History FranchiseOriginalSin / Fallout

** The number of quests that amounted to "go there, kill those" or "go there, find this, kill those along the way" were generally lambasted, but every game has had its fair share of them. The difference was that the majority of prior quests tended to let the player [[CombatStealthDiplomacy resolve them in a variety of ways,]] while most quests in ''4'' lacked that flexibility. The addition of "radiant quests" that were ''universally'' the above two didn't help at all.

** Every game has featured some degree of retconning, continuity errors, or problematic lore. Even the first game has some funky continuity in places (deathclaws are treated as borderline cryptids in the Hub but are common knowledge in the Boneyard). Later games, though, tended to retcon more important things in dumber ways and for dumber reasons--for instance, ''4'' accidentally introduced that Jet is a pre-war invention (making the impact of an entire questline and main character of ''2'' null and void), that ghouls don't need food or water (rendering the entire question of the Necropolis in ''1'' pointless), and that Enclave power armor is pre-war (meaning the Enclave apparently just sat on their butts for over a century). This relates to the above, as some of the silliest retcons were the result of attempts to add in "iconic" factions. ''76'''s retcon that the Brotherhood somehow managed to fully establish their organization and expand from California to West Virginia in ''less than five years'', with the only reason given being a HandWave of them having a satellite, was just the point where even fans who hadn't played the old games realized things couldn't add up.

** When ''Fallout 3'' came out, one of the more common gripes from old-school fans was the [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks apparent lack of advancement of the setting]] - despite the change from the West Coast to the East Coast and the timeline jumping forward by several decades, plenty of things from the old games are present that really shouldn't be there (such as caps, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and the Enclave), often having undergone {{Flanderization}} in the process, while the Capital Wasteland itself feels far less developed in terms of civilization than the West Coast. This was largely tamped down, though, because ''3'' was meant to be a reintroduction to the series, and the reaction would likely have been even worse if the first new ''Fallout'' game in decades didn't feel post-apocalyptic and lacked any iconic elements. However, ''4'' was seen as having largely doubled down on these elements to the point of introducing multiple {{Series Continuity Error}}s (most infamously, managing to accidentally retcon entire subplots of ''Fallout 1'' and ''2'' out of existence), and the fanbase proved significantly less forgiving. It didn't help that ''New Vegas'' had avoided most of those same problems in the interim, nor that most of Bethesda's new additions to the series lore got at best a lukewarm reception or were seen as largely derivative. When ''76'' announced that ''another'' game would somehow crowbar in the Enclave, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and caps, before most of those things should even exist, much less have expanded to West Virginia, the jokes about how Bethesda can't make anything new became a lot less niche.
* One of the more common critiques of ''VideoGame/Fallout3''[='=]s story is that you have no option to join the Enclave and are effectively {{railroad|ing}}ed into wiping them out. This was true in ''VideoGame/Fallout2'' as well, but the Enclave in ''2'' are established as more or less a death cult worshiping the old United States, and they regard the player character as a degenerate who must be exterminated for the good of humanity. Asking to join them would effectively be a PressXToDie button. By contrast, the Enclave in ''3'' are nowhere near as evil, have nowhere near as much reason to hate the PC, and seem to just be another imperialist power among many in the wasteland. They do have a plan that approaches the genocidal nature of the ones in ''2'', but not everyone is on board with it, and you can stop it halfway through the game and they'll keep going. Indeed, bafflingly, you can ''help'' the most unreasonable factions of the Enclave accomplish that plan, ''which will kill you'', but you can't join the more reasonable factions that only want to control the water supply, making it an even more baffling place to draw the line.

** The protagonist's rather heavy backstory and motivation to rescue their son was widely criticized, with people noting that it constrained roleplay heavily and [[PlotTumor consumed the plot]]. But providing the protagonist with some level of backstory and an overarching goal they set out to achieve was the case in every prior ''Fallout''. The difference was that in the prior games, the level of backstory had essentially been "you are a vault dweller/tribe member/courier", and there was enough leeway in dialogue to have your character just not really care about that goal. ''Fallout 4'', on the other hand, more decisively defines your character's background and their feelings on their missing baby, which disappointed anyone who wanted to roleplay as something besides a concerned parent. Making things even more problematic was the very unfocused sandbox structure of ''4'' -- why would the protagonist speak so urgently of finding their child, and then spend the next month building settlements or hunting super mutants?

* ''VideoGame/Fallout2'' is generally very well-loved, but if there's one ''very'' vocal complaint about it, it's [[DenserAndWackier the excess of pop culture references and humor]]. The first game had its fair share of this, like being able to randomly encounter the [[Series/DoctorWho TARDIS]] or random troopers quoting movies on occasion, but these were more {{Easter Egg}}s than anything, and they were used fairly sparingly or still made some sense in context. In the second game, they show up a lot more and are much easier to find, which often damages the game's dramatic tone and story -- after all, it's a little hard to take the plight of a slave seriously when they're blatantly quoting ''Film/BackToTheFuture''. It's not for no reason that ''New Vegas'' essentially provided the option to turn the silly stuff off.

*** ''New Vegas'' was also extremely buggy when it was released. However Obsidian was very quick to role out patches, where Bethesda just wasn't.

** When ''Fallout 3'' came out, one of the more common gripes from old-school fans was the [[ItsTheSameSoItSucks apparent lack of advancement of the setting]] - despite the change from the West Coast to the East Coast and the timeline jumping forward by several decades, plenty of things from the old games are present that really shouldn't be there (such as caps, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and the Enclave), often having undergone {{Flanderization}} in the process, while the Capital Wasteland itself feels far less developed in terms of civilization than the West Coast. This was largely tamped down, though, because ''3'' was meant to be a reintroduction to the series, and the reaction would likely have been even worse if the first new ''Fallout'' game in decades didn't feel post-apocalyptic and lacked any iconic elements. However, ''4'' was seen as having largely doubled down on these elements to the point of introducing multiple {{Series Continuity Error}}s (most infamously, managing to accidentally retcon entire subplots of ''Fallout 1'' and ''2'' out of existence), and the fanbase proved significantly less forgiving. It didn't help that ''New Vegas'' had avoided most of those same problems in the interim, nor that most of Bethesda's new additions to the series lore got at best a lukewarm reception or were seen as largely derivative. When ''76'' announced that ''another'' game would somehow crowbar in the Enclave, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and caps, before most of those things should even exist, much less have expanded to West Virginia, the jokes about how Bethesda can't make anything new became a lot less niche.

* The ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'' series has always tried to give players multiple ways to solve a quest, usually breaking the options down in line with the KarmaMeter, and has tended to feature villains that where more often than not a WellIntentionedExtremist - The Master wanting to forcibly evolve humans into Super Mutants is the most clear-cut example - so it's unsurprising that the main quests of each game tended to include at least one option to join or help the BigBad achieve their goals. This wasn't taken particularly seriously in the earlier games; joining with The Master in ''Fallout'' effectively ended the game there in a NonStandardGameOver, whilst as late as ''3'' the only real options to work with the BigBad where either to make the majority of the water in the region poisonous to the player or to blow up the Pentagon completely unprovoked - and all of these decisions only came at the ends of their respective main quests. So the idea of "joining up with the other side" was something of an UnbuiltTrope that persisted into the later ''Fallout'' games and is only there where it started to cause trouble. ''New Vegas'' managed to avoid this almost by accident, as large sections of Legion-friendly content where cut from the final product, leaving the Legion as a fairly two-dimensional villain that was satisfying to oppose. ''4'' however got hit hard by this problem as the multiple endings to the main quest effectively prevented any of the factions from truly becoming the BigBad and doing anything worthy of being wiped out to a man. Worse, the player was effectively obligated to choose which faction(s) where destroyed by actively betraying and working against one of them - putting the "firing of the first shot" as it where firmly in the player's hands.

* The ''VideoGame/((Fallout))'' series has always tried to give players multiple ways to solve a quest, usually breaking the options down in line with the KarmaMeter, and has tended to feature villains that where more often than not a WellIntentionedExtremist - The Master wanting to forcibly evolve humans into Super Mutants is the most clear-cut example - so it's unsurprising that the main quests of each game tended to include at least one option to join or help the BigBad achieve their goals. This wasn't taken particularly seriously in the earlier games; joining with The Master in ''Fallout'' effectively ended the game there in a NonStandardGameOver, whilst as late as ''3'' the only real options to work with the BigBad where either to make the majority of the water in the region poisonous to the player or to blow up the Pentagon completely unprovoked - and all of these decisions only came at the ends of their respective main quests. So the idea of "joining up with the other side" was something of an UnbuiltTrope that persisted into the later ''Fallout'' games and is only there where it started to cause trouble. ''New Vegas'' managed to avoid this almost by accident, as large sections of Legion-friendly content where cut from the final product, leaving the Legion as a fairly two-dimensional villain that was satisfying to oppose. ''4'' however got hit hard by this problem as the multiple endings to the main quest effectively prevented any of the factions from truly becoming the BigBad and doing anything worthy of being wiped out to a man. Worse, the player was effectively obligated to choose which faction(s) where destroyed by actively betraying and working against one of them - putting the "firing of the first shot" as it where firmly in the player's hands.

* The ''VideoGame/Fallout'' series has always tried to give players multiple ways to solve a quest, usually breaking the options down in line with the KarmaMeter, and has tended to feature villains that where more often than not a WellIntentionedExtremist - The Master wanting to forcibly evolve humans into Super Mutants is the most clear-cut example - so it's unsurprising that the main quests of each game tended to include at least one option to join or help the BigBad achieve their goals. This wasn't taken particularly seriously in the earlier games; joining with The Master in ''Fallout'' effectively ended the game there in a NonStandardGameOver, whilst as late as ''3'' the only real options to work with the BigBad where either to make the majority of the water in the region poisonous to the player or to blow up the Pentagon completely unprovoked - and all of these decisions only came at the ends of their respective main quests. So the idea of "joining up with the other side" was something of an UnbuiltTrope that persisted into the later ''Fallout'' games and is only there where it started to cause trouble. ''New Vegas'' managed to avoid this almost by accident, as large sections of Legion-friendly content where cut from the final product, leaving the Legion as a fairly two-dimensional villain that was satisfying to oppose. ''4'' however got hit hard by this problem as the multiple endings to the main quest effectively prevented any of the factions from truly becoming the BigBad and doing anything worthy of being wiped out to a man. Worse, the player was effectively obligated to choose which faction(s) where destroyed by actively betraying and working against one of them - putting the "firing of the first shot" as it where firmly in the player's hands.

* The ''Franchise/Fallout'' series has always tried to give players multiple ways to solve a quest, usually breaking the options down in line with the KarmaMeter, and has tended to feature villains that where more often than not a WellIntentionedExtremist - The Master wanting to forcibly evolve humans into Super Mutants is the most clear-cut example - so it's unsurprising that the main quests of each game tended to include at least one option to join or help the BigBad achieve their goals. This wasn't taken particularly seriously in the earlier games; joining with The Master in ''Fallout'' effectively ended the game there in a NonStandardGameOver, whilst as late as ''3'' the only real options to work with the BigBad where either to make the majority of the water in the region poisonous to the player or to blow up the Pentagon completely unprovoked - and all of these decisions only came at the ends of their respective main quests. So the idea of "joining up with the other side" was something of an UnbuiltTrope that persisted into the later ''Fallout'' games and is only there where it started to cause trouble. ''New Vegas'' managed to avoid this almost by accident, as large sections of Legion-friendly content where cut from the final product, leaving the Legion as a fairly two-dimensional villain that was satisfying to oppose. ''4'' however got hit hard by this problem as the multiple endings to the main quest effectively prevented any of the factions from truly becoming the BigBad and doing anything worthy of being wiped out to a man.

** ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' significantly retooled the gameplay from an isometric turn-based game to a first-person one with a noticeably heavier focus on action. This did get a fair amount of TheyChangedItNowItSucks complaints, but it was broadly accepted, because the game, simply put, was still an RPG with many potential builds or ways to characterize yourself, albeit one that now drew more from Bethesda's ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' and other contemporary action [=RPGs=]. ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' fleshed out the roleplay aspects even further to prove that there was nothing really wrong with the engine (not to mention, the original ''Fallout'' engine had little to brag about). But ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' reworked the leveling and stat system considerably and refocused the game even further around combat, turning the skills into perks while downplaying the importance of stats, which gutted a lot of the RPG side of the equation. Furthermore, the weaker conversation system killed a lot of the story aspects as well, and without the karma system, there were fewer opportunities for the protagonist to define themselves. When ''VideoGame/Fallout76'' effectively stripped out the story entirely, the game was left with little more than combat, base-building, and a handful of RPGElements. Not being able to lean on VATS also made it evident just how lackluster the gunplay in the Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games really was.

** By a similar count, the first few games dipped themselves in a RaygunGothic aesthetic that conjured up visions of old-school [[TheFifties 1950s]] [[{{Eagleland}} Americana]] and PatrioticFervor. But they were also a dark and twisted satire of that ideal, and Pre-War America was near-universally treated as hypocritical, violent, imperialistic, and prejuduced. As the series went on, though, the PatrioticFervor elements of the series became increasingly less satirical - though there were still attempts made, such as the Mass Fusion subplot in ''4'', they were counterbalanced by patriotic ideals and imagery being either played straight or [[DoNotDoThisCoolThing treated in such a manner that they might as well have been]]. Compare the treatment of Frank Horrigan and Liberty Prime, for an example. Both are marvels of old American super-science and in-universe {{Memetic Badass}}es with cartoonishly violent personalities that embody the warlike nature of America, but where Frank is the FinalBoss of ''Fallout 2'' and a CompleteMonster, Liberty Prime ''assists'' the protagonist and keeping him around is an objective in multiple games, meaning that even though he's technically utilized ''against'' the American government [[UnbuiltTrope in his first appearance]], [[MisaimedFandom not many people remembered him that way]]. Furthermore, Bethesda Softworks and Zenimax's growing obsession with ''Fallout''[='=]s branding, plastering things like Nuka-Cola or Vault Boys everywhere they could manage, saw things that were meant to satirize the hyper-capitalist ideals of Pre-War America being [[MisaimedMarketing taken and used to sell merch]]. The result was a series originally meant to attack patriotic '50s nostalgia now trading heavily on its aesthetic without irony. The drippingly patriotic introduction to ''Fallout 76'', in which America's tricentennial is celebrated with the ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of Vault 76 (a video that, in past games, would probably have been presented as a piece of in-universe ''propaganda''), was merely the point at which it seemed that the last traces of satire were scrubbed from the series.

** By a similar count, the first few games dipped themselves in a RaygunGothic aesthetic that conjured up visions of old-school [[TheFifties 1950s]] [[{{Eagleland}} Americana]] and PatrioticFervor. But they were also a dark and twisted satire of that ideal, and Pre-War America was near-universally treated as hypocritical, violent, imperialistic, and prejuduced. As the series went on, though, the PatrioticFervor elements of the series became increasingly less satirical - though there were still attempts made, such as the Mass Fusion subplot in ''4'', they were counterbalanced by patriotic ideals and imagery being either played straight or [[DoNotDoThisCoolThing treated in such a manner that they might as well have been]]. Compare the treatment of Frank Horrigan and Liberty Prime, for an example. Both are marvels of old American super-science and in-universe {{Memetic Badass}}es with cartoonishly violent personalities that embody the warlike nature of America, but where Frank is the FinalBoss of ''Fallout 2'' and a CompleteMonster, Liberty Prime ''assists'' the protagonist and keeping him around is an objective in multiple games. Liberty Prime was still forgiven because its' hyper-patriotism was meant as irony, since he was used to attack what remained of the American gobvernment. Furthermore, Bethesda Softworks and Zenimax's growing obsession with ''Fallout''[='=]s branding, plastering things like Nuka-Cola or Vault Boy everywhere they could manage, saw things that were meant to satirize the hyper-capitalist ideals of Pre-War America being [[MisaimedMarketing taken and used to sell merch]]. The result was a series originally meant to attack patriotic '50s nostalgia now trading heavily on its aesthetic without irony. The drippingly patriotic introduction to ''Fallout 76'', in which America's tricentennial is celebrated with the ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of Vault 76 (a video that, in past games, would probably have been presented as a piece of in-universe ''propaganda''), was merely the point at which it seemed that the last traces of satire were scrubbed from the series.

** By a similar count, the first few games dipped themselves in a RaygunGothic aesthetic that conjured up visions of old-school [[TheFifties 1950s]] [[{{Eagleland}} Americana]] and PatrioticFervor. But they were also a dark and twisted satire of that ideal, and Pre-War America was near-universally treated as hypocritical, violent, imperialistic, and prejuduced. As the series went on, though, the PatrioticFervor elements of the series became increasingly less satirical - though there were still attempts made, such as the Mass Fusion subplot in ''4'', they were counterbalanced by patriotic ideals and imagery being either played straight or [[DoNotDoThisCoolThing treated in such a manner that they might as well have been]]. Compare the treatment of Frank Horrigan and Liberty Prime, for an example. Both are marvels of old American super-science and in-universe {{Memetic Badass}}es with cartoonishly violent personalities that embody the warlike nature of America, but where Frank is the FinalBoss of ''Fallout 2'' and a CompleteMonster, Liberty Prime ''assists'' the protagonist and keeping him around is an objective in multiple games. Furthermore, Bethesda Softworks and Zenimax's growing obsession with ''Fallout''[='=]s branding, plastering things like Nuka-Cola or Vault Boy everywhere they could manage, saw things that were meant to satirize the hyper-capitalist ideals of Pre-War America being [[MisaimedMarketing taken and used to sell merch]]. The result was a series originally meant to attack patriotic '50s nostalgia now trading heavily on its aesthetic without irony. The drippingly patriotic introduction to ''Fallout 76'', in which America's tricentennial is celebrated with the ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of Vault 76 (a video that, in past games, would probably have been presented as a piece of in-universe ''propaganda''), was merely the point at which it seemed that the last traces of satire were scrubbed from the series.

* ''VideoGame/Fallout4'':

** ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' downplayed the importance of the KarmaMeter, with a player's karma only affecting a handful of perks and whether the ending describes them as a prick or not. It was widely seen as a good move, as it helped get away from the many StupidEvil and BlackAndWhiteMorality moments of ''3'', and moved the game in the direction of the more intriguingly grey factions. When ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' did away with the karma system entirely, though, it became a real problem, as the developers were no longer obligated to provide "good karma/bad karma" opportunities in the game. Without the need to let the player act out and be a jerk, a lot of other roleplay aspects fell by the wayside, leading to ''4'''s [[ButThouMust memetically railroaded conversations.]] It didn't help that ''4'''s factions just weren't as popular as ''New Vegas'''s, meaning defining oneself by faction loyalty felt like a lost cause.

* In ''VideoGame/Fallout4'', the protagonist's rather heavy backstory and motivation to rescue their son was widely criticized, with people noting that it constrained roleplay heavily and [[PlotTumor consumed the plot]]. But providing the protagonist with some level of backstory and an overarching goal they set out to achieve was the case in every prior ''Fallout''. The difference was that in the prior games, the level of backstory had essentially been "you are a vault dweller/tribe member/courier", and there was enough leeway in dialogue to have your character just not really care about that goal. ''Fallout 4'', on the other hand, more decisively defines your character's background and their feelings on their missing baby, which disappointed anyone who wanted to roleplay as something besides a concerned parent. Making things even more problematic was the very unfocused sandbox structure of ''4'' -- why would the protagonist speak so urgently of finding their child, and then spend the next month building settlements or hunting super mutants?
* ''VideoGame/Fallout2'' is generally very well-liked, but if there's one ''very'' vocal complaint about it, it's [[DenserAndWackier the excess of pop culture references and humor]]. The first game had its fair share of this, like being able to randomly encounter the [[Series/DoctorWho TARDIS]] or random troopers quoting movies on occasion, but these were more {{Easter Egg}}s than anything, and they were used fairly sparingly or still made some sense in context. In the second game, they show up a lot more and are much easier to find, which often damages the game's dramatic tone and story -- after all, it's a little hard to take the plight of a slave seriously when they're blatantly quoting ''Film/BackToTheFuture''. It's not for no reason that ''New Vegas'' essentially provided the option to turn the silly stuff off.

** By a similar count, the first few games dipped themselves in a RaygunGothic aesthetic that conjured up visions of old-school [[TheFifties 1950s]] [[{{Eagleland}} Americana]] and PatrioticFervor. But they were also a dark and twisted satire of that ideal, and Pre-War America was near-universally treated as hypocritical, violent, imperialistic, and prejuduced. As the series went on, though, the PatrioticFervor elements of the series became increasingly less satirical. Compare the treatment of Frank Horrigan and Liberty Prime. Both are marvels of old American super-science and in-universe {{Memetic Badass}}es with cartoonishly violent personalities that embody the warlike nature of America, but where Frank is the FinalBoss of ''Fallout 2'' and a CompleteMonster, Liberty Prime ''assists'' the protagonist and keeping him around is an objective in multiple games. This isn't meant to say that the Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games were ''completely'' blind to the hypocrisy of the Pre-War world; the Mass Fusion subplot in ''Fallout 4'', for instance, is solely devoted to showing just how ridiculously corrupt the Pre-War energy market was, but it is, again, largely kept to a subplot and gets counterbalanced by the entirely unironically patriotic moments in other parts of the game. Furthermore, Bethesda Softworks and Zenimax's growing obsession with ''Fallout''[='=]s branding, plastering things like Nuka-Cola or Vault Boy everywhere they could manage, saw things that were meant to satirize the hyper-capitalist ideals of Pre-War America being [[MisaimedMarketing taken and used to sell merch]]. The result was a series originally meant to attack patriotic '50s nostalgia now trading heavily on its aesthetic without irony. The drippingly patriotic introduction to ''Fallout 76'', in which America's tricentennial is celebrated with the ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of Vault 76 (a video that, in past games, would probably have been presented as a piece of in-universe ''propaganda''), was merely the point at which it seemed that the last traces of satire were scrubbed from the series.

** When ''Fallout 3'' came out, one of the more common gripes from old-school fans was the [[ItsTheSameSoItSucks apparent lack of advancement of the setting]] - despite the change from the West Coast to the East Coast and the timeline jumping forward by several decades, plenty of things from the old games are present that really shouldn't be there (such as caps, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and the Enclave), often having undergone {{Flanderization}} in the process, while the Capital Wasteland itself feels far less developed in terms of civilization than the West Coast. This was largely tamped down, though, because ''3'' was meant to be a reintroduction to the series, and the reaction would likely have been even worse if the first new ''Fallout'' game in decades didn't feel post-apocalyptic and lacked any iconic elements. However, ''4'' was seen as having largely doubled down on these elements to the point of introducing multiple {{Series Continuity Error}}s (most infamously, managing to accidentally retcon entire subplots of ''Fallout 1'' and ''2'' out of existence), the fanbase were significantly less forgiving. It didn't help that ''New Vegas'' had avoided most of those same problems in the interim, nor that most of Bethesda's new additions to the series lore got at best a lukewarm reception or were seen as largely derivative. When ''76'' announced that ''another'' game would somehow crowbar in the Enclave, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and caps, before most of those things should even exist, much less have expanded to West Virginia, the jokes about how Bethesda can't make anything new became a lot less niche.

** ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' significantly retooled the gameplay from an isometric turn-based game to a first-person one with a noticeably heavier focus on action. This did get a fair amount of TheyChangedItNowItSucks complaints, but it was broadly accepted, because the game, simply put, was still an RPG with many potential builds or ways to characterize yourself, one that now drew more from Bethesda's ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' and other contemporary action [=RPGs=]. ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' fleshed out the roleplay aspects even further to prove that there was nothing really wrong with the engine (not to mention, the original ''Fallout'' engine had little to brag about). But ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' reworked the leveling and stat system considerably and refocused the game even further around combat, turning the skills into perks while downplaying the importance of stats, which gutted a lot of the RPG side of the equation. Furthermore, the weaker conversation system killed a lot of the story aspects as well, and without the karma system, there were fewer opportunities for the protagonist to define themselves. When ''VideoGame/Fallout76'' effectively stripped out the story entirely, the game was left with little more than combat, base-building, and a handful of RPGElements. Not being able to lean on VATS also made it evident just how lackluster the gunplay in the Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games really was.

** By a similar count, the first few games dipped themselves in a RaygunGothic aesthetic that conjured up visions of old-school [[TheFifties 1950s]] [[{{Eagleland}} Americana]] and PatrioticFervor. But they were also a dark and twisted satire of that ideal, and Pre-War America was almost always treated as hypocritical, violent, imperialistic, and prejuduced. As the series went on, though, the PatrioticFervor elements of the series became increasingly less satirical. Compare the treatment of Frank Horrigan and Liberty Prime. Both are marvels of old American super-science and in-universe {{Memetic Badass}}es with cartoonishly violent personalities that embody the warlike nature of America, but where Frank is the FinalBoss of ''Fallout 2'' and a CompleteMonster, Liberty Prime ''assists'' the protagonist and keeping him around is an objective in multiple games. This isn't meant to say that the Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games were ''completely'' blind to the hypocrisy of the Pre-War world; the Mass Fusion subplot in ''Fallout 4'', for instance, is solely devoted to showing just how ridiculously corrupt the Pre-War energy market was. However, Bethesda Softworks and Zenimax's growing obsession with ''Fallout''[='=]s branding, plastering things like Nuka-Cola or Vault Boy everywhere they could manage, saw things that were meant to satirize the hyper-capitalist ideals of Pre-War America being [[MisaimedMarketing taken and used to sell merch]]. The result was a series originally meant to attack patriotic '50s nostalgia now trading heavily on its aesthetic without irony. The drippingly patriotic introduction to ''Fallout 76'', in which America's tricentennial is celebrated with the ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of Vault 76 (a video that, in past games, would probably have been presented as a piece of in-universe ''propaganda''), was merely the point at which many felt that the last traces of satire were scrubbed from the series.
** ''Fallout 76'' was accused of resting on aging gameplay mechanics that had grown uninspired and derivative. The Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games, like all Bethesda titles, are ''all'' famous for reusing the same engine. The problem is that (almost) all of the previous ''Fallout'' games had RPGElements, the VATS system, interesting [=NPCs=], and well-written quests and stories. All of these were extraordinarily stripped-down or removed from ''76'', leaving only the things that people complained about for so many years with little of the old charm.

* ''VideoGame/Fallout2'' is generally very well-liked, but if there's one ''very'' vocal complaint about it, it's [[DenserAndWackier the excess of pop culture references and humor]]. The first game had its fair share of this, like being able to randomly encounter the [[Series/DoctorWho TARDIS]] or random troopers quoting movies on occasion, but these were more {{Easter Egg}}s than anything, and they were used fairly sparingly or still made some sense in context. In the second game, they show up a lot more often and are much easier to find, which damages the game's dramatic tone and story -- After all, it's a little hard to take the plight of a slave seriously when they're blatantly quoting ''Film/BackToTheFuture''.
* Many of the complaints from Obsidian fans about the Creation Engine being too dated for Bethesda’s games seem to forget that all the games before 3 are built on dated or extinct types of gameplay or engines.

* When ''VideoGame/Fallout76'' came out, it was lambasted almost immediately as the worst ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'' game ever made, with unflattering comparisons to ''VideoGame/FalloutBrotherhoodOfSteel'' (the previous undisputed title holder in the eyes of fans) for its buggy gameplay, lack of story, and mangling of the lore. Other fans countered that it simply marked the culmination of trends that had been going on throughout the Creator/{{Bethesda}} era of the series, with some even going back all the way to the acclaimed first two games.

** By a similar count, the first few games dipped themselves in a RaygunGothic aesthetic that conjured up visions of old-school Americana and PatrioticFervor. But they were also a dark and twisted satire of TheFifties' {{Eagleland}} ideal, and Pre-War America was almost always treated as hypocritical, violent, imperialistic, and prejuduced. As the series went on, though, the PatrioticFervor elements of the series became increasingly less satirical. Compare the treatment of Frank Horrigan and Liberty Prime: Both are marvels of old American super-science and in-universe {{Memetic Badass}}es with cartoonishly violent personalities that embody the warlike nature of America, but where Frank is the FinalBoss of ''Fallout 2'' and a CompleteMonster, Liberty Prime ''assists'' the protagonist and keeping him around is an objective in multiple games. Of course, this isn't meant to say that the Bethesda-era Fallouts still didn't critique or show contempt for the Pre-War world, with only a single example being that the Mass Fusion subplot in ''Fallout 4'' is solely devoted to showing just how ridiculously corrupt the Pre-War energy market was. Anyway, Bethesda Softworks and Zenimax's growing obsession with ''Fallout''[='=]s branding, plastering things like Nuka-Cola or Vault Boy everywhere they could manage, saw things that were meant to satirize the hyper-capitalist ideals of Pre-War America being taken and used to sell merch. The result was a series originally meant to attack patriotic '50s nostalgia now trading heavily on its aesthetic without irony. The drippingly patriotic introduction to ''Fallout 76'', in which America's tricentennial is celebrated with the ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of Vault 76 (a video that, in past games, would probably have been presented as a piece of in-universe ''propaganda''), was merely the point at which many claimed the last traces of satire were scrubbed from the series.
** ''Fallout 76'' was accused of being glitchy to point of being irritating and using uninspired, derivative gameplay. The Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games, like all Bethesda titles, are ''all'' famous for reusing the same engine and bugs. The problem is that (almost) all of the previous ''Fallout'' games had RPGElements, the VATS system, interesting [=NPCs=], and well-written quests and stories. All of these were extraordinarily stripped-down or removed from ''76'', leaving only the things that people complained about for so many years with little of the old charm.

* When ''VideoGame/Fallout76'' came out, it was lambasted almost immediately as the worst ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'' game ever made, with unflattering comparisons to ''VideoGame/FalloutBrotherhoodOfSteel'' (the previous undisputed title holder in the eyes of fans) for its buggy gameplay, lack of story, and mangling of the lore. Other fans countered that it simply marked the culmination of trends that had been going on throughout the Creator/{{Bethesda}} era of the series, if not going back all the way to the acclaimed first two games.
** ''Fallout 76'' earned a lot of derision for its complete removal of human [=NPCs=], leaving only {{Apocalyptic Log}}s for fleshing out characters. This was heralded in ''VideoGame/Fallout3'', which offered significantly less dialogue than the prior games, and ''VideoGame/Fallout4'', which offered even less than that. Thing is, "significantly less than ''VideoGame/Fallout2''" is still a lot, so it didn't raise as many eyebrows, and there were still a large number of well-written characters to interact with.
** ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' significantly retooled the gameplay from an isometric turn-based game to a first-person one with a noticeably heavier focus on action. This did get a fair amount of TheyChangedItNowItSucks complaints, but it was broadly accepted, because the game, simply put, was still an RPG with many potential builds or ways to characterize yourself, one that now drew more from Bethesda's ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' and other contemporary action [=RPGs=]. ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' fleshed out the roleplay aspects even further to prove that there was nothing really wrong with the engine (not to mention, the original ''Fallout'' engine had little to brag about). But ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' reworked the leveling and stat system considerably and refocused the game even further around combat, turning the skills into perks while downplaying the importance of stats, which gutted a lot of the RPG side of the equation. Worse, it also featured a notoriously weak conversation system that killed a lot of the story aspects as well, and without the karma system, there were few opportunities for the protagonist to define themselves. When ''VideoGame/Fallout76'' effectively stripped out the story entirely, the game was left with little more than combat, base-building, and a handful of RPGElements. Not being able to lean on VATS also made it evident just how lackluster the gunplay in the Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games really was.

** By a similar count, the first few games dipped themselves in a RaygunGothic aesthetic that conjured up visions of old-school Americana and PatrioticFervor. But they were also a dark and twisted satire of TheFifties' {{Eagleland}} ideal, and pre-War America was always treated as hypocritical, violent, imperialistic, and prejuduced. As the series went on, though, the PatrioticFervor elements of the series became increasingly less satirical. Compare the treatment of Frank Horrigan and Liberty Prime: Both are marvels of old American super-science and in-universe {{Memetic Badass}}es with cartoonishly violent personalities that embody the warlike nature of America, but where Frank is the FinalBoss of ''Fallout 2'' and a CompleteMonster, Liberty Prime ''assists'' the protagonist and keeping him around is an objective in multiple games. Meanwhile, Bethesda's growing obsession with ''Fallout''[='=]s branding, plastering things like Nuka-Cola or the Vault Boy everywhere they could manage, saw things that were meant to satirize the hyper-capitalist ideals of pre-War America being taken and used to sell merch. The result was a series originally meant to attack patriotic '50s nostalgia now trading heavily on its aesthetic without irony. The drippingly patriotic introduction to ''Fallout 76'', in which America's tricentennial is celebrated with the ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of Vault 76 (a video that, in past games, would probably have been presented as a piece of in-universe ''propaganda''), was merely the point at which the last traces of satire were scrubbed from the series.
** ''Fallout 76'' was accused of being glitchy to point of being irritating and using uninspired, derivative gameplay. The Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games, like all Bethesda titles, are ''all'' famous for reusing the same engine and bugs. The problem is that the previous ''Fallout'' games had RPGElements, the VATS system, interesting [=NPCs=], and well-written quests and stories. All of these were extraordinarily stripped-down or removed from ''76'', leaving only the things that people complained about for so many years with little of the charm.
** When ''Fallout 3'' came out, one of the more common gripes from old-school fans was the [[ItsTheSameSoItSucks apparent lack of advancement of the setting]] - despite the change from the West Coast to the East Coast and the timeline jumping forward by decades, plenty of things from the old games are present that really shouldn't be there (such as caps, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and the Enclave), often having undergone {{Flanderization}} in the process, while the Capital Wasteland itself feels far less developed in terms of civilization than the West Coast. This was largely tamped down, though, because ''3'' was meant to be a reintroduction to the series, and the reaction would likely have been even worse if the first new ''Fallout'' game in decades didn't feel post-apocalyptic and lacked any iconic elements. But when ''4'' largely doubled down on these elements to the point of introducing multiple {{Series Continuity Error}}s (most infamously, managing to accidentally retcon entire subplots of ''Fallout 1'' and ''2'' out of existence), the fanbase was a fair bit less forgiving. It didn't help that ''New Vegas'' had avoided most of those same problems in the interim, nor that most of Bethesda's new additions to the series lore got at best a lukewarm reception or were seen as derivative. When ''76'' announced that ''another'' game would somehow crowbar in the Enclave, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and caps, before most of those things should even exist, much less have expanded to West Virginia, the jokes about how Bethesda can't make anything new became a lot less niche.

* ''VideoGame/Fallout2'' is generally very well-liked, but if there's one complaint about it, it's [[DenserAndWackier the excess of pop culture references and humor]]. The first game had its fair share of this, like being able to randomly encounter the [[Series/DoctorWho TARDIS]] or random troopers quoting movies on occasion, but these were more {{Easter Egg}}s than anything, and they were used fairly sparingly or made some sense in context. In the second game, they show up a lot more often and are much easier to find -- it's a little hard to take the plight of a slave seriously when they're quoting ''Film/BackToTheFuture''.

** When ''Fallout 3'' came out, one of the more common gripes from old-school fans was the [[ItsTheSameSoItSucks apparent lack of advancement of the setting]] - despite the change from the West Coast to the East Coast and the timeline jumping forward by decades, plenty of things from the old games are present that really shouldn't be there (such as caps, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and the Enclave), often having undergone {{Flanderization}} in the process, while the Capital Wasteland itself feels far less developed in terms of civilization than the West Coast. This was largely tamped down, though, because ''3'' was meant to be a reintroduction to the series, and the reaction would likely have been even worse if the first new ''Fallout'' game in decades didn't feel post-apocalyptic and lacked any iconic elements. But when ''4'' largely doubled down on these elements to the point of introducing multiple {{Series Continuity Error}}s (most infamously, managing to accidentally retcon entire subplots of ''Fallout 1'' and ''2'' out of existence), the fanbase was a fair bit less forgiving. It didn't help that ''New Vegas'' had avoided most of those same problems in the interim, nor that most of Bethesda's new additions to the series lore got at best a lukewarm reception. When ''76'' announced that ''another'' game would somehow crowbar in the Enclave, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and caps, before most of those things should even exist, much less have expanded to West Virginia, the jokes about how Bethesda can't make anything new became a lot less niche.

** When ''Fallout 3'' came out, one of the more common gripes from old-school fans was the [[ItsTheSameSoItSucks apparent lack of advancement of the setting]] - despite the change from the West Coast to the East Coast and the timeline jumping forward by decades, plenty of things from the old games are present that really shouldn't be there (such as caps, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and the Enclave), often having undergone {{Flanderization}} in the process, while the Capital Wasteland itself feels far less developed in terms of civilization than the West Coast. This was largely tamped down, though, because ''3'' was meant to be a reintroduction to the series, and the reaction would likely have been even worse if the first new ''Fallout'' game in decades didn't feel post-apocalyptic and lacked any iconic elements. But when ''4'' largely doubled down on these elements to the point of introducing multiple {{Series Continuity Error}}s (most infamously, managing to accidentally retcon entire subplots of ''Fallout 1'' and ''2'' out of existenc3), the fanbase was a fair bit less forgiving. It didn't help that ''New Vegas'' had avoided most of those same problems in the interim, nor that most of Bethesda's new additions to the series lore got at best a lukewarm reception. When ''76'' announced that ''another'' game would somehow crowbar in the Enclave, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and caps, before most of those things should even exist, much less have expanded to West Virginia, the jokes about how Bethesda can't make anything new became a lot less niche.

** When ''Fallout 3'' came out, one of the more common gripes from old-school fans was the [[ItsTheSameSoItSucks apparent lack of advancement of the setting]] - despite the change from the West Coast to the East Coast and the timeline jumping forward by decades, plenty of things from the old games are present that really shouldn't be there (such as caps, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and the Enclave), often having undergone {{Flanderization}} in the process, while the Capital Wasteland itself feels far less developed in terms of civilization than the West Coast. This was largely tamped down, though, because ''3'' was meant to be a reintroduction to the series, and the reaction would likely have been even worse if the first new ''Fallout'' game in decades didn't feel post-apocalyptic and lacked any iconic elements. But when ''4'' largely doubled down on these elements to the point of introducing multiple {{Series Continuity Error}}s (most infamously, managing to accidentally retcon entire subplots of ''Fallout 1'' and ''2'' by accident), the fanbase was a fair bit less forgiving. It didn't help that ''New Vegas'' had avoided most of those same problems in the interim, nor that most of Bethesda's new additions to the series lore got at best a lukewarm reception. When ''76'' announced that ''another'' game would somehow crowbar in the Enclave, Super Mutants, the Brotherhood, and caps, before most of those things should even exist, much less have expanded to West Virginia, the jokes about how Bethesda can't make anything new became a lot less niche.

When ''VideoGame/Fallout76'' came out, it was lambasted almost immediately as the worst ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'' game ever made, with unflattering comparisons to ''VideoGame/FalloutBrotherhoodOfSteel'' (the previous undisputed title holder in the eyes of fans) for its buggy gameplay, lack of story, and mangling of the lore. Other fans countered that it simply marked the culmination of trends that had been going on throughout the Creator/{{Bethesda}} era of the series, if not going back all the way to the acclaimed first two games.
* ''Fallout 76'' earned a lot of derision for its complete removal of human [=NPCs=], leaving only {{Apocalyptic Log}}s for fleshing out characters. This was heralded in ''VideoGame/Fallout3'', which offered significantly less dialogue than the prior games, and ''VideoGame/Fallout4'', which offered even less than that. Thing is, "significantly less than ''VideoGame/Fallout2''" is still a lot, so it didn't raise as many eyebrows, and there were still a large number of well-written characters to interact with.
* ''VideoGame/Fallout3'' significantly retooled the gameplay from an isometric turn-based game to a first-person one with a noticeably heavier focus on action. This did get a fair amount of TheyChangedItNowItSucks complaints, but it was broadly accepted, because the game, simply put, was still an RPG with many potential builds or ways to characterize yourself, one that now drew more from Bethesda's ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' and other contemporary action [=RPGs=]. ''VideoGame/FalloutNewVegas'' fleshed out the roleplay aspects even further to prove that there was nothing really wrong with the engine (not to mention, the original ''Fallout'' engine had little to brag about). But ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' reworked the leveling and stat system considerably and refocused the game even further around combat, turning the skills into perks while downplaying the importance of stats, which gutted a lot of the RPG side of the equation. Worse, it also featured a notoriously weak conversation system that killed a lot of the story aspects as well, and without the karma system, there were few opportunities for the protagonist to define themselves. When ''VideoGame/Fallout76'' effectively stripped out the story entirely, the game was left with little more than combat, base-building, and a handful of RPGElements. Not being able to lean on VATS also made it evident just how lackluster the gunplay in the Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games really was.

* The early games stuck pretty firmly to their WarIsHell message, but [[DoNotDoThisCoolThing often had trouble maintaining it]]. While it was possible to get through the whole game without killing anyone personally, you could also blow any character into a pile of LudicrousGibs with a large arsenal of weapons. On the other hand, many of the best rewards and endings were found by playing it safe and avoiding direct conflict, the actual combat system wasn't great, and the villains were invariably people who sought out violence as a first resort. But as ActionizedSequel after ActionizedSequel came out, the focus shifted far more towards "blowing up people for fun and profit", culminating in ''Fallout 76'', where taking control of and using one of the same nuclear weapons that killed most of humanity is your primary objective.
* By a similar count, the first few games dipped themselves in a RaygunGothic aesthetic that conjured up visions of old-school Americana and PatrioticFervor. But they were also a dark and twisted satire of TheFifties' {{Eagleland}} ideal, and pre-War America was always treated as hypocritical, violent, imperialistic, and prejuduced. As the series went on, though, the PatrioticFervor elements of the series became increasingly less satirical. Compare the treatment of Frank Horrigan and Liberty Prime -- both are marvels of old American super-science and in-universe {{Memetic Badass}}es with cartoonishly violent personalities that embody the warlike nature of America, but where Frank is the FinalBoss of ''Fallout 2'' and a CompleteMonster, Liberty Prime ''assists'' the protagonist and keeping him around is an objective in multiple games. Meanwhile, Bethesda's growing obsession with ''Fallout''[='=]s branding, plastering things like Nuka-Cola or the Vault Boy everywhere they could manage, saw things that were meant to satirize the hyper-capitalist ideals of pre-War America being taken and used to sell merch. The result was a series originally meant to attack patriotic '50s nostalgia now trading heavily on its aesthetic without irony. The drippingly patriotic introduction to ''Fallout 76'', in which America's tricentennial is celebrated with the ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of Vault 76 (a video that, in past games, would probably have been presented as a piece of in-universe ''propaganda''), was merely the point at which the last traces of satire were scrubbed from the series.
* ''Fallout 76'' was accused of being glitchy to point of being irritating and using uninspired, derivative gameplay. The Bethesda-era ''Fallout'' games, like all Bethesda titles, are ''all'' famous for reusing the same engine and bugs. The problem is that the previous ''Fallout'' games had RPGElements, the VATS system, interesting [=NPCs=], and well-written quests and stories. All of these were extraordinarily stripped-down or removed from ''76'', leaving only the things that people complained about for so many years with little of the charm.

* By a similar count, the first few games dipped themselves in a RaygunGothic aesthetic that conjured up visions of old-school Americana and PatrioticFervor. But they were also a dark and twisted satire of TheFifties' {{Eagleland}} ideal, and pre-war America was always treated as hypocritical, violent, imperialistic, and prejuduced. As the series went on, though, the PatrioticFervor elements of the series became increasingly less satirical. Compare the treatment of Frank Horrigan and Liberty Prime -- both are marvels of old American super-science and in-universe {{Memetic Badass}}es with cartoonishly violent personalities that embody the warlike nature of America, but where Frank is the FinalBoss of ''Fallout 2'' and a CompleteMonster, Liberty Prime ''assists'' the protagonist and keeping him around is an objective in multiple games. Not helping matters was Bethesda's growing obsession with ''Fallout''[='=]s branding, plastering things like Nuka-Cola or the Vault Boy everywhere they could manage, taking things that were meant to satirize the hypercapitalist ideals of pre-War America and using them to sell merch. The result was a series originally meant to attack patriotic '50s nostalgia now trading heavily on its aesthetic without irony.