, but the amount of ItsPersonal Katara shows ''isn't''. Katara acts as if he's been her friend for life and suddenly unexpectedly betrayed her. Which, again, comes down Remember her dialogue with Sokka in ''Western Air Temple''? "He gets you to trust him, and then he strikes!" Both Sokka and Katara there are clearly convinced that Zuko's words in the same thing. crystal cave were a manipulative, ''deliberate'' attempt to catch her off her guard. How else would you interpret that? She runs into someone who has consistently been an enemy, and when he shows a human side, thinks it means that he is no longer the enemy.enemy. When he shows that he's still an enemy, she concludes the "human side" must have been a lie. Thus, it's impossible for someone to be an enemey without being a monster. Thus, anyone working against them = monster.
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** Her comment to Sokka is not referred to again, which bugs this troper a lot. The rest of her behaviour in the episode, born of anger, confusion, perhaps guilt (proving she's "not the scared little girl" any more seems to be be part of it) can be explained to some extent if not necessarily justified. But Sokka has a different and less overtly emotional reaction to his mother's death and somehow it isn't good enough for Katara. It could have been in the heat of the moment and she somehow apologised afterwards, or worse it's what she ''really'' thought of her brother and hadn't said so before. And from a writing perspective, it seems ''far'' too large an issue for there to be no reference to Hakoda, if not in that episode but later on. The whole episode was just a very uncomfortable one.
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*** Also from what I understood it was a mainland fire nation village. Neither earth saboteurs nor villagers supporting them is likely. The villagers might do it on their own as factory ruins their economy (but once the solders are defeated by multiple bending arts in mist out of nowhere with sound effects in a world where existence of spirits is fact...)
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*** Also if anyone was running/jogging (s)he may remember that by controlling breath he can controll heartbeat (the faster you breath the faster the heartbeat). The heartbeat is directly connected with blood pressure so by controlling breath you controll indirectly a blood pressure. It's logical as those systems determines how much oxygen goes into cells.
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** Also Sokka was just looking at the blueprints and he's not a mechanical genius when it comes to things as advanced as the fire nation.
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*** However, if the soldiers say it is an angry spirit they are (unlike in our world) ''not'' going to be dismissed out of hand. Stay clear of the place until an exorcist or ten can be summoned.
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** "What, you call that airbending? [[YourCostumeNeedsWork The fat guy over there did a much better job of it. I mean, you honestly think I haven't seen anyone here try that globe of air trick?]] Not to mention, yours looks pretty lame. NEXT!"
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** Realistically? Less time than a month. The Fire Nation is an industrial-age army that uses mechanized warfare. They've got to understand logistics and how important it is. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a supply depot within an hour or day's time away with enough parts to replace anything that goes haywire on the Drill as quickly as possible - and that's discounting the notion that they'd carry spare parts inside the Drill itself for quick maintenance. That thing's also got to have some redundant systems that they can switch over to if one breaks down; a device that big will practically ''require'' them if they want to get any maintenance done.
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*** What's up with those tattoos anyway? Is there a reason tattoos should glow with power when avatar-state or spirit-world stuff is happening? Would an avatar from one of the other three nations have some equivalently glowing item?
