Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Fridge / MiddleEarthShadowOfWar

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Trope was cut/disambiguated due to cleanup


** From Shelob's perspective: this future only did not come to pass thanks to Talion being a SpannerInTheWorks and choosing to MercyKill Isildur. Consider that she returned the Ring to the leads so they could raise their army to stop Sauron, even though she knew that future could still happen, but had no way to stop them. She did not influence Talion in any way, as she tells him that "he saw Celebrimbror [[EvilAllAlong for whom he was]]". It was due to [[ForWantOfANail sheer luck and chance]] that this BadFuture was '''barely averted'''; one might argue it wasn't chance, but Shelob being the rare Evil '''Can''' Comprehend Good and knowing giving Talion a little bit of knowledge would save the world.

to:

** From Shelob's perspective: this future only did not come to pass thanks to Talion being a SpannerInTheWorks and choosing to MercyKill Isildur. Consider that she returned the Ring to the leads so they could raise their army to stop Sauron, even though she knew that future could still happen, but had no way to stop them. She did not influence Talion in any way, as she tells him that "he saw Celebrimbror [[EvilAllAlong for whom he was]]". It was due to [[ForWantOfANail sheer luck and chance]] chance that this BadFuture was '''barely averted'''; one might argue it wasn't chance, but Shelob being the rare Evil '''Can''' Comprehend Good and knowing giving Talion a little bit of knowledge would save the world.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Trope was cut/disambiguated due to cleanup


* For the final boss battle with Sauron's Annatar form, he uses a sword, a weapon he's [[DropTheHammer not known for using]] at any other time. This particular sword is special, though; it looks just like the Bright Lord's Sword. Or more likely, it ''is'' Celebrimbor's original sword, which Sauron kept for two and a half thousand years just so he could [[HoistByHisOwnPetard maim his nemesis with his own weapon.]] It also helps that a bladed weapon would be more useful than his warhammer for removing the New Ring from Celebrimbor's hand (he ends up using a dagger to do this, instead, but his sword would've been just as effective). And they say villains never learn!

to:

* For the final boss battle with Sauron's Annatar form, he uses a sword, a weapon he's [[DropTheHammer not known for using]] using at any other time. This particular sword is special, though; it looks just like the Bright Lord's Sword. Or more likely, it ''is'' Celebrimbor's original sword, which Sauron kept for two and a half thousand years just so he could [[HoistByHisOwnPetard maim his nemesis with his own weapon.]] It also helps that a bladed weapon would be more useful than his warhammer for removing the New Ring from Celebrimbor's hand (he ends up using a dagger to do this, instead, but his sword would've been just as effective). And they say villains never learn!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

**Frodo is also the in universe author of the vast majority of the Lord of the Rings in the novel. So it's possible this explanation could also apply to the novel though Tolkien probably would've jossed it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* Shelob can take the shape of a beautiful human woman...with oddly pale skin, an unsettling way of moving, and eyes that don't exactly reflect light normally. (''Unless'' it's the light from the New Ring.) But all of these were normal in the flashback, before Annatar betrayed her and she decided to give up on the whole "human" thing for a while.

Added: 57

Changed: 919

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Update to some of the entries


* There's another reason Shelob allied with Talion: as a Man, Talion had the Gift of Man, enabling him to create his own fate. Celebrimbor's plan was always doomed to fail without Talion -- as shown when he abandoned Talion and allied with Eltariel, an elf.

to:

* There's another reason Shelob allied with Talion: tried to drive a wedge between the Bright Lord and his host: as a Man, Talion had the Gift of Man, enabling him to create his own fate. Celebrimbor's plan was always doomed to fail without Talion -- as shown when he abandoned Talion and allied with Eltariel, an elf.elf, inevitably resulting in Sauron [[spoiler:resisting his attempt to Dominate him long enough to cut Eltariel's finger with the New Ring off and merge with Celebrimbor, resulting in them both becoming the Flaming Eye.]] In fact, ''Sauron himself'' realized this, as one of his dialogues during the final battle indicates.
-->'''Sauron:''' You lost the Ranger. That was a mistake.



* In the end, Talion has a much better end than Celebrimbor. Yes, he is corrupted by a Nazgul Ring and eventually turns into a brainwashed slave of Sauron... with the brainwashing being, at most, a couple months before the ''Lord of the Rings'' trilogy begins. The trilogy covers events that last about one year, by which point the One Ring is destroyed and Talion gets what he always wanted; to die in peace, knowing Sauron is gone, with the potential that a survivor from the game will recall the Gravewalker and what he did to delay Sauron. On the other hand, Celebrimbor is eaten by Sauron and is, at most, remembered as one of the would-be tyrants that would have been worse than Sauron in some ways, especially if Ithariel survived and is understandably pissed about being forcibly conscripted for his personal ambitions. Now tell us, which of these people had a HeelRealization and came to understand they were just another Dark Lord in the making?

to:

* In the end, Talion has a much better end than Celebrimbor. Yes, he is corrupted by a Nazgul Ring of Power and eventually turns into a brainwashed slave of Sauron... with the brainwashing being, at most, a couple months before the story of the ''Lord of the Rings'' trilogy begins. The trilogy covers Those events that last about one year, by which point the One Ring is destroyed and Talion gets what he always wanted; to die in peace, knowing Sauron is gone, with the potential that a survivor from (possibly Hirgon and the game Outcasts who escaped in the first game) will recall the Gravewalker and what he did to delay Sauron. On the other hand, Celebrimbor is eaten by forcibly joined with Sauron and is, at most, remembered as one of the would-be tyrants that would have been worse than Sauron in some ways, especially if Ithariel Eltariel survived and is understandably pissed about being forcibly conscripted for his personal ambitions. Now tell us, which of these people had a HeelRealization and came to understand they were just another Dark Lord in the making?



* In the first game, Celebrimdor helps acclimate Talion to the idea of HeelFaceBrainwashing by assuring him that they are branding only orcs, the AlwaysChaoticEvil creations of Sauron and his predecessors. Talion still doesn't like it, but he's fine with using the wraith's powers on evil creatures, seeing it as [[PayEvilUntoEvil karmic in its own way]]. Celebrimbor further assures him of this after he sees Helm Hammerhand's fall, reminding him that they are enslaving monsters, not Free Peoples. Talion finally draws the line when Celebrimbor decides to brand Isildur, who WasOnceAMan, despite now being a Nazgul - the wraith lost Talion's trust when he crossed a line he'd previously said they never would.
* The Shadow War. The reason the section can feel like a long slog is because it was meant to show how Talion eventually succumbed to Isildur's Ring. Talion spent '''''DECADES''''' invading and defending forts in Mordor. Not only that, but he spent those decades doing so ALONE. Before, he had Celebrimbor to talk to, he had non-uruk allies; but during the Shadow Wars, Talion was alone with only himself, a corrupting ring, and an army that might betray him for any reason at any moment, and we have no idea if Shelob stayed in contact with him. Furthermore, when Talion and Celebrimbor made the New Ring, it wasn't designed to corrupt people, but Isildur's Ring (one of the Nine Rings of Men) ''was''. It's almost touching in the Blade of Galadriel DLC, that Talion has Lithariel and her group of genuinely loyal followers to interact with.
* The fact that the Nazgul can be fought and defeated as a group with relative ease, but the individual Nazgul are major bosses is quite frustrating. This actually has an explanation. Tolkien stated at one point that the Nazgul sent after Frodo were not wearing their rings, which were kept safely in Baradur (recall how the Witch-King's ring was not retrieved after his death in Return of the King?). This explains the discrepancy. As a group, they are ringless. However, after their defeat, Sauron [[GodzillaThreshold grants them their rings back]] so that they can fight against Talion. After the disastrous incident with Isildur at the end of Act 2, Sauron once again returns to the policy of keeping the Nazgul rings in his personal possession.

to:

* In the first game, Celebrimdor helps acclimate Talion to the idea of HeelFaceBrainwashing as a solid tactic by assuring him that they are branding only orcs, the AlwaysChaoticEvil creations of Sauron and his predecessors. Talion still doesn't like it, but he's fine with using the wraith's powers on evil creatures, seeing it as [[PayEvilUntoEvil karmic in its own way]]. Celebrimbor further assures him of this after he sees Helm Hammerhand's fall, reminding him that they are enslaving monsters, not Free Peoples. Talion finally draws the line when Celebrimbor decides to brand Isildur, who WasOnceAMan, despite now being a Nazgul - the wraith lost Talion's trust when he crossed a line he'd previously said they never would.
* The Shadow War. Wars. The reason Act IV of the section game's story can feel like a long slog is because it was meant to show how Talion eventually succumbed to Isildur's Ring. Talion spent '''''DECADES''''' (the time between the story of ''The Hobbit'' and ''Lord of the Rings'') invading and defending forts in Mordor. Not only that, but he spent those decades doing so ALONE. Before, he had Celebrimbor to talk to, he had non-uruk allies; but during the Shadow Wars, Talion was alone with only himself, a corrupting ring, and an army that might betray him for any reason at any moment, and we have no idea if Shelob stayed in contact with him. Furthermore, when Talion and Celebrimbor made the New Ring, it wasn't designed to corrupt people, but Isildur's Ring (one of the Nine Rings of Men) ''was''. It's almost touching in the Blade of Galadriel DLC, that Talion has Lithariel Eltariel and her group of genuinely loyal followers to interact with.
with, even if it's likely that his final fall as a Nazgul meant he had to enslave them back to Sauron's side.
* The fact that the Nazgul can be fought and defeated as a group with relative ease, but the individual Nazgul are major bosses is quite frustrating. This actually has an explanation. Tolkien stated at one point that the Nazgul sent after Frodo were not wearing their rings, which were kept safely in Baradur Bara-dur (recall how the Witch-King's ring was not retrieved after his death in Return of the King?). This explains the discrepancy. As a group, they are ringless. However, after their defeat, Sauron [[GodzillaThreshold grants them their rings back]] so that they can fight against Talion. After the disastrous incident with Isildur at the end of Act 2, and one of the Rings of Power almost being lost if not for Talion being forced to wear it, Sauron once again returns to the policy of keeping the Nazgul rings in his personal possession.



* It may seem odd that ''now'' Orcs can shake off Talion's Domination of them, until one realizes that ''Shadow of Mordor'' was an extremely short time frame compared to ''Shadow of War'', and they basically didn't have a ''chance'' to break free. In addition, in the first game, Sauron wasn't involved in the action; in ''War'', he's now in direct control of Orc armies instead of The Tower and he can even make Orcs ''immune'' to Domination -- which was demonstrated to dramatic effect in the Bright Lord DLC.
* The choice of Isildur instead of some random Human King makes sense from a narrative point of view. The developers needed a MoralEventHorizon for Talion that Celebrimbor would happily cross. Branding Isildur would be akin to branding UsefulNotes/AbrahamLincoln or Myth/KingArthur for Talion.

to:

* It may seem odd that ''now'' Orcs can shake off Talion's Domination of them, until one realizes that ''Shadow of Mordor'' was an extremely short time frame compared to ''Shadow of War'', and they basically didn't have a ''chance'' to break free. In addition, in the first game, Sauron wasn't involved in the action; in ''War'', he's now in direct control of Orc armies instead of The Tower and relying on his Black Captains. He even showed that he can even directly make Orcs ''immune'' to Domination -- which was demonstrated to dramatic effect in the Bright Lord DLC.
* The choice of Isildur instead of some random Human King makes sense from a narrative point of view. The developers needed a MoralEventHorizon for Talion that Celebrimbor would happily cross. Branding Isildur would be akin to branding someone like UsefulNotes/AbrahamLincoln or Myth/KingArthur for Talion.Myth/KingArthur, even if he WasOnceAMan.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Sauron turning both Helm Hammerhand and [[spoiler:Isildur]] into Nazgul could give an insight what fates might be in store for Eowyn (destroyed the Witch King after Merry Brandybuck stabbed the Lord of the Nazgul with the enchanted Barrow-Blade) and Aragorn (heir of Isildur) had Sauron won the War of the Ring.

to:

* Sauron turning both Helm Hammerhand and [[spoiler:Isildur]] Isildur into Nazgul could give an insight what fates might be in store for Eowyn (destroyed the Witch King after Merry Brandybuck stabbed the Lord of the Nazgul with the enchanted Barrow-Blade) and Aragorn (heir of Isildur) had Sauron won the War of the Ring.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Update to some of the entries

Added DiffLines:

** This is doubled in the ''Blade of Eltarial'' DLC as, during the first battle against Dark Talion, if the Bow is used to attack him, he does not move at normal speed despite supposedly being a Ringwraith. He explicitly declares to Eltariel at the end of the fight that, though he wears Isildur's Ring, he is "not yet a Nazgûl".
Tabs MOD

Changed: 12

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Kill Em All was renamed Everybody Dies Ending due to misuse. Dewicking


* Let's all hope that Mâku is the only one who knows how to make the poisonous fog that Eltariel uses to gas the Seregost fort. If Saruman or Sauron had that or something like it for Helm's Deep or Minas Tirith, [[KillEmAll those battles would have gone very differently]].

to:

* Let's all hope that Mâku is the only one who knows how to make the poisonous fog that Eltariel uses to gas the Seregost fort. If Saruman or Sauron had that or something like it for Helm's Deep or Minas Tirith, [[KillEmAll those battles would have gone very differently]].differently.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

* Why is Talion unable to cross rivers in the game? Even seemingly shallow ones? Because ''wraiths fear water.''

Top