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** Not to mention the ecological catastrophe(s) of the coming decades in the Trek 'verse; the Eugenics Wars-WWIII.
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** Would two whales + one baby + one human expert make that much difference though, compared to the dozens/hundreds of whales being slaughtered every year despite efforts to the contrary?
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** The 23rd century has tricorders that scan many signals/frequencies/what-have-you from large distances, and the Probe is definitely many centuries ahead of them in power + sophistication... no doubt it just picks up their songs as signals, which can easily be picked up across space (no need for 'hearing' as we understand it). Apparently they weren't in any hurry though, with that same Probe merely traveling at impulse speeds.
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** Presumably the same way any space ship in St does. They scan the ocean for high-pitched tones (whale song).
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** Presumably the same way any space ship in St ST does. They scan the ocean for high-pitched tones (whale song).
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** Presumably the same way any space ship in St does. They scan the ocean for high-pitched tones (whale song).
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Corrected \"effect them\" to \"affect them\".
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*** The thing to consider is not just that the person in question is dead/missing but how the people who knew them react and how that will effect them and the people who know them. Sometimes it makes no relevant difference, other times the changes are more obvious. If Gillain wasn't particularly social then her disappearance will cause minimal change.
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*** The thing to consider is not just that the person in question is dead/missing but how the people who knew them react and how that will effect affect them and the people who know them. Sometimes it makes no relevant difference, other times the changes are more obvious. If Gillain wasn't particularly social then her disappearance will cause minimal change.
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Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
** Leaving aside that technology was [[{{Understatement}} slightly]] more advanced than "lightbulbs" in the 1930s, the Federation has established rules for dealing with time travel and people stranded thereby. One of them is that people from the past who come forward in time need to stay forward in time unless their absence in the past causes catastrophic consequences. Edith Keeler just "disappearing" rather than dying might have had greater consequences than some whale biologist who was already a bit of an overemotional flake (what? she ''is'') disappearing.
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** Leaving aside that technology was [[{{Understatement}} slightly]] more advanced than "lightbulbs" in the 1930s, the The Federation has established rules for dealing with time travel and people stranded thereby. One of them is that people from the past who come forward in time need to stay forward in time unless their absence in the past causes catastrophic consequences. Edith Keeler just "disappearing" rather than dying might have had greater consequences than some whale biologist who was already a bit of an overemotional flake (what? she ''is'') disappearing.
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Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
** Edith Keeler was from the 1930s, where the most advanced technology was nowhere near space travel or,time travel. Her entire life was devoted to caring for the men that came into the shelter. Gillian was from the 1980s, which would be a slightly easier transition culturally. Her entire life was given over to caring for George and Gracie. Besides, who's to say that the Guardian would have ''let'' them bring back Edith Keeler? (And yes, I got the HoYay implications of your post. I'm just not a Kirk/Spock shipper.)
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** Edith Keeler was from the 1930s, where the most advanced technology was nowhere near space travel or,time or time travel. Her entire life was devoted to caring for the men that came into the shelter. Gillian was from the 1980s, which would be a slightly easier transition culturally. Her entire life was given over to caring for George and Gracie. Besides, who's to say that the Guardian would have ''let'' them bring back Edith Keeler? (And yes, I got the HoYay implications of your post. I'm just not a Kirk/Spock shipper.)
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Changed the erroneous suggestion that the most advanced technology in the 1930s was the lightbulb.
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
** Edith Keeler was from the 1930s, where the most advanced technology available was a lightbulb. Her entire life was devoted to caring for the men that came into the shelter. Gillian was from the 1980s, which would be a slightly easier transition culturally. Her entire life was given over to caring for George and Gracie. Besides, who's to say that the Guardian would have ''let'' them bring back Edith Keeler? (And yes, I got the HoYay implications of your post. I'm just not a Kirk/Spock shipper.)
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** Edith Keeler was from the 1930s, where the most advanced technology available was a lightbulb.nowhere near space travel or,time travel. Her entire life was devoted to caring for the men that came into the shelter. Gillian was from the 1980s, which would be a slightly easier transition culturally. Her entire life was given over to caring for George and Gracie. Besides, who's to say that the Guardian would have ''let'' them bring back Edith Keeler? (And yes, I got the HoYay implications of your post. I'm just not a Kirk/Spock shipper.)
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Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
** Time travel in ''Franchise/StarTrek'' IS easy, it's just generally a bad idea.
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** Time travel in ''Franchise/StarTrek'' IS easy, it's easy. It's just generally a bad idea.
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Corrected \"it\'s supplies\" to \"its supplies\".
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Corrected \"it\'s supplies\" to \"its supplies\".
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*** They're actually using Klingon communicators. Slightly redesigned between movies, but if you look they've got the Electric shaver looking mouthpieces Kruge and his crew used instead of the usual Starfleet flip open communicators. Presumably the Bird of Prey had several in it's supplies and they just used those.
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*** They're actually using Klingon communicators. Slightly redesigned between movies, but if you look they've got the Electric shaver looking mouthpieces Kruge and his crew used instead of the usual Starfleet flip open communicators. Presumably the Bird of Prey had several in it's its supplies and they just used those.
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Changed line(s) 56 (click to see context) from:
* How did the probe ever expect to hear the whales ''from space''? (Then, how did it hear them?)
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* How did the probe ever expect to hear the whales ''from space''? (Then, how did it hear them?)them?)
* FridgeBrilliance - When the rest of the crew are splashing around celebrating in San Francisco Bay after the Probe departs, Spock is ''very'' noticeably not enjoying himself. He tries to climb as high up on the Bird of Prey's hull as he can, resists the efforts of the others to drag him into the water with them, and lets out a growl of disgust when they finally succeed and he surfaces. On one hand it's funny because Spock is usually TheStoic, and you'd expect him to be reserved and dignified. But then you remember Spock is from Vulcan. Vulcan is a highly-volcanic SingleBiomePlanet that's almost entirely covered by mountains and deserts, with only a few small scattered seas. He doesn't like the water because he's from a planet where thanks to modern irrigation technology one could go their entire life and ''never see open bodies of water''. Spock diving into George and Gracie's tank earlier was merely done out of necessity.
* FridgeBrilliance - When the rest of the crew are splashing around celebrating in San Francisco Bay after the Probe departs, Spock is ''very'' noticeably not enjoying himself. He tries to climb as high up on the Bird of Prey's hull as he can, resists the efforts of the others to drag him into the water with them, and lets out a growl of disgust when they finally succeed and he surfaces. On one hand it's funny because Spock is usually TheStoic, and you'd expect him to be reserved and dignified. But then you remember Spock is from Vulcan. Vulcan is a highly-volcanic SingleBiomePlanet that's almost entirely covered by mountains and deserts, with only a few small scattered seas. He doesn't like the water because he's from a planet where thanks to modern irrigation technology one could go their entire life and ''never see open bodies of water''. Spock diving into George and Gracie's tank earlier was merely done out of necessity.
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*** They're actually using Klingon communicators. Slightly redesigned between movies, but if you look they've got the Electric shaver looking mouthpieces Kruge and his crew used instead of the usual Starfleet flip open communicators. Presumably the Bird of Prey had several in it's supplies and they just used those.
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Changed line(s) 54 (click to see context) from:
* FridgeHorror - If we accept that hump-backed whales are endangered and every single one of them (especially "very pregnant" ones) matter to the survival of the species, then it's quite possible that by taking two away, as well as an expert / activist (who now, without a job, had plenty of time on her hands to work on behalf of the whales), that it's possible Kirk may have inadvertently caused their extinction! Yes I know they were being hunted at the end, but we don't know whether they would have escaped from the whalers...
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* FridgeHorror - If we accept that hump-backed whales are endangered and every single one of them (especially "very pregnant" ones) matter to the survival of the species, then it's quite possible that by taking two away, as well as an expert / activist (who now, without a job, had plenty of time on her hands to work on behalf of the whales), that it's possible Kirk may have inadvertently caused their extinction! Yes I know they were being hunted at the end, but we don't know whether they would have escaped from the whalers...whalers...
* How did the probe ever expect to hear the whales ''from space''? (Then, how did it hear them?)
* How did the probe ever expect to hear the whales ''from space''? (Then, how did it hear them?)
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Changed line(s) 53 (click to see context) from:
** Not necessarily. An episode from Voyager had the crew time travel to the 1990s U.S. and it seemed to be pretty okay. It's implied, but [[GreatOffscreenWar not shown]] that the Eugenics Wars were largely confined to Asia and Africa.
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** Not necessarily. An episode from Voyager had the crew time travel to the 1990s U.S. and it seemed to be pretty okay. It's implied, but [[GreatOffscreenWar not shown]] that the Eugenics Wars were largely confined to Asia and Africa.Africa.
* FridgeHorror - If we accept that hump-backed whales are endangered and every single one of them (especially "very pregnant" ones) matter to the survival of the species, then it's quite possible that by taking two away, as well as an expert / activist (who now, without a job, had plenty of time on her hands to work on behalf of the whales), that it's possible Kirk may have inadvertently caused their extinction! Yes I know they were being hunted at the end, but we don't know whether they would have escaped from the whalers...
* FridgeHorror - If we accept that hump-backed whales are endangered and every single one of them (especially "very pregnant" ones) matter to the survival of the species, then it's quite possible that by taking two away, as well as an expert / activist (who now, without a job, had plenty of time on her hands to work on behalf of the whales), that it's possible Kirk may have inadvertently caused their extinction! Yes I know they were being hunted at the end, but we don't know whether they would have escaped from the whalers...
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* The movie's premise makes time travel in the ''Star Trek'' universe seem much too easy. We can only assume that that ship was special because it belonged to [[Film/BackToTheFuture Christopher Lloyd]].
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* The movie's premise makes time travel in the ''Star Trek'' universe seem much too easy. We can only assume that that ship was special because it belonged to [[Film/BackToTheFuture [[Franchise/BackToTheFuture Christopher Lloyd]].
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** The ExtendedUniverse novel ''Probe'' actually dealt with this. Short version: the Probe's programming didn't cover what to do in cases where the aliens it was trying to contact weren't there but then all of a sudden two of them were. It decided to leave Earth alone for now but come back in a few years to see how the situation had progressed (in the meanwhile, the Enterprise crew managed to make contact with the Probe and convince it humanity and the Federation were okay).
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Changed line(s) 51 (click to see context) from:
* A case of almost FridgeHorror: Kirk tells Gillian that she might have a chance at a longer life if she stayed on Earth, rather than travel to the future in a spaceship that might not make it in one piece. In the ''Trek'' universe, the Eugenics Wars started in 1992. She's probably damn lucky she went forward in time.
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* A case of almost FridgeHorror: Kirk tells Gillian that she might have a chance at a longer life if she stayed on Earth, rather than travel to the future in a spaceship that might not make it in one piece. In the ''Trek'' universe, the Eugenics Wars started in 1992. She's probably damn lucky she went forward in time.time.
** Not necessarily. An episode from Voyager had the crew time travel to the 1990s U.S. and it seemed to be pretty okay. It's implied, but [[GreatOffscreenWar not shown]] that the Eugenics Wars were largely confined to Asia and Africa.
** Not necessarily. An episode from Voyager had the crew time travel to the 1990s U.S. and it seemed to be pretty okay. It's implied, but [[GreatOffscreenWar not shown]] that the Eugenics Wars were largely confined to Asia and Africa.
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fixed redlink
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** The time cops in DS9's "Trials and Tribble-lations" groaned upon hearing that James Kirk was involved with Sisko's story, calling Kirk a 'menace' and was responsible for -I believe - 17 separate time violations.
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** The time cops in DS9's ''[[Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine DS9]]'' 's "Trials and Tribble-lations" groaned upon hearing that James Kirk was involved with Sisko's story, calling Kirk a 'menace' and was responsible for -I believe - 17 separate time violations.
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** The Guardian in The City on the Edge of Forever didn't appear to have, or give, an option to bring someone back who hadn't gone through. It automatically brought back McCoy, Spock, and Kirk once Keeler's death restored the timeline. So, to save Edith Keeler, they'd have to do another warp jump and beam her out, preferably when no one was watching. (And then cause a minor time ripple about a missing woman who is never found...)
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Changed line(s) 49 (click to see context) from:
** The same place the air in the transporter room goes when someone beams in. Presumably the transporter creates a forcefield that starts in the middle and expands to form a cylinder the size of the incoming cylinder. The missing air is replaced by the air being beamed aboard with the traveler.
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** The same place the air in the transporter room goes when someone beams in. Presumably the transporter creates a forcefield that starts in the middle and expands to form a cylinder the size of the incoming cylinder. The missing air is replaced by the air being beamed aboard with the traveler.traveler.
* A case of almost FridgeHorror: Kirk tells Gillian that she might have a chance at a longer life if she stayed on Earth, rather than travel to the future in a spaceship that might not make it in one piece. In the ''Trek'' universe, the Eugenics Wars started in 1992. She's probably damn lucky she went forward in time.
* A case of almost FridgeHorror: Kirk tells Gillian that she might have a chance at a longer life if she stayed on Earth, rather than travel to the future in a spaceship that might not make it in one piece. In the ''Trek'' universe, the Eugenics Wars started in 1992. She's probably damn lucky she went forward in time.
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*** One storyline of the movie before Eddie Murphy left the project had Maltz escape into 20th Century earth while Kirk and crew are off to find some whales. Murphy would have run into him, thereby bringing him into the story.
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** The time cops in DS9's "Trials and Tribble-lations" groaned upon hearing that James Kirk was involved with Sisko's story, calling Kirk a 'menace' and was responsible for -I believe - 17 separate time violations.
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Changed line(s) 46 (click to see context) from:
* When the whales and their surrounding water are beamed aboard into the containment tank...where did the oxygen in the tank go?
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* When the whales and their surrounding water are beamed aboard into the containment tank...where did the oxygen in the tank go?go?
** The same place the air in the transporter room goes when someone beams in. Presumably the transporter creates a forcefield that starts in the middle and expands to form a cylinder the size of the incoming cylinder. The missing air is replaced by the air being beamed aboard with the traveler.
** The same place the air in the transporter room goes when someone beams in. Presumably the transporter creates a forcefield that starts in the middle and expands to form a cylinder the size of the incoming cylinder. The missing air is replaced by the air being beamed aboard with the traveler.
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Changed line(s) 45 (click to see context) from:
* The line "Damage control is easy. Reading Klingon, that's hard!" is actually a in-joke. The original foundations of the Klingon and Vulcan languages stem from the first Star Trek film. And were actually put together by...James Doohan (Scotty).
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* The line "Damage control is easy. Reading Klingon, that's hard!" is actually a in-joke. The original foundations of the Klingon and Vulcan languages stem from the first Star Trek film. And were actually put together by...James Doohan (Scotty).(Scotty).
* When the whales and their surrounding water are beamed aboard into the containment tank...where did the oxygen in the tank go?
* When the whales and their surrounding water are beamed aboard into the containment tank...where did the oxygen in the tank go?
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Changed line(s) 44 (click to see context) from:
*** Plus maybe the whales don't think punishing billions of innocent people (plus possibly lots of other animals as well) isn't a smart idea.
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*** Plus maybe the whales don't think punishing billions of innocent people (plus possibly lots of other animals as well) isn't a smart idea.idea.
* The line "Damage control is easy. Reading Klingon, that's hard!" is actually a in-joke. The original foundations of the Klingon and Vulcan languages stem from the first Star Trek film. And were actually put together by...James Doohan (Scotty).
* The line "Damage control is easy. Reading Klingon, that's hard!" is actually a in-joke. The original foundations of the Klingon and Vulcan languages stem from the first Star Trek film. And were actually put together by...James Doohan (Scotty).
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**** Even Captain Picard has an artificial heart.
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** Spock *asked* the whales to help and they said yes (I take issue with you saying "kidnapped"). Why would they have lied to him? Of course if the whales said no, Kirk might have taken them anyway and caused the scenario you mentioned, but that didn't come up.
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** Spock *asked* the whales to help and they said yes (I take issue with you saying "kidnapped"). Why would they have lied to him? Of course if the whales said no, Kirk might have taken them anyway and caused the scenario you mentioned, but that didn't come up.up.
*** Plus maybe the whales don't think punishing billions of innocent people (plus possibly lots of other animals as well) isn't a smart idea.
*** Plus maybe the whales don't think punishing billions of innocent people (plus possibly lots of other animals as well) isn't a smart idea.
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Changed line(s) 42 (click to see context) from:
** Spock *asked* the whales to help and they said yes. Why would they have lied to him? Of course if the whales said no, Kirk might have taken them anyway and caused the scenario you mentioned, but that didn't come up.
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** Spock *asked* the whales to help and they said yes.yes (I take issue with you saying "kidnapped"). Why would they have lied to him? Of course if the whales said no, Kirk might have taken them anyway and caused the scenario you mentioned, but that didn't come up.
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Changed line(s) 41 (click to see context) from:
** They seemed to get along decently with Spock during his mental discussion with them (they informed him Gracie was pregnant, after all), so evidently these particular humpback whales aren't all ''that'' angry with human-seeming people. Also, George and Gracie likely wouldn't have the full image of just how poorly humans were treating their species, seeing as they'd spend so much of their life in captivity (rather than being out hunted in the polluted waters alongside their gradually-driven-to-extinction kin).
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** They seemed to get along decently with Spock during his mental discussion with them (they informed him Gracie was pregnant, after all), so evidently these particular humpback whales aren't all ''that'' angry with human-seeming people. Also, George and Gracie likely wouldn't have the full image of just how poorly humans were treating their species, seeing as they'd spend so much of their life in captivity (rather than being out hunted in the polluted waters alongside their gradually-driven-to-extinction kin).kin).
** Spock *asked* the whales to help and they said yes. Why would they have lied to him? Of course if the whales said no, Kirk might have taken them anyway and caused the scenario you mentioned, but that didn't come up.
** Spock *asked* the whales to help and they said yes. Why would they have lied to him? Of course if the whales said no, Kirk might have taken them anyway and caused the scenario you mentioned, but that didn't come up.
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** The movie's premise makes time travel in the ''Star Trek'' universe seem much too easy. We can only assume that that ship was special because it belonged to [[Film/BackToTheFuture Christopher Lloyd]].
*** Maybe, but it wasn't without precedent in the series -- this was actually the third or fourth time they'd used that method of time travel. Plus it did have its limits, in that it caused huge stress to the ship that was attempting it, and the range was apparently limited to a few centuries in either direction.
*** Fourth, actually. They did it three times in [[Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries TOS]]. Twice ''on purpose''.
*** The movie does indicate that relatively small miscalculations could have bad effects in timewarp. They risk it here because, well, it is the only plan they manage to come up with.
*** The dream state is what effectively acts as the ultimate limiter. It only lasts a matter of minutes if you hop back a century or two, but beyond that you could spend days, weeks, or ''months'' just laying there asleep.
*** Maybe, but it wasn't without precedent in the series -- this was actually the third or fourth time they'd used that method of time travel. Plus it did have its limits, in that it caused huge stress to the ship that was attempting it, and the range was apparently limited to a few centuries in either direction.
*** Fourth, actually. They did it three times in [[Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries TOS]]. Twice ''on purpose''.
*** The movie does indicate that relatively small miscalculations could have bad effects in timewarp. They risk it here because, well, it is the only plan they manage to come up with.
*** The dream state is what effectively acts as the ultimate limiter. It only lasts a matter of minutes if you hop back a century or two, but beyond that you could spend days, weeks, or ''months'' just laying there asleep.
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** So what happened to Maltz from ''Film/{{Star Trek III|The Search for Spock}}''? Surely if the Federation sent a ship to pick up a Klingon prisoner, they would have picked up Kirk and company as well. Did Maltz spend the entirety of ''Star Trek IV'' in the bird-of-prey's brig?
*** Dropped him off in a Vulcan prison, or at the Klingon embassy on Vulcan, most likely.
*** Given the Klingon [[ProudWarriorRace mentality]] it doesn't seem likely that Klingon birds-of-prey would be equipped with dedicated holding cells--Maltz might have spent time in some sort of high-security closet.
*** Maybe they left him on Vulcan.
*** The film mentions that Sarek's diplomatic powers are what's keeping the Federation from just arresting Kirk and company. Odds are he wouldn't have been inclined to offer Maltz the same protection.
**** In the {{Novelization}}, we learn Maltz committed suicide.
**** However, the ExpandedUniverse has Maltz still alive in [[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration the 24th century]].
** It wasn't even necessary to give the 20th century transparent aluminum. The guy at the factory said that they could build the whale tank with six inch thick plexiglass. So why didn't they just do that?
*** That's exactly what they did do. They traded the Transparent Aluminum formula for the materials they needed. They only had $100 in cash to begin with after all, so they bartered with information.
*** Dropped him off in a Vulcan prison, or at the Klingon embassy on Vulcan, most likely.
*** Given the Klingon [[ProudWarriorRace mentality]] it doesn't seem likely that Klingon birds-of-prey would be equipped with dedicated holding cells--Maltz might have spent time in some sort of high-security closet.
*** Maybe they left him on Vulcan.
*** The film mentions that Sarek's diplomatic powers are what's keeping the Federation from just arresting Kirk and company. Odds are he wouldn't have been inclined to offer Maltz the same protection.
**** In the {{Novelization}}, we learn Maltz committed suicide.
**** However, the ExpandedUniverse has Maltz still alive in [[Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration the 24th century]].
** It wasn't even necessary to give the 20th century transparent aluminum. The guy at the factory said that they could build the whale tank with six inch thick plexiglass. So why didn't they just do that?
*** That's exactly what they did do. They traded the Transparent Aluminum formula for the materials they needed. They only had $100 in cash to begin with after all, so they bartered with information.
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