History EvilCounterpart / TableTopGames

5th Mar '16 12:07:18 PM Unferth
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* In ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'', the Sabbat is the evil counterpart of the Camarilla. Or at least, the more evil counterpart (given that all members of both are vampires).

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* In ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'', the Sabbat is the evil counterpart of the Camarilla. Or at least, the more evil counterpart (given that all members of both Averted in ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'': Sabbath are vampires).BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and Camarilla is a texbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. Baali and Settites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HoolywoodSatanism/ReligionOfEvil could be.



** A more accurate example is Victor Steiner-Davion with his sister Katherine. Both were children of Hanse Davion, but raised on different worlds. Victor was very military, and tried to rule through that kind of thinking. Katherine was a political mastermind, gaining power through brinkmanship and guile (and [[MurderIsTheBestSolution murder]]). Both considered themselves to be the true heir of Hanse Davion. Neither had any real respect for the other; Victor saw Katherine as a foppish dilettante, while Katherine saw Victor as a manchild playing with wartoys. That they were responsible for the most destructive civil war in Inner Sphere history should not have been a surprise to anyone.

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** A more accurate example is Victor Steiner-Davion with his sister Katherine. Both were children of Hanse Davion, but raised on different worlds. Victor was very military, and tried to rule through that kind of thinking. Katherine was a political mastermind, gaining power through brinkmanship and guile (and [[MurderIsTheBestSolution murder]]). Both considered themselves to be the true heir of Hanse Davion. Neither had any real respect for the other; Victor saw Katherine as a foppish dilettante, while Katherine saw Victor as a manchild playing with wartoys. That they were responsible for the most destructive civil war in Inner Sphere history should not have been a surprise to anyone.
12th Feb '16 12:09:37 AM CountDorku
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** Gnomes and Kobolds: Both are skilled with technical skills (Gnomes are perpetually inventing new things, kobolds are excellent with traps), but gnomes are sturdy while kobolds are squishy.

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** Gnomes and Kobolds: Both are skilled with technical skills (Gnomes are perpetually inventing new things, kobolds are excellent with traps), but gnomes are sturdy and tend chaotic while kobolds are squishy.squishy and staunchly LawfulEvil. Their gods, Garl Glittergold and Kurtulmak, are thus evil counterparts to each other as well.
** Among gods, [[LawfulEvil Hextor, God of Tyranny]] is the counterpart to [[LawfulGood Heironeous, God of Valour]], to the point where both of them have a mailed fist holding some kind of ranged weapon for a symbol: Heironeous has a thunderbolt, Hextor three arrows. In the lore, they're [[CainAndAbel half-brothers]].
22nd Sep '15 8:07:07 AM Korval
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** Sun-Tzu Liao is this for Hanse Davion. Both are unparalleled [[{{TheChessmaster}} Chessmasters]]. Both ultimately did what they did to improve the quality of life for their people. And they both frequently use the same methods. Both of them made alliances with neighboring powers that primarily benefited themselves. And so forth. It could be argued that Sun-Tzu is more ruthless, being more willing to sacrifice his own people to achieve those ends, Hanse Davion has been just as willing to sacrifice his people too. And both of them ended up effectively being deified by their people.

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** Sun-Tzu Liao is this for Hanse Davion. Both are unparalleled [[{{TheChessmaster}} Chessmasters]]. Both ultimately did what they did to improve the quality of life for their people. And they both frequently use the same methods. Both of them made alliances with neighboring powers that primarily benefited themselves. And so forth. It could be argued that Sun-Tzu is more ruthless, being more willing to sacrifice his own people to achieve those ends, but Hanse Davion has been just as willing to sacrifice his people too. And both of them ended up effectively being deified by their people.
22nd Sep '15 8:06:12 AM Korval
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Added DiffLines:

* BattleTech can produce these on occassion, but because it tends towards GreyAndGreyMorality, deciding which one is the "good" one is sometimes difficult:
** Sun-Tzu Liao is this for Hanse Davion. Both are unparalleled [[{{TheChessmaster}} Chessmasters]]. Both ultimately did what they did to improve the quality of life for their people. And they both frequently use the same methods. Both of them made alliances with neighboring powers that primarily benefited themselves. And so forth. It could be argued that Sun-Tzu is more ruthless, being more willing to sacrifice his own people to achieve those ends, Hanse Davion has been just as willing to sacrifice his people too. And both of them ended up effectively being deified by their people.
** A more accurate example is Victor Steiner-Davion with his sister Katherine. Both were children of Hanse Davion, but raised on different worlds. Victor was very military, and tried to rule through that kind of thinking. Katherine was a political mastermind, gaining power through brinkmanship and guile (and [[MurderIsTheBestSolution murder]]). Both considered themselves to be the true heir of Hanse Davion. Neither had any real respect for the other; Victor saw Katherine as a foppish dilettante, while Katherine saw Victor as a manchild playing with wartoys. That they were responsible for the most destructive civil war in Inner Sphere history should not have been a surprise to anyone.
22nd Oct '14 1:56:58 PM MagBas
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** Regular Dwarves and the AiwaysChaoticEvil Derro and Duergar Dwarves.

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** Regular Dwarves and the AiwaysChaoticEvil AlwaysChaoticEvil Derro and Duergar Dwarves.
22nd Oct '14 1:56:22 PM MagBas
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* In regular ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', each of the player's race that is not an half-human hybrid has an EvilCounterpart, sharing one of their two greatest strength and having a weakness directly opposed to the second strength.
** Elves and Drow elves. Both have a dexterity bonus, a constitution penalty, and bonuses to perception skills, making them adepts at guerrilla tactics (plus, the drow live in the underdark and have darkvision). While the elves stand united, drow elves suffer from ChronicBackstabbingDisorder.
** Dwarves and giants. Both are sturdy and able to survive the harshest environments, but while dwarves are really good at defense, it is easy for smaller races to slip past the guard of giants.

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* In regular ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', each of the player's race that is not an half-human hybrid has an EvilCounterpart, sharing one of their two greatest strength and having a weakness directly opposed to the second strength.
EvilCounterpart.
** Elves and Drow elves. Both have a dexterity bonus, a constitution penalty, and bonuses to perception skills, making them adepts at guerrilla tactics (plus, the drow live in the underdark and have darkvision). While the elves stand united, are good, drow elves suffer from ChronicBackstabbingDisorder.
are an AlwaysChaoticEvil race.
** Regular Dwarves and giants. Both are sturdy the AiwaysChaoticEvil Derro and able to survive the harshest environments, but while dwarves are really good at defense, it is easy for smaller races to slip past the guard of giants.Duergar Dwarves.



** Humans and orcs: Both have the raw numbers and fast population growth to be adept at ZergRush tactics, but human adaptability since HumansAreAverage is contrasted to the fact that orcs have a pretty steep racial penalty to Intelligence and high strength bonuses, making it extremely hard for them to be anything else than the DumbMuscle.
22nd Oct '14 1:30:50 PM ElodieHiras
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* ''TabletopGame/{{Eberron}}'': the Blood of Vol is basically an evil version of the Undying Court, repackaged for mass consumption. Both involve divine magic without the involvement of Eberron's ambiguously real deities, but the Undying Court seems largely indifferent to the Sovereigns, the Silver Flame and so on, while the Blood of Vol is staunchly {{Nay Theist}}ic. Both have physical immortality via undeath as a tenet, but the Undying Court use positive energy and become the Undying while the Blood of Vol relies heavily on vampirism and lichdom. Both are led by undead elves, but the Undying Court are a council of NeutralGood deathless elders while Vol is NeutralEvil and is referred to as "the Lich-Queen". Indeed, the most Vol-friendly group of elves of Aerenal, the Stillborn, have adopted a practice of alchemically treating themselves to appear undead, despite being fully alive...that was developed by an Elven lineage that is for the most part staunchly loyal to the Court and who have been doing it for a very long time.

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* ''TabletopGame/{{Eberron}}'': the Blood of Vol is basically an evil version of the Undying Court, repackaged for mass consumption. Both involve divine magic without the involvement of Eberron's ambiguously real deities, but the Undying Court seems largely indifferent to the Sovereigns, the Silver Flame and so on, while the Blood of Vol is staunchly {{Nay Theist}}ic. Both have physical immortality via undeath as a tenet, but the Undying Court use positive energy and become the Undying while the Blood of Vol relies heavily on vampirism and lichdom. Both are led by undead elves, but the Undying Court are a council of NeutralGood deathless elders while Vol is NeutralEvil and is referred to as "the Lich-Queen". Indeed, the most Vol-friendly group of elves of Aerenal, the Stillborn, have adopted a practice of alchemically treating themselves to appear undead, despite being fully alive...that was developed by an Elven lineage that is for the most part staunchly loyal to the Court and who have been doing it for a very long time.time.
* In regular ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', each of the player's race that is not an half-human hybrid has an EvilCounterpart, sharing one of their two greatest strength and having a weakness directly opposed to the second strength.
** Elves and Drow elves. Both have a dexterity bonus, a constitution penalty, and bonuses to perception skills, making them adepts at guerrilla tactics (plus, the drow live in the underdark and have darkvision). While the elves stand united, drow elves suffer from ChronicBackstabbingDisorder.
** Dwarves and giants. Both are sturdy and able to survive the harshest environments, but while dwarves are really good at defense, it is easy for smaller races to slip past the guard of giants.
** Halflings and goblins. Both are stealthy and athletic, but halflings are known for their courage while goblins are known for their cowardice.
** Gnomes and Kobolds: Both are skilled with technical skills (Gnomes are perpetually inventing new things, kobolds are excellent with traps), but gnomes are sturdy while kobolds are squishy.
** Humans and orcs: Both have the raw numbers and fast population growth to be adept at ZergRush tactics, but human adaptability since HumansAreAverage is contrasted to the fact that orcs have a pretty steep racial penalty to Intelligence and high strength bonuses, making it extremely hard for them to be anything else than the DumbMuscle.
8th Jul '14 11:25:18 PM CountDorku
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* ''TabletopGame/ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine'': Billy Sovereign is basically Seizhi, the Best Friend, minus [[spoiler:a soul]], and is evil enough that he once impaled Leonardo de Montreal on a railroad spike. Seizhi's Arcs in the ''Glass-Maker's Dragon'' campaign even encourage the inclusion of a villainous counterpart, referred to as the "Walker in Darkness", in order to fall to your Vice and give you the motivation to reject it.

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* ''TabletopGame/ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine'': Billy Sovereign is basically Seizhi, the Best Friend, minus [[spoiler:a soul]], and is evil enough that he once impaled Leonardo de Montreal on a railroad spike. Seizhi's Arcs in the ''Glass-Maker's Dragon'' campaign even encourage the inclusion of a villainous counterpart, referred to as the "Walker in Darkness", in order to fall to your Vice and give you the motivation to reject it.it.
* ''TabletopGame/{{Eberron}}'': the Blood of Vol is basically an evil version of the Undying Court, repackaged for mass consumption. Both involve divine magic without the involvement of Eberron's ambiguously real deities, but the Undying Court seems largely indifferent to the Sovereigns, the Silver Flame and so on, while the Blood of Vol is staunchly {{Nay Theist}}ic. Both have physical immortality via undeath as a tenet, but the Undying Court use positive energy and become the Undying while the Blood of Vol relies heavily on vampirism and lichdom. Both are led by undead elves, but the Undying Court are a council of NeutralGood deathless elders while Vol is NeutralEvil and is referred to as "the Lich-Queen". Indeed, the most Vol-friendly group of elves of Aerenal, the Stillborn, have adopted a practice of alchemically treating themselves to appear undead, despite being fully alive...that was developed by an Elven lineage that is for the most part staunchly loyal to the Court and who have been doing it for a very long time.
4th Jul '14 12:45:27 AM CountDorku
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* In ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'', the Sabbat is the evil counterpart of the Camarilla. Or at least, the more evil counterpart (given that all members of both are vampires).

to:

* In ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'', the Sabbat is the evil counterpart of the Camarilla. Or at least, the more evil counterpart (given that all members of both are vampires).vampires).
* ''TabletopGame/ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine'': Billy Sovereign is basically Seizhi, the Best Friend, minus [[spoiler:a soul]], and is evil enough that he once impaled Leonardo de Montreal on a railroad spike. Seizhi's Arcs in the ''Glass-Maker's Dragon'' campaign even encourage the inclusion of a villainous counterpart, referred to as the "Walker in Darkness", in order to fall to your Vice and give you the motivation to reject it.
22nd Mar '14 8:40:11 PM Nopperabo
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* In ''{{Werewolf The Apocalypse}}'', the Black Spiral Dancers are evil counterparts to the Gaia Garou. After falling to the Wyrm, the Black Spirals retained aspects of Garou culture, such as lunar auspices, the Veil, and a Wyrm version of the Litany.
* In ''VampireTheMasquerade'', the Sabbat is the evil counterpart of the Camarilla. Or at least, the more evil counterpart (given that all members of both are vampires).

to:

* In ''{{Werewolf The Apocalypse}}'', ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'', the Black Spiral Dancers are evil counterparts to the Gaia Garou. After falling to the Wyrm, the Black Spirals retained aspects of Garou culture, such as lunar auspices, the Veil, and a Wyrm version of the Litany.
* In ''VampireTheMasquerade'', ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'', the Sabbat is the evil counterpart of the Camarilla. Or at least, the more evil counterpart (given that all members of both are vampires).
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