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* A key point of Adrien's plot line with the Phantom Thieves is that asides from the fact they started the whole thing by making Lila expose herself, ultimately the one responsible for Adrien changing for the better was Adrien himself. The Thieves were extremely jaded towards the world, as they had to deal with society constantly being against them for its own benefit, and had no real faith in people outside of themselves. And in Akira's case, he can even completely give up on society ever reforming itself for the better in the Bad Ending, choosing to abuse his own power like the rest of the targets for his own benefit. Adrien's CharacterDevelopment, the awakening of his Persona and him calling out the Thieves is solid proof to the Thieves that yes, people CAN change for the better without them stealing their twisted desires, so they should have more faith in the world.
** To make this more point more potent, Adrien's development all occurs before the casino heist/the siege on Sae's Palace. Sae was the only target in the original to reform on her own accord without her Treasure being stolen, which also serves as proof that people can change on their own so the Thieves shouldn't give up on society.
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** And then Bunnyx reveals that Chat Blanc will be the consequence for the deadline of Gabriel's Palace, because by then Gabriel will become so desperate to win that [[BatmanGrabsAGun he'll cross his one line]]: deliberately target Adrien.[[/folder]]

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** And then Bunnyx reveals that Chat Blanc will be [[NonStandardGameOver the consequence consequence]] for the deadline of Gabriel's Palace, because by then Gabriel will become so desperate to win that [[BatmanGrabsAGun he'll cross his one line]]: deliberately target Adrien.[[/folder]]

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* Marinette’s biggest fear (and the reason why she’s been increasingly pushing Chat Noir away) is causing another Chat Blanc future. However, with how she and the others (Akira in particular) had been treating him and with Adrien finding out about their knowledge about his father (and how they did nothing to help him earlier), [[SelfFulfillingProphecy she should be thankful her and the others actions’ didn’t get Adrien/Chat Noir akumatized into Chat Blanc anyway..]] [[/folder]]

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* Marinette’s biggest fear (and the reason why she’s been increasingly pushing Chat Noir away) is causing another Chat Blanc future. However, with how she and the others (Akira in particular) had been treating him and with Adrien finding out about their knowledge about his father (and how they did nothing to help him earlier), [[SelfFulfillingProphecy she should be thankful her and the others actions’ didn’t get Adrien/Chat Noir akumatized into Chat Blanc anyway..]] ]]
** And then Bunnyx reveals that Chat Blanc will be the consequence for the deadline of Gabriel's Palace, because by then Gabriel will become so desperate to win that [[BatmanGrabsAGun he'll cross his one line]]: deliberately target Adrien.
[[/folder]]
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** It also serves as a RoleReversal, as Adrien had made a serious mistake abandoning Marinette to Lila due to his naive view of the world and had dealt with the consequences, growing from it. Now the Thieves are at the exact same place Adrien was, having left someone to deal with another’s cruelty due to their viewpoint, which they had to learn the hard way was completely wrong, and now have to face the repercussions of it, as Adrien makes it clear he wants nothing to do with them after Gabriel is redeemed, and have to grow from their mistake themselves.

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** It also serves as a RoleReversal, HourglassPlot, as Adrien had made a serious mistake abandoning Marinette to Lila due to his naive view of the world and had dealt with the consequences, growing from it. Now the Thieves are at the exact same place Adrien was, having left someone to deal with another’s cruelty due to their viewpoint, which they had to learn the hard way was completely wrong, and now have to face the repercussions of it, as Adrien makes it clear he wants nothing to do with them after Gabriel is redeemed, and have to grow from their mistake themselves.
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* Marinette’s biggest fear (and the reason why she’s been increasingly pushing Chat Noir away) is causing another Chat Blanc future. However, with how she and the others (Akira in particular) had been treating him and with Adrien finding out about their knowledge about his father (and how they did nothing to help him earlier), [[SelfFulfillingProphecy she should be thankful her and the others actions didn’t get Adrien/Chat Noir akumatized into Chat Blanc anyway..]] [[/folder]]

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* Marinette’s biggest fear (and the reason why she’s been increasingly pushing Chat Noir away) is causing another Chat Blanc future. However, with how she and the others (Akira in particular) had been treating him and with Adrien finding out about their knowledge about his father (and how they did nothing to help him earlier), [[SelfFulfillingProphecy she should be thankful her and the others actions actions’ didn’t get Adrien/Chat Noir akumatized into Chat Blanc anyway..]] [[/folder]]
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* Marinette’s biggest fear (and the reason why she’s been increasingly pushing Chat Noir away) is causing another Chat Blanc future. However, with how she and the others (Akira in particular) had been treating him and with Adrien finding out about their knowledge about his father (and how they did nothing to help him earlier), [[Self-FulfillingProphecy she should be thankful her and the others actions didn’t get Adrien/Chat Noir akumatized into Chat Blanc anyway..]] [[/folder]]

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* Marinette’s biggest fear (and the reason why she’s been increasingly pushing Chat Noir away) is causing another Chat Blanc future. However, with how she and the others (Akira in particular) had been treating him and with Adrien finding out about their knowledge about his father (and how they did nothing to help him earlier), [[Self-FulfillingProphecy [[SelfFulfillingProphecy she should be thankful her and the others actions didn’t get Adrien/Chat Noir akumatized into Chat Blanc anyway..]] [[/folder]]

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** The reason she's refusing to tell him anything is she's a part of the Phantom Thieves and he has admittedly valid concerns about their actions. When he finds out about his father, he's inevitably going to want to know where she got the info, which will undoubtedly result in him finding out that Ladybug is at least connected with the Phantom Thieves. Finding out that Ladybug was at the very least complicit with no less than 4 major akuma attacks (5, if you count Okumura), on top of the revelation with his dad? Who knows how he'll react...![[/folder]]

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** The reason she's refusing to tell him anything is she's a part of the Phantom Thieves and he has admittedly valid concerns about their actions. When he finds out about his father, he's inevitably going to want to know where she got the info, which will undoubtedly result in him finding out that Ladybug is at least connected with the Phantom Thieves. Finding out that Ladybug was at the very least complicit with no less than 4 major akuma attacks (5, if you count Okumura), on top of the revelation with his dad? Who knows how he'll react...![[/folder]]!
* Marinette’s biggest fear (and the reason why she’s been increasingly pushing Chat Noir away) is causing another Chat Blanc future. However, with how she and the others (Akira in particular) had been treating him and with Adrien finding out about their knowledge about his father (and how they did nothing to help him earlier), [[Self-FulfillingProphecy she should be thankful her and the others actions didn’t get Adrien/Chat Noir akumatized into Chat Blanc anyway..]] [[/folder]]
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** It also serves as a RoleReversal, as Adrien had made a serious mistake abandoning Marinette to Lila due to his naive view of the world and had dealt with the consequences, growing from it. Now the Thieves are at the exact same place Adrien was, having unwittingly left someone to deal with another’s cruelty due to their viewpoint, which they had to learn the hard way was completely wrong, and now have to face the repercussions of it, as Adrien makes it clear he wants nothing to do with them after Gabriel is redeemed, and have to grow from their mistake themselves.

to:

** It also serves as a RoleReversal, as Adrien had made a serious mistake abandoning Marinette to Lila due to his naive view of the world and had dealt with the consequences, growing from it. Now the Thieves are at the exact same place Adrien was, having unwittingly left someone to deal with another’s cruelty due to their viewpoint, which they had to learn the hard way was completely wrong, and now have to face the repercussions of it, as Adrien makes it clear he wants nothing to do with them after Gabriel is redeemed, and have to grow from their mistake themselves.
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** It also serves as a RoleReversal, as Adrien had made a serious mistake abandoning Marinette to Lila due to his naive view of the world and had dealt with the consequences, growing from it. Now the Thieves are at the exact same place Adrien was, having unwittingly left someone to deal with another’s cruelty due to their viewpoint, which they had to learn the hard way was completely wrong, and now have to face the repercussions of it, as Adrien makes it clear he wants nothing to do with them after Gabriel is redeemed.

to:

** It also serves as a RoleReversal, as Adrien had made a serious mistake abandoning Marinette to Lila due to his naive view of the world and had dealt with the consequences, growing from it. Now the Thieves are at the exact same place Adrien was, having unwittingly left someone to deal with another’s cruelty due to their viewpoint, which they had to learn the hard way was completely wrong, and now have to face the repercussions of it, as Adrien makes it clear he wants nothing to do with them after Gabriel is redeemed.redeemed, and have to grow from their mistake themselves.
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** It also serves as a RoleReversal, as Adrien had made a serious mistake abandoning Marinette to Lila (who was also a SerialMurderer who bullied her victims into suicide, unknown to Adrien) due to his naive view of the world and had dealt with the consequences, growing from it. Now the Thieves are at the exact same place Adrien was, having unwittingly left someone to deal with another’s cruelty due to their viewpoint and now have to face the repercussions of it, as Adrien makes it clear he wants nothing to do with them after Gabriel is redeemed.

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** It also serves as a RoleReversal, as Adrien had made a serious mistake abandoning Marinette to Lila (who was also a SerialMurderer who bullied her victims into suicide, unknown to Adrien) due to his naive view of the world and had dealt with the consequences, growing from it. Now the Thieves are at the exact same place Adrien was, having unwittingly left someone to deal with another’s cruelty due to their viewpoint viewpoint, which they had to learn the hard way was completely wrong, and now have to face the repercussions of it, as Adrien makes it clear he wants nothing to do with them after Gabriel is redeemed.
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** It also serves as a RoleReversal, as Adrien had made a serious mistake abandoning Marinette to Lila (who was also a SerialMurderer who bullied her victims into suicide, unknown to Adrien) due to his naive view of the world and had dealt with the consequences, growing from it. Now the Thieves are at the exact same place Adrien was, having unwittingly left someone to deal with another’s cruelty due to their viewpoint and now have to face the repercussions of it, as Adrien makes it clear he wants nothing to do with them after Gabriel is redeemed.
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* Adrien/Chat Noir’s plot line mainly consisted of the Thieves looking down at him due to their impressions of him as someone who abandoned Marinette for his own convenience and is untrustworthy. However, Adrien grew as a person throughout the story, ultimately culminating in him following them out of concern despite their mistreatment of him (ultimately ending up in Gabriel’s Palace) while the others continued to mistrust him, resulting in them doing nothing to protect him from Gabriel. Not only does this show [[CharacterDevelopment how much Adrien had grown]], but he also ends up as the better person then any of the Thieves, as he had realized his views on the world was incorrect, had tried to accept it and changed for the better, while the Thieves continued to hold onto their negative view of him until it was nearly far too late, leaving them to deal with the consequences of it.

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* Adrien/Chat Noir’s plot line mainly consisted of the Thieves looking down at him due to their impressions of him as someone who abandoned Marinette for his own convenience and is untrustworthy. However, Adrien grew as a person throughout the story, ultimately culminating in him following them out of concern despite their mistreatment of him (ultimately ending up in Gabriel’s Palace) while the others continued to mistrust him, resulting in them doing nothing to protect him from Gabriel. Not only does this show [[CharacterDevelopment how much Adrien had grown]], but he also ends up as the better person then any of the Thieves, as he had realized his views on the world was incorrect, had tried to accept it and changed for the better, while the Thieves continued to hold onto their negative view viewpoint of him until it was nearly far too late, leaving them to deal with the consequences of it.
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* Adrien/Chat Noir’s plot line mainly consisted of the Thieves looking down at him due to their impressions of him as someone who abandoned Marinette for his own convenience and is untrustworthy. However, Adrien grew as a person throughout the story, ultimately culminating in him following them out of concern despite their mistreatment of him (ultimately ending up in Gabriel’s Palace) while the others continued to mistrust him, resulting in them doing nothing to protect him from Gabriel. Not only does this show [[CharacterDevelopment how much Adrien had grown]], but he also ends up as the better person then any of the Thieves, as he had realized his views on the world was incorrect, had tried to accept it and changed for the better, while the Thieves continued to hold onto their negative view of him until it was nearly far too late, leaving them to deal with the consequences of it.
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** This is eventually flipped over, as the Thieves were fully intending on keeping Adrien out of the loop in regards to his father (who had also murdered Audrey) due to their refusal to trust him. If Adrien hadn’t run into the Thieves when he was taken into Gabriel’s Palace or had found out the truth another way and had confronted Gabriel himself, it’s very likely Gabriel would had done something to him, as he’s made it clear that he’s willing to exploit his own son and sees him as a mindless robot. And while Maccabaeus could had prevented him from being akumatized into Chat Blanc, anything that would had happened to Adrien would had been on the Thieves as they willingly kept him in the dark.

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** This is eventually flipped over, as the Thieves were fully intending on keeping Adrien out of the loop in regards to his father (who had also murdered Audrey) due to their refusal to trust him. If Adrien hadn’t run into the Thieves when he was taken into Gabriel’s Palace or had found out the truth another way and had confronted Gabriel himself, it’s very likely Gabriel would had done something to him, as (as he’s made it clear that he’s willing to exploit his own son and sees him as a mindless robot. And while Maccabaeus could had prevented him from being akumatized into Chat Blanc, anything robot) and that would had happened to Adrien would had been completely on the Thieves as they willingly kept for leaving him in the dark.at Gabriel’s mercy.
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** This is eventually flipped over, as the Thieves were fully intending on keeping Adrien out of the loop in regards to his father (who had also murdered Audrey) due to their refusal to trust him. If Adrien hadn’t run into the Thieves when he was taken into Gabriel’s Palace or had found out the truth another way and had confronted Gabriel himself, it’s very likely Gabriel would had done something to him, as he’s made it clear that he’s willing to exploit his own son and sees him as a mindless robot. And while Maccabaeus could had prevented him from being akumatized into Chat Blanc, anything that would had happened to Adrien would had been on the Thieves as they willingly kept him in the dark.
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** The reason she's refusing to tell him anything is she's a part of the Phantom Thieves and he has admittedly valid concerns about their actions. When he finds out about his father, he's inevitably going to want to know where she got the info, which will undoubtedly result in him finding out that Ladybug is at least connected with the Phantom Thieves. Finding out that Ladybug was at the very least complicit with no less than 4 major akuma attacks, (5, if you count Okumura) on top of the revelation with his dad? Who knows how he'll react...![[/folder]]

to:

** The reason she's refusing to tell him anything is she's a part of the Phantom Thieves and he has admittedly valid concerns about their actions. When he finds out about his father, he's inevitably going to want to know where she got the info, which will undoubtedly result in him finding out that Ladybug is at least connected with the Phantom Thieves. Finding out that Ladybug was at the very least complicit with no less than 4 major akuma attacks, attacks (5, if you count Okumura) Okumura), on top of the revelation with his dad? Who knows how he'll react...![[/folder]]
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* Why in the RYVAL-Verse does the goat miraculous give a flight-like ability when Ziggy is stated to be the Kwamii of Imagination? Because a common phenomenon in dreams, when a person's imagination is in full control, is flight.

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* Why in the RYVAL-Verse RYVAL-verse does the goat miraculous Goat Miraculous give a flight-like ability when Ziggy is stated to be the Kwamii Kwami of Imagination? Because a common phenomenon in dreams, when a person's imagination is in full control, is flight.



** The reason she's refusing to tell him anything is she's a part of the Phantom Thieves and he has admittingly valid concerns about their actions. When he finds out about his father, he's inevitably going to want to know where she got the info, which will undoubtedly result in him finding out that Ladybug is at least connected with the Phantom Thieves. Finding out that Ladybug was at the very least complicit with no less than 4 major Akuma attacks, (5 is you count Okumura) on top of the revelation with his dad? Who knows how he'll react.[[/folder]]

to:

** The reason she's refusing to tell him anything is she's a part of the Phantom Thieves and he has admittingly admittedly valid concerns about their actions. When he finds out about his father, he's inevitably going to want to know where she got the info, which will undoubtedly result in him finding out that Ladybug is at least connected with the Phantom Thieves. Finding out that Ladybug was at the very least complicit with no less than 4 major Akuma akuma attacks, (5 is (5, if you count Okumura) on top of the revelation with his dad? Who knows how he'll react.[[/folder]]react...![[/folder]]

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[[/folder]]

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* Chat Noir has been increasingly LockedOutOfTheLoop over the course of the story on a level that surpasses the canon season 4 and his attempts to rectify this have all failed miserably. Ladybug knows the identities of everyone but him and he knows no one. It gets to the point where he feels that he's genuinely not a part of the team anymore and says as much. And now Marinette knows Hawkmoth's identity...and is ''also'' keeping this from Chat Noir. Even considering the fact that Ladybug doesn't know that they're related, the fact that Ladybug knows exactly where Hawkmoth is and is neglecting to tell him despite him just ''murdering'' Audrey is something that is going to cause Chat Noir to absolutely [[RageBreakingPoint lose his shit]] when he finds out.
** The reason she's refusing to tell him anything is she's a part of the Phantom Thieves and he has admittingly valid concerns about their actions. When he finds out about his father, he's inevitably going to want to know where she got the info, which will undoubtedly result in him finding out that Ladybug is at least connected with the Phantom Thieves. Finding out that Ladybug was at the very least complicit with no less than 4 major Akuma attacks, (5 is you count Okumura) on top of the revelation with his dad? Who knows how he'll react.
[[/folder]]
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[[folder:Fridge Brilliance]]
*Why in the RYVAL-Verse does the goat miraculous give a flight-like ability when Ziggy is stated to be the Kwamii of Imagination? Because a common phenomenon in dreams, when a person's imagination is in full control, is flight.
[[/folder]]

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* Considering what Akira had been through, and the fact Luka had barely saved Marinette before the Phantom Thieves arrived, Adrien should consider himself VERY lucky that things with Lila had ended the way they did. If Lila had succeeded and the truth came out later, it’s VERY likely he would had faced SEVERE consequences for essentially and unintentionally allowing her to murder Marinette, not just losing the respect of his friends.

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* Considering what Akira had been through, and the fact Luka had barely saved Marinette before the Phantom Thieves arrived, Adrien should consider himself VERY lucky that things with Lila had ended the way they did. If Lila had succeeded and the truth came out later, it’s VERY likely he would had faced SEVERE consequences for essentially and unintentionally allowing her to murder Marinette, Marinette and covering up for her, not just losing the respect of his friends.
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* Considering what Akira had been through, and the fact Luka had barely saved Marinette before the Phantom Thieves arrived, Adrien should consider himself VERY lucky that things with Lila had ended the way they did. If Lila had succeeded and the truth came out later, it’s VERY likely he would had faced SEVERE consequences for essentially allowing her to murder Marinette, not just losing the respect of his friends.

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* Considering what Akira had been through, and the fact Luka had barely saved Marinette before the Phantom Thieves arrived, Adrien should consider himself VERY lucky that things with Lila had ended the way they did. If Lila had succeeded and the truth came out later, it’s VERY likely he would had faced SEVERE consequences for essentially and unintentionally allowing her to murder Marinette, not just losing the respect of his friends.

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* Considering what Akira had been through, and the fact Luka had barely saved Marinette before the Phantom Thieves arrived, Adrien should consider himself VERY lucky that things with Lila had ended the way they did. If Lila had succeeded and the truth came out later, it’s VERY likely he would had faced SEVERE consequences for essentially allowing her to murder Marinette.

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* Considering what Akira had been through, and the fact Luka had barely saved Marinette before the Phantom Thieves arrived, Adrien should consider himself VERY lucky that things with Lila had ended the way they did. If Lila had succeeded and the truth came out later, it’s VERY likely he would had faced SEVERE consequences for essentially allowing her to murder Marinette.Marinette, not just losing the respect of his friends.
[[/folder]]
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[[folder:Fridge Horror]]
* Considering what Akira had been through, and the fact Luka had barely saved Marinette before the Phantom Thieves arrived, Adrien should consider himself VERY lucky that things with Lila had ended the way they did. If Lila had succeeded and the truth came out later, it’s VERY likely he would had faced SEVERE consequences for essentially allowing her to murder Marinette.

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