Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Fridge / DragonAgeII

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* While characters in {{Role Playing Game}}s always start out weak and become insanely strong later, ''Dragon Age II'' actually takes place over a decade, explaining how Hawke was able to go from a poor refugee with decent fighting skill to an unstoppable fighter.

to:

* While characters in {{Role Playing Game}}s always start out weak and become insanely strong later, ''Dragon Age II'' actually takes place over a decade, explaining how Hawke was is able to go from a poor refugee with decent fighting skill skills to an unstoppable fighter.fighter over.

Added: 335

Changed: 74

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why is the "Champion" specialization not available in the game? Because Hawke always becomes a Champion! As the story goes on, Hawke naturally gains the skill to lead others, while the stories of his/her deeds inspire confidence in anyone they meet, regardless of what class Hawke is.

to:

* Why is the "Champion" specialization not available in the this game? Because Hawke always becomes a Champion! As the story goes on, Hawke naturally gradually gains the skill to lead others, skills and experience as a leader, while the stories of his/her deeds inspire their fame and renown inspires confidence in anyone they meet, regardless of what class Hawke is.is.
** How does the Warden unlock the Champion specialization in ''Origins''? By being hailed as a hero for protecting Redcliffe village and saving Arl Eamon's family. No matter what happens, Hawke will always face the Qunari in Act II and, regardless of how they resolve the conflict, be hailed as a hero and crowned Champion of Kirkwall.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* If may seem odd that Anders' or Isabela's real name is not revealed if Hawke romances either, but in said event, Hawke likely refused to share the details with Varric out of privacy. Alternatively, Hawke didn't ask or Varric isn't sharing because [[ThatManIsDead they recognize that Anders and Isabela aren't those people anymore.]]

to:

* If It may seem odd that Anders' or Isabela's Anders and Isabela never have their real name is not names revealed if Hawke romances either, either; but in said event, Hawke likely refused to share the details with Varric out of privacy. Alternatively, Hawke didn't ask or and/or Varric isn't sharing because [[ThatManIsDead they recognize that Anders and Isabela aren't those people anymore.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Say what you will about Elthina, but she is not an idiot; assuming that Hawke is a mage, she will spot in from their first conversation. Yet after talking to them, she will realize that despite being an apostate throughout all their life, Hawke has shown that they are responsible enough to handle the dangers of magic. She has pretty much given them a reprieve from the Templars. No wonder Meredith feels pissed off whenever she's around Hawke; her boss has pretty much told her that Hawke is off limits. This may also explain why Bethany was caught if Hawke is not a mage and didn't bring her to the Deep Roads: Elthina knew that she wanted to experience life in the Circle, and gave her the opportunity to do so in a disguise as the Templars doing a sting.

to:

* Say what you will about Elthina, but she is not an idiot; assuming that Hawke is a mage, she will spot in it from their first conversation. Yet after talking to them, she will realize that despite being an apostate throughout all their life, Hawke has shown that they are responsible enough to handle the dangers of magic. She has pretty much given them a reprieve from the Templars. No wonder Meredith feels pissed off whenever she's around Hawke; her boss has pretty much told her that Hawke is off limits. This may also explain why Bethany was caught if Hawke is not a mage and didn't bring her to the Deep Roads: Elthina knew that she wanted to experience life in the Circle, and gave her the opportunity to do so in a disguise as the Templars doing a sting.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Any decent author or piece of writing advice will tell you that it's best not to describe what the characters wearing from one day to the next, ''unless'' it's important to the plot. And fortunately, there are characters who fall under this. Aveline and her rise in the guard, Carver and Bethany's uniforms depending on where they end up by Act II, Hawke's love interest, Hawke and Tallis in ''Mark of the Assassin'', and Anders in Act 3. Everyone else, like the companions Hawke doesn't romance and side characters like Gamlen, Bodahn, and Sandal, stay the same throughout seven years because any wardrobe change or change in hairstyle they might have had is not important to the story.

to:

*** Any decent author or piece of writing advice will tell you that it's best not to describe what the characters wearing from one day to the next, ''unless'' it's important to the plot. And fortunately, there are characters who fall under this. Aveline and her rise in the guard, Carver and Bethany's uniforms depending on where they end up by Act II, 2, Hawke's love interest, Hawke and Tallis in ''Mark of the Assassin'', and Anders in Act 3. Everyone else, like the companions Hawke doesn't romance and side characters like Gamlen, Bodahn, and Sandal, stay the same throughout seven years because any wardrobe change or change in hairstyle they might have had is not important to the story.



* One of the complaints thrown around is that the player is railroaded in the end as you can only choose between mages and Templars, but it's on purpose. As each Act goes on, the level-headed people who want to prevent an open conflict (or even find a better solution) are killed in various ways, until finally there is no choice but to have a war. If you play Hawke as favoring one side from the beginning, it's not that big of a deal. But if you are trying to avoid the inevitable fate, the feelings of the player will match the feelings Hawke has as they are unable to avert a very bloody conflict. The fact that there only two choices in the end drives home the game's position as a Deconstruction of fantasy. You are ''not'' an almighty God-hero of legend. In the FrameStory, Varric repeatedly surprises Cassandra by telling her the truth of the "Champion of Kirkwall" - their involvement in pretty much all of Acts 1 and 2 are circumstantial, and Hawke was only pivotal because they happened to be in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time. Cassandra spots this and calls Varric out when his story becomes too unbelievable. Act 3's contribution to this DeconstructorFleet? ''You don't get a third option.'' There are other people in this world, some who have more power than others. The world isn't shaped by your decisions alone, but a combination of yours and those of others.

to:

* One of the complaints thrown around is that the player is railroaded in the end as you can only choose between mages and Templars, but it's on purpose. As each Act act goes on, the level-headed people who want to prevent an open conflict (or even find a better solution) are killed in various ways, until finally there is no choice but to have a war. If you play Hawke as favoring one side from the beginning, it's not that big of a deal. But if you are trying to avoid the inevitable fate, the feelings of the player will match the feelings Hawke has as they are unable to avert a very bloody conflict. The fact that there only two choices in the end drives home the game's position as a Deconstruction of fantasy. You are ''not'' an almighty God-hero of legend. In the FrameStory, Varric repeatedly surprises Cassandra by telling her the truth of the "Champion of Kirkwall" - their involvement in pretty much all of Acts 1 and 2 are circumstantial, and Hawke was only pivotal because they happened to be in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time. Cassandra spots this and calls Varric out when his story becomes too unbelievable. Act 3's contribution to this DeconstructorFleet? ''You don't get a third option.'' There are other people in this world, some who have more power than others. The world isn't shaped by your decisions alone, but a combination of yours and those of others.



** Double-points for all the specializations having some way for Hawke to pick them up in the first couple acts. Force Magic seems to be a Kirkwall thing, so they could have gotten books stolen from the Gallows to learn it. Spirit Healing is Anders' shtick, and Merrill knows Blood Magic. There's enough Templars around that Hawke could probably pick up the basics, they could have learned how to be a berserker from surface dwarves or muscle on the Deep Roads expedition, to be an assassin from some gang, and to be a Reaver, you have to consume the blood of a dragon - dragons which are faced in the first act in the Bone Pit. Isabela is the Duelist trainer in ''Origins'', and the Shadow manual was available for purchase in ''Awakening'', so presumably Hawke could get their hands on a copy in a port city like Kirkwall.

to:

** Double-points Double points for all the specializations having some way for Hawke to pick them up in the first couple acts. Force Magic seems to be a Kirkwall thing, so they could have gotten books stolen from the Gallows to learn it. Spirit Healing is Anders' shtick, and Merrill knows Blood Magic. There's enough Templars around that Hawke could probably pick up the basics, they could have learned how to be a berserker from surface dwarves or muscle on the Deep Roads expedition, to be an assassin from some gang, and to be a Reaver, you have to consume the blood of a dragon - dragons which are faced in the first act in the Bone Pit. Isabela is the Duelist trainer in ''Origins'', and the Shadow manual was available for purchase in ''Awakening'', so presumably Hawke could get their hands on a copy in a port city like Kirkwall.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The Injury debuff has gone from having different effects to a simple maximum health reduction. In a story with so much action, it would take forever to describe every sprained ankle or broken rib. So instead, Varric might say they got pretty banged up or shaken and leave it at that.

to:

** The Injury debuff has gone from having different effects to a simple maximum health reduction. In a story with so much action, it It would take forever to describe every sprained ankle or broken rib.rib in a story with so much action. So instead, Varric might say they got pretty banged up or shaken and leave it at that.



** Confirmed in ''Inquisition''. In party banter, Iron Bull expresses disbelief that so many people attacked Hawke, to which Varric mostly admits he made up.

to:

** Confirmed in ''Inquisition''. In party banter, Iron Bull expresses disbelief that so many people attacked Hawke, to which Varric mostly admits he made it up.

Added: 676

Changed: 139

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Fun fact: [[http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6511895/3#6639653 Word of God]] says Anders is just a nickname because he was at least born in the Anderfels. It makes sense that when fleeing from the Templars, he would go by a pseudonym. It's also entirely possible that he no longer remembers his real name.

to:

* Fun fact: [[http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6511895/3#6639653 Word of God]] says When the Bioware social forums still existed, it was stated that Anders is just a nickname because he was at least born in the Anderfels. It makes sense that when fleeing from the Templars, he would go by a pseudonym. It's also entirely possible that he no longer remembers his real name.
** The ''World of Thedas'' books clarify this farther - Anders was born in Ferelden, but his ''father'' was from the Anderfels. When his magic manifested and he was taken to the Circle, he refused to give them a name, so they started calling him "Anders" because it was one of the only things they knew about him (since his parents cast him out and, presumably, did not interact with the Templars who took him). He eventually started responding to it. It's a different form of FridgeBrilliance, because remembering his days as the happy and popular boy who was loved by his parents probably just causes him pain, so he takes a ThatManIsDead approach and discards his old
name.



* There being no option of becoming an [[MagicKnight Arcane Warrior]] actually makes a lot of sense: it was a specialisation was taught to the Warden by a spirit trapped inside of a gem; it was literally the ''last'' keeper of a long-forgotten Elven school of magic, which it passed onto the Warden before its death. No mages in Kirkwall would know of this form of magic, and with the heavy Templar presence, they would not be in a position to gain access anyway. Even after a Mage Hawke becomes so well known that they ''could'' have gotten access to any possible instructions, most mages are implied to have distinctive fighting styles related to their specific skills and comfort level, so Hawke would likely not have seen the need to learn it.
** Double-points for all the specializations having some way for Hawke to pick them up in the first couple acts. Force Magic seems to be a Kirkwall thing, so they could have gotten books stolen from the Gallows to learn it. Spirit Healing is Anders' shtick, and Merrill knows Blood Magic. There's enough Templars around that Hawke could probably pick up the basics, they could have learned how to be a berserker from surfacer dwarves or muscle on the Deep Roads expedition, to be an assassin from some gang, and to be a Reaver, you have to consume the blood of a dragon - dragons which are faced in the first act in the Bone Pit. Isabela is the Duelist trainer in ''Origins'', and the Shadow manual was available for purchase in ''Awakening'', so presumably Hawke could get their hands on a copy in a port city like Kirkwall.

to:

* There being no option of becoming an [[MagicKnight Arcane Warrior]] actually makes a lot of sense: it was a specialisation was taught to the Warden by a spirit trapped inside of a gem; it gem. Said spirit was literally the ''last'' keeper of a long-forgotten Elven school of magic, which it passed onto the Warden before its death. No mages in Kirkwall would know of this form of magic, and with the heavy Templar presence, they would not be in a position to gain access anyway. Even after a Mage Hawke becomes so well known that they ''could'' have gotten access to any possible instructions, most mages are implied to have distinctive fighting styles related to their specific skills and comfort level, so Hawke would likely not have seen the need to learn it.
** Double-points for all the specializations having some way for Hawke to pick them up in the first couple acts. Force Magic seems to be a Kirkwall thing, so they could have gotten books stolen from the Gallows to learn it. Spirit Healing is Anders' shtick, and Merrill knows Blood Magic. There's enough Templars around that Hawke could probably pick up the basics, they could have learned how to be a berserker from surfacer surface dwarves or muscle on the Deep Roads expedition, to be an assassin from some gang, and to be a Reaver, you have to consume the blood of a dragon - dragons which are faced in the first act in the Bone Pit. Isabela is the Duelist trainer in ''Origins'', and the Shadow manual was available for purchase in ''Awakening'', so presumably Hawke could get their hands on a copy in a port city like Kirkwall.



* Even if the Dalish origin was not chosen in ''Origins'', the Eluvian is smashed before the clan moves on resulting in Merrill retrieving a shard of the mirror. For the next seven years up until the death of the Keeper, Merrill has a pretty crappy life. She suffered seven years of bad luck from breaking the mirror!

to:

* Even if the Dalish origin was not chosen in ''Origins'', the Eluvian is smashed before the clan moves on on, resulting in Merrill retrieving a shard of the mirror. For the next seven years up until the death of the Keeper, Merrill has a pretty crappy life. She suffered seven years of bad luck from breaking the mirror!



** The other angle is that Merrill (most of the time) doesn't use blood magic to hurt anyone; she initially turned to it to fuel her magic enough to cleanse the shard of the Eluvian. Even though she's a BlackMagicianGirl, she's got a total of two spells that are even vaguely blood magic-related (only one of which involves hurting someone else). She sees it as a tool, not a weapon. She knows she's taking a risk by dealing with demons, and thus only goes to the demon twice - once before the game's events to learn blood magic in the first place, and once when she goes to get more information ([[spoiler:by which point it's already possessed Marethari.]])

to:

** The other angle is that Merrill (most of the time) doesn't use blood magic to hurt anyone; she initially turned to it to fuel her magic enough to cleanse the shard of the Eluvian. Even though she's a BlackMagicianGirl, she's got a total of two spells that are even vaguely blood magic-related (only one of which involves hurting someone else). She sees it as a tool, not a weapon. She knows she's taking a risk by dealing with demons, and thus only goes to the demon twice - once before the game's events to learn blood magic in the first place, and once when she goes to get more information ([[spoiler:by which point it's already possessed Marethari.]])Marethari]]).



** There's also the fact that Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not by the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, they spent over a year confronting everything (from darkspawn to demons), meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they've seen things far weirder]] and are conditioned to simply kill Justice if he proves dangerous (like all the spirits they met before). Third, the Warden can also have spent said year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter, and know that the world is far greyer than the black-and-white view of the Chantry. In contrast, Anders shares the same view about spirits with the Chantry.

to:

** There's also the fact that Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not by the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) Dwarves) are not Andrastians, Andrastian, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, they spent over a year confronting everything (from darkspawn to demons), meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they've seen things far weirder]] and are conditioned to simply kill Justice if he proves dangerous (like all the spirits they met before). Third, the Warden can also have spent said year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter, and know that the world is far greyer than the black-and-white view of the Chantry. In contrast, Anders shares the same view about spirits with the Chantry.



** Merrill changes from a Dalish armor to a fancy dress fit for any human noblewoman, [[DoesNotLikeShoes minus the shoes]]. She's no longer an outcast among both the Dalish and the city elves; she's part of Hawke's family. Also, said dress probably serves as another warning sign for the Templars to leave that particular mage alone (in addition to her possibly moving in to Hawke's mansion). It may also serve as a warning to Kirkwall's high society: a way to say "''This elf is '''not''' a servant: treat her as such at your own peril.''"
** Anders ''does not'' change his clothes in Act 2. [[EvilCostumeSwitch When he does]] after "Justice" in Act 3, you realize that Sebastian was right: his cause is more important to him than Hawke. [[note]]Sebastian also doesn't change his outfit, but that's because his relationship with Hawke is chaste, so they don't even have a "first night together."[[/note]]

to:

** Merrill changes from a Dalish armor to a fancy dress fit for any human noblewoman, [[DoesNotLikeShoes minus the shoes]]. She's no longer an outcast among both the Dalish and the city elves; she's part of Hawke's family. Also, said dress probably serves as another warning sign for the Templars to leave that particular mage alone (in addition to her possibly moving in to Hawke's mansion). It may also serve as a warning to Kirkwall's high society: society, a way to say "''This elf is '''not''' a servant: treat her as such at your own peril.''"
** Anders ''does not'' change his clothes in Act 2. [[EvilCostumeSwitch When he does]] after "Justice" in Act 3, you realize that Sebastian was right: his cause is more important to him than Hawke. [[note]]Sebastian also doesn't change his outfit, but that's because his relationship with Hawke is chaste, so they don't even have a "first night together."[[/note]]

Changed: 76

Removed: 192

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not confirmed


* How did the gang of Guardsman Pretenders get such perfect replicas of the Kirkwall Guard uniforms, and why were they in Hightown? It's because they are working for the former captain, Jeven.



** There's also the fact that Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, they spent over a year confronting everything (from darkspawn to demons), meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they've seen things far weirder]] and are conditioned to simply kill Justice if he proves dangerous (like all the spirits they met before). Third, the Warden can also have spent said year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter, and know that the world is far greyer than the black-and-white view of the Chantry.

to:

** There's also the fact that Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not by the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, they spent over a year confronting everything (from darkspawn to demons), meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they've seen things far weirder]] and are conditioned to simply kill Justice if he proves dangerous (like all the spirits they met before). Third, the Warden can also have spent said year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter, and know that the world is far greyer than the black-and-white view of the Chantry. In contrast, Anders shares the same view about spirits with the Chantry.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Seems odd that nothing at all happens during the tree year {{Time Skip}}s, then you're suddenly inundated with places to go, things to do, items to fetch, and people to talk to (and kill). Well, maybe a lot of that actually happened in the downtime, but Varric's tying it into the major happenings to keep things interesting and the narrative flowing. Avoiding "and over the next two weeks, Hawke collected old Qunari Swords, then it was quiet for a month or so, then there was a week preparing for the vacation to Orlais, and let me tell you, good thing s/he came back from that when s/he did."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Those Who Sleep'' reveals that [[spoiler:Isabela's mother was a Viddithari (a convert to the Qun) who sold her to her abusive husband for refusing to convert.]] This puts a sobering new light on [[spoiler:Isabela's furious and horrified reaction if Hawke decides to let the Arishok take her at the end of Act 2.]]

to:

* ''Those Who Sleep'' reveals that [[spoiler:Isabela's mother was a Viddithari Viddathari (a convert to the Qun) who sold her to her abusive husband for refusing to convert.]] This puts a sobering new light on [[spoiler:Isabela's furious and horrified reaction if Hawke decides to let the Arishok take her at the end of Act 2.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Heck, female Hawke's default name is ''Marian''. The devs may have thrown that in for a bit of LampshadeHanging.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Hawke is a MagneticHero who champions the downtrodden people of Kirkwall. Among their closest associates are a narrator-bard (Varric), a remarkably large and strong person (Aveline), and a priest (Sebastian). And their legend has far outstripped them, growing larger than life and changing details with every retelling. Hawke is the ''Dragon Age'' equivalent of Myth/RobinHood and the companions are the Merry Men!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In ''Origins'' the love scenes played out in snippets, whereas here Hawke and their love interest make out before just the aftermath is shown. Either Varric lacks the details, is respecting Hawke and their lover's privacy by not going into detail on how they spent their night, or just finds the narrative equivalent of a "fade to black" more tasteful.

to:

** In ''Origins'' ''Origins'', the love scenes played out in snippets, whereas here snippets. Whereas here, Hawke and their love interest make out before just the aftermath is shown. Either Varric lacks the details, is respecting Hawke and their lover's privacy by not going into detail on how they spent their night, or just finds the narrative equivalent of a "fade to black" more tasteful.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** This could also indicate the difference in relationship between the companions and the protagonist. In ''Origins'', the Warden was essentially the boss of their group. But here, the companions are friends or associates of Hawke's. You might tell the people following you what they need to wear, but you don't dictate the wardrobes of your companions/associates.

to:

*** This could also indicate the difference in relationship between the companions and the protagonist. In ''Origins'', ''[[VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins Origins]]'', the Warden was essentially the boss of their group. But here, the companions are friends or associates of Hawke's. You might tell the people following you what they need to wear, but you don't dictate the wardrobes of your companions/associates.



** In ''[[VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins Origins]]'' the love scenes played out in snippets, whereas here Hawke and their love interest make out before just the aftermath is shown. Either Varric lacks the details, is respecting Hawke and their lover's privacy by not going into detail on how they spent their night, or just finds the narrative equivalent of a "fade to black" more tasteful.

to:

** In ''[[VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins Origins]]'' ''Origins'' the love scenes played out in snippets, whereas here Hawke and their love interest make out before just the aftermath is shown. Either Varric lacks the details, is respecting Hawke and their lover's privacy by not going into detail on how they spent their night, or just finds the narrative equivalent of a "fade to black" more tasteful.

Changed: 150

Removed: 86

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Unlike the [[VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins first game]], where the love scenes play out in snippets, here Hawke and their love interest make out before just the aftermath is shown. Either Varric is respecting Hawke and their lover's privacy by not going into detail on how they spent their night, or he doesn't actually have the details anyway.
*** That or he just finds the narrative equivalent of a "fade to black" more tasteful.

to:

** Unlike the [[VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins first game]], where In ''[[VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins Origins]]'' the love scenes play played out in snippets, whereas here Hawke and their love interest make out before just the aftermath is shown. Either Varric lacks the details, is respecting Hawke and their lover's privacy by not going into detail on how they spent their night, or he doesn't actually have the details anyway.
*** That or he
just finds the narrative equivalent of a "fade to black" more tasteful.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There's also the fact that Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, they spent over a year confronting everything (from darkspawn to demons), meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they've seen things far weirder]] and are conditioned to simply kill Justice if he proves dangerous (like all the spirits they met before). Third, the Warden can also have spent said year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter, and know that the world is far grey than the black-and-white view of the Chantry.

to:

** There's also the fact that Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, they spent over a year confronting everything (from darkspawn to demons), meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they've seen things far weirder]] and are conditioned to simply kill Justice if he proves dangerous (like all the spirits they met before). Third, the Warden can also have spent said year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter, and know that the world is far grey greyer than the black-and-white view of the Chantry.



** It is also essentially a SelfFulfillingProphecy which fits right into a trend, with various other prejudices playing out the same way. The actual dangers of mages and prevalence are often direct results of many people fearing them, and those fears drive people in power to lock them up, dehumanize them and mistreat them, instead of properly teaching them. This makes them out to be the ticking bombs everyone says they are and then forces them into positions where they have no choice ''but'' to turn to immoral measures out of pure desperation. The Arishok came to Kirkwall with absolutely no interest in conversion or conquest until fanatics, pressure, and the knowledge that he can never return no matter what because of the relic, drove him to launch a suicide attack on Kirkwall and turn him into what he was believed to be. There is a definite theme here with how outside forces whose prejudices and fears essentially forced them to prove their beliefs as to be correct, and then everybody forgets how they were originally (or just don't bother to know the true story).

to:

** It is also essentially a SelfFulfillingProphecy which fits right into a trend, with various other prejudices playing out the same way. The actual dangers of mages and prevalence are often direct results of many people fearing them, and those fears drive people in power to lock them up, dehumanize them and mistreat them, instead of properly teaching them. This makes them out to be the ticking bombs everyone says they are and then forces them into positions where they have no choice ''but'' to turn to immoral measures out of pure desperation. The Arishok came to Kirkwall with absolutely no interest in conversion or conquest until fanatics, pressure, and the knowledge that he can never return no matter what because of the relic, relic drove him to launch a suicide attack on Kirkwall and turn him into what he was believed to be. There is a definite theme here with how outside forces whose prejudices and fears essentially forced them to prove their beliefs as to be correct, and then everybody forgets how they were originally (or just don't bother to know the true story).

Added: 916

Changed: 34

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Janeka, a Grey Warden met during ''Legacy'', want to use Corypheus against the Blights, claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threat to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's the same logic the Architect used in ''Awakening'' to the Warden regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will come to the same conclusion (note: ''Inquisition'' makes clear that's not the case. ''At all''.) Bonus point if Anders is in the party, he quickly realize where Janeka's idea cames from.

to:

* Janeka, a Grey Warden met during ''Legacy'', want to use Corypheus against the Blights, claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threat to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's the same logic the Architect used in ''Awakening'' to the Warden regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will come to the same conclusion (note: ''Inquisition'' makes clear that's not the case. ''At all''.) Bonus point if Anders is in the party, he quickly realizes where Janeka got the idea.
* A minor one, but rather clever. As noted on the character pages, Hawke's brother and sister clearly take after their mother's side of the family, with Bethany resembling Leandra and Carver resembling their uncle Gamlen in terms of facial bone structure. Meanwhile, it's stated that Hawke heavily takes after their father Malcolm. Then you
realize where Janeka's - the twins ''had'' to take after the Amells from a design perspective. We never actually see Malcolm anywhere in the franchise; we hear his voice in ''Legacy'', but all that's shown of him is a pair of glowing eyes. Since Hawke's appearance is customized by the player, Malcolm has to remain hidden from view in order to be in keeping with the idea cames from.that Hawke looks like their father; so the twins, whose appearances are preset, have to look like the Amell bloodline. It's especially interesting because the resemblance is subtle, but strong enough to be noticeable.



* During the final battle, Hawke's LI or sibling can be stabbed by Meredith. This takes on a new level when we find out in ''Inquisition'' that [[spoiler:red lyrium, the stuff of which Meredith's broadsword is made, is Blight-infected, meaning it's possible they could be infected with the Taint. Anders would probably be okay since he is already infected from the Joining, but what if the taint gets into Fenris's tattoos? The same applies to ''anyone'' that came into contact with the sword, but it's especially worrying in the former case, because of the prolonged contact and nature of the injury.)]]

to:

* During the final battle, Hawke's LI or sibling can be stabbed by Meredith. This takes on a new level when we find out in ''Inquisition'' that [[spoiler:red lyrium, the stuff of which Meredith's broadsword is made, is Blight-infected, meaning it's possible they could be infected with the Taint. Anders would probably be okay since he is already infected from the Joining, but what if the taint gets into Fenris's tattoos? The same applies to ''anyone'' that came into contact with the sword, but it's especially worrying in the former latter's case, because of the prolonged contact and nature of the injury.)]]



* ''Those Who Sleep'' reveals that [[spoiler:Isabela's mother was a Viddathari (a convert to the Qun) who sold her to her abusive husband for refusing to convert.]] This puts a sobering new light on [[spoiler:Isabela's furious and horrified reaction if Hawke decides to let the Arishok take her at the end of Act 2.]]

to:

* ''Those Who Sleep'' reveals that [[spoiler:Isabela's mother was a Viddathari Viddithari (a convert to the Qun) who sold her to her abusive husband for refusing to convert.]] This puts a sobering new light on [[spoiler:Isabela's furious and horrified reaction if Hawke decides to let the Arishok take her at the end of Act 2.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** That or he just finds the narrative equivalent of a "fade to black" more tasteful.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* If may seem odd that Anders' or Isabela's real name is not revealed if Hawke romances either, but in said event, Hawke likely refused to share the details with Varric out of privacy.

to:

* If may seem odd that Anders' or Isabela's real name is not revealed if Hawke romances either, but in said event, Hawke likely refused to share the details with Varric out of privacy. Alternatively, Hawke didn't ask or Varric isn't sharing because [[ThatManIsDead they recognize that Anders and Isabela aren't those people anymore.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Janeka, a Grey Warden met during ''Legacy'', want to use Corypheus against the Blights, claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threat to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's the same logic the Architect used in ''Awakening'' to the Warden regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will come to the same conclusion (note: ''Inquisition'' makes clear that's not the case. ''At all''.) Bonus point if Anders is in the party, he quickly realize from where Janeka's idea cames from.

to:

* Janeka, a Grey Warden met during ''Legacy'', want to use Corypheus against the Blights, claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threat to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's the same logic the Architect used in ''Awakening'' to the Warden regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will come to the same conclusion (note: ''Inquisition'' makes clear that's not the case. ''At all''.) Bonus point if Anders is in the party, he quickly realize from where Janeka's idea cames from.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Janeka, a Grey Warden met during ''Legacy'', want to use Corypheus against the Blights, claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threat to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's the same logic the Architect used in ''Awakening'' to the Warden regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will come to the same conclusion (note: ''Inquisition'' makes clear that's not the case. ''At all''.)

to:

* Janeka, a Grey Warden met during ''Legacy'', want to use Corypheus against the Blights, claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threat to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's the same logic the Architect used in ''Awakening'' to the Warden regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will come to the same conclusion (note: ''Inquisition'' makes clear that's not the case. ''At all''.)) Bonus point if Anders is in the party, he quickly realize from where Janeka's idea cames from.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The Grey Warden Janeka (from Legacy) want to use Corypheus against the Blights claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threath to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's basically what The Architect explain to The Warden in Awakening regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will follow the same logic as The Architect (note: Inquisition make clear that's not the case. ''At all''.)

to:

* The Janeka, a Grey Warden Janeka (from Legacy) met during ''Legacy'', want to use Corypheus against the Blights Blights, claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threath threat to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's basically what The the same logic the Architect explain used in ''Awakening'' to The the Warden in Awakening regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will follow come to the same logic as The Architect conclusion (note: Inquisition make ''Inquisition'' makes clear that's not the case. ''At all''.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The Grey Warden Janeka (from Legacy) want to use Corypheus agains't the Blights claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threath to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's basically what The Architect explain to The Warden in Awakening regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will follow the same logic as The Architect (note: Inquisition make clear that's not the case. ''At all''.)

to:

* The Grey Warden Janeka (from Legacy) want to use Corypheus agains't against the Blights claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threath to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's basically what The Architect explain to The Warden in Awakening regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will follow the same logic as The Architect (note: Inquisition make clear that's not the case. ''At all''.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* The Grey Warden Janeka (from Legacy) want to use Corypheus agains't the Blights claiming that he will believe that a Blight is a threath to darkspawn and will work to end it. Sound familiar? It's basically what The Architect explain to The Warden in Awakening regarding his experiments with the Taint. It's also a Fridge Horror when you realize that Janeka is assuming that Corypheus will follow the same logic as The Architect (note: Inquisition make clear that's not the case. ''At all''.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
You never found Zevran until Act 3.


** Double-points for all the specializations having some way for Hawke to pick them up in the first couple acts. Force Magic seems to be a Kirkwall thing, so they could have gotten books stolen from the Gallows to learn it. Spirit Healing is Anders' shtick, and Merrill knows Blood Magic. There's enough Templars around that Hawke could probably pick up the basics, they could have learned how to be a berserker from surfacer dwarves or muscle on the Deep Roads expedition, and to be a Reaver, you have to consume the blood of a dragon - dragons which are faced in the first act in the Bone Pit. Zevran has the Assassin specialization, Isabela is the Duelist trainer in ''Origins'', and the Shadow manual was available for purchase in ''Awakening'', so presumably Hawke could get their hands on a copy in a port city like Kirkwall.

to:

** Double-points for all the specializations having some way for Hawke to pick them up in the first couple acts. Force Magic seems to be a Kirkwall thing, so they could have gotten books stolen from the Gallows to learn it. Spirit Healing is Anders' shtick, and Merrill knows Blood Magic. There's enough Templars around that Hawke could probably pick up the basics, they could have learned how to be a berserker from surfacer dwarves or muscle on the Deep Roads expedition, to be an assassin from some gang, and to be a Reaver, you have to consume the blood of a dragon - dragons which are faced in the first act in the Bone Pit. Zevran has the Assassin specialization, Isabela is the Duelist trainer in ''Origins'', and the Shadow manual was available for purchase in ''Awakening'', so presumably Hawke could get their hands on a copy in a port city like Kirkwall.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There's also the fact that Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, they spent over a year confronting everything (from darkspawn to demons), meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they've seen things far weirder]] and are conditioned to simply kill Justice if he proves dangerous (like all the spirits they met before). Third, the Warden can also have spent said year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter.

to:

** There's also the fact that Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, they spent over a year confronting everything (from darkspawn to demons), meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they've seen things far weirder]] and are conditioned to simply kill Justice if he proves dangerous (like all the spirits they met before). Third, the Warden can also have spent said year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter.matter, and know that the world is far grey than the black-and-white view of the Chantry.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There's also the fact of why Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, he spent over a year confronting everything, from darkspawn to demons, meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they had seen things far more weird than that]], so if Justice proves dangerous, the Warden can simply kill him (like all the spirits they meet before). Third, the Warden can also have spent such year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter.

to:

** There's also the fact of why that Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not the Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden ''is'' Andrastian, he they spent over a year confronting everything, from everything (from darkspawn to demons, demons), meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they had they've seen things far more weird than that]], so if Justice proves dangerous, the Warden can weirder]] and are conditioned to simply kill him Justice if he proves dangerous (like all the spirits they meet met before). Third, the Warden can also have spent such said year with Wynne (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination), and also met the Great Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans). When the Warden met Justice, s/he already had a relatively wide perspective about the matter.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There's also the fact of why Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not by the Warden's. There's many reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden is Andrastian, he spend over a year confronting everything, from darkspawn to demons, meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they had seen things far more weird than that]] and that, if Justice proves dangerous, the Warden can simply kill him, like all the spirits they meet before. Third, the Warden also spend such year with Wynne who is, by Chantry's definition, an abomination, and also meet the Great Oak, who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans. When the Warden meet Justice, s/he already had a more wide perspective about the matter than others.

to:

** There's also the fact of why Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not by the Warden's. There's many Warden's, for several reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden is ''is'' Andrastian, he spend spent over a year confronting everything, from darkspawn to demons, meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they had seen things far more weird than that]] and that, that]], so if Justice proves dangerous, the Warden can simply kill him, like him (like all the spirits they meet before. before). Third, the Warden can also spend have spent such year with Wynne who (who is, by the Chantry's definition, an abomination, abomination), and also meet met the Great Oak, who Oak (who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans. sylvans). When the Warden meet met Justice, s/he already had a more relatively wide perspective about the matter than others.matter.



* How and where did Anders learn to make explosives, considering that gunpowder seems not to have been invented in Thedas's human society, and the supposedly stolen Qunari formula turned out to be fake? Recall that Anders was at Vigil's Keep with Dworkin the Mad (the dwarf who loved to blow stuff up), and may have learned picked up a few tricks from him. He also likely met the merchant Armaas, who had left the Qun. Who's to say he didn't tell Anders how to make the powder?

to:

* How and where did Anders learn to make explosives, considering that gunpowder seems not to have been invented in Thedas's human society, and the supposedly stolen Qunari formula turned out to be fake? Recall that Anders was at Vigil's Keep with Dworkin the Mad (the dwarf who loved to blow stuff up), and may have learned picked up a few tricks from him. He also likely met the merchant Armaas, who had left the Qun. Who's to say he didn't tell Anders how to make the powder?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There's also the fact of why Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not by the Warden's. There's many reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden is Andrastian, he spend over a year confronting everything, from darkspawn to demons, meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they had seen things far more weird than that]] and that, if Justice proves dangerous, the Warden can simply kill him, like all the spirits they meet before. Third, the Warden also spend such year with Wynne who is, by Chantry's definition, an abomination, and also meet the Great Oak, who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans. When the Warden meet Justice, they already had a more wide perspective about the matter than others.

to:

** There's also the fact of why Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not by the Warden's. There's many reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden is Andrastian, he spend over a year confronting everything, from darkspawn to demons, meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they had seen things far more weird than that]] and that, if Justice proves dangerous, the Warden can simply kill him, like all the spirits they meet before. Third, the Warden also spend such year with Wynne who is, by Chantry's definition, an abomination, and also meet the Great Oak, who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans. When the Warden meet Justice, they s/he already had a more wide perspective about the matter than others.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There's also the fact of why Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not by the Warden's. There's many reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden is Andrastian, he spend over a year confronting everything, from darkspawn to demons, meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they had seen things far more weird than that]]

to:

** There's also the fact of why Justice was corrupted by Anders' influence and not by the Warden's. There's many reasons: first, half of the Warden's origins (the Dalish and both Dwarven's) are not Andrastians, meaning that they have different views about the matter. Second, even if the Warden is Andrastian, he spend over a year confronting everything, from darkspawn to demons, meaning that talking with a spirit isn't really a big deal because [[SeenItAll they had seen things far more weird than that]]that]] and that, if Justice proves dangerous, the Warden can simply kill him, like all the spirits they meet before. Third, the Warden also spend such year with Wynne who is, by Chantry's definition, an abomination, and also meet the Great Oak, who is benign and harmless compared with the rest of the sylvans. When the Warden meet Justice, they already had a more wide perspective about the matter than others.

Top