History Headscratchers / AceAttorney

26th Apr '16 7:40:23 AM Cyberlink420
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** A fight that Phoenix can't win because science and religion won't be friends unless they respect each other.

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** *** A fight that Phoenix can't win because science and religion won't be friends unless they respect each other.other.
**Maya and Ema will both be in ''Ace Attorney 6'', but Maya and Nick will be investigating cases in Kurain while Ema is still in LA, so it's unclear how often the two will ultimately end up interacting.
24th Dec '15 7:55:24 AM herpderp72
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7th Dec '15 4:41:32 PM Hossmeister
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*** Every defense attorney and every prosecutor has got one (the only exception being Lang and [[spoiler:Alba]] but they're a detective and a big bad who get to yell it a lot so they get a pass), so it's not like it doesn't follow rules. Plus, the original trilogy was already pushing the limits of their original GBA carts and not being too much kinder to their DS cards. Voices for everyone, most of which you'd only hear once or twice, it wouldn't be worth the space.

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*** Every defense attorney and every prosecutor has got one (the only exception being Lang and [[spoiler:Alba]] but they're a detective and a big bad who get to yell it a lot so they get a pass), so it's not like it doesn't follow rules. Plus, the original trilogy VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightTrilogy was already pushing the limits of their original GBA carts and not being too much kinder to their DS cards. Voices for everyone, most of which you'd only hear once or twice, it wouldn't be worth the space.
17th Nov '15 7:48:45 AM crazysamaritan
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* This series's fixation with MenAreTheExpendableGender. There are only two cases in this entire series where the victim is female, both [[spoiler:Feys]]. There's a difference between WomenInRefrigerators and avoiding killing women at all.us For that matter the lack of female murderers, it totals as three (six if you count [[spoiler:Dahlia Hawthorne's]] murders separately) Considering this series otherwise does very well on TheBechdelTest.

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* This series's fixation with MenAreTheExpendableGender. There are only two cases in this entire series where the victim is female, both [[spoiler:Feys]]. There's a difference between WomenInRefrigerators and avoiding killing women at all.us For that matter the lack of female murderers, it totals as three (six if you count [[spoiler:Dahlia Hawthorne's]] murders separately) Considering this series otherwise does very well on TheBechdelTest.separately).
14th Sep '15 1:48:57 PM SolidSonicTH
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** If ''Gyakuten Kenji 2'' is any indication, absolutely not. Apparently judges assigned to cases the prosecution is investigating can also serve in the trial for that case without squalor.

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** If ''Gyakuten Kenji 2'' is any indication, absolutely not. Apparently judges assigned to cases the prosecution is investigating can accompany them to the scene during their investigations and also serve in the trial for that case without squalor.
14th Sep '15 1:46:12 PM SolidSonicTH
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** If ''Gyakuten Kenji 2'' is any indication, absolutely not. Apparently judges assigned to cases the prosecution is investigating can also serve in the trial for that case without squalor.
11th Sep '15 12:54:13 AM ACW
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*** This explanation rubs me the wrong way. Try to imagine if the series had gone differently- specifically, if the entire cast was gender-swapped. From Justice for All onwards, Franziska was a male character who had a tendency to beat the everloving crap out of anyone who even annoyed him, sometimes ''to the point of unconsciousness''. Later on, he changes slightly- instead of whipping everyone who annoys him, he only whips women- even if it was a man who annoyed him, he'll still choose to whip the nearest woman instead, and then ''laugh with the man who annoyed him about it.'' I can't speak for you, not knowing you well enough, but for most people, he'd be a complete monster, no matter how tragic a backstory he possessed. Really, this seems to be a problem throughout the series itself- barring Dahlia and Morgan, (who just about everyone in-and-out-of-universe seems to agree are [[CompleteMonster complete monsters,]]) female characters are almost always portrayed more sympathetically than male ones, even when they've committed similar crimes. Heck, there seems to be a (minor, granted) section of the fanbase that even tries to justify Morgan's actions, attributing them more to her husband than to the one who actually performed them. It's like they can't believe a female character would ever do anything wrong unless a male character did something to incite it first. Now, that said, what I think might have made Franziska a much better (or at least, more likeable) character would be if, instead of shifting from whipping everybody to whipping just men, if she shifted from whipping everybody to whipping mainly criminals- i.e., people who've actually done something to deserve it. I don't know how well this would work from a story perspective, but in terms of her actual character, it sounds much better than turning her into some sort of misandrist. At the very least, it would be a decent 'what-if' scenario.

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*** This explanation rubs me the wrong way. Try to imagine if the series had gone differently- specifically, if the entire cast was gender-swapped. From Justice for All onwards, Franziska was a male character who had a tendency to beat the everloving crap out of anyone who even annoyed him, sometimes ''to the point of unconsciousness''. Later on, he changes slightly- instead of whipping everyone who annoys him, he only whips women- even if it was a man who annoyed him, he'll still choose to whip the nearest woman instead, and then ''laugh with the man who annoyed him about it.'' I can't speak for you, not knowing you well enough, but for most people, he'd be a complete monster, no matter how tragic a backstory he possessed. Really, this seems to be a problem throughout the series itself- barring Dahlia and Morgan, (who just about everyone in-and-out-of-universe seems to agree are [[CompleteMonster complete monsters,]]) monsters,) female characters are almost always portrayed more sympathetically than male ones, even when they've committed similar crimes. Heck, there seems to be a (minor, granted) section of the fanbase that even tries to justify Morgan's actions, attributing them more to her husband than to the one who actually performed them. It's like they can't believe a female character would ever do anything wrong unless a male character did something to incite it first. Now, that said, what I think might have made Franziska a much better (or at least, more likeable) character would be if, instead of shifting from whipping everybody to whipping just men, if she shifted from whipping everybody to whipping mainly criminals- i.e., people who've actually done something to deserve it. I don't know how well this would work from a story perspective, but in terms of her actual character, it sounds much better than turning her into some sort of misandrist. At the very least, it would be a decent 'what-if' scenario.
8th Sep '15 3:18:37 AM Gamer4
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Added DiffLines:

*** This explanation rubs me the wrong way. Try to imagine if the series had gone differently- specifically, if the entire cast was gender-swapped. From Justice for All onwards, Franziska was a male character who had a tendency to beat the everloving crap out of anyone who even annoyed him, sometimes ''to the point of unconsciousness''. Later on, he changes slightly- instead of whipping everyone who annoys him, he only whips women- even if it was a man who annoyed him, he'll still choose to whip the nearest woman instead, and then ''laugh with the man who annoyed him about it.'' I can't speak for you, not knowing you well enough, but for most people, he'd be a complete monster, no matter how tragic a backstory he possessed. Really, this seems to be a problem throughout the series itself- barring Dahlia and Morgan, (who just about everyone in-and-out-of-universe seems to agree are [[CompleteMonster complete monsters,]]) female characters are almost always portrayed more sympathetically than male ones, even when they've committed similar crimes. Heck, there seems to be a (minor, granted) section of the fanbase that even tries to justify Morgan's actions, attributing them more to her husband than to the one who actually performed them. It's like they can't believe a female character would ever do anything wrong unless a male character did something to incite it first. Now, that said, what I think might have made Franziska a much better (or at least, more likeable) character would be if, instead of shifting from whipping everybody to whipping just men, if she shifted from whipping everybody to whipping mainly criminals- i.e., people who've actually done something to deserve it. I don't know how well this would work from a story perspective, but in terms of her actual character, it sounds much better than turning her into some sort of misandrist. At the very least, it would be a decent 'what-if' scenario.
23rd Jun '15 5:40:30 PM WitchHatsFTW
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**That's literally the whole point of the streamlined system. The court system in Ace Attorney isn't designed to be fair or thorough, it's set up to get someone convicted for a crime as soon as possible no matter what so the police can move on. It wouldn't make sense for them to only streamline the court system without shortening the time allowed for investigations because the idea is that they have limited resources and they don't want to spend excessive time on cases. Having such a flawed and skewed system no only speeds up gameplay, but it also gives more urgency to Phoenix's trials. You're fighting against a system that IS designed to find a suspect and get them convicted as quickly as possible even if some of the facts don't tie in well. That's why Prosecutors like Edgeworth, who are trying to find the truth rather than win a case, are rare and often have to fight against their own system (like Edgeworth does in Investigations) just to get to the true bottom of the crimes they investigate.
20th Jun '15 11:20:31 AM Morgenthaler
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** That's kind of the thing. I know that she ''does'' get character development of a certain kind, and she does indeed get more caring over the games. She goes from only caring about winning to actually doing things like the above like you said, and that's what really gets to me- I ''want'' to like her, and be impressed with her character development along with everyone else, but that ''[[RedDwarf smegging]]'' whip of hers always kind of gets in the way of that- that, to me, was her biggest character flaw- not that she was obsessed with winning, or even that she had trouble empathizing with others- it was that that lack of empathy caused her to whip anyone who happens to be within radius. Which leads to even more confusion on my part when she apparently develops some sense of empathy, but still seems incapable of communicating with others without whipping them at first. I mean, even Godot stopped throwing coffee around once he grew to genuinely respect Phoenix, but even after all her character development, Frannie ''still'' thinks it's a-ok to whip the living crud out of anyone ''just because.'' Yeah, YMMV on whether it's funny or not (as you can probably tell, I stand pretty heavily on the "not" side,) but ''still''....

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** That's kind of the thing. I know that she ''does'' get character development of a certain kind, and she does indeed get more caring over the games. She goes from only caring about winning to actually doing things like the above like you said, and that's what really gets to me- I ''want'' to like her, and be impressed with her character development along with everyone else, but that ''[[RedDwarf ''[[Series/RedDwarf smegging]]'' whip of hers always kind of gets in the way of that- that, to me, was her biggest character flaw- not that she was obsessed with winning, or even that she had trouble empathizing with others- it was that that lack of empathy caused her to whip anyone who happens to be within radius. Which leads to even more confusion on my part when she apparently develops some sense of empathy, but still seems incapable of communicating with others without whipping them at first. I mean, even Godot stopped throwing coffee around once he grew to genuinely respect Phoenix, but even after all her character development, Frannie ''still'' thinks it's a-ok to whip the living crud out of anyone ''just because.'' Yeah, YMMV on whether it's funny or not (as you can probably tell, I stand pretty heavily on the "not" side,) but ''still''....
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