History EvilCounterpart / TableTopGames

4th Mar '17 6:53:25 PM Theokal3
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** ''TabletopGame/BeastThePrimordial'' then gives us Heroes, who are basically a KnightTemplar equivalent Hunters with all their worst traits. Its supplement ''Conquering Heroes'' also introduces the Insatiable, who are best-described as just like the Beast, only without a single shred of humanity.
4th Mar '17 6:51:53 PM Theokal3
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** ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheForsaken'': each Pure Tribe can be considered an evil counterpart to a specific Forsaken one; the [[EvilLuddite Predator Kings]] are counterparts to the [[NatureHero Hunters in Darkness]], the [[AristocracyIsEvil Ivory Claws]] to the [[TheLeader Storm Lords]], and the [[ReligionOfEvil Fire-Touched]] to the [[SeekerArchetype Bone Shadows]].

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** ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheForsaken'': each Pure Tribe can be considered an evil counterpart to a specific Forsaken one; the [[EvilLuddite Predator Kings]] are counterparts to the [[NatureHero Hunters in Darkness]], the [[AristocracyIsEvil [[AristocratsAreEvil Ivory Claws]] to the [[TheLeader Storm Lords]], and the [[ReligionOfEvil Fire-Touched]] to the [[SeekerArchetype Bone Shadows]].Shadows]].
** ''TabletopGame/HunterTheVigil'' has [[SlasherMovie Slashers]], humans who just like hunters start hunting... except they target regular humans as much as supernaturals, making them flat-out {{Serial Killer}}s.
4th Mar '17 10:42:11 AM Theokal3
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* The Camarilla and Sabbat of ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' are an aversion; the Sabbat is a BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and the Camarilla is a textbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. The Baali and Setites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HollywoodSatanism / ReligionOfEvil could be.

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* ''TabletopGame/OldWorldOfDarkness'':
**
The Camarilla and Sabbat of ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' are an aversion; aversion, as [[BlackAndGreyMorality both are difficult to classify as good]]; the Sabbat is a BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and the Camarilla is a textbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. The Baali and Setites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HollywoodSatanism / ReligionOfEvil could be.be.
** In ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'', the Black Spiral Dancers are evil counterparts to the Gaia Garou. After falling to the Wyrm, the Black Spirals retained aspects of Garou culture, such as lunar auspices, the Veil, and a Wyrm version of the Litany.
* ''TabletopGame/NewWorldOfDarkness'':
** ''TabletopGame/VampireTheRequiem'' has Belial's Brood, a sect of [[HollywoodSatanism Hollywood Satanist]] vampires who are obsessed with depravation and bringing hell on earth, in contrast with the playable Covenants, who while not exactly nice, are more pragmatic and rational.
** ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheForsaken'': each Pure Tribe can be considered an evil counterpart to a specific Forsaken one; the [[EvilLuddite Predator Kings]] are counterparts to the [[NatureHero Hunters in Darkness]], the [[AristocracyIsEvil Ivory Claws]] to the [[TheLeader Storm Lords]], and the [[ReligionOfEvil Fire-Touched]] to the [[SeekerArchetype Bone Shadows]].



** ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' gives an interesting example in the (sadly now-defunct) Chaos Dwarfs. They're what happened when Dwarfs get infected with Chaos energy. Abandoning the old Dwarf gods and taking up worship of the bull god Hashut, the Chaos Dwarfs are greedy, tyrannical and merciless, driven by a need to subjugate all before them. They have a real Mesopotamian thing going for them as opposed to the very British[=/=]Nordic-flavoured regular Dwarfs.
* In ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'', the Black Spiral Dancers are evil counterparts to the Gaia Garou. After falling to the Wyrm, the Black Spirals retained aspects of Garou culture, such as lunar auspices, the Veil, and a Wyrm version of the Litany.

to:

** ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' gives an interesting example in the (sadly now-defunct) Chaos Dwarfs. They're what happened when Dwarfs get infected with Chaos energy. Abandoning the old Dwarf gods and taking up worship of the bull god Hashut, the Chaos Dwarfs are greedy, tyrannical and merciless, driven by a need to subjugate all before them. They have a real Mesopotamian thing going for them as opposed to the very British[=/=]Nordic-flavoured regular Dwarfs.
* In ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'', the Black Spiral Dancers are evil counterparts to the Gaia Garou. After falling to the Wyrm, the Black Spirals retained aspects of Garou culture, such as lunar auspices, the Veil, and a Wyrm version of the Litany.
Dwarfs.
2nd Feb '17 7:09:13 PM Luppercus
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* ''TabletopGame/ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine'': Billy Sovereign is basically Seizhi, the Best Friend, minus [[spoiler:a soul]], and is evil enough that he once impaled Leonardo de Montreal on a railroad spike. Seizhi's Arcs in the ''Glass-Maker's Dragon'' campaign even encourage the inclusion of a villainous counterpart, referred to as the "Walker in Darkness", in order to fall to your Vice and give you the motivation to reject it.



* ''TabletopGame/ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine'': Billy Sovereign is basically Seizhi, the Best Friend, minus [[spoiler:a soul]], and is evil enough that he once impaled Leonardo de Montreal on a railroad spike. Seizhi's Arcs in the ''Glass-Maker's Dragon'' campaign even encourage the inclusion of a villainous counterpart, referred to as the "Walker in Darkness", in order to fall to your Vice and give you the motivation to reject it.
2nd Feb '17 7:08:24 PM Luppercus
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* Numerous examples in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', although it's simply [[BlackAndGrayMorality eviler counterparts]]. For the most part, Chaos (except for the demons) basically is a giant, AlwaysChaoticEvil version of the Imperium, while the Dark Eldars are [[CaptainObvious darker]] versions of standard Eldar.
** ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' gives an interesting example in the (sadly now-defunct) Chaos Dwarfs. They're what happened when Dwarfs get infected with Chaos energy. Abandoning the old Dwarf gods and taking up worship of the bull god Hashut, the Chaos Dwarfs are greedy, tyrannical and merciless, driven by a need to subjugate all before them. They have a real Mesopotamian thing going for them as opposed to the very British[=/=]Nordic-flavoured regular Dwarfs.
* In ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'', the Black Spiral Dancers are evil counterparts to the Gaia Garou. After falling to the Wyrm, the Black Spirals retained aspects of Garou culture, such as lunar auspices, the Veil, and a Wyrm version of the Litany.
* The Camarilla and Sabbat of ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' are an aversion; the Sabbat is a BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and the Camarilla is a textbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. The Baali and Setites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HollywoodSatanism / ReligionOfEvil could be.
* ''TabletopGame/ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine'': Billy Sovereign is basically Seizhi, the Best Friend, minus [[spoiler:a soul]], and is evil enough that he once impaled Leonardo de Montreal on a railroad spike. Seizhi's Arcs in the ''Glass-Maker's Dragon'' campaign even encourage the inclusion of a villainous counterpart, referred to as the "Walker in Darkness", in order to fall to your Vice and give you the motivation to reject it.
* ''TabletopGame/{{Eberron}}'': the Blood of Vol is basically an evil version of the Undying Court, repackaged for mass consumption. Both involve divine magic without the involvement of Eberron's ambiguously real deities, but the Undying Court seems largely indifferent to the Sovereigns, the Silver Flame and so on, while the Blood of Vol is staunchly {{Nay Theist}}ic. Both have physical immortality via undeath as a tenet, but the Undying Court use positive energy and become the Undying while the Blood of Vol relies heavily on vampirism and lichdom. Both are led by undead elves, but the Undying Court are a council of NeutralGood deathless elders while Vol is NeutralEvil and is referred to as "the Lich-Queen". Indeed, the most Vol-friendly group of elves of Aerenal, the Stillborn, have adopted a practice of alchemically treating themselves to appear undead, despite being fully alive...that was developed by an Elven lineage that is for the most part staunchly loyal to the Court and who have been doing it for a very long time.

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* Numerous examples in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', although it's simply [[BlackAndGrayMorality eviler counterparts]]. For BattleTech can produce these on occassion, but because it tends towards GreyAndGreyMorality, deciding which one is the most part, Chaos (except "good" one is sometimes difficult:
** Sun-Tzu Liao is this
for the demons) basically is a giant, AlwaysChaoticEvil version of the Imperium, while the Dark Eldars are [[CaptainObvious darker]] versions of standard Eldar.
** ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' gives an interesting example in the (sadly now-defunct) Chaos Dwarfs. They're what happened when Dwarfs get infected with Chaos energy. Abandoning the old Dwarf gods and taking up worship of the bull god Hashut, the Chaos Dwarfs are greedy, tyrannical and merciless, driven by a need to subjugate all before them. They have a real Mesopotamian thing going for them as opposed to the very British[=/=]Nordic-flavoured regular Dwarfs.
* In ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'', the Black Spiral Dancers are evil counterparts to the Gaia Garou. After falling to the Wyrm, the Black Spirals retained aspects of Garou culture, such as lunar auspices, the Veil, and a Wyrm version of the Litany.
* The Camarilla and Sabbat of ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' are an aversion; the Sabbat is a BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and the Camarilla is a textbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. The Baali and Setites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HollywoodSatanism / ReligionOfEvil could be.
* ''TabletopGame/ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine'': Billy Sovereign is basically Seizhi, the Best Friend, minus [[spoiler:a soul]], and is evil enough that he once impaled Leonardo de Montreal on a railroad spike. Seizhi's Arcs in the ''Glass-Maker's Dragon'' campaign even encourage the inclusion of a villainous counterpart, referred to as the "Walker in Darkness", in order to fall to your Vice and give you the motivation to reject it.
* ''TabletopGame/{{Eberron}}'': the Blood of Vol is basically an evil version of the Undying Court, repackaged for mass consumption. Both involve divine magic without the involvement of Eberron's ambiguously real deities, but the Undying Court seems largely indifferent to the Sovereigns, the Silver Flame and so on, while the Blood of Vol is staunchly {{Nay Theist}}ic. Both have physical immortality via undeath as a tenet, but the Undying Court use positive energy and become the Undying while the Blood of Vol relies heavily on vampirism and lichdom.
Hanse Davion. Both are led by undead elves, unparalleled [[{{TheChessmaster}} Chessmasters]]. Both ultimately did what they did to improve the quality of life for their people. And they both frequently use the same methods. Both of them made alliances with neighboring powers that primarily benefited themselves. And so forth. It could be argued that Sun-Tzu is more ruthless, being more willing to sacrifice his own people to achieve those ends, but the Undying Court are a council Hanse Davion has been just as willing to sacrifice his people too. And both of NeutralGood deathless elders while Vol them ended up effectively being deified by their people.
** A more accurate example
is NeutralEvil Victor Steiner-Davion with his sister Katherine. Both were children of Hanse Davion, but raised on different worlds. Victor was very military, and is referred tried to as "the Lich-Queen". Indeed, the most Vol-friendly group rule through that kind of elves of Aerenal, the Stillborn, have adopted thinking. Katherine was a practice of alchemically treating political mastermind, gaining power through brinkmanship and guile (and [[MurderIsTheBestSolution murder]]). Both considered themselves to appear undead, despite being fully alive...that was developed by an Elven lineage that is be the true heir of Hanse Davion. Neither had any real respect for the other; Victor saw Katherine as a foppish dilettante, while Katherine saw Victor as a manchild playing with wartoys. That they were responsible for the most part staunchly loyal to the Court and who destructive civil war in Inner Sphere history should not have been doing it for a very long time.surprise to anyone.



* BattleTech can produce these on occassion, but because it tends towards GreyAndGreyMorality, deciding which one is the "good" one is sometimes difficult:
** Sun-Tzu Liao is this for Hanse Davion. Both are unparalleled [[{{TheChessmaster}} Chessmasters]]. Both ultimately did what they did to improve the quality of life for their people. And they both frequently use the same methods. Both of them made alliances with neighboring powers that primarily benefited themselves. And so forth. It could be argued that Sun-Tzu is more ruthless, being more willing to sacrifice his own people to achieve those ends, but Hanse Davion has been just as willing to sacrifice his people too. And both of them ended up effectively being deified by their people.
** A more accurate example is Victor Steiner-Davion with his sister Katherine. Both were children of Hanse Davion, but raised on different worlds. Victor was very military, and tried to rule through that kind of thinking. Katherine was a political mastermind, gaining power through brinkmanship and guile (and [[MurderIsTheBestSolution murder]]). Both considered themselves to be the true heir of Hanse Davion. Neither had any real respect for the other; Victor saw Katherine as a foppish dilettante, while Katherine saw Victor as a manchild playing with wartoys. That they were responsible for the most destructive civil war in Inner Sphere history should not have been a surprise to anyone.

to:

* BattleTech can produce these on occassion, ''TabletopGame/{{Eberron}}'': the Blood of Vol is basically an evil version of the Undying Court, repackaged for mass consumption. Both involve divine magic without the involvement of Eberron's ambiguously real deities, but because it tends towards GreyAndGreyMorality, deciding which one is the "good" one Undying Court seems largely indifferent to the Sovereigns, the Silver Flame and so on, while the Blood of Vol is sometimes difficult:
** Sun-Tzu Liao is this for Hanse Davion.
staunchly {{Nay Theist}}ic. Both have physical immortality via undeath as a tenet, but the Undying Court use positive energy and become the Undying while the Blood of Vol relies heavily on vampirism and lichdom. Both are unparalleled [[{{TheChessmaster}} Chessmasters]]. Both ultimately did what they did to improve led by undead elves, but the quality Undying Court are a council of life for their people. And they both frequently use NeutralGood deathless elders while Vol is NeutralEvil and is referred to as "the Lich-Queen". Indeed, the same methods. Both most Vol-friendly group of them made alliances with neighboring powers that primarily benefited themselves. And so forth. It could be argued that Sun-Tzu is more ruthless, being more willing to sacrifice his own people to achieve those ends, but Hanse Davion has been just as willing to sacrifice his people too. And both elves of them ended up effectively being deified by their people.
** A more accurate example is Victor Steiner-Davion with his sister Katherine. Both were children
Aerenal, the Stillborn, have adopted a practice of Hanse Davion, but raised on different worlds. Victor was very military, and tried to rule through that kind of thinking. Katherine was a political mastermind, gaining power through brinkmanship and guile (and [[MurderIsTheBestSolution murder]]). Both considered alchemically treating themselves to be the true heir of Hanse Davion. Neither had any real respect for the other; Victor saw Katherine as a foppish dilettante, while Katherine saw Victor as a manchild playing with wartoys. That they were responsible appear undead, despite being fully alive...that was developed by an Elven lineage that is for the most destructive civil war in Inner Sphere history should not part staunchly loyal to the Court and who have been doing it for a surprise very long time.
* The Camarilla and Sabbat of ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' are an aversion; the Sabbat is a BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and the Camarilla is a textbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. The Baali and Setites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HollywoodSatanism / ReligionOfEvil could be.
* ''TabletopGame/ChuubosMarvelousWishGrantingEngine'': Billy Sovereign is basically Seizhi, the Best Friend, minus [[spoiler:a soul]], and is evil enough that he once impaled Leonardo de Montreal on a railroad spike. Seizhi's Arcs in the ''Glass-Maker's Dragon'' campaign even encourage the inclusion of a villainous counterpart, referred
to anyone.as the "Walker in Darkness", in order to fall to your Vice and give you the motivation to reject it.
* Numerous examples in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', although it's simply [[BlackAndGrayMorality eviler counterparts]]. For the most part, Chaos (except for the demons) basically is a giant, AlwaysChaoticEvil version of the Imperium, while the Dark Eldars are [[CaptainObvious darker]] versions of standard Eldar.
** ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' gives an interesting example in the (sadly now-defunct) Chaos Dwarfs. They're what happened when Dwarfs get infected with Chaos energy. Abandoning the old Dwarf gods and taking up worship of the bull god Hashut, the Chaos Dwarfs are greedy, tyrannical and merciless, driven by a need to subjugate all before them. They have a real Mesopotamian thing going for them as opposed to the very British[=/=]Nordic-flavoured regular Dwarfs.
* In ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'', the Black Spiral Dancers are evil counterparts to the Gaia Garou. After falling to the Wyrm, the Black Spirals retained aspects of Garou culture, such as lunar auspices, the Veil, and a Wyrm version of the Litany.
12th Oct '16 11:13:55 AM narm00
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* The Camarilla and Sabbat of ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' are an aversion; the Sabbat is a BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and the Camarilla is a textbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. The Baali and Setites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HolywoodSatanism / ReligionOfEvil could be.

to:

* The Camarilla and Sabbat of ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' are an aversion; the Sabbat is a BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and the Camarilla is a textbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. The Baali and Setites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HolywoodSatanism HollywoodSatanism / ReligionOfEvil could be.
12th Oct '16 11:06:24 AM narm00
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* Numerous examples in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', although it simply [[BlackAndGrayMorality eviler counterparts]]. For the most part, Chaos (except for the demons) basically is a giant, AlwaysChaoticEvil version of the Imperium, while the Dark Eldars are [[CaptainObvious darker]] versions of standard Eldar.

to:

* Numerous examples in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', although it it's simply [[BlackAndGrayMorality eviler counterparts]]. For the most part, Chaos (except for the demons) basically is a giant, AlwaysChaoticEvil version of the Imperium, while the Dark Eldars are [[CaptainObvious darker]] versions of standard Eldar.



* Averted in ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'': Sabbath are BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and Camarilla is a texbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. Baali and Settites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HoolywoodSatanism/ReligionOfEvil could be.

to:

* Averted in ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'': Sabbath The Camarilla and Sabbat of ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'' are an aversion; the Sabbat is a BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and the Camarilla is a texbook textbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. The Baali and Settites, Setites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HoolywoodSatanism/ReligionOfEvil HolywoodSatanism / ReligionOfEvil could be.
28th Jun '16 6:40:59 AM thatmadork
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** ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}'' gives an interesting example in the (sadly now-defunct) Chaos Dwarfs. They're what happened when Dwarfs get infected with Chaos energy. Abandoning the old Dwarf gods and taking up worship of the bull god Hashut, the Chaos Dwarfs are greedy, tyrannical and merciless, driven by a need to subjugate all before them. They have a real Mesopotamian thing going for them as opposed to the very British[=/=]Nordic-flavoured regular Dwarfs.
5th Mar '16 12:07:18 PM Unferth
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* In ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'', the Sabbat is the evil counterpart of the Camarilla. Or at least, the more evil counterpart (given that all members of both are vampires).

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* In ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'', the Sabbat is the evil counterpart of the Camarilla. Or at least, the more evil counterpart (given that all members of both Averted in ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'': Sabbath are vampires).BloodKnight and KnightTemplar totalitarian sect and Camarilla is a texbook DeadlyDecadentCourt with constant scheming and intriguing. Baali and Settites, however, are as monstrous as a crazy bunch of vampires practicing HoolywoodSatanism/ReligionOfEvil could be.



** A more accurate example is Victor Steiner-Davion with his sister Katherine. Both were children of Hanse Davion, but raised on different worlds. Victor was very military, and tried to rule through that kind of thinking. Katherine was a political mastermind, gaining power through brinkmanship and guile (and [[MurderIsTheBestSolution murder]]). Both considered themselves to be the true heir of Hanse Davion. Neither had any real respect for the other; Victor saw Katherine as a foppish dilettante, while Katherine saw Victor as a manchild playing with wartoys. That they were responsible for the most destructive civil war in Inner Sphere history should not have been a surprise to anyone.

to:

** A more accurate example is Victor Steiner-Davion with his sister Katherine. Both were children of Hanse Davion, but raised on different worlds. Victor was very military, and tried to rule through that kind of thinking. Katherine was a political mastermind, gaining power through brinkmanship and guile (and [[MurderIsTheBestSolution murder]]). Both considered themselves to be the true heir of Hanse Davion. Neither had any real respect for the other; Victor saw Katherine as a foppish dilettante, while Katherine saw Victor as a manchild playing with wartoys. That they were responsible for the most destructive civil war in Inner Sphere history should not have been a surprise to anyone.
12th Feb '16 12:09:37 AM CountDorku
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** Gnomes and Kobolds: Both are skilled with technical skills (Gnomes are perpetually inventing new things, kobolds are excellent with traps), but gnomes are sturdy while kobolds are squishy.

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** Gnomes and Kobolds: Both are skilled with technical skills (Gnomes are perpetually inventing new things, kobolds are excellent with traps), but gnomes are sturdy and tend chaotic while kobolds are squishy.squishy and staunchly LawfulEvil. Their gods, Garl Glittergold and Kurtulmak, are thus evil counterparts to each other as well.
** Among gods, [[LawfulEvil Hextor, God of Tyranny]] is the counterpart to [[LawfulGood Heironeous, God of Valour]], to the point where both of them have a mailed fist holding some kind of ranged weapon for a symbol: Heironeous has a thunderbolt, Hextor three arrows. In the lore, they're [[CainAndAbel half-brothers]].
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