History Film / JFK

6th Aug '16 6:14:50 PM ThatBitterTase
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* DanBrowned: Holy crap, this is most definitely the case. This film presents outrageous assumptions as absolute proof that JFK's assassination was a giant conspiracy theory. Some of the worst instances of this involve the epileptic being taken to the hospital but never being admitted, then vanishing (absolutely false, he was a man named Jerry Belknap), the smoke on the grassy knoll (the rifles did not produce smoke like that, something Stone learned during filming and had to resort to smoke machines to get the desired effect) and the thoroughly debunked "magic bullet" theory (it relies on JFK and Gov. Connally sitting differently than where they were actually sitting), just to name a few. The trial was in reality a complete farce, and was far more outrageous than the film presents it as, and the jury, after hearing everything, only took half an hour to acquit Shaw, because Garrison had absolutely no credible evidence.

to:

* DanBrowned: Holy crap, this is most definitely the case. This film presents outrageous assumptions as absolute proof that JFK's assassination was a giant conspiracy theory. Some of the worst instances of this involve the epileptic being taken to the hospital but never being admitted, then vanishing (absolutely false, he was a man named Jerry Belknap), Belknap who left the hospital on realizing the doctors were too busy trying to save Kennedy to treat his minor injuries), the smoke on the grassy knoll (the rifles did not produce smoke like that, something Stone learned during filming and had to resort to smoke machines to get the desired effect) effect), the umbrella man signaling the shooters (actually a man named Louie Witt who was waving the umbrella as a deeply-obscure political protest), and the thoroughly debunked "magic bullet" theory (it relies on JFK and Gov. Connally sitting differently than where they were actually sitting), just to name a few. The trial was in reality a complete farce, and was far more outrageous than the film presents it as, and the jury, after hearing everything, only took half an hour to acquit Shaw, because Garrison had absolutely no credible evidence.


Added DiffLines:

** Dean Andrews is presented as a sinister manipulator. The real Dean Andrews was described repeatedly as a LargeHam who wouldn't harm a fly.
22nd Jul '16 4:41:58 AM JulianLapostat
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Added DiffLines:

* DanBrowned: Holy crap, this is most definitely the case. This film presents outrageous assumptions as absolute proof that JFK's assassination was a giant conspiracy theory. Some of the worst instances of this involve the epileptic being taken to the hospital but never being admitted, then vanishing (absolutely false, he was a man named Jerry Belknap), the smoke on the grassy knoll (the rifles did not produce smoke like that, something Stone learned during filming and had to resort to smoke machines to get the desired effect) and the thoroughly debunked "magic bullet" theory (it relies on JFK and Gov. Connally sitting differently than where they were actually sitting), just to name a few. The trial was in reality a complete farce, and was far more outrageous than the film presents it as, and the jury, after hearing everything, only took half an hour to acquit Shaw, because Garrison had absolutely no credible evidence.


Added DiffLines:

* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: The real Jim Garrison tried to railroad an innocent man, Shaw, after his investigation came up empty. The trial was a fiasco. Indeed, many conspiracy theorists, that is people who doubted the Warren Commission, protested Garrison's trial and prosecution as tarnishing any genuine grounds for criticism of the official report.
** Arguably, JFK is given one of these so that Stone can portray Lyndon Johnson as a manipulative super-villain who rams the Tonkin Gulf resolution through Congress to get elected. In fact, Kennedy had ''de facto'' committed the US to South Vietnam by the time he was assassinated, and the CIA-backed coup that killed Ngo Dingh Diem and plunged South Vietnam into chaos had already taken place.
22nd Jul '16 4:40:43 AM JulianLapostat
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* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Clay Shaw was, in real life, a RenaissanceMan whose achievements in architecture and theater are nigh-legendary, and who openly supported and backed John F. Kennedy. This film's Clay Shaw is a DepravedHomosexual lunatic. Shaw had HundredPercentApprovalRating in New Orleans and was admired as a philanthropist and patron of the arts (he was friends with Creator/TennesseeWilliams).

to:

* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Clay Shaw was, in real life, a RenaissanceMan whose achievements in architecture and theater are nigh-legendary, and who openly supported and backed John F. Kennedy. This film's Clay Shaw is a DepravedHomosexual lunatic. Shaw had HundredPercentApprovalRating in New Orleans and was admired as a philanthropist and patron of the arts (he was friends with Creator/TennesseeWilliams).
22nd Jul '16 4:40:15 AM JulianLapostat
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Added DiffLines:

* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Clay Shaw was, in real life, a RenaissanceMan whose achievements in architecture and theater are nigh-legendary, and who openly supported and backed John F. Kennedy. This film's Clay Shaw is a DepravedHomosexual lunatic. Shaw had HundredPercentApprovalRating in New Orleans and was admired as a philanthropist and patron of the arts (he was friends with Creator/TennesseeWilliams).
7th Jul '16 6:20:13 PM garfield2710
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* OffOnATechnicality: Much of the information about Clay Shaw is thrown out (particularly the fact that he used the alias "Clay Bertrand" while participating in his shady deals) because he didn't have a lawyer present while he was being booked.[[note]]In fact, his lawyer ''was'' in the police station but was involved with other officials, while Shaw was at the booking desk.[[/note]] The movie says this wasn't legally sound, and then implies that it may have been part of the GovernmentConspiracy to keep Shaw from being convicted. In real life, the judge took over questioning when the booking officer was called in and determined that he had badly violated procedure; in turn, the jurors reported in their statements that they were disgusted by Garrison's lack of evidence (their deliberations, including bathroom breaks, lasted a ''half-hour''). Of course, this completely overlooks the fact that Shaw ''called himself'' "Clay Bertrand." Why?

to:

* OffOnATechnicality: Much of the information about Clay Shaw is thrown out (particularly the fact that he used the alias "Clay Bertrand" while participating in his shady deals) because he didn't have a lawyer present while he was being booked.[[note]]In fact, his lawyer ''was'' in the police station but was involved with other officials, while Shaw was at the booking desk.[[/note]] The movie says this wasn't legally sound, and then implies that it may have been part of the GovernmentConspiracy to keep Shaw from being convicted. In real life, the judge took over questioning when the booking officer was called in and determined that he had badly violated procedure; in turn, the jurors reported in their statements that they were disgusted by Garrison's lack of evidence (their deliberations, including bathroom breaks, lasted a ''half-hour''). Of course, this completely overlooks the fact that Shaw ''called himself'' "Clay Bertrand." Why?



** Unintentional example: One scene features Garrison and one of his staff in the Depository with a gun identical to Oswald's. The staffer quotes the supposed time stated by the Warren Report for Oswald's shots, 5.6 seconds,[[note]]The report actually gives Oswald closer to eight seconds.[[/note]] and then goes through the motions of firing three shots while Garrison times him. Garrison then announces his time as "Six, seven seconds." As numerous people who've timed the scene have reported, Garrison's staffer actually ''makes the shots in 5.6 seconds''. Irrelevant because two of the bullets were less than a second apart, making it quite impossible. In addition, the rifle was unloaded, and the gunman wasn't aiming.

to:

** Unintentional example: One scene features Garrison and one of his staff in the Depository with a gun identical to Oswald's. The staffer quotes the supposed time stated by the Warren Report for Oswald's shots, 5.6 seconds,[[note]]The report actually gives Oswald closer to eight seconds.[[/note]] and then goes through the motions of firing three shots while Garrison times him. Garrison then announces his time as "Six, seven seconds." As numerous people who've timed the scene have reported, Garrison's staffer actually ''makes the shots in 5.6 seconds''. Irrelevant because two of the bullets were less than a second apart, making it quite impossible. In addition, the rifle was unloaded, and the gunman wasn't aiming.
22nd Jun '16 11:36:15 AM AnotherGuy
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* OffOnATechnicality: Much of the information about Clay Shaw is thrown out (particularly the fact that he used the alias "Clay Bertrand" while participating in his shady deals) because he didn't have a lawyer present while he was being booked.[[note]]In fact, his lawyer ''was'' in the police station but was involved with other officials, while Shaw was at the booking desk.[[/note]] The movie says this wasn't legally sound, and then implies that it may have been part of the GovernmentConspiracy to keep Shaw from being convicted. In real life, the judge took over questioning when the booking officer was called in and determined that he had badly violated procedure; in turn, the jurors reported in their statements that they were disgusted by Garrison's lack of evidence (their deliberations, including bathroom breaks, lasted a ''half-hour'').

to:

* OffOnATechnicality: Much of the information about Clay Shaw is thrown out (particularly the fact that he used the alias "Clay Bertrand" while participating in his shady deals) because he didn't have a lawyer present while he was being booked.[[note]]In fact, his lawyer ''was'' in the police station but was involved with other officials, while Shaw was at the booking desk.[[/note]] The movie says this wasn't legally sound, and then implies that it may have been part of the GovernmentConspiracy to keep Shaw from being convicted. In real life, the judge took over questioning when the booking officer was called in and determined that he had badly violated procedure; in turn, the jurors reported in their statements that they were disgusted by Garrison's lack of evidence (their deliberations, including bathroom breaks, lasted a ''half-hour''). Of course, this completely overlooks the fact that Shaw ''called himself'' "Clay Bertrand." Why?
22nd Jun '16 11:35:05 AM AnotherGuy
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** Unintentional example: One scene features Garrison and one of his staff in the Depository with a gun identical to Oswald's. The staffer quotes the supposed time stated by the Warren Report for Oswald's shots, 5.6 seconds,[[note]]The report actually gives Oswald closer to eight seconds.[[/note]] and then goes through the motions of firing three shots while Garrison times him. Garrison then announces his time as "Six, seven seconds." As numerous people who've timed the scene have reported, Garrison's staffer actually ''makes the shots in 5.6 seconds''.

to:

** Unintentional example: One scene features Garrison and one of his staff in the Depository with a gun identical to Oswald's. The staffer quotes the supposed time stated by the Warren Report for Oswald's shots, 5.6 seconds,[[note]]The report actually gives Oswald closer to eight seconds.[[/note]] and then goes through the motions of firing three shots while Garrison times him. Garrison then announces his time as "Six, seven seconds." As numerous people who've timed the scene have reported, Garrison's staffer actually ''makes the shots in 5.6 seconds''. Irrelevant because two of the bullets were less than a second apart, making it quite impossible. In addition, the rifle was unloaded, and the gunman wasn't aiming.
22nd Jun '16 11:33:02 AM AnotherGuy
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* ThoseTwoGuys: The fifth movie to feature both Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau, but the only one where they never share a scene.

to:

* ThoseTwoGuys: The fifth movie to feature both [[Film/TheOddCouple Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau, Matthau]], but the only one where they never share a scene.
22nd Jun '16 11:32:22 AM AnotherGuy
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** The movie does [[DanBrowned fail with research on a gigantic scale]] by leaving out the part where JFK was responsible for starting the Vietnam War, and pretending he was instead looking to end it.
22nd Jun '16 11:28:21 AM AnotherGuy
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* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: The real Jim Garrison tried to railroad an innocent man, Shaw, after his investigation came up empty. The trial was a fiasco. Indeed, many conspiracy theorists, that is people who doubted the Warren Commission, protested Garrison's trial and prosecution as tarnishing any genuine grounds for criticism of the official report.
** Arguably, JFK is given one of these so that Stone can portray Lyndon Johnson as a manipulative super-villain who rams the Tonkin Gulf resolution through Congress to get elected. In fact, Kennedy had ''de facto'' committed the US to South Vietnam by the time he was assassinated, and the CIA-backed coup that killed Ngo Dingh Diem and plunged South Vietnam into chaos had already taken place.
* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Lyndon Johnson is given one of these.
** More controversially, by ennobling Garrison it makes out Clay Shaw and Ferrie to be villains, when at the time, even people who were doubtful of the Warren Commission regarded them as innocent. Clay Shaw in fact had ''voted'' for Kennedy, was highly loved by the people of New Orleans, and was an intellectual and friend of Tennessee Williams.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Film.JFK