History FantasyGunControl / TableTopGames

22nd Jun '17 2:24:40 PM ProfessorDetective
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** Then the "Reign of Winter" Adventure Path revolved around tracking down the great witch BabaYaga with the trail leading the party to her homeland: [[spoiler:[[WorldWarOne Russia, circa 1918]], thus facilitating the addition of several WWI-era Russian firearms (and a British tank) and even a Fighter Archetype based around trench warfare to the game.]] A later AP, "Iron Gods", takes place in the land with the crashed ship, and necessitated a brand-new sourcebook with technology up to laser weapons.

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** Then the "Reign of Winter" Adventure Path revolved around tracking down the great witch BabaYaga with the trail leading the party to her homeland: [[spoiler:[[WorldWarOne [[spoiler:[[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI Russia, circa 1918]], thus facilitating the addition of several WWI-era Russian firearms (and a British tank) and even a Fighter Archetype based around trench warfare to the game.]] A later AP, "Iron Gods", takes place in the land with the crashed ship, and necessitated a brand-new sourcebook with technology up to laser weapons.
22nd Jun '17 2:21:12 PM ProfessorDetective
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** A magically-unstable region is home to blackpowder firearm technology, and maybe some early rifles, revolvers, and shotguns. Another region is a ''Franchise/ConanTheBarbarian''-style land where an alien spaceship crashed. There you can find androids (available as player characters) and machinegun-toting {{Spider Tank}}s. Other planets in Golarion's solar system have even higher levels of technology, such as cybernetics and more spaceships.

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** A magically-unstable region is home to blackpowder firearm black powder firearms technology, and maybe some early rifles, revolvers, and shotguns. Another region is a ''Franchise/ConanTheBarbarian''-style land where an alien spaceship crashed. There you can find androids (available as player characters) and machinegun-toting {{Spider Tank}}s. Other planets in Golarion's solar system have even higher levels of technology, such as cybernetics and more spaceships.



** Then the "Reign of Winter" Adventure Path added several WWI-era Russian guns (and a British tank). A later AP, "Iron Gods", takes place in the land with the crashed ship, and necessitated a brand-new sourcebook with technology up to laser weapons.

to:

** Then the "Reign of Winter" Adventure Path added revolved around tracking down the great witch BabaYaga with the trail leading the party to her homeland: [[spoiler:[[WorldWarOne Russia, circa 1918]], thus facilitating the addition of several WWI-era Russian guns firearms (and a British tank). tank) and even a Fighter Archetype based around trench warfare to the game.]] A later AP, "Iron Gods", takes place in the land with the crashed ship, and necessitated a brand-new sourcebook with technology up to laser weapons.
2nd Jun '17 10:28:55 PM JustaUsername
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*** 5th Edition does provide Artificers with the Gunsmith archetype, allowing them access to the Thunder Cannon firearm. However, this is not exactly a firearm that would be mass produced, as the Thunder Cannon is a piece of {{Magitek}} that only the Gunsmith themselves can figure out [[OnlyICanMakeItGo how to fire]], let alone craft ammo for and maintain the weapon's functionality.

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*** 5th Edition does provide Artificers with the Gunsmith archetype, allowing them access to the powerful Thunder Cannon firearm.Cannon. However, this is not exactly a firearm that would be mass produced, as the Thunder Cannon is a piece of {{Magitek}} that only the Gunsmith themselves can figure out [[OnlyICanMakeItGo how to fire]], let alone craft ammo for and maintain the weapon's functionality.
2nd Jun '17 10:04:57 PM JustaUsername
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*** 5th Edition does provide Artificers with the Gunsmith archetype, allowing them access to the Thunder Cannon firearm. However, this is not exactly a weapon that would be mass produced, as the weapon is a piece of {{Magitek}} that only the Gunsmith themselves can figure out how to fire it, let alone craft ammo for and maintain the weapon's functionality.

to:

*** 5th Edition does provide Artificers with the Gunsmith archetype, allowing them access to the Thunder Cannon firearm. However, this is not exactly a weapon firearm that would be mass produced, as the weapon Thunder Cannon is a piece of {{Magitek}} that only the Gunsmith themselves can figure out [[OnlyICanMakeItGo how to fire it, fire]], let alone craft ammo for and maintain the weapon's functionality.
1st Jun '17 9:04:09 PM JustaUsername
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*** That said, there is a reasonable argument that gunpowder weapons might still proliferate as being at least a low-level ranged weapon used between standard armed forces, who aren't likely to benefit from magical protection. But guns wouldn't become the default weapon of choice in most D&D worlds the way they did in the modern world because protective enchantments and even simple CharlesAtlasSuperpowers counterbalance the natural efficiency of a decently developed gun.

to:

*** That said, there is a reasonable argument that gunpowder weapons might still proliferate as being at least a low-level ranged weapon used between standard armed forces, who aren't likely to benefit from magical protection. But guns wouldn't become the default weapon of choice in most D&D worlds the way they did in the modern world because protective enchantments and even simple CharlesAtlasSuperpowers {{Charles Atlas Superpower}}s counterbalance the natural efficiency of a decently developed gun.
1st Jun '17 9:03:41 PM JustaUsername
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Added DiffLines:

*** 5th Edition does provide Artificers with the Gunsmith archetype, allowing them access to the Thunder Cannon firearm. However, this is not exactly a weapon that would be mass produced, as the weapon is a piece of {{Magitek}} that only the Gunsmith themselves can figure out how to fire it, let alone craft ammo for and maintain the weapon's functionality.
21st May '17 3:17:24 AM WanderingBrowser
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** A common rationale for the lack of guns given in many D&D settings, explicitly or implicitly, is that it's due to an inversion of MugglesDoItBetter. Many different kinds of monster are ImmuneToBullets by virtue of the fact they can only be hurt with magic -- more importantly, there's a fairly low-level spell called [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin "Protection from Ordinary Missiles"]] which grants the ''exact same effect'' to the benefactor. This drastically undercuts the usefulness of guns, since being easy to train people to use means nothing when the beings you want to use them ''on'' will simply be unaffected by them. Without that advantage, early guns are basically inferior crossbows; inaccurate, slow to reload, prone to being rendered useless by the damp, with very variable stopping power and a propensity to explode and kill the user instead of the target, especially given how common PlayingWithFire abilities are in the typical D&D setting. Therefore, there's no real incentive to spend the time and effort refining guns when crossbows work just fine, especially when magically augmenting them to be quicker to load, lighter, etc, is available and far less likely to kill you before you get it to work. Even gunpowder as an explosive isn't that great a weapon, given how common protection from fire and heat is in D&D.
*** That said, there is a reasonable argument that gunpowder weapons might still proliferate as being at least a low-level ranged weapon used between standard armed forces, who aren't likely to benefit from magical protection. But guns wouldn't become the default weapon of choice in most D&D worlds the way they did in the modern world because protective enchantments and even simple CharlesAtlasSuperpowers counterbalance the natural efficiency of a decently developed gun.



*** A couple of anthology stories touch on the subject of smokepowder, both of them making the point that smuggling smokepowder can be more trouble than it's worth. In ''Smoke Powder And Mirrors'' by Jeff Grubb, Khelben himself stands next to exploding barrels of smokepowder and isn't even singed or disheveled. In another Waterdhavian story, one of the contraband-hunting characters receives a ''point-blank [[ShotgunsAreJustBetter blunderbuss shot]] in the face''. He recovers from its flash and thunder in as much time as it takes to say "[[DeflectorShields Protection from Normal Missiles]]".
*** Side note: All of the above are ''true'' of gunpowder as well. The balance is that firearms, while not any better than a crossbow in any practical sense until the US Civil war, are extremely easy to load and operate, making them great for empowering the lower classes but not so great for the hereditary monarchies of medieval Europe to maintain their monopoly on military force. So, depending on how much credit you want to give the author, this may be a clever way of slipping some in-setting ValuesDissonance into the story, making the characters true believers in the quasi-feudal system that keeps the peasants at the bottom where richer and better-supplied people like the protagonists and their foes can easily run over them without repercussion.

to:

*** A couple of anthology stories touch on the subject of smokepowder, both of them making the point that smuggling smokepowder can be more trouble than it's worth. In ''Smoke Powder And Mirrors'' by Jeff Grubb, Khelben himself stands next to exploding barrels of smokepowder and isn't even singed or disheveled.disheveled, courtesy of Protection From Fire being a readily-available, low-level wizard spell. In another Waterdhavian story, one of the contraband-hunting characters receives a ''point-blank [[ShotgunsAreJustBetter blunderbuss shot]] in the face''. He recovers from its flash and thunder in as much time as it takes to say "[[DeflectorShields Protection from Normal Missiles]]".
*** Side note: All of the above are ''true'' of gunpowder as well. The balance is that firearms, while not any better than a crossbow in any practical sense until the US Civil war, are extremely easy to load and operate, making them great for empowering the lower classes but not so great for the hereditary monarchies of medieval Europe to maintain their monopoly on military force. So, depending on how much credit you want to give the author, this may be a clever way of slipping some in-setting ValuesDissonance into the story, making the characters true believers in the quasi-feudal system that keeps the peasants at the bottom where richer and better-supplied people like the protagonists and their foes can easily run over them without repercussion.
Missiles]]".
10th May '17 8:53:04 AM Mudstone
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** Even more notable are the Skaven, who wield sniper rifles, flamethrowers, [[IncrediblyLamePun Ratling]] guns, laser cannons and... a ''nuke''. A lot of which hilariously backfires.

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** Even more notable are the Skaven, who wield sniper rifles, flamethrowers, [[IncrediblyLamePun Ratling]] guns, [[GatlingGood guns]], laser cannons and... a ''nuke''. A lot of which hilariously backfires.
10th May '17 8:52:26 AM Mudstone
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** However, the Knights of Bretonnia are a straight example, since they ''deliberately'' enforce Fantasy Gun Control in their own kingdom. In fact, they have Fantasy Gun Control in Bretonnia so hard some knights have magical protection from guns just because they hate them so much.

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** However, the Knights of Bretonnia are a straight example, since they ''deliberately'' enforce Fantasy Gun Control in their own kingdom. In fact, they have Fantasy Gun Control in Bretonnia so hard some knights have [[GunsAreWorthless magical protection from guns guns]] just [[ThePowerOfHate because they hate them so much.much]].
20th Feb '17 4:50:37 AM jormis29
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** The 1st edition ''Dungeon Master's Guide'' included in-game statistics for firearms, Gatling guns, dynamite, and other [[TheWildWest Wild West-era]] weapons in the context of a crossover campaign with ''Boot Hill'' (a now out-of-print Old West-themed [=RPG=] sold by [=TSR=] at the time), but it was "strongly urged" that they be limited to specific adventures or areas. ''AD&D'' 2nd edition had the arquebus (an early European musket) available for players to use at the DM's discretion. The 3rd edition Dungeon Master's Guide provided rules for certain "Renaissance" gunpowder weapons, modern and even futuristic firearms and explosives if they are to be included in the setting. Normally they are highly expensive or not buyable at all, however. 5th Edition has again provided stats in the DMG for guns ranging from flintlocks to antimatter rifles.

to:

** The 1st edition ''Dungeon Master's Guide'' included in-game statistics for firearms, Gatling guns, dynamite, and other [[TheWildWest Wild West-era]] weapons in the context of a crossover campaign with ''Boot Hill'' ''TabletopGame/BootHill'' (a now out-of-print Old West-themed [=RPG=] sold by [=TSR=] Creator/{{TSR}} at the time), but it was "strongly urged" that they be limited to specific adventures or areas. ''AD&D'' 2nd edition had the arquebus (an early European musket) available for players to use at the DM's discretion. The 3rd edition Dungeon Master's Guide provided rules for certain "Renaissance" gunpowder weapons, modern and even futuristic firearms and explosives if they are to be included in the setting. Normally they are highly expensive or not buyable at all, however. 5th Edition has again provided stats in the DMG for guns ranging from flintlocks to antimatter rifles.
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