History Headscratchers / AngelsAndDemons

*** The Little Boy bomb had a blast yield of between 15-18 kilotons. at a distance of 1 mile / 1.6 km it had a blast pressure of 5 psi. the firestorm was a mere twice that. At 5 miles, a 4 kiloton blast would barely rattle the windows and the gamma pulse would likely do very little to people at ground zero. If anything, the level of destruction we see in the movie is far overboard of reality. Nukes are powerful, they aren't that powerful.

** Catholicism also does not allow you to hire an assassin to ritually murder people, the Camerlengo is not exactly working under conventially Catholic morality from the start. Then again, maybe Dan Brown simply did not [[DanBrowned research Catholicism hard enough]] to realize that suicide is a mortal sin.

* The idea of eucharist being taken from the Aztecs. Seriously, [[CriticalResearchFailure a grade school kid]] can figure out [[ArtisticLicenseHistory one]] [[ArtisticLicenseGeography major]] reason that is wrong.

** I kind of figured that (along with the keys attached in the wheel well of the car) the car was planted there as a getaway vehicle beforehand. Possibly by a minion. (And as for why a professional assassin wouldn't check for a car bomb-- either he really does trust the cause that hired him, which doesn't seem likely, or he wanted to get as far out of town as possible before the bomb went off, and made a stupid mistake.)
*** The assassin had to get a move on, both Langdon and Vittoria had seen his face and the police were combing the city for him.
** The assassin implied this wasn't the first time he was hired by ''men of God.'' The Vatican, (even [[spoiler: the Camerlengo]]) was probably a repeat client, so he had no reason to suspect treachery when a getaway vehicle was provided. As for how the bomb got planted, as with many things, this task was delegated to a third (fourth... fifth...) party
*** What irks me is that the engine-activated bomb is just so cliche and expected that any human being with more than two brain cells would know to look out for it. Why not have the Assassin turn the engine on, sigh in relief, then turn the headlights on, and ''then'' [[DoubleSubversion have the car explode]]?
** He crosses directly into TooDumbToLive when the car isn't even his own -- [[spoiler: The Camerlengo]] ''gave him the keys'' and told him specifically what car to use.

*** But to be fair, killing other people can be a lot more ambiguous. It's incredibly easy to find examples of very devout Catholics who thought killing people was okay in at least some circumstances (the Crusades were pretty popular, after all). And in addition, suicide is unique because it's the only mortal sin of which it's generally impossible to be absolved, for obvious reasons. So I'll agree with the more obvious explanation of research failure.
** Or maybe the guy honestly believed he deserved to go to Hell, once he realized how pointless his crimes had been.
*** That, or he believed that dying that way (even if it meant going to Hell afterwards) was the only way he could spare the Church's reputation from being sullied by his own crimes. This way, nobody's going to be able to claim that he was a ''Catholic'' fanatic, because a true Catholic wouldn't commit suicide: he'll just be remembered as a nutjob, so out of touch with the legitimate faith that he'd willfully damn himself.
** I remember the Camerlengo in the movie appearing to pray as he was burning. Can a person be absolved of the sin of suicide if he prays for forgiveness after committing the act but before he actually dies? I doubt the person would be sincerely repentant of the act at that point, but I'm no theologian.
*** He prayed before killing himself in the book as well. In front of everybody gathered in the Piazza.
*** This question is discussed in a piece of theatre by german poet Friedrich Schiller. According to the character discussing, you wouldn't be forgiven because it's a way of having your cake and eating it, too, thereby discouraging the protagonist of suicide.
*** This troper also recalls the Camerlengo saying something along the lines of "I leave my life in your hands now" when praying and interpreted this like theorized above that he was simply willing to take whatever the Hell was waiting for him on the other side.

*** The present troper just wants to remind people that the Camerlengo believed that everything he was doing ''(including his suicide)'' was ordered by God himself. (Although he was self-hypocritical, because in the last chapters, the readers can understand perfectly that he's also shrouded in a kind of vendetta onto science, the same science that killed his mother, giving him kind of a {{Freudian Excuse}} - he knew that there was a part of him that wanted to do it from the start, it wasn't God who ordered to commit all these crimes). Therefore, his suicide could be both a way to seek forgiveness for his sins, and also finishing the work he's done by fulfilling "God's last request" ? Not to mention the Biblical reference when the book says he disappeared in fire, like a spirit, or an angel (the troper doesn't remember quite well) - but that could refer to Jesus' Ascension to '''Heaven'''. I guess he doesn't expect to go to Hell, but since a part of him acknowledges the crimes he has commited, he can't expect to go to Heaven. ''Have a good (and long) time in Purgatory!''

* On a related note, why would anyone believe that an organization that advocates science would pander to antiquated alchemical ''pseudo''-science by referencing the classical four elements? That's about as logical as the Discovery Channel adopting an animated iguanadon as its network mascot, and depicting it as a crocodile with a thumb-claw on its nose.

*** At about a billion dollars a gram, it's the most precious substance on Earth.

*** They use a really big needle?

*** I think that's enough of a grey area that it could be defended in-universe by the Pope and have some supporters of the notion. Theological issues when there's some text supporting both sides are generally not black and white.

** That's exactly why the revelation was shocking to the cardinals and [[spoiler: the Camerlengo, that his own father fathered him with the assistance of his worst enemy: '''Science'''.]]

* Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't cold temperatures help preserve battery power? Not drain it?

* Speaking of which, why exactly was Richter so secretive about his hunch about the Carmalengo? Why did he only tell a single person (or two if you count the one Swiss Guard)?

** Well, first off, {{Literature/TheDaVinciCode}} is a ''sequel'' to this one, although the movies have switched the order. Secondly, I believe the implication was that Langdon was satisfied simply in knowing the secret of the Holy Grail, and, like the Priory of Sion, had no intent in spreading the word.

* Minor movie headscratcher, why is there never any sign of the ''actual'' flag of the Vatican?

** The YouKilledMyFather / LoveInterest-family-drama vein had already been played out pretty thoroughly in the previous movie, no need to go over similar ground here.

* The idea of eucharist being taken from the Aztecs. Seriously, [[CriticalResearchFailure a grade school kid]] can figure out [[YouFailHistoryForever one]] [[YouFailGeographyForever major]] reason that is wrong.

** PragmaticAdaptation? TheyJustDidntCare? Maybe too much Angst for the screen? Plus, she already had all motivation she needed. Someone killed her boss and stole the equivalent of a nuke to blow up the Vatican. I'd say that's pretty dire already, so no need to get personal.

* When the big controversy [[note]]before we find out the full conspiracy[[/note]] is over whether or not the Carmelango should be allowed to succeed as pope (because of his age), why don't they elect someone else and wait for him to get older?

* In the film, the camerlengo's plan makes no sense. For starters, he would have had to plan Langdon's arrival to pretty much the exact minute, since if he had been a minute or two earlier Vittoria would have just diffused the bomb, and a minute later the bomb would have gone off and killed everyone before he could get high enough to save the city. What's more, even if people had known that the bomb was set by the Illuminati (which they wouldn't have judging from the reporters at the end) that still would not have gotten the church to rally against science, it would have got them to rally against a very specific and apparently small terrorist group. Los Illuminati might have represented science and reason 500 years ago, but right now very few people know about them and even less associate them with science as a whole (less; as in no one). Of course, none of that matters because if the bomb went off the ENTIRE catholic leadership would have been killed, so it's unlikely there'd be any rallying of any kind, since anyone who could have been rallied around would have been in the explosion. Basically, the plan ONLY works if he stops the bomb, which required perfect timing on Langdon's part. (Also probably worth mentioning that Langdon was almost killed twice, which would have made it much harder for him to actually find the bomb).
** The camerlengo had ordered that all the cardinals be evacuated beforehand (an order that was cancelled by the Swiss Guard). The destruction of Vatican City by a new and even more powerful WeaponOfMassDestruction would have turned people against further research into this dangerous energy source -- and therefore stopped research into the God Particle, whereas a religious version of 9/11 would have rallied people behind the Catholic church. The camerlengo was pretty much playing it by ear in the end; when the cardinals refused to leave he had to get the bomb out of there fast rather than let Vittoria defuse it (which also wouldn't have the same impact as a mid-air explosion which couldn't be covered up).

** For that matter HOW did the Carmalengo plant the bomb? He can't exactly say "Guys, I'm gonna make a speech to the college of cardinals (hereby breaking one of the Church most sacred rule) and then I'm gonna plant a bomb in the car of a professional assassin that ''I'''m paying. See you in an hour."

* Someone on my flist pointed out a plan that would've worked better in the film; instead of fiddling with the lights in each individual section, simply turn off the lights in each half of the city in sequence, and then turn off the lights in half of the section where the lights went out, then turn off half of the lights in that section, etc. Why would they brute-force it?

** They were trying the lights to see if the Illuminati terrorists were that dense (they weren't). But it was made clear, given the Swiss Guard's regard for having ''a symbologist'' on hand that they weren't an academic lot, (or a necessarily bright lot) at that.

*** The present troper just wants to remind people that the Camerlengo believed that everything he was doing ''(including his suicide)'' was ordered by God himself. (Although he was self-hypocritical, because in the last chapters, the readers can understand perfectly that he's also obnubilated by a kind of vendetta onto science, the same science that killed his mother, giving him kind of a {{Freudian Excuse}} - he knew that there was a part of him that wanted to do it from the start, it wasn't God who ordered to commit all these crimes). Therefore, his suicide could be both a way to seek forgiveness for his sins, and also finishing the work he's done by fulfilling "God's last request" ? Not to mention the Biblical reference when the book says he disappeared in fire, like a spirit, or an angel (the troper doesn't remember quite well) - but that could refer to Jesus' Ascension to '''Heaven'''. I guess he doesn't expect to go to Hell, but since a part of him acknowledges the crimes he has commited, he can't expect to go to Heaven. ''Have a good (and long) time in Purgatory!''

* Why does the book present making an ambigram as extremely difficult? It even says that the best symbologists and artists haven't figured out a way to make "Illuminati" into an ambigram... But Dan Brown does it in the first few pages of the book! What?and he does it later on in the book, too, with Earth, Air, Water, and Fire! I repeat, WHAT??
** This troper thought that the Illuminati ambigram was imperfect (it read to him as [[http://angelsdemonsrome.com/images/illuminati.png "Illiuminati"]]), and thus the assertion is upheld. Ambigrams are kinda easy to do (if you know the secret), so the other ambigrams made not his wall approach his head.

*** At the moment, they was thinking about the future. Like a far off Franchise/StarTrek future.

** Not at all. Masturbation is a sin specifically because it does not engender life. Sperm donation for medical reasons or for artificial insemination would be perfectly in keeping with the morals of the church.

** I think that´s precisely why he didn´t tell anybody. I´m no scholar, but I presume breaking the vow of chastity is a much bigger sin than fathering a child, no matter the means.

** PragmaticAdaptation? TheyJustDidntCare? Maybe too much Angst for the screen? Plus, she already had all motivation she needed. Someone killed her boss and stole the equivalent of a nuke to blow up the Vatican. I'd say that's pretty dire already, so no need to get personal.

*** [[BeliefMakesYouStupid You're talking about religious people. Those aren't very well known for being rational and logic, and TheLawOfCautiousEditing itself exists because you can't tell anything that goes against it because they go full rant mode. As quoted by Cardinal Strauss, the sheep-like devouts think whatever the Church tells them to.]] It would be easy for the Camerlengo, or any remnant of the Vatican to put the blame on CERN and science in general, and very few people would even question it. The whole point of Dan Brown's books, despited the DanBrowned aspects of them, is to show how people are easily swayed by religion, and how the religious organizations, especially the Vatican, will go insane lengths to ensure they aren't questioned or defied. [[TruthInTelevision For example]], [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_Code_(film)#Catholic_and_other_reactions the flak that the movies alone]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_%26_Demons_(film)#Catholic_controversy got from every church and their mother]].