History DethroningMoment / SuperSmashBros

** [=Gemidori=]: And, it gets even worse in ''Ultimate'': while most characters retain their ''SSB4'' Guidances, revamped ones get wholly new ones. Hell, even Piranha Plant, a bonus character not part of the Fighters Pass, got its own Guidance, and yet still to this day they have confirmed that [=DLC=] characters will have no special conversations. Admittedly, Piranha Plant's was recorded the same time as the others, but what was stopping the actors from coming back and recording the [=DLC=] characters in advance at any later time?

* [=ImSpidey2=]: While I absolutely love Ridley in ''Ultimate'' and enjoy how even his more sadistic personality in the [[Manga/{{Metroid}} manga]] was added in, one thing that I can fault is his Palutena's Guidance. To start, there isn't much info on how to fight him, and is more backstory on the character himself. Which is questionable, but given that Ridley is one of my favorite Nintendo villains, I will take it. Palutena lists off the various forms that Ridley has taken[[note]][[VideoGame/MetroidSamusReturns excluding Proteus Ridley]], though that's okay since ''Samus Returns'' came out very late in the game's development[[/note]]...the problem is that she lists them as separate Ridleys. Not forms of Ridley, but [[LegacyCharacter apparently completely different space dragons that just so happen to be called Ridley.]] No. Hell no. While I do understand that ''Metroid'' mostly utilizes ShowDontTell for its story, it's literally outright stated in several games that Ridley has always just been the one Ridley up until ''VideoGame/SuperMetroid'', where he finally actually dies. And then he gets cloned in ''VideoGame/MetroidOtherM'', and then technically cloned again by an X-Parasite in ''VideoGame/MetroidFusion''. There we go, I just cleared up the continuity hole that this thing made, and I didn't even need to look up any details while reading this. While I still love ''Ultimate'' and is still my favorite ''Smash Bros.'' game of all time, which is helped by Ridley being handled gloriously in the game, this Guidance goes to show that even now, he still isn't really portrayed perfectly.

** [=ImSpidey2=]: This gets a little bit worse in ''Ultimate'': guess what dialogue has been reused for the DLC characters? Yes. [[HereWeGoAgain That 'alternate dimension' one.]] The exact same clip, with no real revision either, and still for no particular reason either. At least Joker did get stage variations and his own Spirit Board.

* [=ImSpidey2=]: While I absolutely love Ridley in ''Ultimate'' and enjoy how even his more sadistic personality in the [[Manga/{{Metroid}} manga]] was added in, one thing that I can fault is his Palutena's Guidance. To start, there isn't much info on how to fight him, and is more backstory on the character himself. Which is questionable, but given that Ridley is one of my favorite Nintendo villains, I will take it. Palutena lists off the various forms that Ridley has taken[[note]][[VideoGame/MetroidSamusReturns excluding Proteus Ridley]], though that's okay since ''Samus Returns'' came out very late in the game's development[[/note]]...the problem is that she lists them as separate Ridleys. Not forms of Ridley, but [[LegacyCharacter apparently completely different space dragons that just so happen to be called Ridley.]] Uh...hell no. While I do understand that ''Metroid'' is more ShowNotTell in story, it's literally outright stated in several games that Ridley has always just been the one Ridley up until ''VideoGame/SuperMetroid'', where he finally actually dies. And then he gets cloned in ''VideoGame/MetroidOtherM'', and then technically cloned again by an X-Parasite in ''VideoGame/MetroidFusion''. There we go, I just cleared up the continuity hole that this thing made, and I didn't even need to look up any details while reading this. While I still love ''Ultimate'' and is still my favorite ''Smash Bros.'' game of all time, which is helped by Ridley being handled gloriously in the game, this Guidance goes to show that even now, he still isn't really portrayed perfectly.

* [=RickTommy=]: Why, just ''why'', are the N64/Gamecube ''Mario'' games underrepresented music-wise in ''Smash 4'' and ''Ultimate''? There's still nothing from ''Mario Party 1-7'', ''Mario Golf'', or ''Mario Tennis'', and ''Mario Kart 64'' and ''Double Dash'' are still stuck with just one track apiece. As for ''Mario 64'' and ''Sunshine'', what do they get? Nothing but alternate versions of the two tracks apiece that they already have. As for other franchises, well, give [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/User:RickTommy/Music_that_must_be_in_Smash_games this page]] a look.
* [=FlamingMercury5=]: Once Echo Fighters were introduced, my immediate thought was "Proto Man would make a perfect echo for Mega Man. He's Mega Man's prototype and older brother who has been playable in many games before, so it would work very well." However, my dreams were crushed when I saw that they added Proto Man and Bass to Megaman's Final Smash for no reason at all other than to deconfirm them as Echo Fighters. It just feels like a textbook case of TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter.

* [=FlamingMercury5=]: Once Echo Fighters were introduced, my immediate thought was "Proto Man would make a perfect echo for Mega Man. He's Mega Man's prototype and older brother who has been playable in many games before, so it would work very well." However, my dreams were crushed when I saw that they added Proto Man and Bass to Megaman's Final Smash ''for no reason at all'' other than to deconfirm them as Echo Fighters. It just feels like a textbook case of TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter.

* [=FlamingMercury5=]: Once Echo Fighters were introduced, my immediate thought was "Proto Man would make a perfect echo for Mega Man!" However, my dreams were crushed when I saw that they added Proto Man and Bass to Megaman's Final Smash ''for no reason at all''. It just feels like a textbook case of TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter.

* {{Tropers/Pgj1997}}: When Snake was announced for ''Ultimate'' people were expecting new Codec conversations for the new characters. We were disappointed to say the least. The Easter egg still works, but only if you're fighting a character that was in ''Brawl'' already. And there aren't any changes to them whatsoever. The worst case of this is Sonic's, where Otacon still says "Do you have any idea how excited people are that he's here in Brawl?" Call it a nitpick, but it bothers me to no end. I used to be part of the ''Brawl'' modding community back when it was active, and I know how the Codecs are programmed. Unlike Palutena's Guidance, each line of dialogue is it's own separate audio file, meaning that all they had to do was delete that one file, and it wouldn't be jarring. I wouldn't be complaining if Palutena's Guidance wasn't given better treatment. They updated all the Palutena's Guidances for characters that have changed since Smash 4 (Crom no longer appears if you're fighting Lucina, and Link has a new one entirely) and wrote completely new ones for everyone else, including the DLC characters for Smash 4 where they previously didn't have unique Guidances. Don't get me wrong, I like Palutena's Guidance as much as Codecs, but for a series that normally pays a lot of attention to detail, this is just a lazy omission. They might get patched in later ([[WordOfGod David Hayter stated]] that he wasn't called in to record more, but he'd love to) but I doubt it.

* {{Tropers/Pgj1997}}: When Snake was announced for ''Ultimate'' people were expecting new Codec conversations for the new characters. We were disappointed to say the least. The Easter egg still works, but only if you're fighting a character that was in ''Brawl'' already. And there aren't any changes to them whatsoever. The worst case of this is Sonic's, where Otacon still says "Do you know how excited people are that he's here in Brawl?" Call it a nitpick, but it bothers me to no end. I used to be part of the ''Brawl'' modding community back when it was active, and I know how the Codecs are programmed. Unlike Palutena's Guidance, each line of dialogue is it's own separate audio file, meaning that all they had to do was delete that one file, and it wouldn't be jarring. I wouldn't be complaining if Palutena's Guidance wasn't given better treatment. They updated all the Palutena's Guidances for characters that have changed since Smash 4 (Crom no longer appears if you're fighting Lucina, and Link has a new one entirely) and wrote completely new ones for everyone else, including the DLC characters for Smash 4 where they previously didn't have unique Guidances. Don't get me wrong, I like Palutena's Guidance as much as Codecs, but for a series that normally pays a lot of attention to detail, this is just a lazy omission. They might get patched in later ([[WordOfGod David Hayter stated]] that he wasn't called in to record more, but he'd love to) but I doubt it.

* Skapokon: OK, call me a nitpicky guy, but it really annoys me when Trophy Descriptions in Smash get things wrong, specially the origin games of the characters. From minor mistakes such as saying that Meta Knight comes from Videogame/KirbySuperStar instead of Videogame/KirbysAdventure to huge mistakes such as how the main Mario cast [[Videogame/PaperMario in Paper form]] debuted in Videogame/SuperPaperMario according to Brawl, ignoring the 2 games that came before it. But the biggest blunder and the DMoS for me is how {{Videogame/Rayman}} (and his friend Globox) debuted in Rayman Origins. That's right, they completely ignored the entire Rayman franchise just so they can promote both Rayman Origins and Legends via the trophies. And even that doesn't make sense because Rayman 1 and 2 are on the 3DS (the former via DSiWare, the later via the port Rayman 3D), which makes me wonder if they made this mistake on purpose or whoever was in charge of the trophies legitimately thought that Rayman and Globox debuted in Origins.

* Tropers/{{ilovedededeAGAIN}}: The worst scene in this game is when Luigi gets turned into a trophy. King Dedede, my trademark favorite character in video games (hence my username) turns Luigi into a trophy. Wario then comes along (with trophies of Ness and Peach or Zelda) in his vehicle and plans on taking the Luigi trophy. But then guess what happens: a squad of Waddle Dees come and attack Wario (WTH?) and King Dedede manages to steal Wario's vehicle. King Dedede may be a video game villain, but he's not THAT bad for a villain (compared to Bowser or Ganondorf), so there was no reason the writers of the Subspace Emissary cutscenes had to turn him into a car robber (at least he gets better close to the ending). The worst part, though, is that Wario never gets his car back. The whole plot of the Subspace Emissary would probably change dramatically if King Dedede stole Bowser's car (yes, he has one too) instead, because back in an earlier level he turned Donkey Kong into a trophy. It would actually be better than stealing Wario's car, since Wario looks like a weak fighter, compared to Dedede himself and his horde of Waddle Dees (don't forget his hammer). Wow, Sakurai. You really did it this time.

* Tropers/{{lazyfox}}: Now, I loved ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosBrawl''. I thought Subspace Emissary was good considering that no characters talked throughout the entire thing (except Snake's one introduction line). However, there's one thing that really, really irritated me: Sonic getting the shaft when it came to story in Subspace Emissary. Now, whether you love or hate him (or are just sick of him), there's no denying that he's the most widely anticipated character to appear in SSB. And all you give him is a single BigDamnHeroes moment with [[AssPull absolutely no explanation?]] [[WhatTheHellHero What the hell, Sakurai?]] Where did he come from? What was he doing? How did he get there? Why was he there? One of the things I looked forward to the most was seeing him interact with the Nintendo characters. Hell, it would've awesome if [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot it was Sonic that Mario had to travel with, forcing two of gaming's biggest rivals to work together and maybe overcome their bitter rivalry throughout the course of the story.]] But nope. Fans played through hours of story, going -through a painful and tedious maze, and what was the payoff? A single, short moment with no context. To this day, it still [[WesternAnimation/FamilyGuy grinds my gears.]]

* SenorCornholio: My dethroning moment has to be from, once again, the Palutena's Guidance conversations. Now, I want to go on record saying that, even though they're no codecs, the guidance conversations were entertaining enough for me personally. Some were good, some were downright hilarious, some were pretty flawed, and the DLC characters...[[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter get none of that]]. I'd understand that they probably didn't want to bring in Pit, Palutena, or Viridi's voice actors just for one or two snippets of dialogue, but that excuse goes straight out the window with Bayonetta's trailer. Here, we see Pit and Palutena talking about Bayonetta like this was one of their guidance conversations, and like that I was excited...only to find out when I got her that it's still the same damn "alternate dimension" dialogue we've seen before Bayonetta's inclusion. In other words, [[NeverTrustATrailer they lied]]. Okay. So let me get this straight: you can't bring Antony Del Rio, Brandy Kopp, and Hynden Walch into the studio for seven new DLC characters, but you can bring two of them in to voice for one stinking trailer? I can handle Tabuu's sudden appearance in Subspace. I can handle the SpotlightStealingSquad status of the Kirby characters and the Kid Icarus characters. I can handle some of the weaker guidance conversations, including further cementing Chrom's ButtMonkey status. But you can't possibly convince me that them implying they'll give us new conversations, good or otherwise, and then not delivering on that is an okay thing to do. I couldn't possibly be more insulted if freaking Cat Mario got in. At least some fans cared enough to give us [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdWFcaoJdjM these]] [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8lOKXXPzkQ videos]]. Kinda sad that the fans cared more about this than Creator/MasahiroSakurai did...

* Tropers/{{Midna}}: On the subject of trophies screwing up debuts, the PAL version of ''Super Smash Bros. for Wii U'' identifying [[VideoGame/PanelDePon Lip's Stick]] as originating from ''[[DolledUpInstallment Tetris]] [[{{Macekre}} Attack]]''. As someone who really likes the universe of the ''Panel de Pon'' series and is desperately waiting for the series to make a comeback, this felt like a huge slap in the face after what was then seven years of no acknowledgement. I wasn't fond of Nintendo of Europe's relatively droll localization style to begin with, but this cemented it. At least the American version doesn't have this mistake.

* SenorCornholio: My dethroning moment has to be from, once again, the Palutena's Guidance conversations. Now, I want to go on record saying that, even though they're no codecs, the guidance conversations were entertaining enough for me personally. Some were good, some were downright hilarious, some were pretty flawed, and the DLC characters...[[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter get none of that]]. I'd understand that they probably didn't want to bring in Pit, Palutena, or Viridi's voice actors just for one or two snippets of dialogue, but that excuse goes straight out the window with Bayonetta's trailer. Here, we see Pit and Palutena talking about Bayonetta like this was one of their guidance conversations, and like that I was excited...only to find out when I got her that it's still the same damn "alternate dimension" dialogue we've seen before Bayonetta's inclusion. In other words, [[NeverTrustATrailer they lied]]. Okay. So let me get this straight: you can't bring Antony Del Rio, Brandy Kopp, and Hynden Walch into the studio for seven new DLC characters, but you can bring two of them in to voice for one stinking trailer? I can handle Tabuu's sudden appearance in Subspace. I can handle the SpotlightStealingSquad status of the Kirby characters and the Kid Icarus characters. I can handle some of the weaker guidance conversations, including further cementing Chrom's ButtMonkey status. But you can't possibly convince me that them implying they'll give us new conversations, good or otherwise, and then not delivering on that is an okay thing to do. I couldn't possibly be more insulted if freaking Cat Mario got in. At least some fans cared enough to give us [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdWFcaoJdjM these]] [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8lOKXXPzkQ videos]]. Kinda sad that the fans cared more about this than the creators...

* SenorCornholio: My dethroning moment has to be from, once again, the Palutena's Guidance conversations. Now, I want to go on record saying that, even though they're no codecs, the guidance conversations were entertaining enough for me personally. Some were good, some were downright hilarious, some were pretty flawed, and the DLC characters...[[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter get none of that]]. I'd understand that they probably didn't want to bring in Pit, Palutena, or Viridi's voice actors just for one or two snippets of dialogue, but that excuse goes straight out the window with Bayonetta's trailer. Here, we see Pit and Palutena talking about Bayonetta like this was one of their guidance conversations, and like that I was excited...only to find out when I got her that it's still the same damn "alternate dimension" dialogue we've seen before Bayonetta's inclusion. In other words, [[NeverTrustATrailer they lied]]. Okay. So let me get this straight: you can't bring Antony Del Rio, Brandy Kopp, and Hynden Walch into the studio for seven new DLC characters, but you can bring two of them in to voice for one stinking trailer? I can handle Tabuu's sudden appearance in Subspace. I can handle the SpotlightStealingSquad status of the Kirby characters and the Kid Icarus characters. I can handle some of the weaker guidance conversations, including further cementing Chrom's ButtMonkey status. But you can't possibly convince me that them implying they'll give us new conversations, good or otherwise, and then not delivering on that is an okay thing to do. I couldn't possibly be more insulted if freaking Cat Mario got in. At least some fans cared enough to give us [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdWFcaoJdjM these]] [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8lOKXXPzkQ videos]].

* SenorCornholio: My dethroning moment has to be from, once again, the Palutena's Guidance conversations. Some are good, some are downright hilarious, some are pretty flawed, and the DLC characters...[[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter get none of that]]. I'd understand that they probably didn't want to bring in Pit, Palutena, or Viridi's voice actors just for one or two snippets of dialogue, but that excuse goes straight out the window with Bayonetta's trailer. Here, we see Pit and Palutena talking about Bayonetta like this was one of their guidance conversations, and like that I was excited...only to find out when I got her that it's still the same damn "alternate dimension" dialogue we've seen before Bayonetta's inclusion. In other words, [[NeverTrustATrailer they lied]]. Okay. So let me get this straight: you can't bring Antony Del Rio, Brandy Kopp, and Hynden Walch into the studio for seven new DLC characters, but you can bring two of them in to voice for one stinking trailer? I can handle Tabuu's sudden appearance in Subspace. I can handle the SpotlightStealingSquad status of the Kirby characters and the Kid Icarus characters. I can handle some of the weaker guidance conversations, including further cementing Chrom's ButtMonkey status. But you can't possibly convince me that them implying they'll give us new conversations, good or otherwise, and then not delivering on that is an okay thing to do. I couldn't possibly be more insulted if freaking Cat Mario got in.

* Tropers/{{IthoughtyouwereLuigi}} The thing that I really hated about the story in Brawl was how confusing it was, the only time I could get what was going on was at the beginning. It especially got confusing by the end where none of the previously established villains were even the main villain,not even Master Hand was the main villain! Instead we get Tabuu, who not only makes no sense, but also broke the already well established "just a kid playing with his toys" theme, and that is what ultimately made me mad.

'''''"SAKURAAAIIIII!!!"''''' is what you would be saying when ''those'' [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck moments]] pop up in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros''. Given its UnpleasableFanbase, this isn't surprising.

* Tropers/{{IthoughtyouwereLuigi}} The thing that I really hated about the story in Brawl was how confusing it was, the only time I could get what was going on was at the beginning. It especially got confusing by the end where none of the previously established villains were even the main villain,not even Master Hand was the main villain!Instead we get Tabuu, who not only makes no sense, but also broke the already well established "just a kid playing with his toys" theme, and that is what ultimately made me mad.
* Tropers/{{Cookieman}}: Subspace related, but something that really bothers me to this day is when Pit/Mario and Yoshi/Link join teams? When Mario/Link sees the other team defeat the opposing princess, they attack them ... not too bad, but why the heck would Mario and Yoshi not acknowledge each other and probably explain that it's a misunderstanding. At least there's a scene later on in the game where Mario actually rides on Yoshi.

* SenorCornholio: My dethroning moment has to be from, once again, the Palutena's Guidance conversations. Some are good, some are downright hilarious, some are pretty flawed, and the DLC characters...[[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter get none of that]]. I'd understand that they probably didn't want to bring in Pit, Palutena, or Viridi's voice actors just for one or two snippets of dialogue, but that excuse goes straight out the window with Bayonetta's trailer. Here, we see Pit and Palutena talking about Bayonetta like this was one of their guidance conversations, and like that I was excited...only to find out when I got her that it's still the same damn "alternate dimension" dialogue we've seen before Bayonetta's inclusion. In other words, [[NeverTrustATrailer they lied]]. Okay. So let me get this straight: you can't bring Antony Del Rio, Brandy Kopp, and Hynden Walch into the studio for seven new DLC characters, but you can bring two of them in to voice for one stinking trailer? I can handle Tabuu's sudden appearance in Subspace. I can handle the SpotlightStealingSquad status of the Kirby characters and more recently the Kid Icarus characters. I can handle some of the weaker guidance conversations, including further cementing Chrom's ButtMonkey status. But you can't possibly convince me that them implying they'll give us new conversations, good or otherwise, and then not delivering on that is an okay thing to do. I couldn't possibly be more insulted if freaking Cat Mario got in.

* SenorCornholio: My dethroning moment has to be from, once again, the Palutena's Guidance conversations. Some are good, some are downright hilarious, some are pretty flawed, and the DLC characters...[[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter get none of that]]. I'd understand that they probably didn't want to bring in Pit, Palutena, or Viridi's voice actors just for one or two snippets of dialogue, but that excuse goes straight out the window with Bayonetta's trailer. Here, we see Pit and Palutena talking about Bayonetta like this was one of their guidance conversations, and like that I was excited...only to find out when I got her that it's still the same damn "alternate dimension" dialogue we've seen before Bayonetta's inclusion. In other words, [[NeverTrustATrailer they lied]]. Okay. So let me get this straight: you can't bring Antony Del Rio, Brandy Kopp, and Hynden Walch into the studio for seven new DLC characters, but you can bring two of them in to voice for one stinking trailer? I can handle Tabuu's sudden appearance in Subspace. I can handle the SpotlightStealingSquad status of the Kirby characters and more recently the Kid Icarus characters. I can handle some of the weaker guidance conversations, including further cementing Chrom's ButtMonkey status. But you can't possibly convince me that implying you'll give us new conversations, good or otherwise, and then not delivering on that is an okay thing to do. I couldn't possibly be more insulted if they actually did include [[MemeticMutation Dark Classic Pit]] into the game.

* SenorCornholio: My dethroning moment has to be from, once again, the Palutena's Guidance conversations. Some are good, some are downright hilarious, some are pretty flawed, and the DLC characters...[[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter get none of that]]. I'd understand that they probably didn't want to bring in Pit, Palutena, or Viridi's voice actors just for one or two snippets of dialogue, but that excuse goes straight out the window with Bayonetta's trailer. Here, we see Pit and Palutena talking about Bayonetta like this was one of their guidance conversations, and like that I was excited...only to find out when I got her that it's still the same damn "alternate dimension" dialogue we've seen before Bayonetta's inclusion. In other words, [[NeverTrustATrailer they lied]]. Okay. So let me get this straight: you can't bring Antony Del Rio, Brandy Kopp, and Hynden Walch into the studio for seven new DLC characters, but you can bring two of them in to voice for one stinking trailer? I can handle Tabuu's sudden appearance in Subspace. I can handle the SpotlightStealingSquad status of the Kirby characters and more recently the Kid Icarus characters. I can handle some of the weaker guidance conversations, including further cementing Chrom's ButtMonkey status. But you can't possibly convince me that implying you'll give us new conversations, good or otherwise, and then not delivering on that is an okay thing to do. I couldn't possibly be more insulted if they actually did include [[MemeticMutation Classic Dark Pit]] into the game.

* SenorCornholio: My dethroning moment has to be from, once again, the Palutena's Guidance conversations. Some are good, some are downright hilarious, some are pretty flawed, and the DLC characters...[[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter get none of that]]. I'd understand that they probably didn't want to bring in Pit, Palutena, or Viridi's voice actors just for one or two snippets of dialogue, but that excuse goes straight out the window with Bayonetta's trailer. Here, we see Pit and Palutena talking about Bayonetta like this was one of their guidance conversations, and like that I was excited...only to find out when I got her that it's still the same damn "alternate dimension" dialogue we've seen before Bayonetta's inclusion. In other words, [[NeverTrustATrailer they lied]]. Okay. So let me get this straight: you can't bring Antony Del Rio, Brandy Kopp, and Hynden Walch into the studio for seven new DLC characters, but you can bring two of them in to voice for one stinking trailer? I can handle Tabuu's sudden appearance in Subspace. I can handle the SpotlightStealingSquad status of the Kirby characters and more recently the Kid Icarus characters. I can handle some of the weaker guidance conversations, including further cementing Chrom's ButtMonkey status. But you can't possibly convince me that implying you'll give us new conversations, good or otherwise, and then not delivering on that is an okay thing to do. I couldn't possibly be more insulted if they actually did include [[MemeticMutation Toon Dark Pit]] into the game.